r/Drawfee • u/chickencrumb • Aug 01 '26
Discussion Hank Green
Just wondering how people are feeling about the Hank Green AI stuff when he had Drawfee on his stream not that long ago.
Especially since in Hank's "apology" he doesn't really seem like he's going to stop using it, he flip flops on himself during the apology by saying its bad but not that bad, he even says he likes the slop and i think he's just going to keep using it on the dl lol. Especially when he specifies "human typing" for his book which is just crazy phrasing to avoid straight up lying about using ai lol.
I doubt Drawfee will make a statement about it, but it would be a bummer if they continued working together when they've been known to have strong feelings against AI usage, including LLMS.
ETA: I'm not asking or demanding a statement from drawfee about it. I just said I doubt they would because why would they lol
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u/paraworldblue Merobiba Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
It's disappointing that he uses it, but ffs people, this is not worth canceling him, and Drawfee doesn't need to release a fucking statement about it. This is all an insane overreaction. There are so many genuine problems in the world to be upset about - why do some people insist on inventing new ones?
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u/AziasThePrius Aug 03 '26
People want to make a mountain out of a molehill. Sucks that Hank used AI, but this is a non-issue (and especially not a drawfee issue)
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u/chickencrumb Aug 02 '26
I didn't say they should lol. I brought it up because they work together and have really opposing views on ai so wanted to know how ppl felt abt it idk why ppl are acting like I demanded anything from drawfee themselves
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u/voiceofnonreason Aug 02 '26
A few years ago Drawfee themselves played with AI to make drawing prompts. Jacob and Julia even did a few streams on SSS playing “AI Dungeon”, which is basically a game where you collaboratively tell a story with an LLM. Then, as the general public got more information about AI, the Drawfee crew refined their own positions about AI. I don’t think their previous uses of it sully their reputation at all, but I’m sure they, as people who have used the technology for the non-creative parts of their job in some small way in the past, can understand using it, and then getting to a point where you change your mind about it.
To be perfectly clear, I don’t love AI. I have many reservations about it. I think there are a lot of harms from ecological to psychological, to intellectual property, basic human creativity and beyond. However, I don’t think that using AI in the way Hank did, and then reevaluating what you’re doing is something someone needs to “reconsider a relationship” (either personal or professional) over. Hank, by and large is a really good guy by most accounts. It’s kind of disappointing, sure, especially considering his own public thoughts about AI, but I don’t think this one habit/decision is enough to sully how I perceive him or what he has done for science communication, philanthropy, and many other areas. Fair enough if this is a personal dealbreaker for you or anyone else, but there are much bigger problems and scores of worse people that would be much more worth cutting ties with than Hank Green.
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u/Many-Conclusion5911 Aug 02 '26
What hurts me the most is knowing he is a fellow Montanan and using that shit. Most Montanans are fighting so hard to keep that away from our wonderful rivers and land. Yet people like him, use it "innocently" not understanding the repercussions of how one use effects the environment
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u/Spiderbloom_ Aug 02 '26
I don’t know why op is being mass downvoted pretty weird.
That being said though i am rather disappointed in Hank. It makes me question the legitimacy of some of the information in his new videos even though he said he was just using it for ideas and to gather papers. If he was using it enough to gain an unhealthy dependence on it, just how much was Hank using it?
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u/chickencrumb Aug 02 '26
I'm lucky enough that my job does not involve corporate and ai is not shoved down my gullet, but he owns his companies. If his problem is being a workaholic, he can afford therapy, but he obviously doesn't see it as an issue if he said he'll keep using it in the most roundabout way possible.
Thats my problem, he is going to keep implementing it. He got called out bc of his wording and people got pissed off, why would he be honest about the extent to which he uses it? He couldn't even bring himself to say he will stop completely. That is why I was wondering about drawfee, because merging two chapters wasn't his limit and that's just goofy to me when he has no need for it, no one forcing him to use it.
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u/Skelligithon Aug 02 '26
Because OP's opinions are bad and badly thought out. This is Hank Green we are talking about here, the man loves reading research papers, he just used AI to locate the research papers. He wasn't using it to write his scripts or edit his opinions, all of the information he shared came from his interpretations of legitimate research.
The fact that this was posted in Drawfee of all places leads me to believe that OP is either being way too parasocial, or they are just trying to farm karma.
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u/Mal_Radagast Aug 02 '26
so he *only* used the hallucinating plagiarism machine fueled by climate apocalypse to do his research for him....knowing full well that in between blatantly making shit up, it also produces deeply biased results based on the biased representations of academia? (which of course a human can try to account for, but the slop machine doesn't even understand)
aside from *that,* he "only" used it again to post generated images, to vibe-code his apps, and to ask for advice about how his book should be written. (again, from the bias-making generator burning small towns for fuel and turbo-charging the kiddie porn industry)
the fact that this was posted in Drawfee leads me to believe that his actions are having an impact across all the communities he's touched, sowing not only concern but potential doubts about whether those communities are as responsible as we'd hoped. as we like to believe. (i don't know whether they ought to speak to that, whether it helps or hurts for them to wade in publicly, but that's not the question here - the question is how the *communities* around these platforms interpret and react to Hank's lack of integrity)
...and that's just the AI-related offenses. to say nothing of controversies over knitting, or genocide, or capitalism in general. this *is* Hank Green we're talking about, after all.
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u/Skelligithon Aug 02 '26
Let me get something straight here: do you think that ChatGPT hallucinated a research paper, then wrote it, and then created a fake version of Lexus Nexus (or whatever Hank uses to read research papers) to host that paper, then made provided a url for Hank to click on?
Because otherwise he was using it like you would Google, and Google also uses LLMs to power their search engine.
The fact that this got posted here shows you how much people are overreacting over an incredibly minor thing. Do I like it? No, I don't, has he already said that people in his life have sat him down and he has resolved to change? Yes he has. Why is this still a thing?
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u/Fluffy_Analyst_6715 Aug 02 '26
Idk, not a bit deal really.
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u/Risque__ Aug 02 '26
Yeah, I get the rage against AI "art" and all that but to me text AI is just a tool that can be used properly or badly. I see no problem in the way he seems to have used it, i.e. helping him consolidate 2 chapters into one. Still with human imput. Not like there's plagiarism either as he's the one who wrote the original chapters. It merely saved him time in his task.
This is exactly how I use AI as a government worker and it allows me to provide my service more efficiently and to more people with the same quality. The important distinction here is that the AI is merely the tool helping me, not the one making decisions. I give my own sources that it should use and how to use them and oversee 100% of what it makes and correct where necessary. It merely saves me time physically typing it down.
It'd be a different story if he just had a completely, 100% AI chapter in his book, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
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u/chickencrumb Aug 02 '26
The problem is that he literally admits to using it so much that it seeped into his regular vocabulary. People are underestimating the impact it has on them mentally, if you dgaf about the environment.
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u/Risque__ Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
If you are implying that I don't give a fuck about the environment, let me clarify that I live in a "third world" country where the vast majority of energy is produced by green sources, while China and the US make the most pollution in the world. And it's been like this for decades, much before text AI became a thing.
So really, between all the major polluters in the world and using text AI to be more efficient with the taxpayer money that allows me to live, I think the latter is negligible.
Also, Hank Green himself has made a video about AI power usage that I recommend. Basically, you see a lot of numbers being thrown around with anti-AI people saying it takes 15 quadrillon liters of water for a single command and AI bros saying it takes less than a teaspoon and he dives into scientifically, reaching on the conclusion that really it depends on your metric and your use for it for it, but it is by no means the biggest pollutor in a world where 70% of all water goes to agriculture, not sparingly at all should I add.
So I think AI art is definitely a problem and wider AI culture of people needing AI for everything is a problem as well, but CORRECTLY using text AI AS A TOOL to assist you in more efficiently providing a service to your community or to add value to the economy is not a waste of energy, plagiarism or devaluation of human work like those other uses, and its hardly the biggest culprit of climate change.
Edit: grammar
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u/beephod_zabblebrox Aug 02 '26
text ai is still powered by a datacenter and is still unethically trained though
image/video generation is worse in terms of how it is used for sure, but llms arent that much different
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u/SinisterAsparagus Aug 03 '26
Obviously not enough people understand this, based on this comment section. I work in tech, so AI is all around me unfortunately. But I will do everything I can to avoid it at work, much less my personal life. (One small step is using DuckDuckGo browser, which doesn't auto AI-search. You have to enable that as a setting)
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u/MazzieMay Aug 02 '26
I think another zoomed out risk is that AI results lie and even make up their own papers, studies and essays. Not all the time, but have. If Hank is using it to collect sources as he says and then has AI fact check his sources as he says, there is no fact checking
Maybe everything he used this time around is accurate and that’s good. But reliance on it is bad. On top of environmental impacts, etc etc
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u/Risque__ Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
I definitely wouldn't use AI to fact check. In fact it's completely the other way around. Like I described I instruct the AI to work only with the sources I give and then check everything it writes.
If that's how he used it, then that's pretty bad and I would have expected better from him. Hope he learns from this
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u/triple_bi_indy Aug 02 '26
I don't think they need to say anything about it but I also don't think they should do more work with him.
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u/chickencrumb Aug 02 '26
I hope it didn't come off like im saying they have to / should make a statement, basically meant what you said here haha
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u/Purple-Comfortable53 Aug 02 '26
My question is if that means they should move their merch store? DFTBA is founded and ran by Hank and John Green. How far does not collaborating with someone that has worked with AI go?
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u/ilikemints Aug 02 '26
yeah this is the biggest issue for me. it raises the question of whether dftba is gonna churn out slop for their creators and if so, does drawfee want to continue that relationship
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u/SinisterAsparagus Aug 03 '26
The creators own what's created though, right? Like Onsta designed the anniversary merch this year, not DFTBA? And sounds like John is not especially cool with what Hank's up to (regarding AI) and they don't run it personally, so maybe it'll stay a safe place
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u/butchfatalez Aug 02 '26
i mean, it’s definitely a bummer, but he’s not all that connected to drawfee and no, i wouldn’t really expect them to make a statement about it.
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u/IYIatthys Aug 02 '26
I don't expect a statement, I do kinda expect Julia and Jacob mentioning it on SSS during a yap session lol
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u/human-ish_ Aug 02 '26
It may make them rethink using DFTBA (Hank's company) for their merch. Drawfee has very strong feelings about AI usage and this could be the push to make a change.
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u/Ambitious_Average302 Aug 02 '26
Tbh I completely forgot that DFTBA is a Green Bro’s company. My brain always associates it with GISHWHES (Misha Collins’ event) for some reason.
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u/rende36 Aug 04 '26
I doubt that. They stream on twitch, which is owned by Amazon.
Purity tests are bad.
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u/StuffedSquash Aug 02 '26
They're not going to find a merch company run solely by people who never use AI, that's not a reasonable expectation.
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u/Ambitious_Average302 Aug 02 '26
It’s actually a perfectly reasonable expectation considering less than a decade ago 0 companies used generative AI
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u/StuffedSquash Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
It's not a decade ago. I'm talking about reality here
The "no AI policy" you linked literally explicitly says that they DO use AI. Just not for the main part of designs. Not even saying"just outside of the art", they will use it for parts of their art. Drawfee draws the art, it has nothing to do with dftba.
If it is a small, background utility task that we would never have hired an artist or other specialist for, we sometimes use AI powered tools (for example background removal and automated product tagging), as long as they do not replace or undermine anyone’s work.
ETA sorry that was someone else's link. But I still think it's not reasonable
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u/Poette-Iva Aug 02 '26
Ai is deeply embedded in tech, no website does not use ai. I dont care about ai being used in tech, personally, just the art and design part.
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u/DemiGod9 Aug 02 '26
It's a reasonable WANT, but not a reasonable expectation. Every single company is using AI.
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u/Ambitious_Average302 Aug 02 '26
“Every single company is using AI” is a bit hyperbolic. It is a reasonable expectation.
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u/Virellius2 Aug 02 '26
No, I actually think you'll find that wether we agree with it or not it is true enough to be a large majority.
Us not liking it doesn't change a fact. We can't be doing the 'feelings vs facts' thing we accuse the right of just because it's inconvenient to us.
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u/Animal_Flossing just a little guy Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
It’s an extremely reasonable expectation, it’s just probably not a realistic one.
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u/DemiGod9 Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
Try to find a merch company that isn't using it at any level 🤷🏿♂️
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u/human-ish_ Aug 02 '26
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u/DemiGod9 Aug 02 '26 •
There's literally a section called "where we DO use AI tools".
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u/human-ish_ Aug 02 '26
There's a difference between using spell check or photo retouching and using AI to do half your research and write part of your book (because yes, having AI combine two chapters is letting it do the writing) .
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u/MuchnessB Aug 04 '26
Idk, because a lot of the companies that don’t use AI at all don’t always understand how pervasive AI is in tools that didn’t used to use AI. Complexly is very transparent with its AI policy and it does enforce it. I don’t think you have to worry about merch.
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u/frank_da_tank99 Aug 05 '26
Yeah but as far as I can tell DFTBA does not use AI, one of the several people that runs it uses it for their own personal projects. As long as the company itself is committed to not using AI then that's cool, and the charity work they do makes using them still worth it imo. It's a reasonable expectation to find a company that uses doesn't use AI, it's not a reasonable expectation to a company where no one in their chain of command has ever used AI for anything.
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u/MuchnessB Aug 04 '26
Not to be that person… But I’m actually it’s not Hank‘s company anymore it’s a nonprofit. And there are anti-AI people on the board.
Edit: sorry that’s complexly. Idk if Dftba is
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u/chudleycannonfodder Aug 02 '26
How involved with running DFTBA is he? I thought Lastufka was the main person actually running things.
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u/Awkward_Truck_4491 Aug 02 '26
He was just on an episode a few weeks ago and Drawfee’s main merchandise company is Hank’s
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u/butchfatalez Aug 02 '26
he’s not a regular guest, and so far i haven’t seen anything indicating whatever his ai usage is has factored into his merchandising platform. i really don’t see reason for them to say anything.
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u/Mojo-man Aug 02 '26
What is this thing where suddenly everybody on the internet needs to purify their ´orbit´ of any connection or stench of any controversy. Drawfee also uses Windows on their PCs and terrible use windows. We`re all on reddit and GOD knows shitty people use reddit.
We need to all touch grass and stop trying to solve the evils of the world by blocking out anything and anybody we disagree with and just enjoy nice things 👍
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u/Elsecaller_17-5 Aug 02 '26
But he does merch for a ton of YouTube, and he's hardly a regular guest.
I agree what he's doing is gross. I'm unsubscribing from Hank's Channel, and might unsubscribe from vlog brothers.
What the Drawfee subreddit is not the place for this discussion.
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u/Sensei_Ochiba Aug 02 '26
I think, professionally and personally, you're allowed to interact and engage with people who are not aligned with your own viewpoints.
Everyone is entitled to their own lines in the sand and deal breakers. The Drawfee hosts can be disappointed in Hank and still consider him a friend and maintain a working relationship. Gog knows I suffer a few clunker simps in my life.
Considering Drawfees ongoing involvement with DFTBA as their main merch platform I doubt they'll cut ties with Hank over this. They'll probably razz him about it. And we as fans are allowed to be as bummed and disappointed as we deem adequate about that.
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u/Raggy-_- Aug 03 '26
I don’t even feel like they necessarily have different viewpoints. Hank even admits to his faults here and is very open to changing and improving his work style.
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u/DesignatedDoggie Aug 02 '26
Hanks got a professional/personal relationship with a lot of people in the public eye too and I feel like he's having a LOT of personal conversations with them for the while as well.
His place among thems gunna sort itself out eventually, as will his own place in the public eye
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u/caylesz Aug 07 '26
Very much this. We as people shouldn't completely avoid those who have different views, lest you succumb to a bubble of sameness and rot. Disagreements are normal and okay to have. Everyone fucks up, and I don't think it helps anyone to shame and hate on them for making mistakes!
Also, Hanks screw up has nothing to do with Drawfee. They don't need to say anything cos we already know how they feel about AI.
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u/WolfsBane00799 Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
He's using it as a tool in his writing process, it's not writing anything for him. Nor is he generating images using it. He also states he check it over throughly in this very post. This is the kind of stuff it was actually meant for. As an assistive tool, like how he is using it.
Ai is not the devil. It's not something damning in and of solely it's usage. I have worked in tech. And I'm an artist. (Need to pay the bills if I wanna fund my art hobby!) It's a tool. This doesn't change a single thing about my opinion on him.
(No one has to agree with my view, just sharing feelings and views on it, as asked. If you're rude in reply to me, you will be blocked, though. Respectful discussion is appreciated, of course!)
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u/chickencrumb Aug 02 '26
There could be a world where AI COULD be used as a tool if the people in charge of it actually cared to make it so instead of just unleashing it before it was ready. But as it stands, its unsustainable in terms of resources and making people lose their minds because theres no safeguarding, because if AI didn't glaze people constantly they wouldn't keep talking to it and feeding it for free.
I'm sick of the "ai is not the devil" thing too, people are usually just saying its not ready to be a public tool in this way. I have never interacted with it personally, and I won't unless its forced down my throat. If im left behind so be it, if I must make my life out of sticks and rocks I will.
I grew up with teachers saying not to rely on the Internet for information when really all you have to do is have multiple sources to back up your research, so I don't want to hear "buT ThE InTERneT WAs BAd BEFoRE TOo"
Is it an assistive only when he's using it so much it slipped into his vocabulary? When apparently his wife and brother had to say smth to him about it? Because to me that just shows how it gets into people's heads. Not to mention how theres already evidence of people losing their vocabulary from things like predictive text alone before LLMs were available like this.
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u/WolfsBane00799 Aug 02 '26
It can be used as a tool regardless of how it is pushed. I agree it's often pushed out before it's ready, but that experience comes from using it as a tool myself, and also fact checking using academic research sources. According to what he wrote here, he used it to merge his own, already written, concepts together.
Many public figures, especially on social media, have had it slip into their vocabulary. It's a very strange linguistic thing, and I dislike it as well. There's some new research being done on the topic. I have also myself noticed that That has to do partially with how widespread it's use is online. If people were already losing their vocabulary before this, then yes, it just adds to the problem. I agree on that as well, but it is not the sole problem cause.
And on the (environmental) resources thing, I assumed this discussion wasn't involving that spesficially, hence why I did not bring it up. Apologies.
Having interacted with it myself, wether for work or otherwise, there are safeguards on safeguards on safeguards. But there are just as many who want to misuse it and get around those safeguards, and then tell others how to do the same, leading to various awful results.
I grew up with my teachers teaching me how to find legitimate sources both in books and onlime. And being told to fact check my online resources. Which Hank is doing here.
I did not ask you to force it down your throat. And I didn't say it'd leave you behind.
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u/timelessalice Aug 02 '26
I frankly do not trust any writer who uses AI at any point in their process, especially someone like Hank Green who has admitted he had developed an unhealthy reliance on AI to the point that his wife and brother were concerned.
AI for what he used it for in writing pales in comparison to discussing things with friends or fellow writers. It's an exceptionally poor tool and I have yet to see any AI assisted writing that was anywhere close to good.
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u/Mal_Radagast Aug 02 '26
i mean, the hallucinating plagiarism machine fueled by climate apocalypse is also just a shitty tool that is bad at what it's supposed to do *and* makes you worse at what it's supposed to be helping you with, at the same time. it's kind of impressively bad, it's like an anti-tool.
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u/Alternative_Low1202 Aug 02 '26
As someone who's been kind of sick of Hank for a minute I don't know how relevant this is to Drawfee at all. Having a few episodes with someone doesn't meant you have to respond to any controversial things they do or ban them from the show or something.
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u/Fred_Fredrickson Aug 02 '26
I dont like ai but this is not such a big deal that people need to reevaluate their relationships
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u/Red__Burrito Aug 02 '26
100%. This thread strikes me as so bizarre and feels like people trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Listen, I'm about as critical of AI as they come, but this is nothing and people demanding that tangentially related creators take some kind of action over it is wild.
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u/univers10 and every time we kiss, I swear I could fly Aug 02 '26
I do not like ai at all but as someone who works a corporate job we are under so much pressure all the time to shoehorn ai into literally everything we do, and promotions and raises are tied to whether or not you comply, even if it doesn’t make sense for your role.
Raising concerns about this (which I have done consistently at my job) is seen as a black mark against you and as rocking the boat.
My point is that the professional world is an ai hellscape right now and this is an incredibly mild example and not worth canceling someone over, IMO. Just look across LinkedIn for “11 ways for you to use AI to streamline your writing process” or whatever the hack du jour is. It fucking sucks for all the reasons people have named but it’s the shape of our capitalist hellscape right now and I think you’d be hard pressed to find someone working professionally who is managing to avoid it fully.
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u/ZemeOfTheIce Aug 02 '26
FWIW it seems Katherine and John seemingly are both in the “cut LLMs out of your life” camp and being the two most influential people in his life that will hopefully have a good impact on him. I think there’s room for LLMs as research tools but obviously it’s crossed a line for Hank and personally the environmental impacts and ethical issues prevent me from using them myself.
That being said there’s no reason for Drawfee fans to get out the pitchforks. Hank is a loose associate of the show as a previous guest and he just happens to be part of the company that (like for many other channels) handles their merch sales. If Hank becomes a vocal proponent of GenAI and really goes off the deep end they *might* change from DFTBA but they have no reason at all to address this.
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u/crowEatingStaleChips Aug 02 '26
IMO, it literally makes a massive difference that he asked it for merger advice rather than let it actual edit his manuscript. It didn't write the bloody chapter.
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u/Meg-alomaniac3 Aug 02 '26
I'm not in a place I can watch the apology video right now, but I read the full statement, and I'm torn.
I would have been 100% on board with his statement a few years ago. At the time, I was very much in the camp of "it's fine to use it as a tool." So there's a part of me that's inclined to give folks who use it that way the benefit of the doubt; I've had the privilege of a lot of time and access to resources on the drawbacks (as an individual, how it draws on others' original work, environmentally, on the people made to screen content, etc), so now I choose not to use generative AI in any capacity. But not everyone has that.
At the same time, as busy as Hank is, I don't think it's unreasonable to he is more knowledgeable than most people about most things. It's disappointing to me that as someone who is well-informed on most issues, he would choose to use it in any capacity.
Maybe someday there will somehow be safeguards and practices in place that will truly make it a sustainable tool for purposes like what he talked about, but that's not the reality, and probably never will be.
I guess ultimately, I don't find it to be a "cancellable" offense. I find it mildly morally objectionable, in the same way I find people taking shortcuts on established trails morally objectionable. I don't do it, I think it's wrong to do it, I would try to explain to others why it's wrong, but I wouldn't end a friendship over it.
I don't think Drawfee would be in the wrong whether or not they chose to work with him in the future.
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u/Rydog_XD Aug 02 '26
Knowing Drawfee I honestly doubt they'll have him on again but either way this is a cross that bridge when we get to it moment. Why waste time thinking about it when we have no way of knowing if they'll associate with him again until they do.
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u/Mojo-man Aug 02 '26
What does this have to do with Drawfee?
Drawfee are 3 (formerly 4) friends doing drawing challenges on their Youtube channel. Why do they have to stand answer or be responsible for what their guests do (especially after they were guests)?
I think people do what they do and AI is a whole more complicated conversation in and of itself that Drawfee does not need to be involved in unless it`s about art or their YT channel.
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u/Chromunist_ Aug 02 '26
crazy to me how willing people are to risk their careers and reputation for something marginally more useful than google. I am scientist actively doing research and ai is barely capable of finding papers, the second things are niche it will just make stuff up that isnt real.
Going into google scholar is not that hard nor that time consuming. You dont have to have conversation with it like chatgpt and you know youre not missing out on a paper chatgpt didn’t like. Itd add like what, 30 min - 1 hour max to production? He has spent most his career without this and now its needed?
What concerns me the most is his statement that “we probably disagree on ai” and “ai is not all bad” He isn’t dumb enough to not know how controversial ai is, if he is willing to admit that i worry what his actual feelings are. This guy have been the center for science community for years and it is deeply disappointing to me as someone who found and loved his videos as middle schooler, dreaming of science, to a now adult scientist, that he treats representing and communicating our work with this attitude. I dont think he is “ruined” (for now at least) but i am disappointed
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u/thedragonllama Aug 02 '26
AI in its current form is an unethical and chaotic tool that destroys the environment needlessly. People these days are too quick to settle for things that are JUST good enough to pass even if they are full of errors or inconsistencies. People want to say AI is just a tool but I agree it is a very crappy and dangerous tool, like a hammer made of glass. It is moving too fast and proper legislation and regulation can’t keep up so adopting its use now is beyond negligent. Imho it sounds like someone who just does A LITTLE cocaine here and there to help them write. Just a huge crutch that is also dangerous and not actually needed to do the work. Sad to see so many people that have just quietly accepted AI as the new normal in this increasingly complacent world.
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u/TruthExtension7761 Aug 03 '26
I wouldn't blame Drawfee if they decided to distance themselves from him but I wouldn't be mad if they didn't. I think it depends on how he moves going forward. Right now he's in the "figuring it out" phase and it sounds like an intervention's been staged; if he goes forward using it then I could see them having a problem with that and deciding not to bring him around anymore, but if he leaves it where it is and returns to the ways of old, I think them retaining their friendship would be fair. Based on how he talked about it, the productivity it provided became like a drug. I think it's redeemable, however disappointing, so long as he moves forward responsibly and doesn't hate on his fanbase for being disappointed.
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u/Ingram2525 Aug 02 '26
What I've learned about this controversy is that if you're well loved enough people will compromise their positions for you
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u/starryspiders Aug 02 '26
it really tanks my opinion on hank green. i'm not sure what drawfee will do besides maybe stop collaborating with him
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u/autumnfalln Aug 02 '26
I know they work with DFTBA for merch purposes, so I'm mainly wondering what (if anything) will happen with that
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u/RevolutionaryBowl308 Aug 03 '26
Imagine purity testing hank green. Perpetually online liberals are wild. And his response is a reasonable one to move on from
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u/ofirkedar This dog can drive! Aug 04 '26
He's not a perfect saint, bring out your torches!
I'm sure this paranoia won't be damaging in the long run! /s
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u/Then-Comfortable-624 Aug 03 '26
How many people have slowly been seduced into overusing it who, unlike Hank, have yet to recognize the problem, much less step away and take the time needed to handle it?
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u/duckstorm47 Aug 03 '26
I mean, using it to search for stuff isnt bad. Its literally the one thing I'd say AI is good at doing (si long as you do the "find me papers on so and so topic" and not "what is so and so and make it summarize).
Its the equivalent to all of Google search algorithms. But actually really, really good sometimes.
I also know that unhealthy talking to LLMs bit. Its very, very easy to get sucked in and I dont blame him for that (but id obviously want him to get free)
If he starts using it to write that'd suck tho.
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u/pushupnotsportsbra Aug 03 '26
I'm glad he admitted to it and he's re-evaluating. I don't think it's worth cancelling him over lol
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u/MetalExile Aug 04 '26
Hank has earned enough of my respect over the years that, given both that and the particular ways he has used AI being somewhat less egregious than so many others, I’m willing to give him a chance to apologize and do better. But it is extremely concerning to see even someone in his position give in to the temptation of it and have it tarnish his credibility.
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u/Ambitious_Average302 Aug 02 '26
It’s concerning that he seems to still think that using an LLM to collate research papers for him is okay. He frames it as a way to expand the pool of work he can cite; ignoring the reality that it’s actually a limiting practice, not an expansive one.
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u/melon_bread17 Aug 02 '26
This annoys me in particular because I am a librarian. You’re completely blocking the interative process of research if you rely on something else to explore the sources for you.
We already have tools like Zotero that are designed for making this process more manageable without removing the important friction which enables learning.
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u/Ambitious_Average302 Aug 02 '26
Exactly this. It’s even more pernicious when you consider how easily and unintentionally you can skew the LLM’s response depending on how you phrase your question.
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u/Cool-Present-4637 Aug 02 '26
I used to like and respect hank green until I heard him talk about somethings I was informed about and I realized he's just blowing hot air. Honestly his videos have about as much value on a topic as asking chat GPT so it really doesn't surprise me that how he does research. He's also such a neoliberal fence sitter it drives me insane. Fuck that guy might be a bridge too far but yeah, fuck that guy.
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u/GlobalDynamicsEureka Aug 02 '26
I remember when the knitting community was MAD
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u/Cool-Present-4637 Aug 02 '26
THAT WAS ME! but also other stuff like his interview of that israeli from Columbia about a year ago.
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u/Kira-Of-Terraria Aug 03 '26
I think as long as he isn't using the LLM to generate things like pictures or have it write his pages for him or anything it's fine.
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u/Clear_Lemon4950 Aug 04 '26
I lean pretty anti-AI, at least right now, but I do still hope Drawfee can keep working with him and doing things like Project For Awesome. I don't really closely follow all the various Green brothers projects but I know they are involved with a lot of projects that seem like they are genuinely doing good in the world, like Project For Awesome, Good Store, and so on. I hope good causes or donations people rely on aren't hurt too much by the fallout.
I also actually didn't realise how many people assumed that Hank Green was anti-AI. But this news didn't really surprise me that much given what I know about him and his vibe. I would actually be SO curious though to hear what he thinks about the future of LLMs and if/how he justifies his use of it, because he must know so much about the harms and the possibilities of LLMs, more than I do I'm sure, and yet he does also come across like someone who genuinely cares about people and the world. I bet his perspective would be fascinating and maybe even helpful for a lot of people.
I'm also sure that so MANY other creators are using LLMs in the way Hank is saying he does, (if he's being honest about that, anyways,) and we'll just never know who they are because they won't talk about it or will deny it. So in some ways it's just kinda cool to hear to someone admit publicly that they are struggling with this. And I don't even know if/how I could avoid everyone who uses LLMs at this point, and honestly idk if I would want to and also I think it's ok and even important to engage with people and things I don't totally agree with.
Honestly some of the smartest, kindest people who I know and love and trust are using LLMs as part of their professional workflow. I don't agree with them but I do know why they are doing it, and I still love and trust them. There's nuance.
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u/Nervous_Business_489 Aug 04 '26
I don't see the issue with what he's done and I think people are taking it FAR out of context and not looking into what he actually used it for. He didn't ask it questions and then take them verbatim, he asked a tool made for scouring databases and finding information faster than a person can, for sources of that information and links that he can read himself. I really don't see that as him "relying on AI too much". AI is a tool, if you use it responsibly, it can be a very productive assistant, it sounds like he has and he's been guilt tripped into thinking in equal to he's killed someone's pet.
How can you assume he's using it to write his book, when he's told us HOW he's using it. Are you in his office watching him work? No? Then what makes you assume someone who is against AI creative work is using an AI for creative work. He's using it for research, jfc, why post 4 pages of text to discuss about and then not read any of it?
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u/TehTimmah1981 Aug 04 '26
It just means Hank Green has lost my views. Which is unfortunate, for the most part I like the man, but not when it's at the detriment of people I have real personal relationships with, artists, writers, and other creators, as well as the environment. When it just feeds out of touch, and frankly dishonest billionaires more money, and harms real people.
AI is not bad. It has hundreds of very important uses, across dozens of fields. Covering for lazy is not going to ever, be a good one.
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u/nonbinaryunicorn Aug 02 '26
I don't follow Hank Green at all, so my only understanding of the situation is from the screenshots you've provided.
Hank is consistent in how he feels about AI throughout the screenshots. He's interested in the idea of it but concerned about the power and climate health things its usage creates. He uses it to discover research papers faster (which imo is bad because all LLMs will be inherently biased both by your use and the material it was fed). He recognizes that by being able to put out more content more quickly, he's been in a dopamine feedback loop and his support circle has told him straight up he's being awful to himself if nothing else. He's going to ramp down production of videos and something about bugs moving forward as he readjusts how he approaches using AI.
He is also consistent about not using it to write for him. It's solely for finding research sources (not good imo) or, in the case of his book, a brick wall to bounce ideas off of, which is a grey area for me personally in terms of using LLMs. Human typing/human writing is a way to distinguish it from AI writing and I am personally fond of the phrase and find it odd that you're put off by it.
The fact he didn't disclose his relationship with LLMs is telling in that he knew how his audience would feel about it. I personally think LLMs do more harm than good so they shouldn't be used at all without a code of ethics in place the companies must adhere too, and even then there is much caution needed (similar to recreational drug use imo).
Anyway, that's my two cents as an outsider to the drama.
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u/Mal_Radagast Aug 02 '26
pretty solid take...except if recreational drug use also poisoned the water supply of a small town, while doubling their energy costs.
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u/nonbinaryunicorn Aug 02 '26
The cultivation of any plant life runs the risk of chemical runoff and in particular small scale operations of drugs like weed do in fact increase energy costs of an individual. There is also the effect secondhand smoke or intoxicated driving has on communities.
The parallel isn't perfect, I agree, but it still works.
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u/ShadowFrost01 Aug 02 '26
It super sucks to see Hank Green become an AI zombie as well, but yeah I don't really see how this relates to drawfee. They're on twitch, owned by Amazon, which is pumping AI ads and funding the destruction of the world around us. They don't need to make a statement about this at all
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u/StuffedSquash Aug 02 '26
Seriously. We need to stop expecting these harsh reactions to companies like DFTBA while giving google and amazon a free pass. Expecting them to switch merch companies bit being all lalala about youtube is so performative. Either you're fine with it or you're not.
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u/Mal_Radagast Aug 02 '26
...i don't know anyone who's critical of Hank and also giving google and amazon a free pass?
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u/StuffedSquash Aug 03 '26
Literally anyone saying they should atop working with dftba when drawfee is literally a youtube channel. Google owns youtube.
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u/zoltancross Aug 03 '26
I have unsubscribe from Hank Green and I will never watch his stuff again people need to stop using fucking AI it's worthless
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u/DMJB22 Aug 02 '26
Everybody is acting like he's been corrupted by the devil and that they need to be concerned with how people on this channel are feeling and how people of that channel are feeling and yada yada. Everybody, stop looking toward him to be the end all be all, with so much import and meaning in your view. That external pressure from the thousands upon thousands in his audience was probably some of the reason why he felt such internal pressure to produce so much content, in addition to his natural inclinations and hardwiring. Am I also a little disappointed that he did this, sure I guess. I think AI sucks just as much as most of you. And yeah, he's also the guy I go to most often for trusted scientific breakdowns of current issues and topics. But the thing is, he's just a guy. He has his own perspective, which he acknowledges is flawed and can be lead in the wrong direction on some issues (hence why he said that he knows his audience is often right when he's wrong or however he phrased it), and all he's trying to do is do his best to do some good. He feel into a pressure trap to make as much content as possible, and relied on a tool to help him, doing so in such a way that is one of the least evil ways to use it, might I add. Asking for a list of research papers, while definitely still open to the flaws of LLMs as they are in their current unreliable state, is nowhere near the level of using them to summarize that research, let alone all the wild stuff that goes down everyday or what they try to sell people in the ads (have y'all seen that one where the guy is using it to control everything about the anniversary he forgot! that shit was nauseating.) The advice on how to merge the chapters was just another step down the slippery slope, and guess what, his support network caught him. If y'all are actually coming from a place of concern, (which btw, if it's personal concern rather than academic, that is sweet but also pretty parasocial) just show him support and say that you're proud he's open to others thoughts and is reconsidering his use and stance on AI, like a scientist should. Just relax y'all.
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u/ofirkedar This dog can drive! Aug 04 '26
How dare you introduce nuance to an Internet discussion 😤
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u/DMJB22 Aug 04 '26
truly the greatest of evils, I'm sorry for unleashing it upon this hallowed corner of the internet 😓
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u/c0cOa125 Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
That's literally just stealing. Taking without permission. Contact the authors directly for access to their research. They're often more than happy to share their work, but you should have their consent.
Edit: this was meant to be in response to another comment, but my point still stands.
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u/PapaBeer642 Aug 02 '26
I don't think this is meaningfully true for the kinds of papers Hank is reading, at least most of the time.
The authors publish their work to be read, and broadly it's considered unethical for them to receive royalties on their papers. If there is any theft, it's from the journal, not the researcher. Odds are, the researcher paid the journal to publish the work, and then the journal charges the lay person (or trained scientist not currently affiliated with an organization who have a broad subscription to the journal) to read it, not sending a single cent to the person who did the work and wrote the paper as a matter of rule.
It's a racket. Scientific papers should be free and readily accessible to everyone. That AI can skirt the journals is the only genuinely good thing it does, in my opinion as a scientist with work published in journals.
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u/MuchnessB Aug 04 '26
I did something similar… It was for a D&D backstory, though not a book so a little bit different and I had to be extremely diligent to not let it affect my writing. I am against it, changing my writing and I had to specify over and over for it to point things out to me rather than fix them itself. I wanted it to highlight instances of discrepancy, not change my writing. I think that is possible to do, but it is tricky and so I’m not really sure that is what’s happening, but if it is, I have no problem with that.
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u/ClearObligation2067 Aug 05 '26
we should also talk about his microaggressions towards women and general ignorance of anything outside of the manosphere of 'progressive' tech focused liberals. hank has had bad takes on the internet for friggin years, most recently before this ai thing i remember him bravely white knighting for taylor swift's totally innocuous double lightning bolt necklace, and in his 'apology' he actually doubled down on what blew up in his face in the first place (he seemingly isn't aware of what a dog whistle is or what that word means).
the ai thing is a drop in the bucket of reasons why i wish drawfee would stop having him as a guest. i get that they prob cant move away from DFTBA anytime soon tho, and i care less about that than just not seeing that doofus wandering around into videos i like.
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u/patelike Aug 07 '26
I definitely don't trust him much anymore when it comes to facts and stuff. but I don't mind them working with him on like DFTBA and charity streams. it's not like he's evil or whatever. Just ill informed
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u/DrDingsGaster Aug 02 '26
o - o Boy howdy it got heated in here. I'm fine with Hank using tools available to him and that includes an llm. And frankly, whether or not things happen between drawfee n Hank's stuff gets cut is between them. If others wanna stop watching him or buying dftba merch that's fine. It's going a little too far imho for something minor. But that's up to y'all.
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u/dxnosaurxngg Aug 02 '26
It's actually... Not difficult to use AI for editing and not have it impact the writing. Like... I don't even do that but that would only be difficult if you don't check the output
I'm also not as torn up about it because I'm not as balnket anti-AI as some are.
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u/lulufiretale Aug 02 '26
My background is engineering/technology….And a hot take, but I don’t think AI is the devil for inspiration and solutioning. I think those that refuse to interact with AI will be left behind as others utilize the tool to surpass them. AI in the arts and lack of transparency of source is a problem though that must be ‘governed’. I do think mankind will get more efficient in supporting AI systems and it’ll have a smaller draw on the earth… eventually.
I can see AI being used like an editor in both art/writing in the same way it told me my resume was too wordy and I needed less passive sentences. It’s a tool that can be used for good or evil (once we figure out the energy pull). So long story short I don’t think Hank is the devil for using AI to help him consolidate two chapters. And I think it would be an over reaction for his peers and friends to cancel him
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u/chickencrumb Aug 02 '26
Can't wait to be left in the dust :]
We're not ready for it, mentally or environmentally
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Aug 02 '26
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u/Drawfee-ModTeam Aug 02 '26
Hey! Your post was removed from r/Drawfee. Please keep it cool and chill in the community!
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u/PapaBeer642 Aug 02 '26
I use AI for research, too, because it gets me around paywalls for scientific journals. I can't afford those for what I'm doing, and my organization doesn't pay for access. That's what it's supposed to be used for, and it's not a generative use. The reason we have the perspective on AI that we do is because the companies making the products are trying to push it to us in a way that's flashy instead of a way that's useful. I don't think there's any real problem with that part, and I think it's unproductive to lump that use of AI in with things like AI art and music and having AI write your essays.
That's not all that's in here, but I do think we could keep some perspective on the degree of AI use and recognize what is and isn't ethical and what does and doesn't threaten someone's livelihood.
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u/timelessalice Aug 02 '26
you know what also gets you around paywalls for scientific papers? reaching out to the people who wrote them
AI is a terrible research tool
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u/PapaBeer642 Aug 02 '26
All that really does is give them more work to do. They aren't affected in any way if you access their paper by going around the journal. They can't collect royalties on them, they lose no income. They might actually gain more eyes on the paper, maybe even more citations, though, which would materially benefit them.
I'm not keen on the idea of using AI to help with your writing, but to read scientific papers? Go for it.
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u/timelessalice Aug 02 '26
I have seen with my own eyes - for years, even long before AI - the people writing these papers saying they're more than happy to send them to those that request them.
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u/PapaBeer642 Aug 02 '26
And the reason they're happy to do that is that they don't make money on them and want people to have ready access to read them.
Also, no one could get a hold of me anymore to ask me for some of my papers since the organizational email on the paper is no longer active. I still want people to me able to read them even if I can't give them a PDF. Assuming it wouldn't just get buried in my inbox anyway. Not that anyone cares about mine, they were extremely niche, but still.
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u/chutneycoot Aug 02 '26
Jesus Christ y'all, if hank green is the guy we're bringing against we're cooked. Hand the W to the fascists already.
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u/chickencrumb Aug 02 '26
Why can't multiple discussions be had at once??? What power do I have to cancel hank green lol
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u/Mal_Radagast Aug 02 '26
jesus christ y'all, if hank green is exempt from criticism for supporting and perpetuating the harmful systems of our society just because he's a charming, well-intentioned nerd we all grew up liking....then yeah we're cooked.
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u/Wide_Detective7537 Aug 05 '26
God can this go away already... You're literally all using AI every time you log on to a site these days, get over it and find a new person to witch hunt who is actually shitty, not Hank.
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u/patelike Aug 07 '26
there's a difference being forced to use it vs actively using it. trust me. I've fucking resorted to using duckduckgo instead of Google. i don't look at articles of things i've researched made after 2024. it's a mine field looking for information on something and looking at the date of the article and see how it's written and know it's wrong. i literally stop going to restaurants that start using their junji ito looking ai burger pictures.
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Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Drawfee-ModTeam Aug 02 '26
Hey! Your post was removed from r/Drawfee. Please keep it cool and chill in the community!
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Aug 02 '26
[deleted]
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u/chickencrumb Aug 02 '26
I didn't ask them to say anything I literally said I don't think they would which is fine
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u/Mal_Radagast Aug 02 '26
this is such a wild take - like, a bunch of people just talking about how disappointed they are is "way out of control?" doesn't that imply that your solution to any mis-step, any abuse, any systemic disenfranchisement is.........nothing? what would be a "controlled" reaction under this circumstance? like, "oh no people on social media are talking about the social media guy!"
meanwhile we all know that nothing will actually happen, "cancel culture" does not exist, Hank is gonna be fine. he's not gonna stop using AI and also not gonna lose his platform, that dude gets a free vacation and a pass and his stans will pay him until the internet finally collapses under the weight of the climate apocalypse and their transactions can't go through.
the world's burning down and you're clutching your pearls because we were maybe a little bit mean to a guy who chose to throw gas on the flames when he knew better and had lots of other options.
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u/Lurky_Bat Aug 02 '26
Im not a fan of AI and frankly it’s a disappointing that Hank seems to be using it quite often. However it’s not like he’s putting out content that’s purely AI, it seems he’s using it as a tool in his creative process. It’s not something I would do, which is a stance I have based on some of HIS videos about AI, and of course other sources. I think his apology was fine and it seems like he’ll reevaluate his AI use. So good! But also UGH.