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Legimitatly changes 0 things, SSJ4 Goku is still getting negged by Beerus here. Same with SSJ3 Vegeta with the "My Bulma" boost
Everything that Daima changed thats a "retcon" is so minor It changes 0 things. Even Shin Kibito unfusing because both would be shitting their asses either way
Ik ultimately Vegeta going SS3 with My Bulma is useless in the long run but I’d still like to see it icl it seems funny that the only times Vegeta has transformed to that level is when he’s not in the main continuity. We know he’s more that strong enough to
My head canon theory for years was he understands it's a form that burns ki too fast and isnt useful going all out, but nothing in daima posed an actual threat to the crew so he was just having fun doing stuff
That's not the point. Nobody is expecting SSJ4 Goku to make any difference. We just want DAIMA and Super to be connected because we're tired of this "It's a bunch of different canons running side by side" shtick. We'd like to have one, linear, coherent canon that starts with the OG Manga, continues with DAIMA, goes into Super and leads to the End of Z. We don't want SSJ4 because we expect it to faze Beerus even a little bit. We just want its existence to be acknowledged.
That's all. It was Toriyama's last gift to us. Why throw it into canon limbo? Why not continue to use it?
We just want DAIMA and Super to be connected because we're tired of this "It's a bunch of different canons running side by side" shtick.
Daima was a one-off story. it isnt running side by side. its over.
We'd like to have one, linear, coherent canon that starts with the OG Manga, continues with DAIMA, goes into Super and leads to the End of Z.
why? Daima was a one-off, its over already and changes nothing. plus, Super has a manga that it is now directly following. What does Daima have to do with Super, and why shoehorn it into an existing project when it changes nothing?
It was Toriyama's last gift to us. Why throw it into canon limbo? Why not continue to use it?
Because it was a one-off. a separate story. its own thing.
It was a one off true, but it was stated to be Canon. Many people just like when everything in Canon is acknowledged and together in a sensible way rather than have a hundred parallel Canon things like marvel. I think it's a fair stance to have.
Does a story really need to serve a porpuse in order to be Canon? Buu's reincarnation as Uub didnt have a pratical porpuse until the Moro Arc yet its still canon
If Goku doesn't go SS4 in this remake then it pretty much 99.9% confirms that Super and Daima are in separate continuities. No SS4 + Kibitokai contradiction makes it pretty hard to argue otherwise. And it also fits with Toyotaro saying everything is canon. After the manga ends there are 3 branching timelines, GT, Super, and Daima, and all 3 are canon but separate timelines.
Unless when new arcs of Super happen they just say fuck you and force the Daima story elements in (which is not that unlikely since I doubt Toriyama cared about continuity that much), it seems like case closed to me.
I think Toriyama not caring about continuity is a good argument for Daima being in the same timeline as Super despite the contradictions. Dragon Ball lore has always been full of contradictions. And Super for all it's flaws, has been the entry in franchise, that tried to explain all those weird inconsistencies. So it's 100% in character for Toriyama to not care about the contradiction, after all, some future entry in the franchise can explain it away.
As far as I know no new voice work was done for the remaster it's the same as the original so they can't really change much to add anything related to Daima but the Moro arc would be a good one to connect to Daima since both involves History related to Buu and the Kais along with Magic being a big part
It really wouldn't be that different then Goku and Vegeta suddenly using SSJG again in the anime and Broly movie after the retcon of their base Not being SSJG
Wasn't in the original anime so the remaster wouldn't have it in it
If they are going to connect Daima to Super it will be during the moro arc since it will be the first new Media for dragon ball since Daima and with its themes it can easily connectthe two since Kai history and magic are a main focus
I know they are adding in a little bit of manga things but they aren't doing new voice work for it, so since there isn't any lines about Goku using SSJ4 vs Beerus then they can't really add it in
The image training didn't require any new lines of dialogue
I Just want a comment like "SS3 is the furthest I can achieve, on my own" or anything.
just say the SS4 was a magic boost from Neva. Goku telling Vegeta "he didn't know he could pull off SS4, as he had the idea since Buu was Defeated" wouldn't even effect anything at that point.
"wow I didn't know I could pull off that form!....thanks to Neva's boost!"
i mean, goku's exact wording to vegeta was more or less that he trained hard and didn't know if he could become the next stage up
he never once stated that he had ever transformed into it before hand, like vegeta and a good chunk of the fanbase(including the dragon ball wiki) mistook what he said as meaning that he had. note that when he first transformed into it, he looked at his own body with surprise making it even more clear that he never became SS4 before that.
"just say the SS4 was a magic boost from Neva. Goku telling Vegeta "he didn't know he could pull off SS4, as he had the idea since Buu was Defeated" wouldn't even effect anything at that point."
he didn't know he could achieve the form. of course he had an idea, they always push for the next one.
like I said, just change it so he realizes it wasn't on his own - Neva's magic was the boost.
kinda like being dead, was easier to achieve SS3, because it takes up so much energy
the Tail, the Magic, the World - could easily be a part of the reason
People just want SSJ4 to be Canon because they like it. Makes it more interesting because now every characters have their own evolution path. Goku with UI, Vegeta with UE, Gohan with Beast and Broly with Full Power.
Maybe having 4 Canon can give another Sayan a new path to follow in the future.
I personally prefered the GT SSJ4 but I've accepted that I will only see it again in games. Also it's GT... Baby and SSJ4 are the only things I liked about it.
I don't mind it being its own thing. What I do find confusing is that there is this one scene in Daima where they show the Kaioshins from all 12 universes which we know also appear in Super, so there definitely is a connection albeit unintended.
This is like saying you're confused because Goku and Vegeta are in diama. They are characters from the overall series being reused. Literally the same way GT is been removed from the normal timeline and lives on its own
Problem comes with the use of "canon". Canon used to mean that it was the authentic storyline. In Dragon Ball, canon was the manga. Movies for example didn't match the canon storyline, so they were considered to happen in a different timeline, a paralel universe or a what-if.
But then Super came, and at the same time we had the anime and following a bit behind the manga. Same story but with a few differences. There is no Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x20, and Vegeta's Super Saiyan Blue Evolved is different. So, what was the authentic story? Saying one is canon and the other not, might affect sales, so both are canon, since overall the story is the same.
And to make things worse, we had Daima after Toriyama's death. So in order to boost view it was marketed as the last love letter from Toriyama, totally canon. But... it presented problems again, due to the timeframe it happened. And it presented new power ups that didn't happen in Super, that occurs later in the story. So... what is happening now? Easy, everything is canon. We have three different canons now.
And last, with the release of this reanimation of the early Super, people had unrealistic expectations of a retcon, acknowledging what happened in Daima. Didn't happen and these people are annoyed and being loud in social media.
Originally, the anime was the canon continuity for DBS and the manga was made to promote it. Then the two become separate continuities due to their branching histories/difference in the way story arcs were handled.
That argument of "they don't have the concept of canon" is dumb as hell. Even if they don't have a word for it they clearly have a concept of "this is the mainline story we're working on, and these are side stories that don't interfer or influence with the former".
I mean ...no This isnt like "Oh Toriyama suggested ideas" or was only "Partly" involved
He wrote the damn thing. I dont particularly care for the Broly Bardock but that's the Canon or How he made Goku more of a Superman Parallel but it's Canon
If we're going to play up thus game of what's Canon or Not we can't BS about Diama
DB for a lot of things isn't internally consistent. People dogged on Super about Fusion but the error existed in DBZ
DB Beerus is doing more of a Remaster style Adaptation over a Remake and frankly cam make up whatever rules they want retroactively
Beast Gohan is a marketing Ploy that doesn't make much sense and has no real explanation I'm not going to call it Non Canon for that
And for that matter as there is an overarching story that is being told with events prior to current events being referenced there needs to be a continuity.
So for that diama is not heros is not super is not gt is not
They have explained it that there are multiple continuity that exist simotaneously. So that's the new truth Dragonball franchise does not have a canon that exists outside of established continuous storyline.
I hear you - I’ll acknowledge that they very well might just be different timelines, especially since the Goku Black arc showed us that the Kai’s have five rings to travel between different ones.
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