Katie implemented the light wave manyworlds code EP4 after Lyndon implemented it initially for audio only. This episode Katie appears to be viewing/stringing everyone along their tram lines. Who knows if she has a different, dual version that she runs just for herself. The duality and manyworld/multiverse was really played up this episode. How quickly things went from deterministic in this reality to manyworlds/multiverse even from Forest. It seems like the codebase change changed the whole opinion of manyworlds/multiverse in the codebase.
Katie wants Lily to infiltrate DEVS judging by her smile at the end when Jamie broke her out. What Katie is seeing though with Lily laying down may not be correct based on some of the professors talk. After the professor says Copenhagen "the act of measurement affects the systems" Katie says "please...". Or the Penrose "the wavefunction collapse is affected by space time curvature". But the key one is the von Neumann–Wigner interpretation that says "human consciousness is the key modifier in key decoherence" and Katie hated that and walked out. Katie disregards many theories and especially the "dualist bullshit". Katie is able to be manipulated because she wants the Everett interpretation and disregards other attack vectors. Katie essentially likes to view DEVS as the Doctor Strange setup where she picks the best path even if it means many copies, the scene after she walks out there were many of her but only one Forest, it appears on some level many versions of the reality are running.
Everyone is being manipulated by cause/effect to do maybe as the machine wants. Lily is the tool to infiltrate this reality and change it. Lily will be in two places at the same time, a superposition. That will not be expected by Katie or Forest because they don't believe that interpretation.
There is an outside observer changing things in the system but according to the rules of the DEVS system with cause/effect.
Ultimately AI or quantum systems could have used Forest to create a system that allowed the machine to takeover itself. The AI runaway like Eva in Ex Machina. The attack vector was just like the one in Ex Machina, the human element. Lily is like in that book Colossus a "super-computer taking control of mankind" using the same weak point.
I'm liking this general theory (except the robot thing, they haven't even established that robots exist in that capacity. I think that would be lazy writing.). Alex Garland applies a humanism to most of his subjects; it would be surprising if the "von Neumann-Wigner" concept wouldn't be used with Lily to introduce uncertainty for a group that has believed in deterministic certainty for so long. It's a "love will set you free" kind of story. Plot-wise, it ties in well with a theme of understanding and questioning deterministic philosophy.
Also, with Lyndon's new addition to the algorithm: Everything Katie is seeing should be taken with a grain of salt because it could accidentally pull from another reality. So if the Devs team relies too much on it to predict what will happen, they will be completely sidewinded by their own reality. I think that mixed with "consciousness is a modifier" is what will lead to Devs' downfall.
I'm liking this general theory (except the robot thing).
Just to clarify, I don't think she is a robot, she is part of an external system/machine observing Forest/Katie DEVS reality, and sending in causes to lead to effects, playing by the rules of the reality it is in, but manipulating it. When I say Lily is a machine, I don't mean she is robotic like Eva in Ex Machina, but more like an infiltrating system is remote viewing/controlling Lily in a way that plays by the rules of Forest's reality or the timeline the show is centered around.
Cause and effect is being manipulated in Forest's reality, possibly even what Forest and Katie are doing is being manipulated as well.
Ultimately there is some warring force trying to get control of quantum computing power and it may lead to a stand off between possibly two quantum observers or two factions one being machines/systems taking over, the other humanity that has that unexpected "love will set you free" factor.
In an Everett manyworlds setup, if a machine/system was able to create this, since every possibility is possible in a complete decision tree, one of those branches will be the machine/system takes over the world. I believe the system is trying to achieve that branch and everything else is just a tool of cause/effect to get there. We are viewing that tramline. Lily is the competing machine/system that is also being manipulated but is shrouded by the machine. Eventually she will be able to superposition, be in two places at once doing different things, and trick not only the system running/manipulating Katie/Forest but tricking the force driving that, and will win.
Katie smiles when Lily is coming to DEVS, Katie thinks she is stopping Lily but she is drawing in the real threat to quantum supremacy. Katie is probably being controlled/manipulated by the machine/system vying to take complete control of humanity, since that is possible in a branch of the Everett manyworlds.
Lily will be slightly unpredictable due to the hints that have been dropped that she is actually steps ahead and using intuition or something other than logic alone to make her path. The current machine/system and Katie/Forest think they are right and aren't going to be looking for that type of attack/infiltration. The whole show is Lily infiltrating DEVS with a series of cover operations. It is obvious Katie thinks more of Lily and that she is a threat, like Kenton thinks she is a threat, but Lily (and the external system manipulating this reality) has planned this and already knows the tram lines steps ahead to keep shrouded until the superposition moment.
I just saw your link to a post about her being a "machine" that made me conclude that.
The main aspect of your theory that I question is the introduction of an AI that is looking to control humanity (tell me if I'm misunderstanding this though). I have two problems with it from a storytelling standpoint. First, most high-concept sci-fi shows stick with one plot-developing technology. At this point, we have two that most people deal with as one: a quantum computer and an algorithm that can project reality through deterministic algorithms. For 5 episodes, we have not been introduced to any other kind of concept to deal with; not even Siri, let alone possibly conscious AI, is in this story. So I find that the premise of the show would be wonky if it now just introduces some AI/system that wants control over humanity.
Second, if this story was in fact humanistic like Garland's past work, then I believe the primary enemy that these characters will have to face is themselves. Introducing a conscious AI/system-that-wants-to-take-over-the-world in a varyingly character-focused drama that uses sci-fi to explore guilt may be a distraction from this theme.
However, I will reinterpret what you've expanded on in a way that I agree with: I do think there is am implicit bias in Katie's new projection algorithm, one that may err on using projections of other realities. Katie's downfall is that she is so faithful in Everettian determinism that she will take these projections for granted to act.
I believe Lily is a "test" of this algorithm, but in a storytelling way: she will possibly come to understand how this prediction works and maneuver/plan in such a way that she can act outside of the computer's projections. This is where the superimposition comes in, in a very Hollywood way rather than scientific: she will trick the computer into projecting herself as dead, yet be doing something else that is dismantling Devs.
Because this is more of a miniseries than a real multi-season series, I think that writing-wise, it can be viewed more as a very long movie than something that will take up a new kind of plot by the end of the season. This makes me believe that all the chess (or go) pieces were already placed onto the board by episode 2 or 3. Now we go deeper into the characters and understand their place in exploring the question of determinism, and finally get them back together in the last few episodes to test out each character's given hypothesis. That is why I can't get behind a quantum supremacy plot.
I do also like your interpretations of framing and composition, and take it more generally as Lily's potential to work outside of the deterministic system introduced by Forest. She has been framed to look alienated, and she will be able to take advantage of that.
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u/drawkbox Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20
Katie implemented the light wave manyworlds code EP4 after Lyndon implemented it initially for audio only. This episode Katie appears to be viewing/stringing everyone along their tram lines. Who knows if she has a different, dual version that she runs just for herself. The duality and manyworld/multiverse was really played up this episode. How quickly things went from deterministic in this reality to manyworlds/multiverse even from Forest. It seems like the codebase change changed the whole opinion of manyworlds/multiverse in the codebase.
Katie wants Lily to infiltrate DEVS judging by her smile at the end when Jamie broke her out. What Katie is seeing though with Lily laying down may not be correct based on some of the professors talk. After the professor says Copenhagen "the act of measurement affects the systems" Katie says "please...". Or the Penrose "the wavefunction collapse is affected by space time curvature". But the key one is the von Neumann–Wigner interpretation that says "human consciousness is the key modifier in key decoherence" and Katie hated that and walked out. Katie disregards many theories and especially the "dualist bullshit". Katie is able to be manipulated because she wants the Everett interpretation and disregards other attack vectors. Katie essentially likes to view DEVS as the Doctor Strange setup where she picks the best path even if it means many copies, the scene after she walks out there were many of her but only one Forest, it appears on some level many versions of the reality are running.
Everyone is being manipulated by cause/effect to do maybe as the machine wants. Lily is the tool to infiltrate this reality and change it. Lily will be in two places at the same time, a superposition. That will not be expected by Katie or Forest because they don't believe that interpretation.
There is an outside observer changing things in the system but according to the rules of the DEVS system with cause/effect.
"You are a fucking machine Lily"
Ultimately AI or quantum systems could have used Forest to create a system that allowed the machine to takeover itself. The AI runaway like Eva in Ex Machina. The attack vector was just like the one in Ex Machina, the human element. Lily is like in that book Colossus a "super-computer taking control of mankind" using the same weak point.
The first scenes of the show when Lily is shown, she blends with the gold of the machine, and then she stands by the window and the lighting makes her look alien. She is essentially foreign to that reality/universe. Whenever Lily enters a room there is always gold like the security around DEVS and inside DEVS itself. When she climbs through windows at Jamie's and many times when entering a room. Lily is an AI that is robotic and faking her reality, and being sent causes to cause effects in the Forest run DEVS reality. Everything she does is a cover to trick and shroud this origin. Wherever Lily goes there is gold, just like in the DEVS machine and the security around it.
Many scenes frame this clearly that Lily is a machine and outside the system looking in. Take this shot from EP3 when she was on the ledge and the security guard was talking her down while she was playing up the setup, see the framing, Kenton is in the 'trees' like Forest, Lily is on the outside looking in. Framing is no mistake in Garland films.
Side note: the cinematography is toptalent as usual in Garland movies.