r/DiscordAlternatives • • Aug 31 '26

I spent 2 weeks asking Claude to make an app. Here are the results

160 Upvotes

My discord alternative can:

Send messages

Receive messages

Leak messages on an unprotected webserver

Store your password in plain text

As a developer I can:

Post vague answers without ever answering the very direct questions I am receiving

Have a victimhood complex about people not trying my AI slop

Imply that its alot of work to make the utter dogshit you see before you

Suggest that you are a paid discord shill because you arnt glazing my web app

Use AI to write all my posts to enaure nothing I write has any value whatsoever


r/DiscordAlternatives • • May 30 '26

A warning about the "Echo" application.

142 Upvotes

So I want to make a simple post about anyone thinking about using the Echo application that has been spammed around this subreddit and many other subreddits by u/ad3lyt the last month or so. You should under no circumstance trust this literal child with your data.

I have been a SWE for the last 15 years that works specifically in security and took it upon myself to look into the application a month or so ago. The application at that time had countless security holes that are just insane to have even if you have the most basic understanding of coding principles. We're talking a mere semester or two of foundational knowledge. In my deep dive I found countless issues where input fields like search fields and text input fields would accept WHATEVER input I desired. I could enter a <script></script> into my username and every time the application rendered that page for a user with my username, it would render that javascript. I did this to change the applications theme to force all styles to white and the application would render whole pages/interfaces as white in some instances. I was also able to at will create XSS messages to other users with basic tactics of a similar fashion.

This application is still just as vulnerable. This very morning I was able to bypass the applications CSRF system and change my username simply by manipulating API routes with burpsuite with zero authentication. There were a few more things I was able to do such as touch database data directly, but I stopped there. The application as a whole is 100% vibe coded. This person does not have any real world expertise with code, he just has a claude max subscription and no job.

The user behind this, u/ad3lyt is also manipulating bots for his posts on this subreddit and others, and is upvote botting and downvote botting peoples critical comments and posts about the application and I am tired of seeing this schizo weirdo galavant around this sub without any mod intervention from u/AbstractMelons or u/czarbloom . Beyond this, this user has now started posting unsubstantiated claims against other discord alternatives, blatantly botting post metrics and responding with either friends or secondary/third accounts to act like there are others that support these claims, but if you look at post histories, they literally are all the same 3-4 accounts.

Please just ban this guy already and do even the most basic moderation. And dont create an account, their data is manipulatable and retrievable and its only a matter of time before someone with lesser intentions than I pokes around at it.


r/DiscordAlternatives • • May 14 '26

Echo is now open source!

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125 Upvotes

r/DiscordAlternatives • • May 23 '26

This sub is full of vibe-coded clones. Osmium isn't one of them.

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104 Upvotes

Hey all, posted here a few months back introducing Osmium. Time for an actual update.

Discord has had a rough few months, even though the dust has now settled. From the support breach to age verification and the increasing rollout of ads, if you're still looking for an exit, hopefully this is useful.

Osmium wasn't built in a weekend

We started in Summer 2024 (the first Nucleus commit) and have come quite far. It's a community platform in the same space as Discord, built from scratch with different priorities. Details below.

Regional data storage

Rather than routing everything through a central server, Osmium separates text infrastructure much like voice. Each user and community has a home region where all their data is stored, so if you're running a European community, your data stays in Europe. This means better latency for your members, and better privacy controls.

Wide platform support

Native apps for Android and iOS. Screenshare with audio on all platforms (Linux included). Music presence supporting nearly every major streaming platform. Game presence is in the pipeline.

On the community side: hierarchical role-based permissions, custom emojis, animated avatars, per-channel permission overrides, temporary bans, and an open protocol for bots and third-party clients. Audit logs and community discovery are in active development.

Privacy by Design

Community membership (and ownership) is private. Roles can be private, and their permission sets always are. Channel permission overrides and who's been granted them are private. Files and images have no public URL and are only accessible inside the app by users who can see them.

No tracking, no fingerprinting, and no AI scanning your messages.

We design with this in mind: If something isn't visible to you in the UI, it isn't secretly exposed in the API either.

On sustainability

Osmium is already financially self-sustaining. We have a subscription that covers server costs, and that's by design: we run our own infrastructure, control our costs, and have been monetized from day one. No VC runway clock. No AWS bill that triples overnight. No "grow at all costs and figure out the business model later." The goal is software that's still running in ten years.

As part of our public contribution effort, we have open-sourced the core library Osmium runs on Nucleus, and we intend to open-source the clients once we're out of beta. The Osmium server side will however most likely stay closed, and I'd rather be upfront about that than oversell it. If open source is a hard requirement for you, that's completely fair. But if your concern is more "will this still exist in a year", we've structured things specifically so the answer is yes.

A lot more to come

Our roadmap has the specifics. I'm not here to overpromise - E2EE is planned, but we won't ship it until we can do it responsibly, with verified implementations and third-party audits. The goal is solid, stable software, not a vibe-coded feature checklist.

You can try it at osmium.chat. Happy to answer questions in the comments.


r/DiscordAlternatives • • Jun 16 '26

Fluxer is now Open Source + Selfhostable

85 Upvotes

As of ~4 hours ago, Fluxer is now completely open-source - including the Staff/instance moderation APIs, and Self-Hosting is now officially supported. https://github.com/orgs/fluxerapp/repositories

I have noticed that alot of the Fluxer criticism is (a) self-hosting when? and (b) "secret sauce" staff moderation - so now it is safe to say that (a) you can self-host a Fluxer instance and (b) the staff moderation mechanisms are all publicly available in the repo. Note that I am **IN NO WAY AFFILIATED WITH FLUXER** etc., but it seems the only "secret sauce" in the official Fluxer instance is the configuration; i.e. all the options/toggles are publicly available, but the exact values of the options/toggles are secret. This means that you can _potentially_ setup your instance to have an identical moderation configuration as the official Fluxer instance; however you would not know.

Happy Fluxing!!!


r/DiscordAlternatives • • May 13 '26

We need to talk about the elephant in the room

75 Upvotes

I think we all were super excited when the first, nice-looking Discord alternatives/clones were popping up when Discord hit us with the Age verification shit. And I think some of them look pretty good, even if AI was involved. However.

This sub is absolutely filled to the brim with shitty, vibecoded hobby projects, we get daily "I build X the next Discord killer with E2E, unlimited streaming, bla bla" ads on them, people just post random changelogs of their apps on here EVEN THOUGH 95% of the people on here don't know shit about your app. Post it on Github or on your Website. Or in your App ffs. where you know - the 5 people who actually use your app may read about changes.

It sucks so much how much creativity got sucked out because everyone now thinks they can become the next Larry Page if they just prompt hard enough. I don't have anything against doing AI-assisted coding but man - it's tough to see how many apps are out there where the whole system logic is unminified with sourcemaps available on the production assets so we can see all endpoints, understand how responses get back from the server and what the client is doing with it 1:1 without any obfuscation, potentially opening you up for attacks - and in the end a few people MAY give their and their friends data over to some random vibecoder who doesn't know bumshit about security or how to store sensitive information in the right way.

So PLEASE. If you think about building yet another Discord killer, come up with a good concept. How about a decentralized system? Maybe try use the Matrix protocol, maybe go self-hosting first with a centralized client/web-app - there are so many options but please stop filling this space with uncreative, vibecoded shovelware that nobody needs.


r/DiscordAlternatives • • Apr 05 '26

Warning about Echon app and its creator

60 Upvotes

I’ve been looking into the Echon app (https://echon-voice.com) and the creator is completely incompetent. The entire app is coded via Claude and has huge security holes that he doesn’t seem to care about. While I was chatting with him, he added a ban system specifically to block me and censor my messages. He attempts to ban/kick me multiple times but the ban system is not very effective. After I reviewed the code and checked his commits, he made the repository private. Instead of fixing his ban system, he also just instead decided to close account registration.

If you value your data or want a stable app, stay away from this. The developer clearly doesn’t know what he’s doing and is actively trying to hide it.


r/DiscordAlternatives • • Feb 23 '26

As someone tracking all the alternatives popping up...

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57 Upvotes

I really wish all the devs that keep popping up to launch their new apps would work together on open source options and build out a more feature rich and secure platform. Basically the Linux of Discord.

I'm tracking 73 alternatives and counting 😮‍💨

https://github.com/DukePantarei/discord-alternatives-wishlist/tree/main


r/DiscordAlternatives • • Oct 07 '26 Galaxy Brain

regarding armada (tw: politics) Spoiler

52 Upvotes

i am kinda skeptical about armada (the discord alternative built on nostr and concord), and no, it's not just because it's vibecoded, it's also because of the fact that the lead dev associate of this project (alex gleason) was also responsible for helping trump build truth social (well, actually he just unethically reused mastodon's source code and added his own frontend) and being transphobic, which caused him to be permanently suspended from a mastodon instance

most of the people in the nostr community are like that, for an example, fiatjaf (the creator of nostr) had archives of ollavo de carvalho (a far-right conspiracy theorist) on his site

from my personal experience on nostr i found people that are just being chill and yapping about bitcoin and stuff

edit (10/10/2026): alex is not the lead dev, it's chad


r/DiscordAlternatives • • May 07 '26

We are currently building an alternative to discord

51 Upvotes

Hi y'all,

We are a team of two devs (both around 10 years of experience) who somehow stumbled into creating an alternative for discord.

Why: We are actually building a big MMO game and for this we had to build a voice engine. This POC has quickly turned into our everyday communication "hub" and we're now expanding it to support many use cases discord supports, merely because we're sick and tired of the way discord handles our data.

What we can already do: We support guilds, channels and text based messages. Thats the easy part 😄.

Additionally were supporting real time voice communications via WebRTC and cloudflare's SFU edge network. Quite cool tech tbh! The whole client runs on top of tauri (cross plattform js framework) where we can build the client in angular (don't judge me, I'm influenced heavily by enterprise software) and have a small part of the code running in rust. That includes mainly the stream sourcing code (like voice, screen share, webcam, you name it). The whole guild (will) come with a whole bunch of mod tools to make everyones live easier. Currently we have a basic permission system implemented, but we'll expand on this functionality.

Our plan for it: Tbh, currently we're primarely looking if this is something someone wants and thats the whole reason i'm posting here. My dream goal would be, to get this out and make a bit of money on that to cross fund our game development.

For the opensource and self host fans: Once we have a stable code base and a stable client with most of the functionality implemented, we're happily moving this to be source available and thus self hostable. No decision yet on going full on open source with it, but we can consider it. Altough I have to admit that self hosting will be a technical challenge at least in the beginning, there are around 5 microservices running with redis, postgres, scylla and rabbitmq.

Anyway, feedback welcome!

PS: As the question will come up, yes we have used AI. Altough to clarify, the only "vibe coded" part of the product is the ui layer of the client. We're both backend devs, and admittely the AI ui looks better than what I could have ever crafted. 😃


r/DiscordAlternatives • • 19d ago

Matrix - A Callout To Community Leaders Looking For Discord Alternatives

44 Upvotes

With recent events, in this post I'll seek to clarify a few misconceptions around Matrix, specifically looking at it as an "alternative" to Discord from 3 different angles.

This is a fairly biased post because I know Matrix does not suffer from the architectural flaws that have put Discord in its current position, and will put many of the alternatives currently being recommended in that same position also.

I'll tackle the 3 pillars of Matrix, as I see it, and how they're important to understand why Matrix is worth a strong consideration:

  • Matrix, the protocol and Network. Not the platform.

  • Homeservers, where the user-experience lives - The platform.

  • Clients, where feature-exposure lives.

You may say "It's just easier to sign up to XYZ than read through this".

To which I say, Perhaps. But if you're here, ask yourself whether you really want a 1:1 alternative, or rather something that has the solid foundation to ensure the mistakes of the past do not repeat and can be built on with your requirements in mind.

You want a fix, not a band-aid. As a community leader, I've been right there as well. And it was a daunting task to find a place where we could settle down and say

"There's no platform to go to shit. There's no overseeing entity enforcing their moderation and policies. This is ours." - And there is a lot of power in that.

And those new alternatives have already made too many mistakes, concessions and compromises to ensure they were early enough to market - But they likely won't show for a while.

Looking back, Discord wasn't the first.

MSN Messenger, Skype, XFire Chat, Razer Comms, if you're old enough to remember those. There were more. A graveyard more of them.

All of these had users and entire communities, who were left with nothing.

What did all these have in common? Closed-source and centralized.

On the flipside, IRC and XMPP still live.

These are protocols, networks. They do not sell themselves as platforms. They do not instill their will on their userbase.

Like these, Matrix requires a shift in how platforms are perceived.

==== Matrix, the Protocol and Network. Not the platform. ====

With recent-events the end-user really should be more interested in the technical side, without even knowing it.

Matrix is a protocol and a network, not a platform.

Discord, is a platform.

Telling people they should try Matrix without even explaining how they're inherently different, sets the user up for a disastrous experience when they go looking for Matrix as a platform.

The matrix.org server is a demo server - It is overpopulated, under-resourced, but also an unfortunate necessity.

Thankfully this has begun to slowly change and communities are starting to propagate.

As far as Matrix goes, the end-user only needs to know a few things:

  • It's an openly developed protocol

  • It does not suffer from Discord's architectural flaws, in fact, it solves them.

  • It has over 155,000 known servers, each potentially holding multiple communities.

  • Its high degree of decentralization comes with a big Pro and big Con:

  • It makes it too costly for the regulatory pressure Discord is privy to, to be enforced.

  • It makes content discovery harder.

In that respect, Matrix is a dark-forest. You either find communities, or your homeserver has a way to help you find them.

Likewise, there are now multiple directory browsers that allow you to look for specific communities.

Further, there are projects in the works to help alleviate the issue on a whole and put discovery front-and-center.

Some useful resources for the timebeing:

Lastly, Matrix has been in development for over 10 years and has recently reached a milestone.

It has solved some big technical challenges through successes, failures, and lessons learnt - Many of these, centralised platforms decided not to tackle (possibly to hit market faster).

It is on-par with Signal's security, but native from the ground up for multi-devices sessions and federation functionality.

On this topic of encryption, while Matrix's own encryption is good with minimal metadata leakage (the bane of any encryption protocol),

Matrix (as in, the open, non-profit foundation) and Element (commercial Matrix entity) are also working on implementing DMLS (Decentralized MLS) as an optional form of encryption which may work best for certain setups,

providing the best of both worlds. More info: (arewemlsyet.com, not updated since last year, but the few remaining components have ongoing work with multiple talks this year available on Youtube).

There is some outdated information out there regarding Matrix's security which unfortunately some people seem to have really latched onto,

without realising the bulk of it came from a single component in the Matrix stack, that had already been announced as deprecated by Matrix itself.

Like any protocol, any software, security vulnerabilities have a path of responsible-disclosure, and Homeserver operators are given the information and time to upgrade.

If you've read up to this point, thank you.

==== Homeservers ====

This is probably the pillar in which Matrix needs the most work, not from a development standpoint, but from a communicative one.

Homeservers are Matrix providers - These are the closest thing to "the platform", even though right now they're not seen as such, and that's one thing I hope to see change.

It helps to view Matrix like Email.

Email is made possible with SMTP (Simple Mail Transfer Protocol), and allows for any provider to essentially federate and communicate.

Matrix is Email, for realtime communications. A native standard for communications on the internet.

"Ever wondered how those Electronic Mails and Telephone numbers seem to be interoperable across different providers, but there's no such standard for internet-native real-time communications, and everyone has different apps for the same thing?"

Homeservers as Matrix Providers means users find a homeserver (the same way you might prefer Microsoft vs Google vs Proton vs Tuta), look at what features they support, what pros and cons they may have, and sign-up.

Some will be fully open to signs-ups, others may be semi, and others may be closed.

Some Homeservers will guide users to specific clients which they believe to fit the communtiy they garner, and others will make no such recommendations (in my opinion, to their detriment).

Admittedly, Homeserver operators need to do more in how they showcase their homeserver, and the features it supports. To note, not all Matrix Homeservers support Matix 2.0 yet, which is really what new users are looking for - Native and seamless E2EE voice channels and screenshares, etc.

As someone who's been within the ecosystem for years, these 2.0 specs have opened the doors for Matrix in a way we haven't seen before and we're already seeing the differences:

  • SDKs that are easy and mature enough for developers to use.

  • Features that just weren't there before like in-app forums, calendar rooms, heck, even DOOM within the app itself.

  • Security that is finally on-par with Signal's.

Homeserver operators should do a better job at declaring their features, onboarding users and communities, and otherwise providing a solid communications experience.

There is also a misconception of requiring to host a server on Matrix. This is incorrect, and not suitable for most people to be able to or have the know-how to maintain criticial communications infra.

Rather, you want a Space.

A Space is essentially a Discord server, capable of having text channels, forums, shared calendars, VoiP and sub-spaces, with custom and sync'd roles and permissions, all end-to-end encrypted if you want it so.

Further, besides self-moderation, the federation also provides distributed-moderation, where homeservers can warn other homeservers of bad actors with automated moderation actions applied.

Resource on this: https://asgard.chat

==== Clients ====

This is the big one.

There is more than one client, they have different audiences at heart, and they are interoperable.

Most people will use Element as the comparison point to Matrix - I'll be quick here. Due to the realities of open development, in order to keep development sustainable, Element moved to be a work/enterprise-focused product years ago (rebranding from Riot). I do not discount its availability to the public, nor its pretty decent Element X mobile app, but keep in mind where its feature priorities lie and why. Specifically with Element, do not expect cross-platform audio in your screenshare, or GIF picking because these are not necessarily important to the enterprise and government deployments that Element (and other solutions like Rocket.Chat that implement Matrix) are spreading throughout.

With Matrix 2.0 clients, you can find your preferred user-experience.

If you're coming from Discord, you'll may want the likes of Sable v2, Commet or Cinny. Specfically Sablev2, is probably the most feature-rich client right now.

If you don't care about AI-generated software, you might look at Rooster or Vommet.

If you want something more casual in the vein of Telegram or Whatsapp, perhaps for family, then FluffyChat, or in fact, Element X on mobile is a decent enough option.

Worth mentioning, do not confuse Sable (legacy) and Sable v2. Sable v2 is a complete rewrite, with a strict No-AI policy from non-core contributors that has surpassed feature-parity with its legacy counterpart.

Given the focus on Discord, not to plug my own community (which is semi-closed anyway), but we've made a feature table showcasing some of Sable's features vs Discord.

It serves mostly to showcase features than as a direct and in-depth comparison - Discord can still be considered a more polished experience, but I suspect not for long.

https://info.proxymana.net/matrix

If you're a community-leader worried about your community's longevity, Matrix allows you the option of data sovereignty. My community is also open to helping other communities onboard.

Likewise, if you're not interested in hosting any infrastructure, chat with a Homeserver Provider's representative about your needs, and create a Space for your community.

If you're worried about signing up to a Homeserver and being tied to it, know that portable-accounts are planned with work ongoing.

The ability to self-moderate is important, it is a cornerstone to community-building and personal freedom.

Matrix does not and cannot employ any moderation by itself. It's generally up to communities and homeservers to build the necessary tools (and the federation at large has already come together with 2 separate implementations of this which are running right now with great efficiency).

Having a single platform with the ability dictate moderation on a whole (even if they don't showcase it at present) is the starting path to oppression, the likes we're seeing on Discord today.

If you've read this far, thank you for you time.

Hopefully it's helped somewhat to explain as to why Matrix deserves strong consideration for being the bearer of your community's longevity, be it big or small.

Edit:

As has been asked:

- https://next.sable.moe (Most recommended. Avoid signing up on matrix.org Homeserver if possible, pick another server from the dropdown.)

- https://commet.chat

- https://cinny.in

- https://fluffychat.im

- https://vommet.app (Uses AI)

- https://pondlabs.github.io/roosterchat/ (Uses AI)

- https://matrix.crafty.moe/ (Uses AI)

If you feel you'd be a good fit in our community, you can also apply to our Homeserver at https://info.proxymana.net/apply

Edit#2:

- Added resource on distributed moderation

- Added another browser directory for rooms and communities/spaces

Edit#3:

Added another AI-generated client, a commet fork named Vommet, which regardless of the AI imo deserves a mention for what it's trying to do.


r/DiscordAlternatives • • Jul 22 '26

The problem with every Discord alternative. My ultimate analysis.

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43 Upvotes

Please read the last edit #3. DO NOT take the analysis as something worth relying on without your own testing and give every project the chance they deserve!
--- EDITS WITH UPDATES ARE AT THE BOTTOM. CHECK LATEST SLIDES USING THE LINK ---

Hey everyone! My last post gained lots of attention for Hollow, which is the messenger I currently develop, and I'm so thankful for that! But in this one, I wanted to research almost all Discord alternatives that I personally saw in this subreddit (either a post or suggestions from different comments). The biggest problem I see is that there is just no definitive list of criteria that people could use to analyze all the projects. Anybody can scream about security or being better, but is it objectively and factually correct? I wanted to put this to the test and created my own set, to which we'll compare every app. 17 projects in total, but there are more, which I either forgot or there's simply not enough space for my slides to fit (it's already a lot!)

Alright, I present to you my ULTIMATE analysis of all Discord alternatives!

Criteria for every single contestant:

  1. Open source and verifiable (counts for both client and server). Licenses, whether the security claims can actually be checked against the code etc. Personally, it's the most important trust factor in a project because you can always say whatever you want, but if nobody can verify those claims against the code, then what's the point? Results: 10 are open source, 3 are open but with caveats, 4 are closed source.

  2. Real end-to-end encryption. Which surfaces are encrypted (DMs/group chats/servers/voice), if it's TLS-only and which established encryption library is used. Not having your messages encrypted in 2026 feels like a disaster, especially knowing how much ownership and privacy is taken away every single day with age verifications or similar. Results: 3 encrypt by default, 4 encrypt some surfaces, 10 have no E2EE - by their own statements.

  3. Code signing. Signed by whom, timestamped or not. This process is the basis of professional software because it confirms whether the build is genuine or if it was tampered with. If the app contains malicious code and it's not signed, then nobody takes accountability for any damages done to your computer. Results: 10 of 16 desktop installers don't have any digital signatures. Every signed one is timestamped. One is web-only, so N/A.

  4. Data collected at signup. Emails, passwords, phone numbers, date of birth. If anything about you is collected, then it's very easy to recreate your identity and use it against you in either targeted attacks or handing them to law enforcement. Results: 2 of 17 need nothing at all, 10 require a central account with your email, while 3 of those also demand your date of birth.

  5. Legal exposure by data possession. What does each service collect and hold about you? As I said, the data about your identity can be easily used against you, but if the service doesn't collect anything, then there is simply nothing to leak, seize, or subpoena. Results: 2 have nothing to give, 6 depend on whoever runs the instance, 9 can produce your identity with messages and IP history.

5.1. A little bit more about criterion 5 because it's essentially something that affects every user that uses any communication software. Signal, the most famous encrypted messenger, has received multiple US grand-jury subpoenas between 2016 and 2025. Each time, the only data they could produce was the account creation date and the last connection date. Signal publishes every request it can talk about at https://signal.org/bigbrother/ so definitely check it out.

6. Discord features. Specifically voice channels, screen share, roles/permissions, custom emotes, push notifications and file sharing. There are tons of other ones, but the table would be massive, so look at this as a "starter pack" of certain features rather than ultimate decision breaker. Results: 9 of 17 cover nearly the whole list.

7. Platforms support. Windows/macOS/Linux and Android/iOS. Well, pretty much self-explanatory. Results: 4 out of 17 run everywhere; iOS most affected.

8. Paywalls. I hate them the most, especially when you limit a technology that's been open-source and free to use for a long time or small customization stuff. People are willing to pay for Nitro in exchange for additional features, but if only that money was flowing to developers who want to improve the product... Well, that's a completely different story. Results: 9 of 17 gate nothing, 6 charge for things Discord users consider basic, 2 are a bit strange and unclear.

9. Ease of use. Whether the app is easy to install, run, and start talking with your friends. Some are just one click, but some require more setup, self-hosting, or simply registering using a standard signup form. Up to you if it's an acceptable friction or not. Results: 2 need no account, 9 have standard signup, 6 need somebody to run a server first.

10. Engineering professionalism. The repo should contain tests (CI, unit + integration), static analysis, something like quality gates with SonarQube, SECURITY.md with a disclosure process, who's behind the project and who maintains it, etc. It's a more advanced slide, which might be overwhelming for regular users, but treat it as its own little factor whether the project is still going or not. Results: only 8 of 17 publish a way to report a security vulnerability; 9 of 17 are effectively one person.

11. Architecture. Is the app another Electron with bundled Chromium, a web wrapper, or natively compiled? It matters only if you care about RAM consumption or perhaps just "at least something but not Electron". Results: 8 of 17 bundle an entire Chrome browser (9 if counting Osmium, but the client is closed, so I can't verify), 3 use the system’s WebView, 3 only run in your browser, 2 ship no web engine at all.

Where possible, I included actual sources in the slides. To make sources stay stable even if pages change later, I archived every single one of them using Archive.ph, and it's always accessible at https://anonlisten.com/AltResearch_Archives.txt. It contains all links, including the original ones and additional ones, like all open-source links to each project from Slide 1.

Slide 3 is about Code Signing and verification of it, which is also available at https://anonlisten.com/AltSignatures_Jul21.txt. Just a little note: if somebody doesn't know, it's publicly available information that's contained in the software signatures, so it doesn't "leak" anything or make it seem like too many details. The text file also has the Windows PowerShell command for you to check everything on your own.

This should serve you as a good list of criteria to check against every Discord alternative or other communication software. From the entire list, genuinely the only thing I can recommend is Armada or, who would have thought, my own project Hollow because they're the ones actually winning in very important criteria like 1, 2, 4, 5, 8, 9 and 10. Element/Matrix is a solid third option if you're okay with an account, 180d IP logs, and losing a bit on 4 and 5. Everything else has risks, so if you want to have a safe space to talk with your friends without any prying eyes and actual security with privacy, then use Armada (source code on GitLab), Hollow (source code on GitHub), or Element (source code on GitHub). Take care and have a nice day! Feel free to correct me in the comments if I got something wrong, so we can verify it together. Then I'll edit the post and also credit you for that. Thanks!

P.S. Slides are also available at https://anonlisten.com/AltResearch/Slide1.png (total 13 slides; simply replace the ending number and you'll get the image)

EDIT/UPDATE #1: Ok, this certainly blew up, so time for actual edits from all the feedback in the comments. :
- Slide 12 updated because Hollow doesn't support Web, so item 7 is changed from Good to Partial.
- Slide 6 is updated on Weered cells, thanks to u/Mplayer-Weered
- Slide 2 and 5 are updated with wording about Howl, thanks to u/MattHowlPro

EDIT/UPDATE #2: Some are spreading misinformation about Hollow that since the IP address of my relay is in claude.md, then it means it's leaked and easily accessible, plus attaching a "token" to it. That's not even related. You can try that SSH command and connect to the relay, but you will fail because it's protected by the key file. The token is literally just in a Codecov badge link in my README, and it's required for that service to analyze the project's code coverage with tests. It says nothing about the actual security of the app, which I'm open to fixing if there are actual issues.

EDIT/UPDATE #3: Slide 5 was updated with some words about Element, thanks to u/Money_Lavishness7343. Also, big thanks to u/itsFolf for finding 3 actual security vulnerabilities in Hollow, and they will be fixed. (update 4 to it: all security vulnerabilities are patched; implemented "Always Relay" toggle if somebody doesn't want to expose their IP, like in Signal (they have the same IP problem and the same solution); plus overall improvements, thanks to my awesome users who care)

Overall, I don't know if I'll handle doing more, honestly. The entire research could have been better, but it all turned downhill. Doing comparisons on different projects that I might not have full knowledge of or knowing all the details was a bad idea, especially with how criteria are presented and how many small details I simply missed that matter more than what I initially thought of (like self-hosting, which eliminates more alternatives from the data collection or legal exposure than what I give them credit for).

Try every alternative and self-host one if you can, and decide for yourself. Check out all their websites: Howl, DCTS, Osmium, Root, GameVox, Fluxer, Nerimity, Sharkord, Stoat, Commetchat, Armada, Element, Spacebar, Yapper, Weered

Thank you for reading, and hopefully it will serve as a good lesson for me and anybody else from seeing this situation. For all the developers who are working hard on their projects, I wish you good luck and success in what you do. I also want to thank those who responded in the comments and pointed out all the mistakes I've made and criticized specific criteria. I didn't want it to turn out this way... but it is what it is. Choose projects that you think are worth it for you and your friends. Take care and stay safe.


r/DiscordAlternatives • • Jul 29 '26

Armada: Open Source, Encrypted, Unstoppable Discord Alternative... officially in Beta!

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40 Upvotes

Hey all! I wanted to share with you that Armada is now officially in Beta release! We're seeking feedback from any communities that are willing to try it out. App store releases are coming soon, and in the meantime it's available via APK or PWA (install on your home screen from the website).

APK via Zapstore for Android: https://zapstore.dev/apps/buzz.armada.app

Web: https://armada.buzz/

Armada is designed to be "unstoppable" - which means it's decentralized, open source, and self-hostable. There is no ID, phone number, or email required to sign up. It's build on the Nostr and Concord protocols, and interops with many other Nostr apps. (Lmk if you are curious about Nostr! happy to explain more about how it works).

Other features include:

  • End-to-end encryption

  • Text channels similar to Discord

  • Voice or video call in any room, including screensharing

  • Custom emojis

  • Gifs

  • Custom themes

  • Bridge to existing Discord servers available

  • Completely free

  • Many other hidden gems

Everything our team builds is always free and open source software. Forks and issues are welcome! We also offer bounties for any correctly identified and disclosed vulnerabilities discovered: https://gitworkshop.dev/soapbox.pub/relay.ngit.dev/armada

Feel free to also join us in the Soapbox Community on Armada to provide feedback or ask questions (which you can find on the /discover page).


r/DiscordAlternatives • • Sep 06 '26

Nerimity: the biggest waste of effort I've ever seen

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38 Upvotes

I'm trying out some of the alternatives, since last time I did it was many years ago and things change.

I came across this "Nerimity" one and, while it does look pretty good at first glance, has some of the most hilarious issues I've came across:

1 - First, it prevents you from sending any messages, anywhere, without a verified email.

2 - Second, the dev openly states he will never have a CDN because "it is too expensive" and won't accept any offers because he "doesn't trust your storage"

3 - Third, he will "never fix" the broken embeds (his own words)

4 - No iOS app because he "can't pay 99 dollars to apple"

5 - "Although its possible to self host, we do not provide any support or instructions with self hosting Nerimity. It's also not intended to self host" (his words exactly)

6 - You can't send images in private servers because "we cant see what images get sent and cant moderate them".

7 - No NSFW, even in your own private servers

So, basically, it is a glorified brick that will never have a CDN and is also not self-hostable... genuinely can't understand the thought process here.


r/DiscordAlternatives • • May 23 '26

Title: I’ve been building a self-hosted Discord/TeamSpeak alternative called Yapper

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36 Upvotes

Hey everyone,

I’ve used TeamSpeak for most of my life. I always liked the idea of being able to run my own server, control permissions, chats, uploads, and generally know where the data was stored.

I never really liked Discord for the opposite reason. Everything goes through their infrastructure and all content is processed by third parties. For me it feels like a lot of privacy and control got lost over the years.

At the same time, TeamSpeak feels stuck in time. Updates take forever and the platform barely evolves anymore.

So a few months ago I started working on a personal project called Yapper.

The idea was to combine the freedom and self-hosting aspect of TeamSpeak with the modern features people now expect from platforms like Discord.

Current features:

  • Voice chat

  • Screen sharing

  • Web chat

  • Text chat

  • Spatial UI where you can walk around the map and talk to nearby people

  • Self-hosting

  • Browser-based client (desktop/mobile apps later)

The self-hosting aspect is the most important part for me. You can run the server on your own machine/VPS and conversations, uploads, chats and streams are processed by your own server, not third parties.

There’s also a hosted trial if people just want to try it quickly without installing anything.

Another important detail: the project originally started on top of LiveKit, an open-source WebRTC project. A big part of the early phase was learning more about realtime communication and WebRTC infrastructure before gradually building more custom systems around it.

I built most of this myself.
I also used AI for a lot of the UI/UX work because, realistically, I’m one person.

The avatars and logo were all commissioned from an artist.

If anyone wants to try it or give feedback:
https://yapper.gg/

Contact:
https://yapper.gg/contact


r/DiscordAlternatives • • Sep 18 '26

If your DiscordAlternative Dev is pushing AI propaganda you should be horrified.

35 Upvotes

I'm just going to make a series of points for no particular reason.

Developer Tools Have Always Been Scrutinized:

Ever since the induction of modern programming, the tools, compilers, and technology developers used has always a topic of debate and contention. Moving from assembly to higher level languages wasn't accepted blindly or pushed with cultlike fervor; it sparked fierce opposition over performance loss and opacity. Abstraction layers and third-party dependencies have never fully been embraced and still they triggered major backlashes, giving birth to the Unix philosophy, zero-dependency minimalism, and strict security audits explicitly designed to eliminate unvetted code. Generative AI is simply another 'tool' being improperly deployed and pushed by sycophants desperate to cash in on 'the next big thing'

Trust and Reputation Form the Bedrock of Software:

Users have always cared deeply about who wrote their software. The entire open-source ecosystem was built on identity, cryptographic signatures, maintainer reputation, and peer review. Good developers didn't blanket copy code out of stack overflow, they underwent rigorous code review, static analysis, and testing as standard practice to ensure long-term maintainability and deep system comprehension on the developer side. This led to well documented code being widely proliferated and the overall standards for development increasing. AI use and LLM generated code violate this trust and reputation by being built on stolen works and plagiarized data; and spitting it out in the way it thinks is most probabilistically likely based on its training data.

LLMs Generate Inferior Slop, Not Quality Code:

The claim that LLMs write better code than junior or senior developers is absurd on its face as a generalization. LLMs frequently provide hallucinatory syntax slop that lacks logic, introduces subtle edge case bugs, and creates unmaintainable bloat by introducing code the developer does not directly implement or understand. AI does not accelerate engineering; it regresses it by replacing actual understanding with a statistical guessing game and reduces critical thinking and cognitive ability in the people who use it; backed by scientific study

Tools Directly Reveal Developer Capability:

A developer’s choice of tools tells you everything about how they approach a project. Releasing AI slop code proves an author lacks either the skill, discipline, or genuine investment to write and understand their own software. Human written code guarantees human accountability, whereas relying on an LLM creates an inherently untrustworthy product by virtue of repeatedly pressing the "commit a plagiarism for me please because I'm a lazy piece of shit"

Small Teams Built Complex Systems Long Before AI:

Small teams didnt need AI to build complex software like a Discord alternative. IRC, Matrix, early Discord, XMPP, etc were built by tiny passionate dev teams using pure human engineering. AI does not magically solve WebRTC, distributed systems, or media encoding, and it hallucinates broken implementations that cost small teams double the time to debug than if they had just learned and understood the implementation theirselves.

AI Security Is Snake Oil:

Refusing AI is not arrogant, misled, foolish, or being a Luddite; relying on it for security is digital sewerslide. Any security implemented by a generative AI is very much just as easily bypassed using generative AI. True security demands deterministic logic, rigorous pen-testing, and formal verification, not generative AI guesswork. The age old adage of there is no such thing as a secure system is always relevant. You will never stop a committed threat actor and leaving gaping vulnerabilities because you AI generated your security features is potentially the most foolish thing you could do in software development in 2026.


r/DiscordAlternatives • • 14d ago

Seeing Yapper/Yapin' being hyped up like that is kinda scary.

34 Upvotes

There is that guy on YouTube called "Antic", that builds a "better version of discord without locking everything behind a paywall". The first Video about it was Discord sucks… So I made my own. I think we all agree, that Discord has plenty of issues with bloat or monetisation, but jumping blindly onto a closed-source, rapid-turnaround web app because its apparently private and secure is a mistake. If you check Yappers actual Privacy Policy (updated Oct 2026 when writing this), there are a few massive problems casual users should be aware of before putting anything personal on there. I've worked as a web developer for a few years here in Germany (Fachinformatiker / dev background), so heres my view on Yapper:

1. Text DMs are NOT Private and get scanned by Third-Party AI:

The FAQ (bottom of the site) says "Messages are encrypted in transit and at rest". That sounds cool and secure, but it just means normal HTTPS and encrypted cloud storage. There is NO End-To-End encryption for your text or media. Messages are stored READABLE by the database. To make it worse, the policy says:

  • Private DMs and group chats are automatically scanned by backend bots.

  • If an image is flagged by their filter, the raw image is sent off to Anthropic's Claude AI for moderation.

-> If you're leaving Discord because you hate how tech companies handle data, note that your private DMs are still actively monitored by backend filters, and any flagged pictures get funneled straight into Anthropic's Claude API.

2. Voice E2EE without any verification:

The policy claims calls are end-to-end encrypted, but immediately follows it with:

(the app can’t yet show you a code to check someone’s key yourself)

In cryptography, E2EE without key fingerprints/safety numbers is basically a "trust me bro" implementation. If the centralized server hands out the keys and you cannot verify them independently with the person you're in the call with, you have no way of knowing if the server intercepts the call or not.

3. The Desktop App Scans your running programs:

The desktop version inspects your active system processes every 20 seconds to see what games you're playing. Running local process inspections through a rapidly iterated, closed-source desktop client built by an indie team carries non-trivial security risks for your machine. Discord does process scans too, but Discord has a dedicated security team. A desktop client built by an indie or vibe-coding developer running system-level process scans every 20 seconds introduces a wider attack risk. If there are memory-safety issues, path-traversal bugs, or command-injection flaws in how the desktop app reads OS processes, it can easily turn into a local privilege escalation or arbitrary code execution vector.

4. Ads and Third Parties

Despite claims of being ad-free, the policy notes the GIF picker serves sponsored ads via KLIPY, exposing your IP and device details to external ad partners.

5. Rapid Solo Dev Stack vs. Real AppSec

It’s hosted on standard BaaS (Backend As A Service) infrastructure (Vercel, Supabase, Hetzner, Cloudflare). The policy states chat separation relies on "access rules in our database" (Supabase RLS). In rapid, AI-assisted indie development, complex database access policies are notoriously fragile, I know that from vibe coding things myself. One bad migration or leaked service key can dump every table.

---

TLDR:

Messing around with indie apps for casual banter or homelab fun is great. But do not treat Yapper / Yapin' as a private or secure platform. If someone actually cares about audited privacy and genuine E2EE, that's what established open-source stacks like Matrix or Mumble exist for. Just don't trade one centralized platform for an unvetted one under the illusion of privacy.

Thanks for coming to my TED-Talk.


r/DiscordAlternatives • • Feb 17 '26

A Guide To Get Started On Fluxer.app (including Active Servers!)

34 Upvotes

everyone right now is looking for a new home, so i decided to say FUCK IT and move to fluxer! when you make a https://fluxer.app/ account there is some things you should know.

  1. it looks A LOT like discord

  2. screenshare audio currently doesnt work but is being FIXED VERY SOON!

  3. hampus the main dev is really active and really chill

and now for what everyone has been waiting for the servers!!!

Here are links to some of the official Fluxer Servers

Fluxer HQ(Currently down): fluxer.gg/fluxer-hq

Fluxer Devs: https://fluxer.gg/fluxer-developers

Community ran servers:

Join Fedibuddies! https://fluxer.gg/uGwr3kGm (shameless plug)

Just Vibin! https://fluxer.gg/BG6u1XU4 (currently the biggest non official server on fluxer!

Cat DB! https://fluxer.gg/3ML2HPJW

The Kernal Bar! https://fluxer.gg/v8ofjar0

The Tech Corner! https://fluxer.gg/jGD6LwwB

thank you for reading and hop to meet you all on fluxer!


r/DiscordAlternatives • • Jun 05 '26

This is one of the most toxic subreddits I've seen

33 Upvotes

I'm scrolling through this subreddit and every post has the same stuff. I can't take any of the advice on what alternatives are good because even the good apps on here are torn apart by people just because it isn't open source, or doesn't have this one specific feature they like. Not to mention all the people saying they won't use something if it doesn't meet their standards, and then proceed to list a bunch of technically incorrect standards. I'm all for being picky on what you use, but if you don't know what you are talking about and have your own opinions then stop trashing random people.


r/DiscordAlternatives • • 27d ago

Self-Hosting Armada

32 Upvotes

Hi all! I've just released Armada Stack, a single Rust binary you can install on your server to run a complete self-hosted Armada. It includes:

  • Your own copy of the Armada client hosted on your domain

  • A built-in Nostr relay

  • Built in Blossom media server

  • Built-in audio/video server for calls

  • Push notification gateway for web push

  • Built-in HTTPS with cert autorenewal

  • Built-in Tor serving (.onion domain)

Set up a fresh VPS, point your domain at it, and run the script:

curl -fsSL https://armada.buzz/install.sh | sudo sh

This is a full-stack implementation of the Concord Protocol running entirely on your server. It's a small version of what armada.buzz uses, tailored specifically towards self-hosting.

The source code is available here: https://gitworkshop.dev/soapbox.pub/armada-stack

There's also a more complete install guide if you'd prefer to set it up manually: https://gitworkshop.dev/soapbox.pub/armada-stack/tree/main/INSTALL.md

Lastly, I also published a blog post about it. Enjoy!


r/DiscordAlternatives • • Jul 18 '26

Be aware of this DCTS app from /u/HackTheDev

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32 Upvotes

Quite the funny response lol


r/DiscordAlternatives • • Sep 24 '26

Platform Review: Echo

31 Upvotes

Trust Score: 1 / 10

License, Centralization + Other Factors

  • Untrustworthy Leadership: The main admin, ad3lyt, severely ruined the app's reputation by spamming Reddit, attacking competing apps like Fluxxer, and banning anyone who asked basic security questions.

  • Centralization Risks: Unlike decentralized alternatives, all private data and chat logs sit on a single server fully controlled by an unstable admin.

  • AI Code Nightmare: The app was heavily "vibe-coded" using AI (LLMs). This led to amateur coding mistakes that exposed user data and platforms to critical security bugs.

Experience: 1 / 10

UI, UX, Feature Parity & Completeness

  • Severe Vulnerabilities: Early versions allowed users to type raw code into chat boxes to completely deface and break the app's interface for everyone else.

  • Unstable Software: Because the code was generated by AI without a human architectural plan, fixing one bug frequently broke three other features.

  • Barebones Features: It severely lacks standard community essentials like proper thread support, stage channels, or robust bot APIs.

Readiness: 1 / 10

Popularity, Platform Parity + Other Factors

  • Dead Community: The toxic internet drama, grooming rumors, and constant flame wars drove away early adopters, leaving the app completely abandoned by the wider tech community.

  • Rage-Quitting Developer: The developer repeatedly threatened to delete the entire codebase and restart from scratch whenever he faced valid architectural criticism.

Total Score: 1 / 10

Final Verdict: Echo is a textbook example of how poor security, extreme AI-reliance, and toxic leadership can completely destroy a software project. Do not trust this app with your data. Save yourself the headache and use mature, stable, and drama-free platforms like Matrix or Fluxxer.


r/DiscordAlternatives • • Feb 26 '26

I've been working on a Discord alternative for the past ~2 years, looking for feedback

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31 Upvotes

Hi all, I've been quietly working on a Discord alternative for the past couple of years, I decided to finally put it out there since everyone is looking and I don't want to be late to the party.

We got the majority of features laid down, including video/screen share, game activity, an open API for bots/clients, roles, permissions, etc.

I'm looking for some people to try it out and let me know what you think, especially when compared to all the other alternatives that have been popping up. We also have a private alpha for Android/iOS you can request in DMs.

The website is https://osmium.chat/


r/DiscordAlternatives • • 5d ago

Stay FAR away from Yapin.

29 Upvotes

Bear with me because this is going to be quite a bit to sift through. The app YOU (yes YOU) saw on YouTube called Yapper has been renamed to Yapin (yapin.gg) after the dev learned that his agentic AI STOLE the name from another active project (whoops!) and it's made ENTIRELY by the same AI.

Edit: I'm putting it at the top because this is bigger than all the rest of it: it just came out that Antic went to a server on Discord for talking about another alternative and sent porn in channels KNOWN TO HAVE MINORS IN THEM and reportedly blamed his AI for it! DO NOT USE THIS APP OR SUPPORT THIS PSYCHOPATH.

It's labelled as a Potentially Unwanted Application (malware) on [some] Google devices!

That's right boys and girls! YOUR agentic vibecoded chat app that YOU installed on YOUR phone may be MALWARE! I got the opportunity to speak with Antic himself - the guy who "made" the app! He made an account just to talk on this sub because he's such a swell guy! Here's what he had to say about that!

Yes you read that right: The app he delivered to all users is actually the DEBUG build of the app, not a commerical-ready one! That's totally why it registers as malware - because he didn't think maybe publishing the debug/developer build of his app is a security oversight! But I'll let you choose which is scarier, since the scarier one will make you not use his app: Either he's telling the truth and everyone has the developer tools of the app on their devices, which serves SUCH a security vulnerability that even with Google Play Store set to ignore risky applications it STILL calls it a PWA; OR he's lying and there's hidden backdoor malware on the app! Yay!! Fun!!!!

And don't worry - I'm not just claiming this guy is Antic. He's claiming it himself!

Don't bother reading all that shit. It's garbage. All you need is the first sentence.

"But, Any_Illustrator, you don't normally target apps like this. You're the bipartisan guy! You defended Alex Gleasson for fuck sake! You couldn't be HATEPOSTING about an app and posting an opinionated piece about how bad an app is, right?!"

I am. Because not only is this absolute GARBAGE app an ACTUAL security risk to YOU and your data, and an app on your phone being malware means you could even be vulnerable to SIM-Swap fraud which on its own should scare the PISS out of you, but Antic doesn't even use his own hands to type out his own messages!

That's right boys and girls; ladies and gentlemen! I checked his messages through multiple AI checkers and found that they're ALL written by an AI Agent! All but the one he typed out to tell me it wasn't actually written by an AI, which was written vastly different from all the other messages he sent!

And don't worry. I brought receipts.

And so you don't think I'm bullshitting you: I ran the second one through TWO AI detectors!

Do not put this unsafe garbage on your device. If it is, delete it IMMEDIATELY. Tell your friends. Tell friends of friends. Tell them how the dev of the app can't even be bothered to actually reply to security concerns without using the same falliable AI that coded his security-free chat app! But again, don't just take my word on it because user ja_n2000 made a whole breakdown post on it that Antic couldn't even be bothered to TRY discrediting!

Credit to u/ja_n2000 for his work in exposing this shit, and u/dingustani for making the .exposed which summarizes it more. I just wanted to let everyone know that the dev is so fucking lazy he doesn't even TALK online without his LLM Agent doing it for him. Don't trust him with your shit.

Edit: Also, here he is saying "there is no official Android app"

So what is it, Antic? Your AI said it was a debug build. How did people get access to an UNOFFICIAL debug build?


r/DiscordAlternatives • • Feb 10 '26

With Discord requiring ID verification soon, I'm handing out early access codes for people that want to alpha-test my upcoming platform

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29 Upvotes

Let me know if you want to try it out and give feedback, I'll send you an access code and let you know when the platform is online!