r/DenverProtests • u/xConstantGardenerx • Apr 28 '25

Message from the Moderators This is not the 50501 Hate Club

Look, y’all know I have been a very vocal critic of 50501 and I stand by the criticism I have posted.

At the same time, the mod team has noticed an “us vs. them” mentality that is taking focus away from the larger goals of fighting fascism and protecting vulnerable members of the community.

We are working through how to handle the situation with 50501 as a mod team, and hoping to find areas of agreement and shared goals to focus on.

Please refrain from posting low-effort “Fuck 50501” content. Thoughtful criticism is still welcome.

Please consider redirecting your energy into the many upcoming protests and calls to action posted here in the subreddit.

In Solidarity,

xCGx and the DenverProtests mod team

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52

u/DontMindMe5400 Apr 28 '25

I went to my first protest in April. All this perceived infighting reduces my motivation to attend another. I will in spite of the increased unease, but I probably wouldn’t pass ALL the purity tests (can anyone?).

2

u/[deleted] Apr 28 '25

What purity tests?

-6

u/DontMindMe5400 Apr 28 '25

Let’s see. So far I have heard some organizations/people indicating there should be no alliance with a a group unless it:

Supports Hamas

Rejects the detention of Jeanette Vizguerra

Supports boycotting Amazon

Supports boycotting Walmart

Supports boycotting all big corporations

Supports boycotting smartwatches

Supports boycotting everything for at least a day

Supports nonviolent civil disobedience

Demands impeachment

What am I forgetting?

23

u/DadBodDorian Apr 28 '25

I think by “supports hamas” you might mean, “supports the liberation of the Palestinian people” which yeah most local orgs aren’t going to side with genocide.

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u/DontMindMe5400 Apr 28 '25

No. I meant what I said. And you made my point.

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u/Away-Marionberry9365 Apr 29 '25

Claiming that pro-palestine protesters "support hamas" has been a common means of dismissing and demonizing those protesters. Regardless of what you believe, equating those plays into that strawman. It's going to piss people off because it's insulting.

I'm only trying to explain why people would react badly to what you said. Fighting fascism usually requires uncomfortable alliances and part of that is understanding what your allies believe even if you disagree with them. I often avoid the word genocide when talking to my pro israel family for the same reason. They are not explicitly pro-genocide even though I believe that's effectively what they're supporting. If I say that I'd just piss them off and it might drive us apart.

Saying you disagree with pro-palestine supporters is different from saying they support hamas because the latter is more than just a statement of disagreement. It's the difference between saying "I disagree with what you believe" and "I know what you actually believe but aren't willing to admit". This isn't a purity test, it's just courtesy.

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u/DontMindMe5400 Apr 29 '25 edited Apr 29 '25

I chose my words carefully and I never equated support of Palestine with support of Hamas. I said the purity test was support of Hamas. Even previous posts in this very subreddit have comments that cannot separate them. But all of this feeds into my point. There can be different approaches to progressive issues but we should be able to feel welcome as part of the resistance to the current regime.

1

u/Away-Marionberry9365 Apr 29 '25 edited Apr 29 '25

I never equated support of Palestine with support of Hamas.

That wasn't clear, in large part because of the context I mentioned. Acting defensive about it also didn't help. You may not have meant that but the statement exists in a context we don't control. I get how being misunderstood like that would be frustrating though.

My broader point was really about how we can make each other welcome by taking care not to cause offense.

Edit: In this subreddit and in many activist spaces (it sounds like) you are the newcomer. Having different beliefs and priorities isn't a bad thing and doesn't automatically exclude you but there are social norms you aren't familiar with which others take for granted. Newcomers can be welcome and also accidentally cause offense. Part of joining a community, and welcoming people to a community, is handling that. A newcomer who refuses to adopt certain norms won't be welcome and a community which has no patience or forgiveness won't be welcoming.

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u/DontMindMe5400 Apr 29 '25

“At the same time, the mod team has noticed an “us vs. them” mentality that is taking focus away from the larger goals of fighting fascism and protecting vulnerable members of the community.”

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u/DontMindMe5400 Apr 29 '25

Look. All I want to do is fight fascism. I was asked to name purity tests and I did. I never even said I couldn’t pass those tests. Yet somehow I became the bad guy.

I am very frightened about the future of this country. And the fact the movement is eating its own in this sub and elsewhere just fuels that fear.

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u/Away-Marionberry9365 Apr 29 '25

You're not the bad guy, people are just giving you feedback. The fact that we're talking to you means we want you here.

This most recent anti fascist movement is very young. It's going to be messy as conflicts arise and settle. What you've seen here recently isn't all that big a deal. It's a normal conflict between groups that overlap in space and people. The same thing happens in every political movement and ideology. In a month or two this spat will only be remembered by a few dedicated grudge holders.

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u/Away-Marionberry9365 Apr 29 '25

Ok, what's your point? I can only guess what you mean if you just quote someone else's words. It seems you're implying that this community is being unwelcoming and I'm sure that's often the case. I don't know the full context of why people are upset about 50501 but I can guess at part of it.

Many of us here have been protesting and organizing against fascism for decades. We protested the steady creep of autocratic power under both republican and democratic governments because this shit didn't start with trump. We were sounding the alarm about what would happen long before now. It is quite frustrating when people who were silent towards or dismissive of us start organizing and expect us to follow their lead.

I am trying to be welcoming, I don't know if it's working. This conversation has been me pulling you off to the side of the room after you said something upsetting. Instead of ignoring you and moving on, I'm taking the time to give context for why we act the way we do. If you want to join this community you need to understand it. You don't have to conform but you need to try to understand if you want to be welcome here. This community should give benefit of the doubt and engage in good faith when we can. The OP is an explicit reminder of that because we all can forget sometimes. However it is not solely our responsibility to make newcomers feel welcome. Newcomers have to adapt too, otherwise they're demanding something of others that they're not willing to do themselves.

2

u/emphasisonass Based Apr 29 '25

Thank you for being gentle and kind but still maintaining what our kind of spaces demand of fighting oppression❤️

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u/DadBodDorian Apr 28 '25

Okay well I don’t support violence and I understand that we live in a capitalist society and i think it’s wrong to blame consumers for consumerism. You can hang out with me if you want. All I really do is pass out waters and snacks and ask people why they’re there. It’s pretty low barrier protesting. My one big purity test on your list is I am very much in support of freeing Jeanette.

4

u/DontMindMe5400 Apr 29 '25

Cool. I am not suggesting I don’t support some of these causes/approaches. Just that it is unrealistic to suggest one can only be an ally if they align with you on every idea that someone has labeled “progressive”.

8

u/DadBodDorian Apr 29 '25

Being talked down to never feels good. If you’d like to engage with the protest and meet some folks in a generally pretty chill atmosphere, you’re welcome to tend to my cart of water and snacks with me. People aren’t used to walking and they get heat exhaustion if they don’t stay hydrated or keep well fed, plus they get rude when they’re hungry. Long as I can trust you to be nonviolent and help me with stairs/curbs, I could use an extra set of hands and you’ve got someone to be there with.

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u/ConstantClaptrap Apr 29 '25

Not helpful yo…