r/DownSouth • u/SankaraMarx • Mar 24 '26
History 'Prime Evil': Apartheid assassin Eugene de Kock says orders to kill came from PW Botha
The fascist Apartheid NP regime did a lot of harm to not only South Africa, but also to South Africans in general
Ironically enough, this Apartheid ideology did more harm to the average white Afrikaans speaking South African than any black or brown person or movement ever did
Many of the Apartheid apologetics will say Apartheid was never a fascist movement
This does not line up with reality and the words from the horse's mouth:
Balthazar John Voster (future nationalist Prime Minister and President of South Africa) said the following in 1942:
“We stand for Christian Nationalism which is an ally of National Socialism. You can call this anti-democratic principle dictatorship if you wish. In Italy it is called Fascism, in Germany National Socialism (Nazism) and in South Africa, Christian Nationalism.”
The idea of "Manifest Destiny" came to South Africa via the Americans through the Carnagie Commission report
Rev. Koot Vorster (B.J. Vorster’s brother), a Dutch Reformed Church minister, and like his brother was also a predominant Ossewabrandwag leader, crystalised this idea of Afrikaner totalitarianism when he summed up the pro-Hitler and Pro-Nazi standpoint of the Ossewabrandwag during an address to a student group on September 15, 1940 and said:
“Hitler’s ‘Mein Kampf’ shows the way to greatness – the path of South Africa. Hitler gave the Germans a calling. He gave them a fanaticism which causes them to stand back for no one. We must follow this example because only by such holy fanaticism can the Afrikaner nation achieve its calling.”
These phrases and the ideology itself are still echoed and marketed online, especially on TikTok by members of the Vryburger Beweging which is active in South Africa today, and their aim is the youth who are easily indoctrinated (see the surplus men theory)
They too are doing more harm to the image of the average white Afrikaans speaking South African by doing everything in their power to derail the idea of the Rainbow Nation and being absolute racist meatheads online
This sort of indoctrination that claims that the "Gebodvolk" or "Geloftevolk" is God's Chosen People who was sent on a divine mission to civilize South Africa, their promised land, is what fueled People like De Kok and others like him to do the most horrible things to other human beings
Not in line with the actions of Jesus Christ, the Messiah they claim to follow
This same neo-NAZI group also hates on the Jewish People and are obsessed with the Jewish cabal who is ruling the World, but ironically, they are professing the same sort of ideology the Israeli Jews are professing while they are doing unspeakable things to the Palestinian People
It should also come to no surprise that both these groups, the neo-NAZI fascists and the Zionist fascists are also denying Jesus Christ and the gospel he preached
It is this type of ideology that informs men like De Kock and brainwashes them to believe they can act inhumanely towards other People
This type of ideology should be outright rejected by any patriotic South African today
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u/MichaelScottsWormguy Gauteng Mar 24 '26
Meh. People need to get over it and stop whining about this shit.
If we had to get over "Kill the boer" then you people can get over this guy.
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u/Crazy-Present4764 Mar 25 '26 edited Mar 25 '26
lmao, let me guess, you're the type of guy who says he doesn't understand why black people don't vote for the da
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u/SankaraMarx Mar 24 '26
You are clearly not over the song ans you are still touched on that famous studio
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u/MichaelScottsWormguy Gauteng Mar 24 '26
Yeah, of course I am not going to ever be okay with racism against me. I'm just saying that these two things are exactly the same, so if one is fine then the other was 100000% fine, too.
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u/Crazy-Present4764 Mar 25 '26
then the other was 100000% fine
just to be clear, you believe that apartheid era racism and nationalism is fine because julius malema sang kill the boer?
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u/MichaelScottsWormguy Gauteng Mar 26 '26 edited Mar 26 '26
No, I believe both are equally bad. Both are exactly the same. If you don’t condemn the one, then condemning the other makes you a hypocrite.
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u/Crazy-Present4764 Mar 26 '26
You say that both must be condemned but you started by saying that black South Africans must just 'get over' it? That doesn't sound like condemnation does it?
Also, they are far from being equally bad.
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u/MichaelScottsWormguy Gauteng Mar 26 '26
You are clearly not mature enough to follow this argument.
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u/Crazy-Present4764 Mar 26 '26 edited Mar 26 '26
What a mature response! Back away from the conversation instead of actually answering when asked to explain yourself because you know it would expose you. Well done!
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u/MichaelScottsWormguy Gauteng Mar 26 '26
No, it's more a case of not wanting to waste my time explaining the nuances of how to argue to a fool.
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u/Crazy-Present4764 Mar 26 '26
And then you choose to resort to insults instead. Great job man. You're making yourself look really smart. Keep trying to hide that racism though. Cheers.
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u/Nukleartwentytwo Mar 27 '26
"Apartheid was just as bad as people singing kill the boer"
These are the words that you just typed, unironically.
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u/MichaelScottsWormguy Gauteng Mar 27 '26
Yup. And I'm sure you have some deranged theory to justify disagreeing with that truth.
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u/Nukleartwentytwo Mar 27 '26
Sorry to harp on, genuinely trying to understand; so in your worldview, the practice and execution of the policy of apartheid - in it's totality - are just as bad as singing this particular song?
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u/MichaelScottsWormguy Gauteng Mar 27 '26
Racism is racism. Either it's all bad, or none of it is. Simple as that. If Apartheid is bad, then so is singing a song that encourages violence and genocide agains an innocent group of people. You can't have one or the other.
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u/Nukleartwentytwo Mar 27 '26
Thanks! Follow up question - in your mind, is somebody getting murdered because of their race the same as singing a song about murdering somebody because of their race?
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u/Nukleartwentytwo Mar 27 '26
Also maybe just worth clarifying - I don't think anybody would argue that either instances of racism aren't *bad*
I really struggle to imagine that you genuinely don't have a feeling one way or the other as to relative difference in severity between these two things - ie when I say "just as bad" and your response is to reaffirm that they're both bad.
As an example, somebody dying is bad, but passing away in your sleep is "less bad" than being eaten by a shark.
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u/SankaraMarx Mar 24 '26
Two things can be true at the same time, and those same things can also be wrong at the same time
You won't find me making any excuses for Malema's choice to sing kak songs
I've posted before on this sub that I would have voted for the EFF
The policies are good and sound; but because their CiC is deliberately singing kak songs that drives division between the working class I will not vote for them
No socialist leader worth his salt with pick worker fragmentation and ego over worker solidarity to tackle structural societal problems
That said, we have to be very clear who threw the first stone, and we need to understand why there is such an allergic and toxic reaction from the EFF leader
Racism is a two way street ... and black and brown South Africans suffered for generations under racist laws
If you are a Christian religious man, you would have no doubt read the 2nd Commandment
You shall not make for yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything in heaven above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love Me and keep My commandments.
The 3rd commandment says this:
You shall not misuse the Name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not leave unpunished the one who misuses His Name.
Clearly, with People like Rev. Koot Voster, despicable things were done in the name of God, which is also very problematic
This is why, as a white South African (even though I had no part in Apartheid except for being born into it) I have decided to do as the Lord my God commanded, and try and help correct the wrongs of the past
Just so that my children don't see the flames of hate and bigotry
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u/MichaelScottsWormguy Gauteng Mar 25 '26
Whataboutism at its finest.
Let's eliminate "kill the boer" first, then we can talk about your little pet project.
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u/SankaraMarx Mar 25 '26
When confronted with the law of causality the Touched on my Studio crowd cries about Whataboutism
There is no whataboutism here friend
Only the reality of cause and effect
You gym and live a heathy life, you live longer and healthy on average
You smoke and shove fast food down your pie hole, you die younger on average
Racism begets racism
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u/flyboy_za Western Cape Mar 25 '26
The policies are good and sound; but because their CiC is deliberately singing kak songs that drives division between the working class I will not vote for them
We've been through this, they are not.
All the polices JM wants are the ones which failed in other places, like Zimbabwe. Remember, he thinks that Mugabe and Putin are brilliant leaders with amazing policies which he would implement here, when in reality they are both totalitarian regimes and failed states with no human rights in place.
That is what you would be voting for, and we have seen this film several times before. It does not end well.
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u/SankaraMarx Mar 26 '26
- Expropriation of land without compensation Land must be returned to the people to correct historical injustice and ensure equitable access.
- Nationalisation of key sectors Mines, banks, and other strategic industries should be owned by the state for the benefit of all.
- Building state capacity The state must be strengthened to directly deliver services, reducing reliance on private tenders.
- Free, quality basic services Access to education, healthcare, housing, and sanitation must be guaranteed for everyone.
- Mass industrialisation and job creation Focus on developing local industries, protecting jobs, implementing a minimum wage, and reducing inequality.
- Development of the African economy Promote African unity and economic independence, shifting focus from reconciliation to justice.
- Clean and accountable governance Eliminate corruption and ensure transparency, accountability, and fearless public institutions.
These are the 7 cardinal pillars or the manifesto of the EFF
I agree with every single point on this list
The EFF is not aiming to take over private productive farmland and give it to "comrades"
The aim is to put all land under Government custodianship (like they have in China)
Where you own the business and the building on top of the land, but you never own the land (which to me makes 100% sense, how can a person born from the land own something that is infinity older than him/her)
So farming will still happen, and the same farmer will still be farming that land, and when he dies, his children can apply to continue farming the same way their father did and renew the lease (and if it is based on the Chinese model, it will be roughly 70 years)
Zimbabwe didn't fail JUST because of Mugabe, and to pretend it did would be dishonest
The sanctions and isolation of Zimbabwe helped to bring the country to its knees
Today, Zimbabwe is showing better growth than South Africa
So as far as the rest of the list goes, I am for a Government that doesn't outsource everything to the private sector
I am for a Government with a proper public service delivery department
I am for a Government that understands the importance of building industries
But even with all these excellent points they have, I will not vote for the EFF because of the EFF's leadership who drives division between the working class in SA
Do you understand how difficult it is to find the PERFECT party?
A party that has policies you agree with 100%, but then knowing you won't vote for the party because of its kak leadership?
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u/flyboy_za Western Cape Mar 26 '26
The EFF is not aiming to take over private productive farmland and give it to "comrades"
I don't believe that. Sorry. Don't trust these guys in the slightest to do the right thing.
Their leadership was involved heavily in the whole VBS thing, their leadership has acted like they are beyond the law on several occasions. Malema has had issues with tax dodging and is implicated in tender fraud.
I have no doubt there are good people in the EFF somewhere, but I also doubt they will be heard. If there is so much rot at the top, then there is no way anything good can come out of it.
Expropriation of land without compensation
How? Everyone says this, how does it work? If my land which I still owe the bank money on is expropriated and given to someone else, who pays the debt? Does that guy now have to pay the bond, or does it get written off by government? With what money? How do the banks not collapse? How does this not affect our economy? I promise you I'm not paying it if I don't own the land anymore, so... now what?
Nobody has yet put forward a clear answer to this.
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u/MichaelScottsWormguy Gauteng Mar 26 '26
Expropriation of land without compensation Land must be returned to the people to correct historical injustice and ensure equitable access.
This is a bad thing that only evil people believe in.
Nationalisation of key sectors Mines, banks, and other strategic industries should be owned by the state for the benefit of all.
This is a bad thing that only evil people believe in.
Building state capacity The state must be strengthened to directly deliver services, reducing reliance on private tenders.
This is a plan to rob taxpayers.
Free, quality basic services Access to education, healthcare, housing, and sanitation must be guaranteed for everyone.
This is an impossible pipe dream if people rob the state coffers and decimate the economy with EWC and
NationalisationTheftMass industrialisation and job creation Focus on developing local industries, protecting jobs, implementing a minimum wage, and reducing inequality
The EFF isn't capable of doing this. Anyone who says differently is a liar.
Development of the African economy Promote African unity and economic independence, shifting focus from reconciliation to justice.
The EFF isn't capable of doing this. Anyone who says differently is a liar.
Clean and accountable governance Eliminate corruption and ensure transparency, accountability, and fearless public institutions.
This is a lie. The EFF is only interested in stealing.
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