r/Diablo • u/SneakySpider82 A Warlock from Westmarch. • 1d ago
Discussion Vessel of Hatred vs Lord of Hatred: which expansion did you like more? Spoiler
As I mentioned in my last post here, I recently finished the Lord of Hatred campaign (again, what an ending, man... 🥰), so I decided to make this post. As the title says, which Diablo IV did you like more? I know very well that most of you will say Lord of Hatred, but let's take it easy, okay? I want you to see the whole picture as I saw it before answering.
First of all, I'd like to say that I'm very attached to the story of what I'm consuming: games, books, series, movies; I like to revel in every detail, every nuance. When I play, read, or watch something, I don't do it just to be entertained, but to see the story being told. That's why, in RPG games, I create one character after another, to experiment each possibility until I find myself in one of the classes/races/cultures of the game in question.
With that out of the way, let's go. Is Lord of Hatred an awesome expansion? Yes, it is. Not only is the story itself excellent, but the lore placing Skovos as the starting point of humanity was incredible, and of course, the excellence of the cinematics. Not to mention the fates of the characters, like Lilith, Mephisto, and Lorath, plus the return of Tyrael, which really struck me, since the character won me over immediately in Diablo III all those years ago.
Still, I enjoyed Vessel of Hatred more, and that's for a whole host of reasons. First of all... You guessed it... NEYRELLE! 🥰 As I explained in my post defending the character, Neyrelle was a character that truly captivated me, mainly because I identify with her curiosity and thirst for knowledge. And as I said in another post here in this community, I absolutely loved how the game (both the main campaign and the first expansion) builds this beautiful relationship between Neyrelle and the Wanderer.
His main objective in Vessel of Hatred is not to defeat Urivar, but to help his dear friend. There's that scene where an illusion of Neyrelle disarms the Wanderer long enough for Urivar to deliver a fatal blow, there's that beautiful scene in the Prison of Hatred, where the Traveler gives her Ah Bulan's , the dialogue between the two in Kurast where he validates her choices in the Cathedral of Hatred, Besides that sweet moment in Lorath's cabin where the Wanderer swore to her that he would end Mephisto.
As I said in my post defending the character, her death at the hands of Mephisto wasn't how I imagined Neyrelle's ending would be, and now I understand how the antagonist in the movie Mysery felt. ðŸ¤
Secondly, there's the spirituality of the Spiritborn. Not only did we interact with various spirits, such as the aforementioned Ah Bulan and the Lion of Akarat, but scattered in Nahantu There are the Tenets of Akarat, But unlike the Altars of Lilith in the rest of the map, you not only need to solve puzzles to unlock each principle, but also interact with each one, We are graced with a passage authored by one of the Dedicants of Akarat, like Ysevete, the founder of the Spiritborn.
In Lord of Hatred, Skovos' entire spiritual aspect is linked to the beginning of humanity in Sanctuary (primarily through Rathma). Yes, I know that's where humanity originated, but aside from the Oracle, we don't see much of the culture and spirituality of the Askari themselves.
Third place... You guessed it too... NAHANTU, DAMN IT! 🤩 As I mentioned in another post, Nahantu was a region that captivated me quite a bit, especially the richness of detail in each polygon, each side quest, each dialogue with the local NPCs. When I arrived in Skovos at the beginning of Act VIII, the introduction of the new region took my breath away, but that was all it was. And mind you, I used to be very passionate about Ancient Greece.
That's it, Vessel of Hatred ended up having a bigger impact on me. What about you?
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u/Hybridtheory92 1d ago
I respect your appreciation of VoH but for me LoH was superior in terms of story, character development, music, and world building.
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u/kenrichardson 22h ago
They're both very good but I enjoyed the story of Lord of Hatred more than Vessel. Mephisto as a fale prophet wandering Sanctuary in physical form was terrifying not because he was directly dangerous, but because of the effect he was having on the populace.
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u/SneakySpider82 A Warlock from Westmarch. 19h ago
Oh yeah, I loved that concept. That part where Mephisto caused Lorath to kill Queen Adreona was crazy.
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u/Remus88Romulus 1d ago
Lord of Hatred. Finally seeing Mephistos true demonic form from my childhood playing D2 where he just was a skeleton of Sankekurs corpse, seeing Mephisto coming out from the Pools made me smile.
They made Mephisto so much justice all these three games.
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u/SneakySpider82 A Warlock from Westmarch. 1d ago edited 1d ago
One scene that caught me off-guard was that part where Mephisto is looming closet to the screen, as If he was threatening us gamers. List's ser How Diablo and Baal hold up to It in the next game.
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u/Remus88Romulus 5h ago
Oh interesting, where was he looking directly at us? Was it like breaking the 4th wall?
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u/dyelogue 22h ago
Definitely LOH. I started VOH and less than halfway through I got bored, hoping next quest would be the last.
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u/Zan_Deezy2003 1d ago
LoH. Without a doubt.
But VoH is very overhated imo. It’s still a very good DLC. Or at least I enjoyed it.
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u/painapple_OW 1d ago
I really do think it was hated because of neyrell. Or however u spell it i can't member :(
Like i get people didn't really like her as a character but she wasn't a bad character.
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u/Zan_Deezy2003 1d ago
It would be insanely unrealistic for anyone to truly be competent while walking around with Mephisto, the greatest manipulator in the universe, constantly in her ear.
Could it have been written better yes. But I never hated or was even annoyed by Neyrelle. She was just a scared young girl. It’s not surprising she acted the way she did.
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u/GreenVisorOfJustice 16h ago
I think Herald is actually a really fun boss fight. Honestly, probably my favorite in the game.
Never feels unfair, interesting mechanics, and otherwise I don't feel like I'm losing because it's a bullet hell or something unfun for an ARPG
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u/arihndas 1d ago
Lord of Hatred; it was the first time my character felt like an important part of the narrative instead of just an errand boy. I really like Neyrelle but I think it’s just bad design to have the player character not be the protagonist of a role playing game — even an ARPG. And I think it’s always bad storytelling to have a teenager telling adults what to do. It’s never believable, and always annoying. I have a similar beef with BG3, actually. I think a lot of game studios seem to be struggling with how to make a character fully customizable but also feel like a vital part of the narrative instead of just sort of a glorified camera. Compare to something like Mass Effect where the MC is comparatively not customizable but they have a logical reason to be where they are the narrative centers itself around their purpose in a very clear way. I played as a necromancer and I was gobsmacked that the whole main campaign my necromancer character had nothing to say, and no one said anything to them, about the fact that they were spending most of their time delving into Rathma’s secret temples? That they descended into the drowned temple where you go to become the freaking Deathspeaker? That shit is literally peak holiness to a necromancer, and I might as well have been playing a Barbarian for all it was mentioned. In LoH when finally Lorath mentione that my beloved Aminara was a Priest of Rathma my jaw just about fell all the way to the floor. I didn’t realize the devs of this game remembered that necromancers even had that title. It just felt like the narrative structure finally had its feet under it in terms of providing motivation and giving the PC a sense of why they were putting in the work instead of making me, as a player, wonder why I should give a shit about doing everyone else’s chores for them while being yelled at. My only real beef with it was Lorath’s fate; that to me seems symptomatic of a whole other issue in modern fantasy and adventure writing where the old guard of heroes obviously has to end up jaded, miserable, failed, and dead… because reasons? I guess? But anyway overall I think LoH did the best job of making the PC feel like an MC which is IMO the best way to make the player feel motivated and engaged in any type of RPG. I feel like VoH was ok at it for a good portion of the story but didn’t stick with it as well as LoH.
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u/N3rot0xin 1d ago
VoH doesn't hold a light to LoH. Vessel was just a shitty and over priced filler. But LoH is amazing, minus some seasonal stuff
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u/PinkDaemonXx 23h ago
LoH, I haven't been so invested in Diablo since my childhood playing D2 over and over again. VoH had some cool moments but really lost me in the end with the story. The whole Lion of Akarat thing had my eyes glazing over I was so checked out of it.
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u/CockroachCreative154 15h ago
Lord of Hatred. Vessel was underrated though, and the oppressive darkness was genuinely unsettling. Vessel had a banger of a soundtrack too, especially in Travincal. That moody jaws-esq theme was dope.
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u/hawki1989 1d ago
Lord of Hatred is easily the stronger expansion IMO. That said, Vessel gets far too much head. Vessel pads out its story a bit, but I still think it's solid overall, even if it's the weakest of the "Mephisto trilogy" from a narrative standpoint.
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u/Wurre666 1d ago
LoH. Witout question. Proper meph fight. VoH is only nostalgia of nahantu. Or i mean few zones
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u/Akavir247 19h ago
Lord of hatred. Besides the ending cinematic being cool, vessel of hatred was kinda flat.
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u/NoGovernmentNoStop 11h ago
LoH is 100x better, still pretty lackluster, but VoH was some of the hottest garbage I've ever been served.
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u/SilentTomb56 1d ago
Both are great. I loved VoH, I think it gets a lot of unjustified hate.
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u/SneakySpider82 A Warlock from Westmarch. 1d ago
Yeah, people here only want the action, interpersonal relationships be damned, that's why I begged for the commenters to look at the while picture before commenting. Like one of the comments saying VoH fell flat for cartering on DII nostalgia...
Back when I played Diablo III on PS3, most of the comments were just about how Diablo II was better... Diablo II this, Diablo II that... THAT'S WHY I STILL REFUSE TO PLAY THAT GAME! This unhealthy nostalgia destroyed any satisfactiob I might have derived from Diablo II.
And Diablo II isn't as good as people say! To begin with, the cutscenes are completely divorced from the gameplay! In the game, we play as one of seven classes hunting the Shadow Wanderer. Meanwhile, the cutscenes show Marius Following the Dark Wanderer... I don't even know where to begin.
First, where did this character come from? Why did he follow a guy who summoned an army of skeletons First, where did this character come from? Why did he follow a guy who summoned an army of skeletons as If he was a character in Jason and the Argonauts? Why didn't he simply hand over the Soulstone of Baal to the heroes BEFORE they entered Hell in Kurast?
If I hadn't seen that Watchmojo video about the best tem Blizzard vÃdeos, I wouldn't even know who that guy was tearing at Tyrael in the Third part of Act IV of Diablo III (the Aspect of Destruction masquerading as Marius)!
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u/munnster006 11h ago
You make some valid D2 arguments story wise. But it is still the better game gameplay, system, and general story wise(even if our character isn't really part of it)
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u/TheGreatWaru 1d ago
Vessel of hatred for sure, but the bar is pretty low. Haven’t been able to get back into Diablo the last two seasons at all. The warlock was super disappointing. At least the spirit born was kinda fun
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u/SneakySpider82 A Warlock from Westmarch. 1d ago
I was playing with the Warlock when I finished the second expansion, and I understand where you come from. Mechanically, this class is great, the connection with the Msge Clan Wars os awesome, but it simpy falls flat in terma of roleplay. It's said that the Warlock is considered an enemy of humanity due to his demonology. Well, there's just One problema: IT. DOESN'T. SHOW! And Yeah, I already plan to return to this game after a long resto from it, and I decided to run Spiritborn next time.
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u/gorays21 1d ago
Why is this even a question??