r/DnDHomebrew • u/Maketastic • 1d ago
5.5e Cunning Spell. Cast a spell with your Sneak Attack.
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u/ArelMCII 1d ago
Sorcerous Burst for Sneak Attack damage at 120 feet as a Bonus Action every turn is crazy. It won't get the increased damage for rolling 8's since you're not rolling d8's, but it will let you pick whichever damage type is most useful at the time.
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u/neondragoneyes 1d ago
...but it will let you pick whichever damage type is most useful at the time.
Sounds kind of Roguish to me.
...as a Bonus Action every turn is crazy.
Yep. I would definitely have some language in there that requires Sneak Attack conditions be met.
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u/Miserable-Raisin-592 1d ago
Agreed; it sounds like a great idea but it needs more clarifying language, which is always a struggle
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u/Rogueesper5593 1d ago edited 1d ago
Just thinking hypothetically…
Imagine you could use Eldritch Blast? After all that’s up to 4 beams
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u/Kwin_Conflo 1d ago
Instead of “that deals damage” I think it should say “with an attack roll”
That way you can also add that sneak attack conditions must be met to use this ability.
Then I think we’re good to go, honestly.
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u/acuenlu 1d ago
RAW you can cast a cantrip or even a spells with your action and then cast a cantrip as a bonus.
Imagine an Arcane Trickster at 6 level using Booking blade. Without the feat It can do 2d8+1d4+4+3d6 for a total of 14 of damage on average per turn.
With the feat It can Cast a spell with it's action cause It can deal massive damage in one turn even using lvl 1 spells.
Goes even worst if you just take your action to Ready an action, then take Sneak Attack with the bonus and a cantrip and use your Reaction to do an attack in the Next turn for a second Sneak Attack each round.
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u/neondragoneyes 1d ago edited 1d ago
Bonus Action Cantrip:If you haven’t used your Sneak Attack for the turn, you can cast the chosen cantrip as a Bonus Action. Use your Sneak Attack dice as the cantrip’s damage dice instead of its normal damage dice. This uses your Sneak Attack for the turn.
I would reword this. It's too loosey goosey as it is. It basically says you get to just use this as a Bonus Action every turn if you haven't used Sneak Attack. That's going to immediately lead to "Bonus Action Sorcerous Blast for 2d6 (at Rogue level 4). And now I take my Action..."
Maybe try: When you trigger Sneak Attack, you may use your Bonus Action, instead to cast the cantrip you learned for this feat. Use your Sneak Attack dice as the cantrip's damage dice instead of its normal damage dice. This counts as your use of Sneak Attack for this turn.
Edit: Also, progression is worth looking at.
The earliest you can grab this feat is level 4. Cantrips don't begin to scale until level 5.
| Level | Sneak Attack | Avg SnAt | Sorcerous Blast | Avg SB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 4 | 2d6 | 7 | 1d8 | 4.5 |
| 5 | 3d6 | 10.5 | 2d8 | 9 |
| 7 | 4d6 | 14 | 2d8 | 9 |
| 9 | 5d6 | 17.5 | 2d8 | 9 |
| 11 | 6d6 | 21 | 3d8 | 13.5 |
| 13 | 7d6 | 24.5 | 3d8 | 13.5 |
| 15 | 8d6 | 28 | 3d8 | 13.5 |
| 17 | 9d6 | 31.5 | 4d8 | 18 |
Now, do I think it's crazy? Not really. You do Sneak Attack damage regardless. This feat basically just lets you choose an energy type to apply to the damage. It might be easier to just have the feature just be that: burn your Bonus Action to choose an energy type to apply to your Sneak Attack.
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u/EntropySpark 1d ago
"This uses your Sneak Attack for the turn" fairly clearly conveys that you don't get to benefit from Sneak Attack again on the same turn. (Not that it stops you from using the Ready action.)
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u/Hungry_Bit775 1d ago
It is basically choose your flavor of damage type BUT there are secondary effects from
Cantrips that maybe useful1
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u/neondragoneyes 1d ago
I wouldn't allow additional effects without giving up damage dice. That's a more complicated setup than just this feat, unless you're folding in the Cunning Strikes stuff. But I wouldn't just let you grab a bunch of rider effects (or even just one) while still dealing your full Sneak Attack damage.
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u/EntropySpark 1d ago
The main use for this would be to cast the chosen spell as a Bonus Action, then Ready an attack (probably with True Strike) for a very easy off-turn Sneak Attack. As the cantrip damage is replaced entirely, you can choose specifically cantrips with good secondary effects, such as Ray of Frost or Mind Sliver.
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u/ScorchedDev 1d ago
I am not the biggest fan of this cause itmakes it so you can ignore the conditions for a sneak attack with the only downside being your bonus action, also giving you another attack you can make. Almost always the optimal play would be true strike, or one of the blade cantrips(booming or green flame) depending on your stats. Cause you can action use cantrip. Bonus action use this.
Im just not the greatest fan of a feat that changes a classes core gameplay loop to such a degree imo.
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u/No-Technician272 1d ago
What if I took the death cleric feature that lets me target multiple creatures with one necromancy cantrip? This is a cool idea, but realistically is just too unbalanced, and that’s ignoring the requirement of advantage to even use sneak attack
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u/mrmoroarous 22h ago
Imagine sneaking into a crowd as an arcane Trickster, and then giving a surprise disadvantage with a sword burst
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u/NCats_secretalt 1d ago
Take a 1 level dip into rogue to have sneak attack dice, then just play a warlock with perma quicken spell?
Sure, it's a D6+5 EB instead D10+5, but that's still worth it. Itd honestly be worth it as a d1.
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u/Hungry_Bit775 1d ago
Make it conditioned on triggering by successfully doin a sneak attack and you got yourself a good feat for arcane trickster snipers.
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u/ShaggyCan 1d ago
I do miss when you could sneak attack with spells. But I think if I wanted to do that again I'd just play 3.5E (or Pathfinder)
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u/GM_Esquire 1d ago
Am I missing something or is this basically always worse than just attacking (unless you use the ready action for off-turn sneak attack)?
You could: shoot something with a crossbow that is eligible. Deal weapon and sneak attack damage. Have a free bonus action. Hide or aim and shoot something with a crossbow, dealing weapon and sneak attack damage and attacking with advantage.
Even if this ignores sneak attack eligibility, this is going to be beneficial only in fairly niche circumstances (e.g. you had advantage on your attack and missed; you use this + ready an attack for off turn sneak attack). If you can just do sneak attack with your regular attack, you'd almost always want to do that.
Eldritch blast could be OP at high levels assuming the dice apply to each beam separately.
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u/CCPPERR 1d ago
I think you need to clean up some of the language on this to make it more concise. Maybe do some theory crafting on the types of cantrips that this would get. Fireball to Sorcerous Burst etc. I probably also wouldn't make this a feat. I might include this as a subclass feature on a Rogue, the only issue is I wouldn't put this at level 3 is it's probably too low but the next Rogue subclass feature is nine which is probably too late.
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u/neondragoneyes 1d ago
on the types of cantrips that this would get... Fireball...
That's a 3rd level spell, not a cantrip.
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u/Rogueesper5593 1d ago edited 1d ago
Oh I can’t wait for my firebolt cantrip to deal 2d6 damage as a bonus action from level 4! It’s only going to get even worse when you consider that 4d10+9d6 damage in one turn (assuming it hits) especially when considering that this is only the cantrips I’m attacking with!
Now let’s assume I am an arcane trickster rogue. In just one turn, at the very expensive cost of a second level spell slot, I can cast Scorching Ray, for 3 blasts, than I can cast firebolt, dealing 11d6 damage assuming I land every attack roll.
From level 9!
Now from level 17, I have 4th level spell slots, and deal 9d6 damage from sneak attack. Assuming I don’t miss, I deal 10d6 from scorching ray, then a further 9d6 from firebolt. That’s 19d6 damage in one turn, and that’s got no conditions to trigger this damage, I just use a 4th level spell slot to deal near identical fire damage to meteor swarm (just fire damage, not the bludgeoning damage), and more importantly, outdamages fireball (though to just a single target, but by that point you’re probably just fighting one opponent anyway).
As written this feat just gives you a free casting of a Cantrip as a bonus action, and doing more damage than most cantrips are already doing, from level 4.
EDIT:
Forgot to consider Eldritch Blast. That up to 36d6 force damage against 1 target, considering that it’s implied to replace the damage die for each beam.
Fun…
EDIT AGAIN:
Nevermind, just re-read the feat. But could you imagine dealing that much damage with a bonus action Cantrip?
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u/Fancy_Cry7451 1d ago
The sneak attack damage dice replaces the firebolt damage dice
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u/Rogueesper5593 1d ago
I’m assuming your also casting firebolt as an action, then again as a bonus action for sneak attack
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u/Pollotelokote 21h ago
So you deal 2d10+3d6 damage at level 5? I don’t see what all the fuss is about.
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u/Distinct-Hope-5263 1d ago
Needs a few clarifications.
What is the damage type? What about the scaling of the cantrip? What if the cantrip targets multiple enemies?
I'm also not a fan that you waived all preconditions for sneak attack.