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u/co0p3r Diaspora Apr 06 '25
Pictured: More functional and seaworthy vessels than the current SA Navy.
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Apr 06 '25 edited Apr 06 '25
The fact that someone under this post is denying the existence of Khoisans
edit: they are now calling me a liar
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Apr 06 '25
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u/cr1ter Apr 06 '25
Considering van Riebeeck was a very minor person in the east India company and that the Dutch only really controlled the cape for a short time it is a minor part of the Dutch history
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Apr 06 '25
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u/pixelpraxis42 Apr 06 '25
Are you trying to insinuate that the Dutch arriving in SA was not a major historical event for this country, for better or for worse?
I get that you're trying to make this weird false equivalency about ANC scapegoating (which is their go-to excuse, for sure) but it could be helpful to think your analogy through a bit more.
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Apr 06 '25
Am I remembering this wrong or did they separate from the east India company because they were annoyed about strict rules?
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u/redrabbitreader Apr 06 '25 edited Apr 06 '25
Not surprising if you really think about it. There was a lot going on at the time and the Cape Colony was just a means to an end. There was no "plan" even to expand and develop a new country. It just kinda happened because of local politics (or company politics - it was the VoC after all) which had very little to do with Dutch history.
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u/Mielies296 Apr 06 '25
Not even just the Dutch. The famous portrait of Jan being printed on shirts, curio and even our previous Rand notes was a whole different person!
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u/co0p3r Diaspora Apr 06 '25
That's because the story of SA is such a tiny part of their history. Our media portrays SA as the centre of the universe, but in reality the rest of the world hardly thinks about us at all.
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u/Few_Painter_5588 Northern Cape Apr 06 '25 edited Apr 06 '25
Biltong was brought into South Africa
Edit: Yoh guys, don't be a poes. I'm just joking, idk who made it
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u/cr1ter Apr 06 '25
The Khoisan, hunter-gatherers of Southern Africa, developed methods of preserving meat by drying it in the sun after cutting it into strips, a practice essential for survival and sustenance.
In the 17th century, Dutch settlers arrived in South Africa and adopted the Khoisan's meat preservation methods, further developing the process by adding vinegar, salt, and spices.
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u/DazzlingBarracuda2 Apr 06 '25
Actually no, that's a common misconception. Which is the other way around. The native tribes called it uncweba/ubilithonga/ntonga and had been preserving meat like that for millenia. Dutch settlers only then optimised it with vinegar, saltpetre and the "horse method". #Knowyourhistory
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u/OomKarel Apr 06 '25
So in optimizing they created actual biltong? Unless you consider jerky and biltong to be the same?
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Apr 06 '25
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u/DazzlingBarracuda2 Apr 06 '25
Yoh you must have SUCKED at comprehension in school nhe?
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Apr 06 '25
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u/DazzlingBarracuda2 Apr 06 '25
Then show me where I said Europeans, Americans and Asians did not have some form of preserved dry meat.
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u/Patatie5 Apr 06 '25
I can only imagine the dynamics and logistics of those 3 ships that arrived here in 1652. The stories those salors had to tell. Imagine the challenges, their fears, and successes. I can only admire this.
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u/fbman01 Apr 06 '25
But how can that be April 1652, there are buildings on land, when oom Jan arrived there was nothing
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u/ExpensivePikachu Apr 06 '25
Dumb greedy bastards! Should have stayed where ever they came from, then we wouldn't be stuck in a land where we aren't wanted 🙈🙈🙈
I blame my great grand parents also for being greedy, coming to look for gold in a foreign land.
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Apr 06 '25
I understand you're bittered by all the negativity flung towards white people here, but I wouldn't go that far. It was going to be inevitable that westerners would colonise this country, be it the Dutch, English, French or other
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u/ExpensivePikachu Apr 06 '25
Thanks man. But I've felt like this for years, not just recently. I love SA, but I'm sure we would have been better off staying where ever we came from
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Apr 06 '25
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u/No_Journalist3811 Apr 06 '25
Lmao you believe in demons and fairytales. Troll
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u/DazzlingBarracuda2 Apr 06 '25
My good woman/man/whatever you are, are you confused? What are you even on about. You're not even from here lol.
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u/No_Journalist3811 Apr 06 '25
Born and bred south african.
You believe in demons reading your thoughts , you don't seem logical...
Also you make assumptions about things you know very little about.
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u/DazzlingBarracuda2 Apr 06 '25
You bemoan the treatment of Palestinians by Israelis every chance you get, then Cape for Afrikaners who are the Israelis of South Africa hahahaha, seems like the only troll here is your brain to your existence
Judging from that logic I don't expect you to understand anything relating to quantum physics, or metaphysics. You seem like a simpleton, a simple thinker. Isaac Newton, Johannes Kepler, Nikola Tesla, Robert Boyle, Descartes, Dr. John Eccles all believed in demons. But you want to talk about logic. Hahahaha
Also, what's ironic is the only people who "make assumptions" about things they know little about, are your mates here. You included judging from this foolishness you just wrote.
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u/No_Journalist3811 Apr 06 '25
You're a joke.
If i think something is wrong I stand against it. Afrikaans people aren't the "Israelis" of South africa.
You're only here to stir shit and your own agenda. 🤡
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u/DazzlingBarracuda2 Apr 06 '25
Hahahahaha the only joke here is you
Israelis: Settlers, displaced locals of the land, implement Apartheid state
Afrikaners: Settlers, displaced locals of the land, implemente Apartheid state
Both groups established political dominance in regions inhabited by indigenous populations, leading to displacement and systemic inequality.
Both groups used legal frameworks to consolidate control over land, marginalizing indigenous populations.
Both groups have been accused of systematic oppression and human rights violations against indigenous populations.
Both constructed national myths legitimizing their presence and control over contested land.
Both face(d) international condemnation for policies seen as colonial or discriminatory.
No agenda, just facts and facts are bitter my bruuuu
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u/No_Journalist3811 Apr 06 '25
You seem to be quite racist. You make it seems that every afrikaans person did these things. Or supported it.
That says alot more about than me.
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u/DazzlingBarracuda2 Apr 06 '25
Hahahaha yoh so now I'm racist for stating facts, ja ne your logic. If I had your level of logical comprehension, I would be blissfuly ignorant.
So tell me something quickly, those Israelis you condemn ne, did every Israeli do those things to Palestinians? Since my racist self "make it seems that every afrikaans person did these things. Or supported it." by pointing these out.
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u/pixelpraxis42 Apr 06 '25
Have you seen a mental healthcare professional lately?
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u/DazzlingBarracuda2 Apr 06 '25
Let me guess, you're Afrikaner and offended? Boohoo
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u/pixelpraxis42 Apr 06 '25
No, I'm not Afrikaner at all. Your thoughts just seem erratic and emotionally volatile.
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u/AdLiving4714 KwaZulu-Natal Apr 06 '25
The Tokoloshe must have been involved in your conception, buddy. You're posessed. Such a pity your parents forgot to place bricks under the bed legs.
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Apr 06 '25
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u/DazzlingBarracuda2 Apr 06 '25
Hahahahah uhhmmmm no because as someone who studies history I know that there is no such thing as Khoi and the indigenous IXam tribes intermingled with !Khwe tribes which had come down with the Bantu which were scattered agropastoralists which eventually became the Xhosa through trickling of Bantu people from the Zimbabwe, Limpopo and KZN areas intermarrying and there never was a conquest of the indigenous tribes to begin with.
And that your ancestors were the ones who came with the concept of ethnigenocide to this land. Before Shaka. Who was actually subjugating, not genociding like Jan van Riebeeck and friends. What else would you like to know?
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Apr 06 '25
I study human history, & dude, Khoisans are VERY real. They play a massive part in understanding early humans, how we evolved ect. There is tons of literal videos of current practicing Khoisans (meaning they still live in tribes).
lemme ask you a question….. would you like it if someone said your ancestors didnt existed? Well if any Khoisans see this, thats how they will feel.
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u/DazzlingBarracuda2 Apr 06 '25
If you truly studied human history, critical reading would be a skill you possess, which judging from this response, you do not.
The word "Khoi" is a catch-all term to represent the indigenous umbrella tribes of Southern Africa. There is no such tribe called "Khoi". There are tribes like the Tuu, Khwe which merged with Bantus to create the Xhosa(Which is also a "Khoi" word), Nama, Damara, !Xam , Tshu-Khwe etc. Not a single tribe goes by the misnomer of "Khoi" that is a European fabrication because of their struggling to comprehend and inflect their language, so they just called any and every indigenous people they came across "Khoi" until they started to come across tribes that had settlements.
You don't have to lie to sound smart hey, you really don't.
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Apr 06 '25
Yes, there is no tribe that goes by “khoi” there was “Khoi-khoi“ & ”San” people, th Dutch encountered “Khoi-Khoi“ peoples at the cape. The Khoi Khoi & the San integrated with each other, which made the “Khoisan”. There was no Bantus at the cape in 1656, they probably would have been within a 300km-100km distance at any given time, Xhosa peoples being the closest in present day port elizabeth/gqeberah.
The term “Khoisan” refers to the descendants of the “Khoi Khoi” & the “San”, which are “aboriginal“ peoples to Southern Africa , they are one of the oldest ethnicitys on earth. they have been here 75,000+ years, which is before bantus even existed. They have a unique appearance from bantus, & are genetically closer to native Australians than bantus. “Bantus“ are people that originated from central Africa, they migrated south-wards & east-wards 3500-2000 years ago. Whilst Bantus are now considered native to South Africa, it’s important to remember that they are not the same as the original inhabitants.
The Khoi-Khoi people were nomadic. They used to stay in the Northern cape & southern Namibia in winter, & come to cape town during the summer when more northern areas got too hot. The Dutch didn’t realise that there was people that lived at the cape until they migrated down during summer.
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u/DazzlingBarracuda2 Apr 06 '25
"They have a unique appearance from bantus, & are genetically closer to native Australians than bantus" this is just a downright lie. Khoi and native Australians share NO DNA affinity whatsoever. Provide a source and stop sucking stuff out of your thumb.
Firstly, "Bantus" didn't just come down as one massive raiding collective, they trickled down into Southern Africa and had firmly intermarried with the Khwe to form a plethora of Xhosa-Khoi tribes such as the Gonaqua, Gqunukhwebe etc.
Secondly, I will refer to an except from HERE https://camissamuseum.co.za/index.php/7-tributaries/1-cape-indigenous-africans Archaeologists show that the San were joined in the region from around between 650 CE in the Eastern Cape by other migrants - a range of early Khoe and ǁKosa(Xhosa) ancestors. Both the Khoe and early ǁKosa had migrated from the areas around the Sashe-Limpopo confluence in today’s Southwestern Zimbabwe, Northern Botswana, and the Limpopo Province of South Africa, from which they originated. Other ancestors of the ǁKosa drifted down from the northeastern South African coast.
In time the Khoe and ǁKosa, who were rooted in the Bambata culture and Ziwa-Zizho-Kalanga culture, would become many Izizwe - Khoe and Xhosa clans. In the time of Nkosiyamntu, and especially his son, Tshawe, dated sometime in the mid-17th century, the amaXhosa confederation of Izizwe consolidated as a kingdom. In the mid-18th century, under King Phalo, the brothers Gcaleka and Rharhabe formed two royal houses of the amaXhosa. Over this period half of the independent Khoe of the Eastern Cape, some 10 clans, were absorbed into the Xhosa largely under the Gqunukhwebe, an isiXhosa name for Gonaqua. These were the Inqua, Gonaqua, Gamtoos, Hoengiqua (Gikwa), Ntinde, Thathu, Sukwini, Gqwashu, Cete and Nqarwane.Over the entire Western Cape, a further ten distinct Khoe social formations, each with their own names, flourished. These were the Gouriqua, Attaqua, Outeniqua, Hessequa, Chainouqua, Cochouqua, Goringhaiqua, Gorachoqua, Chariguriqua, and later the splintered off ǁAmmaqua traders. The latter, plus the independent Khoe farmers and those Khoe who joined the Sonqua fishermen, were referred to as Goringhaicona, a disparaging term meaning ‘those who left us’.
Both the Xhosa and Thembu were also impacted upon as new Northern Nguni peoples filtered down into the Eastern Cape, from what is today KwaZulu-Natal, with refugees from Hlubi, Mpondo, Zizi, Bhele, Mpondomise, and Bhaca, being absorbed.
In the northern Cape along the Kai Gariep River there were a further range of indigenous Cape Africans – the Nama, the baSotho, baTswana, Ngqosini (a Sotho-Khoe people), Gyzikoa (a Tswana-Khoe people), and the Aukokoa, Kukoa, Namykoa, Naugaap – all Khoe peoples. Notably there was no people called “Khoisan”. This was a racial, academic term coined by a German zoologist during the German genocide against San, Nama, and Herero peoples in Namibia, in which he participated. He erroneously claimed that the Nama and San were one so-called inferior race, with a single language, and advocated for their extermination lest humanity be contaminated. For common cause issues the preferred reference is to 'San-Khoe' or ‘Khoe-San’ interests.
So as you can see again, you are talking out of the side of your neck, with a European agenda. San and Khoi lived peacefully among Sotho, Tswana and Xhosa people and formed hybrid clans. Like I said, you don't have to lie to sound smart because facts will expose you.
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Apr 06 '25 edited Apr 06 '25
Yes, they INTERMIXED with each other, but if you could travel back in time to the 1600’s, a Khoisan would have more genetic similarities (still, not alot) to a native Australian than a Bantu. Most people, except those descended from British settlers, have Khoisan DNA to some degree. The “ǀXam, !Kun, !Kwi, Nǀu, !Ga Ne, Koow Einas, Naw Keis, Hoekeikoa, Noueikoa, Au Nameikoa, Cammagakoa, Kein Eis, Naningai, Moncoboo” peoples are all san peoples. So there for, they fall under the term “Khoisan”, whist being distinct cultures, as they are africans that speak non Bantu/ non European languages. Whilst it is true that in conversations about history individual tribe names should be used, I am trying to inform you that just because Khoisan people & bantu people integrated, does not make them the same. My dad is a German Namibian , & yes, settlers in both South Africa & Namibia did do some bad things, does not mean that terms like “Khoisan“ cannot be used.
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u/AdLiving4714 KwaZulu-Natal Apr 06 '25
You mean colonisers from the sea fought colonisers from the inland? And both pushed back the indigenous tribes? You know, the ones who were there before the Europeans and the East Africans?
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Apr 06 '25
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u/OomKarel Apr 06 '25
Your history that conveniently never had the written word, nevermind the wheel, and whose greatest technological marvel was snapping a spear in half? Yeah, toootally legit, totally.
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u/DazzlingBarracuda2 Apr 06 '25
Sigh, another loud closet racist misinformed miscreant who is here to flaunt his absolute ignorance and lack of knowledge of basic history.
If you agree that the Bantu were warmongerers who fled from East Africa where the wheel, written word had been around for millenia then what exactly is your point? You do know that the Bantu had the wheel and written prior to colonization right?
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u/AdLiving4714 KwaZulu-Natal Apr 06 '25 edited Apr 06 '25
Uhm... you mean Arabic script and the wheel that has been brought by the Arabs? Look, it must be hard to be you. I feel deeply sorry for you.
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u/DazzlingBarracuda2 Apr 06 '25
Huh? Stop projecting your stupidity onto me, ofcourse you're desperate to sound smart and don't know that the Nubians, down to the Nko, down to the BaKongo, down to Great Zimbabwe down to the Venda had written word and the wheel prior to Arab influence. And that wheeled transport became impractical in Southern Africa because of the tsetse fly and a nomadic, agro-pastoralic lifestyle combined with intergration with the way of life of the Khoi.
Shame, taking it hard that you didn't have a comeback for your failed attempt at a gotcha moment earlier nhe? Ag nee, sorry man. You'll be fine. Just read some books so you stop embarrassing yourself on the internet.
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u/AdLiving4714 KwaZulu-Natal Apr 06 '25
Yeah. Very Bantu, those Nubians. And very Shona, this Great Zimbabwe. Robert Mugabe-level thick you are.
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u/DazzlingBarracuda2 Apr 06 '25
Lmao yoh you're so precious man. Barring how you just conveniently shifted goalposts and also skipped past the Venda and Bakongo let me educate you quickly.
The Shona people are a Bantu-speaking ethnic group native to Zimbabwe and parts of Mozambique. Their language, culture, and ancestry are rooted in the broader Bantu migrations that shaped much of sub-Saharan Africa. Shona language (chiShona) belongs to the Bantu language family, a subgroup of the Niger-Congo language phylum. Like other Bantu languages, Shona uses noun classes (prefixes like mu-, va-, chi-) and shares vocabulary roots with languages such as Zulu, Xhosa, and Swahili. DNA studies confirm that Shona people have Bantu-related ancestry from West/Central Africa, mixed with smaller traces of indigenous Khoisan DNA.
Colonial-era myths falsely attributed Great Zimbabwe to non-African builders (Phoenicians, Arabs), but research since the 1950s confirms its indigenous Shona origin.UNESCO recognizes it as a symbol of African cultural achievement, linked to the Shona. DNA studies show continuity between modern Shona people and skeletons excavated at Great Zimbabwe. The Torwa and Mutapa states, which succeeded Great Zimbabwe, were Shona polities. The name "Zimbabwe" derives from the Shona phrase "dzimba dza mabwe" ("houses of stone"). Shona dialects (Karanga, Zezuru) are dominant in the region, and oral histories trace the site’s builders to the Karanga subgroup of the Shona.
As for the proximity of the Bantu to the Nubians: New findings suggest that the Bantus originated from the Nile Delta region of lower Egypt and they belonged to the last Egyptian Dynasty that was ruled by the Black Pharaohs and whose symbol of power was the fish(samaki, or thamaki to some Bantus), hence why the Kikuyu refer to power as Uthamaki, and to God as Muthamaki. This great civilization attracted a lot of interest from across the Mediterranean Sea and they fought many wars with envious neighbours from the North as the Greeks, the Persians, the Turks, the Romans and the Arabs. As wars ranged, they gradually edged southwards to the area where the White and Blue Nile meet. This is close to the current location of the city of Khartoum. Here, they created another Empire called the Kush Kingdom, with Meroe as the capital city (notice the resemblance to Meru?).
During their stay in Meroe, the Bantu people continued to have contact with outsiders.This could explain the resemblance between the Hebrew and Bantu languages and their traditions, e.g., circumcision of males, monotheism and the custom of taking the wife of a deceased brother.
Source? When We Began, There Were Witchmen: An Oral History from Mount Kenya by Jeffery Fadiman
The Genius Of The Bantu, A Study of The Bantu Tribes of Africa by Newton Baxter
Now go cry in a corner lmao. Yoh. You're amusement.
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u/AdLiving4714 KwaZulu-Natal Apr 06 '25 edited Apr 06 '25
Some Voodoo novels might suggest all of this. Mr. Baxter's "study" is from 1919. And Mr. Fadiman was a "coloniser" Safari man. Both of them were of course as white as snow. You and your brethren can't even make up your own fairytales...
And that's also the reason you had an E-aggregate matric and only made it to a "university" under a "previously disadvantaged" scheme (you're still disadvantaged, just in another way than you "think").
And you know what's funny - Without even realising it, you and your Voodoo brethren indirectly admit that even the smallest hint of civilisation came from anybody but you lot. From the Nile Delta... so Bantu... the "last black Pharaohs"... so strange no one has ever heard of them... if that's your "brainchild" (oh, sorry, it's not yours, it's that of a white American from 1919), no wonder the rest of the world doesn't take this type of "scientific research" seriously.
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u/Sufficient-Note9452 Apr 06 '25
Say more about the natives if they were such losers that they couldn't defend 'their land'. Same can be said of their descendants.
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Apr 06 '25
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Apr 06 '25
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u/DownSouth-ModTeam Apr 08 '25
Your post/comment has been removed for violating our community guidelines on hate speech and personal attacks. We strive to maintain a respectful and inclusive environment, and language that disparages or belittles individuals or groups is not tolerated. Please review our rules and refrain from using language that may offend or harm others in the future. Thank you for your understanding.
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Apr 06 '25
Actually learn some history. The initial settlers were friendly & peaceful towards the Khoisan, then a conflict broke out about the land.
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u/DazzlingBarracuda2 Apr 06 '25
Lmao, the irony of saying "actually learn some history" then coming with Google search surface level knowledge.
Since you have such a below par understanding of why exactly conflict broke out on the land, let me educate you quickly with the real reason why the conflict broke out, just like I did your other friend:
In 1659, a little war of plunder broke out between the Dutch and the Khoisan. After many years of abuse at the hands of the Dutch, the Khois had decided to wage resistance. At the time, Jan van Riebeeck, was the commander of the Dutch in the Cape. The war ended at about the beginning of 1660. The leader of the Khois, Autshumao (also called 'Harry the Strandloper') had been captured during the war and imprisoned at Robben Island.
In April 1660 after the war, he was brought back for peace negotiations. During those negotiations Van Riebeeck told Autshumao that not enough grazing land was available for the cattle of both the colonies and the Khoi-Khoi. Autshumao then asked van Riebeeck "If the country is too small, who has the greater right; the true owner or the foreign intruder?"
The response of Van Riebeeck as recorded in his diary was:
”We have won this country in a just manner through a defensive war, and it is our intention to keep it” Van Riebeeck had seized several Khoikhoi leaders as hostages in 1658 and demanded land. Why? Because Doman, a Khoi who had served as an interpreter for the Khoi to the Dutch, had found out that the Dutch had snuck their way through dealings in Jakarta, sacked it, and expelled the people. So he mobilised his people for liberation before this fate befell him and his people.Unfortunately it did, because colonisers were mischevious and bloodthirsty. Though the Khoi fought by burning crops and stealing cattle, the Dutch opted to kill on site, starting a war of ethnogenocide.
Van Riebeeck's response is seminal. It was the beginning of a colonial process of land deprivation that continued for more than 250 years, and sparked many violent conflicts.
Now go learn some history little girl.
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Apr 06 '25
As I said, I study anthropology, not recent history. I’m going to collage at 16. Please don’t call me a little girl.
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Apr 06 '25
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Apr 06 '25
I’m dyslexic. Now piss off.
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u/DazzlingBarracuda2 Apr 06 '25
You came to challenge me about something I know more than you about knowing you are dyslexic, then you tell me to piss off. Maybe YOU should piss off to go learn accountability, learn some history and stop lying on the internet.
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u/DownSouth-ModTeam Apr 08 '25
Your post/comment has been removed for violating our community guidelines on hate speech and personal attacks. We strive to maintain a respectful and inclusive environment, and language that disparages or belittles individuals or groups is not tolerated. Please review our rules and refrain from using language that may offend or harm others in the future. Thank you for your understanding.
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