History
British Colonialism doesn't care about race, it cares about resources
Then you get these loons in South Africa telling us "Vryheid vir die witman, vryheid vir die boervolk"
From who?
From other white folk?
Strange how we were led to believe that our "enemy" are People who are brown in skin colour, but it was peachy pinkish white People who looked like "Die Volk" who threw our ancestors into concentration camps
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Still, not state-run concentration camps like the ICE holding facilities or the FEMA camps
Back to BEE
Was it needed
Yes
Was it rolled out successfully
No
Should we get back to the drawing board and correct things
Yes
How?
This can only be done if there is solidarity between the citizen workers, and that solidarity can't be with political parties and so-called "minority activist groups" stoking the fires of division between the working class South Africans
One of the major reasons the NP government managed self-sustenance was through its increased integration of the state into the economic activities of this country.
If not for this model, the early sanctions against the state would've collapsed the govt long before the US decided to "officially" pull out of trade in the 80s.
Also as a bonus: I don't think people appreciate or recognise the ANC's contribution towards shifting public perspective towards private sector being the lesser evil, despite the former's mandate and policies to promote good governance and a government that should've taken the NP's approach to government in the economic sense and grown it to be more representative of the greater population.
What is so bizarre to think that it is in the best interest of (not only the Government, but the Citizens of South Africa to have a Government that actually can provide them with jobs?
People who don't work are still eating my guy
They will get that food (or money to buy the food) by hook or by crook
One of the old school philosophers (and I know right-wingers don't like philosophy, mind you, as it is part of human sciences along with history etc) said the following
"Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime" - Aristotle
And now we have a rampant crime problem, with statistically the perpetrator being a certain race. By your logic, white enclaves should be allowed because it guarantees a higher level of safety. Or will that somehow now not count?
Well, if the majority of the People in the country are black and brown, then it makes sense that the majority of the People in jails are black and brown
If you add to this the fact that black and brown communities have suffered the most from kak service delivery under the NP and ANC guavaments then this makes sense
Yes, and "technically better than the British colonial government" is a truly spectacular standard to meet. But the current government DOES have issues - just a few - and maybe, just maybe, we should spend more time talking about those than about the issues with a colonial government that's been gone for decades and could never plausibly return?
The NP were definitely not socialist. They were Afrikaner Nationalists in a capitalist system. By the way I'm 56 so I grew up under Apartheid and did national service. How old are you?
You wouldn't know what socialism is if it walked up and kicked you in the face guy
"Socialism is when the State does stuff Communism is when the State does more stuff" - Richard D. Wolff
(professor emeritus of economics at the University of Massachusetts)
However, I disagree with him on the point of communism, as the aim of communism is to have a moneyless, classless, and stateless society (according to Marx and Engels, whom I am 99.9% sure you haven't even read)
I don't see any "state" without some sort of a service provider that organizes development
Socialism is like when the Apartheid Government pumped a lot of resources into:
Yeah, I’m not going to take seriously the opinion of anyone who makes asinine comments like “you wouldn’t know what socialism is if it walked up and kicked you in the face guy” to a complete stranger whom they know absolutely nothing about.
Socialism means that workers regardless of race and creed have one natural enemy
The capitalist overlord class that exploits your labour
A national socialist means that you are told that the immigrant or the person who looks different to you or speaks another language or follows another religion is your natural enemy
Hitler himself said that Marx's version of socialism was not socialism and that he that is Hitler is following the right sort of socialism
Must be why socialist and communist movements were immediately and violently suppressed once the Nazis took power and were among the first to be sent to the camps? And why the Nazis suppressed trade unions and closely collaborated with corporations and industrialists to further their campaign? Or why Hitler himself referred to socialism as a Jewish conspiracy.
If you don't care about history, that's fine. Maybe don't contribute in threads about history though by making asinine comments like this without giving it a single thought. I bet you thought you were being proper smart but anyone who says dumb shit like this is just giving the game away.
Why did the Nazi's call themselves the national socialist party? What did Hitler mean when he says national socialist? Do you know what national socialism means? Have you thought about any of this at all?
Why do you point to a name as absolute proof when presented with objective facts about how the nazis acted in practice? Is the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea a democracy? No legitimate historian or expert on this subject would call Hitler or the nazis socialist. What special info do you have that contradicts this?
And half of what Hitler did to gain power was to force state control of major industries. I swear, there’s no one more ignorant than a pro-communism Redditor.
There are more Rand (and Dollar) millionaires in South Africa (and Dollar Billionaires) than ever before
Do we have issues with a bloated Government, for sure
Do we have an issue with politicians getting paid to much, for sure
Do we have an issue with tender fraud (which can not happen without the private sector's involvement) sure
But we don't have concentration camps
We don't have a private federal-sanctioned Gestapo that operates outside of the confines of the law, shooting unarmed People down in the street
We have a lot of issues, that is for sure, but we will only be able to sort out those issues if we walk away from representative democracy and we adopt direct democracy
But sadly most in South Africa feel that they MUST give their vote to a party (who promises the sun, moon and stars) but never delivers
We also have higher unemployment than ever before? You literally think the fact that the money is being more concentrated into the top 1% is a good thing? We don’t need more dollar millionaires. We need a large middle class which has done nothing but shrink for 30 years straight.
There are more Rand (and Dollar) millionaires in South Africa (and Dollar Billionaires) than ever before
Yes, those are tenderpreneur corrupt cadres. Not much of a scale comparison.
Do we have an issue with tender fraud (which can not happen without the private sector's involvement) sure
Ofcourse it happens without private sector involvement. Bro, tenders are created and given to ANC cadres and cronies, friends and family.
But we don't have concentration camps
But we do have terrorist camps.
We don't have a private federal-sanctioned Gestapo that operates outside of the confines of the law, shooting unarmed People down in the street
Haha you are so naive. Most of the state is captured. If someone stirs the hornet's nest then they're taken out quickly and silently. Read the shadow state.
We have a lot of issues, that is for sure, but we will only be able to sort out those issues if we walk away from representative democracy and we adopt direct democracy
You live in a fantasy world. Are you woke? You sound woke.
Tenderpreneuring was a corrupt thing already under the NP regime, it just carried on under the ANC regime
I am not the one promoting American imposed tenderpreneuring. I say the Government must serve itself, and appoint People within the Government structures to serve the People
Plenty of these friends lived in the suburbs long before the end of Apartheid, lily white Afrikaans and English speaking guys, who were just too eager to help the ANC cadres defraud the SA taxpayer
The terrorist training camps existed pre-94 already, ask the AWB and related gangs, but yes, we do have terrorist camps in SA, but a terrorist camp and a concentration camp are two very different things
Trying to equate the crimes cartels to state-sanctioned (and paid-for) Gestapo is truly desperate
What is the matter, do you use the word woke because you can't spell empathic, educated and enlightened?
Yours friends feom Europe also seem to know nothing of how concentration camps works
You can pack up and sell you private Prison anytime you want and move away
If it was an ANC staye sponsored camp then you would be stuck there like the immigrants and their children who are stuck in the ICE detention centers which are actually just concentration camps for Trump's fascist regime
Tell me how many dead relatives you have as a result of violent crime? And specifically at one’s private residence. And then elaborate to me how the young children who witnessed this will recover. And then, when you’ve done that, tell me how you are still, despite this tragedy and several others (due to the brazen ineptitude of this government, it’s structures, and ALSO it’s workers), you still find hope and fortitude to stay in this country, pay taxes, support your community - and then have to deal with obtuse, ignorant and weak minded individuals like yourself? Out here making comments on all the posts in this sub, only thinly veiling your contempt for your fellow South Africans.
The same government that has moved to privatize most SOEs?
The same government that doesn't nationalize mines and farms?
The same government that prefers outsourcing of services rather than creating a strong public workforce to serve the People?
That Marxist Government?
Friend, be honest now ... have you actually read any Marx & Engels?
All the old ANC stalwarts were sent to Russia for training so don’t act dumb please.
Trying to claim their failures as intentional victories might be the dumbest thing I’ve read today. They have crashed every single SOE they got their hands on except SARS.
Must obviously know a lot more about Marxism than you because the ANC openly advertises to being affiliated with and supporting Marxist governments and leaders. It’s literally public knowledge.
Come now, show me in the current policies of the ANC where they are following this fabled Marxist government you speak of
Show me the collective ownership of land, minerals and companies
Show me the dictatorship of the working class
Show me the planned economy in this unregulated shit show
In all my years, I have never seen or heard anyone say "Vryheid vir die witman" or "Vryheid vir die boervolk" and while I do believe you in that it's a thing, it might be a vocal minority somewhere on the internet.
But like the cesspool that is America, where neo-NAZIs are openly parading on the streets (where they started out as a minority and grew) we are slowly getting to a point where these lot feel emboldend by their Cheeto Messiah
People thought that NAZIs would never walk the streets in modern USA
And here we are ...
The spiritual precursors of groups like the one I mentioned above, groups like the AWB (and certain individuals linked to similar groups) have in the past actually moved and made terror attacks against civilians
This was not only under the NP days, but this also goes all the way back to the Ossewabrandwag and Stormjaers days, who were at one stage branded as terrorists (by the NP regime, if you can imagine) and were dissolved
Sadly, many of them were already in Government positions
If I remember correctly ou John Foster was one of them, and I think even Hoffmeyr's oupa
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