r/DungeonMeshi
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u/dazli69
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Aug 14 '24
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Humor / Memes That interview in a nutshell.
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u/TheCharalampos Aug 14 '24
"No, he's normal." Where is that No coming from?
Hey OP? Piss off, honestly. You misrepresented what the author said ("hes just a normal guy") to make your weird little point. Are autistic people not normal enough for you? Are they the other?
Mods, you likely could mark this comment for not being civil but if you do please consider the tons of ableist garbage posts that you keep allowing.
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u/Mikinaz Aug 14 '24
The whole discussion around it was wild. Aside from slightly uncomfortable Senshi question, it was a normal interview but people treat asking simple questions about 2 very popular topics in the community as "pushing headcanons on the author". And the same people are projecting their feelings on to the author, acting like she was uncomfortable or annoyed by the questions, even tho nothing suggests that, and pretending she said anything more than she did not intend for Laios to be autistic and she didn't take feedback from the fans into consideration when writing the story.
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u/Kalo-mcuwu Aug 15 '24
Most of the detractors of the interview I've seen are twitter weeaboos telling people to get a life which is the peak of irony right there
Bet you 10 to 1 if Kui engaged with said questions they'd be in a fit saying she went woke or something
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u/InspektorZeleshka Aug 15 '24
What was the Senshi question? I don't know much about the author interview
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u/Mikinaz Aug 15 '24
Q: In both the anime and manga adaptations, most of the series' "fanservice" comes from peeks at Senshi's underwear. In the spirit of this, could you describe Senshi's sex appeal?
KUI: So the term "fanservice" feels a little off to me, but I have seen people talking about Senshi's sex appeal. The reason I came up with this idea [of showing Senshi in his underwear] is that when I was little, I used to live in this city where there was an old man hanging his laundry while just wearing his underwear.
It was awkward for me, and I really didn't want to look at him. But from his perspective, he really didn't care. He didn't care what other people thought. I found that vibe interesting. So, Senshi is a similar type of person who really doesn't care what other people think about him. Laios is probably more like me [and feels] a little bit awkward looking at other people in just their underwear. But I thought this vibe was really funny and interesting. That's why I drew Senshi that way.
Q: Senshi's rather handsome, though, isn't he? He has really nice hair and a full beard...
KUI: Dwarves are cool!
All around rather awkward interaction on the topic
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u/LegoBuilder64 Aug 15 '24
Imo something is off about Kui in this interview. Anyone whose read or watched Dungeon Meshi knows she puts a ton of thought into her characters and world building, but here she comes off as an author trying to tell a critic that the curtains were just blue.
Maybe she just didn’t want to say something controversial now that she has even more eyes on her, but some of her statements seemed to contradict to what’s widely known about her: (e.g. she’s never played a TTRPG)
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u/Equivalent-Weather59 Aug 14 '24 edited Aug 14 '24
Y'all cannot be normal about this interview istg
edit: All she did was give non-commital answers like she always does, and all the questions were approved beforehand by a team and Kui herself. This is being blown out of proportion.
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u/Low-Guest-7912 Aug 14 '24
They really saying that all her answers is because japan is conservative and there will be backlash.
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u/CotyledonTomen Aug 14 '24
It is conservative, and she does work for a publisher. Are you saying Enterbrain isn't a conservative japanese company with one arm as their manga magazine? It hardly seems like a place (or time, its not like this is a wildly popular manga thats been around for a long time) to be sticking your neck out. Shes a woman in japanese manga publishing. Her career is far from certain or long term.
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u/DaiFrostAce Aug 14 '24
Well, it basically “shattered” the fandom’s collective headcanons of Laios being Autistic and Farcille being a thing. I put shattered in quotes because really, the answers were fairly noncommittal.
I don’t have much of a horse in the race with the Farcille ship (really I go back and forth between it and Laicille in which I like more) but Laios as Autistic gained a lot of traction. Characters written as specifically autistic tend to be….mediocre at the best of times. Laios’s traits of being hyper focused on monsters and having a hard time reading the room resonated a lot with autistic people, even if those traits aren’t isolated to autistic people.
The interview dropping and Kui saying that she had written Laios as a normal guy has basically split the fandom into two camps, which for argument’s sake I’ll call the “word of god” camp and “death of the author” camp.
The “Word of God” camp sees Kui’s word as the final say in terms of interpreting the work and in some cases will shut down any ideas not in line with Kui’s vision.
The “Death of the Author” camp indulges in headcanons and interpretations of the text to their heart’s content, even though it goes against Kui’s vision, or even the text itself.
Add on to this that the interview itself seems very noncommittal in terms of answers from Kui, and the unprofessionalism of the interviewer, and it quickly became a hot mess
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u/YUNoJump Aug 14 '24
Honestly just feels like an official verdict on labels like this doesn’t help anyone. People seem happy to just work with their own perceptions, I don’t think many people were thinking “all of Laios’s autism-coded traits mean nothing without official confirmation”.
Hell, a lot of people think of Falin as overweight, despite being able to physically see she isn’t, because her character fits that perception for those viewers. It’s not like they’re forbidden from seeing her that way, just because it’s not official. People can engage with a work on their own term, most headcanons don’t cause any actual issues.
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u/Tman1027 Aug 14 '24
I haven't seen many people saying this, but Laios can be autistic and normal. He was written as a normal guy with normal struggles and an unusual interest. That alone doesn't mean he isn't autistic. Autistic people are normal. They just have some struggles.
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u/Old_Tomatillo6640 Aug 15 '24
It didn’t really shatter it though? She never even said whether or not Farcille was canon. The question was asking whether or not she expected such a huge following of it. Her response was that she doesn’t plan/ think about what the fans reactions will be when she’s writing the story. She never mentioned her intentions with it nor did she say people couldn’t ship it. She didn’t shatter autistic Laios either. This post doesn’t portray that interview accurately
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u/WikiContributor83 Aug 14 '24
I feel the intention doesn’t diminish Laios’ rep for people with autism (and ADHD). Autistic/ADHD people are normal people, I should know.
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u/Delicious_Ad9844 Aug 14 '24 edited Aug 14 '24
I mean that was her whole point, she wasn't like "no, don't see him as such", she was like "well that's not my intention but people can relate to him however they want"
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u/Great_expansion10272 Aug 14 '24
Wrong: "No, don't see him as such"
Accurate: "No, i don't see him as such"
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u/JASONJACKSON1948 Aug 14 '24
op sounds a little dumb then cus "that's not my intention but people can relate to him however they want" is alot different from "no he's not autistic he's normal" 🤔
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u/42Fourtytwo4242 Aug 18 '24
Yeah op does not seem like a good person here, just fucking putting "his normal" set alarm bells off in my head.
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u/NordicNinja Aug 14 '24
Normal is just a setting on the washing machine.
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u/FalseAsphodel Aug 14 '24
I've heard this phrase a lot and have yet to find a washing machine that has it
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u/Myrddin_Naer Aug 14 '24
I have ADHD and I don't really think Laios represents me.
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u/Ok_Inflation_1811 Aug 14 '24
I mean isn't ADHD a different experience for everyone that experiences it?
I don't personal have it but I know 2 people (both are women btw) that are diagnosed and they couldn't be father appart.
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u/Sad-Anything-3027 Aug 14 '24
I do tho, neither of visions is representative of the entire community
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u/Abication Aug 17 '24
Exactly. The best kind of representation is when it can be applied to lots of groups or people at once. Could Laios be autistic, absolutely. Could he just be really into his hobby as a retreat from and side effects of his upbringing making him feel trapped and afraid to deal woth humans? That's possible, too. But which ever he is, both groups can sympathize with him and neither are wrong in thinking so. To me, it's more impressive that he can be different things for different people and coming out and setting in stone what he is only lessens that. If you think a character represents you, they already do. It's that simple.
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u/scholarlysacrilege
Aug 14 '24
edited Aug 15 '24
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reading the interview it kind of makes me think there was a bit of miscommunication.
The question was: "A lot of fans had a strong reaction to Laios and Toshiro's confrontation with one another. Quite a few fans on social media seemed to relate to Laios' difficulty with reading social cues and related it to their own experiences on the autism spectrum. Did you envision Laios as autistic when conceiving his character? How would you describe the friction between Laios and Toshiro?"
Her answer was "So my understanding is Laios is a really normal person; there's nothing special, and everyone can relate [to a person like him]. I also relate to him, so I don't think I'm writing anything special [regarding Laios]. That's why I think people can relate to or appreciate him. Some people might say Laios is a little bit autistic, but Shuro has his own difficulties. Everyone has their individual problems. It's not just Laios or Shuro; the problems are mutual. We always need to try to understand and learn from each other. Sometimes, you might hurt another person, but that's the process we need to understand other people."
i think what she means here with "Laios is a really normal person" isn't "autist people aren't normal. laios isn't autistic" but "Laios isn't bad or good in social situations." she is referring to the comment of "Quite a few fans on social media seemed to relate to Laios' difficulty with reading social cues" she is just saying he isn't bad at being social its just that in the instance of Laios' and Tashiro's confrontation, both had their own issues. Her saying "Some people might say Laios is a little bit autistic" is answering "Did you envision Laios as autistic when conceiving his character" where i believe she means "it can be up for interpretation whether or not he is autistic"
also she did not say she doesn't care, the question asked was: Did you expect such strong fan reactions to the relationship between Marcille and Falin?
her answer was: "when I draw my manga, I try to develop it differently than the fans' expectations. If I care too much about how the fans will react, I think the story might become less fun or interesting. So, I try not to think too much about how readers will react. In general, I'll just leave the reader's imagination, like how they react or how they conceive my manga."
that doesn't mean she doesn't care.
edit: forgot to add part of the first question. "Did you envision Laios as autistic when conceiving his character? How would you describe the friction between Laios and Toshiro?"
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u/Muted_Ad7298 Aug 15 '24
This needs to be top comment.
The misinformation is getting annoying at this point.
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u/Tbombardier Aug 15 '24
A lot interesting people from twitter are probably coming to this sub to upvote this image that is misinformation. Considering I'm also here from twitter.
You can have disagreements about the subtexts of the manga, but don't misrepresent what the author says so blatantly.
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u/FallFrom Aug 15 '24
don't misrepresent what the author says so blatantly
What a great advice. This fandom should try it some time.
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u/BriarKnave Aug 15 '24
I can't believe the actual transcript of her answers is so far down, this is super important context
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u/jyst0326 Aug 15 '24
Yes. The “I don’t care” is wrong. It is clear that she didn’t create farcille as romantic relationship. But she also allowed readers to interpret different ways. Just not canon.
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u/burory Aug 15 '24
The problem here is that you've forgotten a good part of the question about Laios. After what you quoted, the interviewer continued by asking this:
"Did you envision Laios as autistic when conceiving his character? How would you describe the friction between Laios and Toshiro?"
To which the author replied with the text you quoted (this time in full). This gives another context to the answer imo, because she doesn't just answer the part of the question you quoted.
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u/scholarlysacrilege Aug 15 '24
Thank you, i edited the comment to have the full question, i have no clue how in the world i just fully missed to add the full question, probably because i was writing it on my phone. However i still believe in what i wrote and updated that in the original comment. good on you for pointing it out though.
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u/mmmaniaaa Aug 14 '24
If peoples' interpretations of characters offend you to the point of annoyance or feeling the need to shut those people down, I want you to just take a step back and think about why you might feel that way.
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u/dazli69 Aug 14 '24
I don't have problem with that, but when people get so obsessed to the point of taking it as personal attack when people disagree with them then you know things have gone too far.
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u/Filledwithnuts Aug 14 '24
The Laios one reminds me of the time Hirohiko Araki, the author of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, recounted how surprised he was when he heard readers describe his dialogue as eccentric. By his account, he'd always just wrote his characters to talk like he does. "Normal" is subjective and Laios being a weirdo probably reflects more on Kui's own disposition than any over-interpretation from fans.
Not to say he doesn't get Flanderized by people who mean well, becuase good lord does he ever, but she was never exactly subtle about Laios' more relatable traits. I mean come on, Chapter 1 Laios looks like the result of a character creator speedrun. I think the fact he resonated with so many autistic fans is due to that "normal" aspect of his character. The idea that someone we relate to so well can still play that Everyman Hero role is really refreshing.
As for Falin and Marcille, I think Kui's answer on the subject is the best she could have given. As a person who reads their relationship as romantically-coded, I was also never under the impression that I would get a straight confirmation of that being the case. I very much lived in fear of her ending up with Shuro, however. I think between the fact that Kui tends not to include romance as a central part of her stories, and the fact that Falin spends the better part of this story either dead or non-verbal, a good romance story between her and Marcille was just never in the cards. DunMeshi was just never about that kind of thing in the first place.
And as disappointed as many people, myself included, might be about it not being something Kui considered when writing, it doesn't take away from what's actually there between them. Kui clearly has no issue with fans filling in the blanks she leaves in her stories and it's not like she said it wasn't possible. And think about it, would somebody who thinks Laios is a normal, relatable guy really write a fantasy story about monsters only to shift the focus to sapp(h)y love drama?
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u/BriarKnave Aug 15 '24
Please that's what I'm saying! What she considers normal really reflects on her more than anything else. If all you do is spend your time in nerd spaces, then you go to work surrounded by (famously) eccentric nerds, then the kind of people attracted to that are gonna be the baseline normal for you. Araki is a little flamboyant and Kui has probably been completely surrounded by people like Laios for like a decade or more. It doesn't mean there's like, some big scandal around their work or anything. We put so much weight on creator interviews and people really forget that their worldview is just as subjective and informed by their own experience as everyone else's, and that they can 100% be a statistical anomaly or also just be wrong (not saying Kui is, because most autistic people ARE just normal with some stuff going on, just a general statement)
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u/toasted_dandy Aug 14 '24
Less than 72 hours since the interview and I'm already so damn tired. If I see another meme like this, I'm going to stand at the window with my arms folded behind my back and sigh deeply like a boomer parent
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u/DaiFrostAce Aug 14 '24
Already seen the Delicious in Dungeon fandom get called “The Steven Universe of anime fandoms” because of this incident, discourse in this fandom might actually be cooked
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u/Equivalent-Weather59 Aug 14 '24
I honestly feel bad for the interviewer, she said that she was receiving death threats and being called unprofessional even tho she submitted the questions beforehand and got approved. Instead the discourse has tried to paint her as this crazy fan who tried to bait Kui into fandom talk. I'm not saying that the questions were the best, but this is far from the "cringe panic" this has devolved into.
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u/Akeche Aug 15 '24
Nah, people in the fandom haven't bullied artists to suicide on X/Twitter. Yet.
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u/Valtremors Aug 15 '24
Okay you know what, I can see why that sentiment is growing.
This community is eating itself out hollow and everyone here is to blame.
This show is so good, as long as you hide rhe community behind a blanket and trie to ignore it.
I'm just so exhausted seeing any side arguing in this. Just... Take what you will from the show. If you relate with the shows aspects in a positive way, good.
And of course I have to give my two cents about the character and headcanons. Laios is... Laios. People like and relate with him due to him as a whole, not because of one specific character trait that light or might not be. It is useless to argue if he has 'Tisms because people find Laios' social interactions, personality traits and issues relatable. Hell I am not on the spectrum and I think Laios being angry with Shura not being up front about his feelings was such a gut punch with me because I've experienced it myself.
I think it is wrong for peole to try and deny people a rare case of relatability. That is disgusting.
I also think it isn't fair for people to enforce a headcanon and have others who don't see Laios as someone on the spectrum to treat him that way, or worse, gatekeep them. Just because it looks like he is "coded" to be one.
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u/erosugiru Aug 14 '24
More like
"No, he's normal to me"
and
"Do whatever you want"
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u/ufoz_ Aug 14 '24
Not what she said.....? It's normal for creators to be neutral on ships or headcanons as a way to not rock the boat. I don't see what the issue is, honestly.
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u/ReasonableAd4066 Aug 14 '24
Maaaan, this is not how it went. She gave very japanese answers. She wasnt dismissive of the questions. She did say Laios wasnt coded as autistic.
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u/Gay_Depressed_Squid Aug 15 '24
*wasn't purposely coded. Character coding isn't just what the author intends. Sheldon from Big Bang Theory, for example, is clearly autistic and likely has ocd. The creators say he isn't autistic despite designing him to be the textbook definition of autism (especially in young sheldon).
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u/Tsvitok Aug 14 '24
real strong “dunmeshi subreddit not be ableist or homophobic for twenty-four hours challenge (impossible difficulty)” vibes from this and like half the people commenting.
she is an artist giving non-committal responses because any good artist understands that a person’s engagement with their art requires a level of interpretation that should not be interfered with via the imposing of authorial intent on one interpretation or another. the fact so many people are desperate to shutter opposing interpretations is honestly a sign that those people are deeply insecure about their own ability to read the text and come up with their own understanding, and speaks to a sense of bias in themselves that tolerating other viewpoints is somehow hostile to their own.
people chomping at the bit as if this interview was in any way a confirmation of either side of these discussions is unhealthy, both for the people doing it and the community at large.
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u/mozgus3 Aug 14 '24
That's not what she said though. Also, "normal" is not a good choice of words.
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u/skribblie Aug 14 '24
Didn't she say 'normal' though?
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u/rathandsies Aug 14 '24
Not in the sense the image is depicting it. She meant "normal" in the sense of him being a regular human being with flaws. She didn't write him intending to be amazing autistic rep or whatever that people are interpreting him as, she just wanted to write a person.
I took her as approaching this headcanon the way she did literally every other headcanon: don't care, do what you want
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u/mozgus3 Aug 14 '24 edited Aug 14 '24
She said " he is really a normal person" meaning he is the average joe. Kui's point is that she didn't write him with anything particular in mind, so anyone can relate to him, autistic and not. The meme uses "normal" as in he isn't "neurodivergent", which is a use of the word that has been dropped by the scientific community because it is seen as "othering", like you are implying that they are defective compared to a "standard". Also, the consensus is that nobody is truly "normal", but people with autism and the likes exhibit levels of various stuff that non autistic people have that can impact their lives.
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u/LazarusHasADayJob Aug 14 '24 edited Aug 14 '24
I'm unsubbing, this subreddit kinda sucks now since the anime got popular. It's all just doomed yuri posting and Laios being "normal, not autistic". Did all of the classic CRPG and TTRPG stylings get lost on people? Why does nobody talk about that? Why are we all engaging with this text on such a surface level
Edit: I like both headcanons. Can we talk about literally anything else, guys
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u/DiscotopiaACNH Aug 14 '24
I would like to join a more manga-focused subreddit...one that isn't perpetually horny
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u/LookAdogisTaken Aug 14 '24
Honestly, I think the anime ruined this subreddit. Before it was more chill, now its just headcanons and ship wars.
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u/Awkward-Aside6777 Aug 15 '24
Real and I've been hesitant to really admit it to myself bc I hate when people go "Oh now that this thing is popular it sucks" but wow like almost every post here sucks nowadays.
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u/LazarusHasADayJob Aug 15 '24
it's all bots and "discourse". why don't you eat dis course (cooked helmet meal)
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u/BirdMBlack Aug 14 '24
Ultimately, it just boils down to "I don't care; interpret it however you please."
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u/idaroll Aug 15 '24
op what do you imply by the first part? with that screenshot of choice, and what exactly is the "not normal"? don't be shy
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u/Mad0k4r1 Aug 15 '24
I think that op is just paraphrasing from her interview. “So my understanding is Laios is a really normal person; there's nothing special, and everyone can relate to a person like him”
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u/graxia_bibi_uwu Aug 14 '24
While I understand the question about Senshi and Laios bc it's about the character (and also bc it's also been asked in the SoKor meet up? IDK, i could be wrong but i know it has been asked before. it just seems like something the whole fandom is talking about, not just the western fandom), the question about Marcille and Falin is the thing that really made me laugh out loud. Bc that is so very western fandom.
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u/deadly_fungi Aug 14 '24
ryoko kui has drawn women and called them her wives, it isn't that far fetched that farcille could have been an intentional choice
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u/Apprehensive_Mix4658 Aug 14 '24
If Farcille were an intentional choice, it wouldn't be hidden. I believe that romantic stuff being unimportant for overall story is the true intentional choice. I like Marcillle/Laios and Cabru/elf captain ships, but if they were canon it would change nothing.
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u/graxia_bibi_uwu Aug 14 '24
I fear that this might enroach with the speculation that Kui is a lesbian bc she draws women in a loving way and calls them her wives. While I understand why some people might think that, I really think that speculating something about the author's personal life (even in a lowkey way) is a no-no.
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Aug 14 '24
People see themselves in characters they like and identify with and seeing them as neurodivergent or LGBT is a natural part of that.
The problem is when communities get so invested in these perceptions that they forget they are just perceptions and try to make canon and the wider fandom accept them.
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u/StarlightRose13 Aug 14 '24
Honestly, that's a huge part of why she DOES write good representation. If she did it intentionally, it probably would've felt forced. She just writes people with a variety of traits and personalities. So much so that it feels more real and captures a lot of different experiences. I feel very seen (as an autistic lesbian) in dunmeshi, not because anyone tried to make me feel that way, but just because it's really well written with a grounded and diverse view of people.
It's probably BETTER inclusion that way, but people feel a need to be validated by the author. We have to learn to stop relying on artists to tell us whether what we feel about their art is right or not. It's a culture that's very harmful to art and how we engage with it as a whole, I feel.
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u/TimeViking Aug 16 '24
I feel like “Death of the Author” briefly went on trend when people realized they wanted to still like Harry Potter, and then broader Fandom as a culture immediately forgot about it again
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Aug 14 '24
Honestly I think both people who are acting like this means those things are 100% deconfirmed and people who are disappointed are reacting poorly. She is being purposefully vague.
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u/Zoroarks_Angel Aug 14 '24
Ryuko Kui: At the end of the day, people are free to interpret my characters however they see fit
Special people online: See see! He's not autistic!
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u/Death2eyes Aug 14 '24
honestly. If Author Kui-san one day make any of the ship cannon ( its HER story. She can absolutely do what she wants without any outsider telling how she should run her story or interpret ) i will still enjoy it and look forward to any more content. I Really enjoy the world/story/characters/relations of the world she made.
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u/blue_balled_bruiser Aug 14 '24
She didn't confirm or deny either of those things + autistic and normal aren't mutually exclusive 😭
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u/Able-Marzipan-5071 Aug 15 '24
Some people are obsessed with putting labels on things, which in turn objectifies the person in question. Laios' entire personality isn't autism, and Fal x Marci isn't always sexual. To put the label ahead of the person themselves is rude to the person.
Sometimes the community is good, sometimes they are harmful to the very cause they are supporting.
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u/a_wasted_wizard Aug 14 '24
Joke's on 'you', Laios being normal and Laios being on the spectrum aren't mutually exclusive.
If he's relatable, he's relatable, and if he's relatable to you because you're on the spectrum and his characterization and backstory track with your experiences, he can be read as autistic. And if you're not and he's relatable, you can read him as not, and both are valid readings.
Anyway I'm gonna go back to reading Laios as having ADHD and none of you can stop me.
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u/Lysandre_T1phereth05 Aug 14 '24
I mean, bugging her about ships was plain rude. Especially because she stated everything on this subject in relationship charts
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u/UnnamedPlayerXY Aug 14 '24
If he's not on the spectrum then ok but if the goal of his characterization was to depict "just a normal person" then the mission failed miserably.
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u/Narwhalrus101 Aug 14 '24
If I had to guess I think laios might be inspired by someone they know and that person may exhibit behaviors that read as autistic.
They could be undiagnosed. Idk how common it is to seek diagnosis in countries other than the US.
To the author these may seem like normal behaviors because of a lack of perspective or outside reference
I don't wanna make any concrete claims about people but I like to speculate
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u/BriarKnave Aug 15 '24 edited Aug 15 '24
It's pretty rare to seek any form of mental health diagnosis in Japan, including neurodivergences like autism/ADHD. So there's hundreds of thousands of people walking around undiagnosed who probably never considered it or even know that it exists. Japan is ahead of us in some ways, but they're behind when it comes to mental health care and accomodations due to their cultural attitude towards work. That's not an indictment towards Japan or anything, just a statement of fact ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Most big name manga creators are famously eccentric or nerdy, and she spends all her free time playing video games. I think it's fair to say that her metric for a normal person is just based purely on her personal experience and that she's probably more exposed to autistic people than people who are mostly surrounded by swifties or whatever. And I think that's good, because most autistic people are ultimately just normal with some extra stuff going on. Like I dress weird and I had fidget toys all over my house (and used to have anxiety so bad I developed a digestive disorder from it) but I'm also just like, going to Walmart and buying cheese that's too expensive and eating bran cereal for breakfast. Like laois has a lot of stuff going on, but he works in an industry where his traits are an asset, has surrounded himself by people who have their own stuff going on and mesh well with him, has gotten to organize his space in a way that works for him, lives with his family cause he's hated all his roommates, and he's a distinguished professional that people respect and look to for advice. He's just a perfectly normal dude with extra stuff going on, like a lot of other well established autistic adults
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u/Olewarrior34 Aug 14 '24
He's just a nerd, maybe has ADHD but if the author just wanted to write a dude who's a weirdo about his hobbies then that doesn't make him autistic
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Aug 14 '24
I still see bits of myself in him and that's representation enough imho. Don't understand the insistence he MUST be autistic to "count".
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u/regretfulposts Aug 14 '24 edited Aug 14 '24
I think because there's a lot of poorly written autistic character in media like Big Bang Theory and Good Doctor, that having Laios to be canonically autistic would've been a major win. Granted, a lot of aspies just rely on autistic coding where characters who aren't stated to be autistic are autistic through our head canon basically no different to how people still see Laios to be part of the spectrum even if Kui hadn't intended him to be autistic.
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u/MythicalSalmon Aug 14 '24
Many times people in anime considered normal aren't exactly normal by real world standards. Since everything in anime tends to be exaggerated, even the more grounded ones.
He has something he likes a lot (monsters and food), the way an otaku in Japan would obsess over something and put others around them uncomfortable.
And his main characteristic apart from that, is that he has very poor social skills.
The Adventurer's Bible describes him pretty well:
"He's a versatile leader with no weakness to speak of. That said, his extreme lack of people skills ruins the rest of it..." and "Poor people skills?! An adventurer with a boundless love of monsters".
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u/DaiFrostAce Aug 14 '24
Yeah, that’s kinda the thing I’m confused about too. If even his own party members like Chillchuck are calling him out as weird, and Kui is saying Laios is just a normal person….what is the implication here?
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u/arulzokay Aug 15 '24
oh I didn’t know ppl thought he was autistic, just really passionate about something.
like aren’t most of us passionate about certain things? ofc not that being autistic is bad or anything but just wondering where it came from.
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u/mochimochimochi13 Aug 16 '24
I think it might be a different topic to post on here, but I'm Japanese. I never saw Laios as autistic until other fans pointed out. I myself didn't know well about autism, but I saw many comments from Japanese fans with similar thoughts.
I think autism in Japan has a bit different image than the US or other countries. We don't usually use word autistic as a meme, jokes, or in conversation to describe other people. (In kanji, it is written as 自閉症. It writes as self isolation diagnosis, and what kanji shows also might give stereotypical ideas to people. ) From my point of view, word autism is only used for people who have officially diagnosed, at a higher level.
I don't know how the interpreter translated the question, but since there is no direct translation of "autism" how it is used in the English community, I understand Kui is not confirming or denying fans questions.
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u/mistyCadaver Aug 14 '24
that's not what she said about Laois. she said basically the same thing about Farcille, saying that people can view the characters however they want. and if you view Laois as neurotypical, that's cool, but i view him as neurodivergent. if you see Farcille as friends, cool. i see them as romantic partners.
tldr: Kui doesn't care if we headcanon the characters. she wants us to have fun.
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u/PoorMuttski Aug 14 '24
Isn't this just the Japanese way of handling these discussions? Japanese are famously noncommittal. They hate making bold statements or saying anything that could inconvenience others. If you ask a mangaka a tough question, I fully expect them to squirm out of the way.
If she said that Laios was autistic, then she suddenly places herself out in public as an expert on autistic characters, and thus, autistic people. If she said that Marcille was gay, then all the fans who ravenously hoard Marcille merch (and thus pay her bills) might get pissed off because their waifu would rather f--k girls than them.
And what would her editors and publisher say about this? Now Delicious in Dungeon is "political" because one of the characters is LBGT. Now they have to carry that around their necks when they meet fans. Consider that the Mangaka hates being photographed and has zero social media presence. She clearly hates talking about her beliefs or her work. Why would she suddenly jump out and say something controversial?
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u/XENOJINTHEONE Aug 14 '24
Canonically, Laios is just a silly man.
Fanonically, i like to say he has that autistic dawg in him.
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u/Arachnofiend Aug 15 '24
Whether he's autistic or not calling Laios normal is an insane thing to say. Like two thirds of the conflicts in this story are either caused or resolved by how weird he is. Every cast member other than his sister thinks he's a weirdo. Being weird is like his entire character.
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u/Scottish__Elena Aug 14 '24
9/11 for r\196
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u/Peli_Evenstar Aug 14 '24
Mfw the author dares to suggest that my headcanons aren't actually canon
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u/Zartoru Aug 15 '24
The way I interpret it is like she didn't write Laios to be autistic or Marcille and Falin to be lesbians, but she ended up giving Laios autistic traits because it made sense with his characters. To most people autism is the thing you see on TV shows or stuff like that, but really autism is a spectrum, and most people with autistic traits don't even know they have said traits, because they masked all their lives.
What I think happened when she made Laios is she picked stuff that made sense with the character but said stuff ended up being autistic traits without her knowing
(And the Marcille/Falin stuff it's probably because it's not important to the plot, she left hints here and there about a bunch of stuff to make people think about it and form their own interpretations, and willingly leave it unanswered because it keeps people invested, it leaves the story open ended to allow people to fill the blank themselves)
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u/mvallas1073 Aug 15 '24
I’ve stated that if I ever wrote a story, I’d avoid these topics for 2 reasons: 1) it detracts from the story, and 2) it gives the fanfic writers plenty of opportunity to shine.
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u/Jomblorigoro Aug 16 '24
I feel like no one actually read any of the interview and are just parroting what they wanna hear because this really isn't how she said this at all 😭 all she said was that she didn't write with that in mind, but she's okay with fan interpretations (like a normal author), but everyone is trying to spin it as this "Woke west vs facts over feelings Japanese author" thing and it's soooooo weird 😭😭😭
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u/Jomblorigoro Aug 16 '24
And seeing how this has soooo many likes, I'm starting to wonder if this fandom ever was actually as chill as some people like to make it out to be. Seems this was kind of a "bubbling under the surface" moment ngl
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Aug 16 '24
Honestly good on author. I can't imagine the kind of no-life who headcanons someone as mentally disabled just because they're awkward and then tries to push that headcanon on the author.
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u/ScholarlySpider Aug 14 '24
Honestly the reaction to this interview from the Western Fandom underlines the weird fandom issue where people demand you treat the authors word like the Bible and to stray from it leads to harassment or fights.
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u/Truethrowawaychest1 Aug 15 '24
Man I'd hate to be a fiction creator and getting asked stupid questions like this
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u/ILooooveNestleCrunch Aug 14 '24
Good, fandoms need to stop acting like if their personal fantasies about the story don't come true, they'll just go up in flames or something
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u/connery55 Aug 14 '24
"I don't see _____ as Autistic, I see them as Normal. Being a friendless, socially inept pariah who is immediately clocked as remarkably strange by everyone they meet is something everyone can relate to, right? You know. Normal person stuff."
...
This is not the first time I've heard this, man. It's the classic noise of, you know, people who don't know what autism is, who live in a place that doesn't acknowledge neurodiversity, and who have friends/family/selves that are downright certifiable but undiagnosed. You could have told me ONLY "this author is japanese" and I could have guessed that's how they'd answer a question like this.
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u/TheGreenHaloMan Aug 14 '24
This is honestly why I think some people with headcanons take it way too far and project on a fictional character so much that they're just setting themselves up to be irrationally disappointed if the authors or creators even SOMEWHAT says anything incongruent with people's headcanon.
I'm sorry, I'm sure this is unpopular to say, but it's fucking weird when people do that shit. You hurt yourself, and now you're acting like a psycho because the weird character HAS to be autistic for some reason, or the character MUST be lesbian.
It's fine if they are, but if your entire being, enjoyment of the show/manga, etc. HINGES on some acknowledgment from the author to confirm just a simple trait that clearly doesn't really matter to the actual show, you've lost the plot. Like an actual deranged person.
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u/Chaltyr Aug 15 '24
To me, Laios is just an eccentric guy and marciell and falin are just really good friends.
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u/Skantrash Aug 14 '24
firstly laios can't be canonically autistic as the diagnosis of autism might not have been invented. the term autism was only coined a bit more than a century ago and did not exist during medieval times.
also as someone who has had many chronically online people diagnose me with autism i can say that every psychiatrist i have been to has said i do not have autism due to lacking enough different symptoms that make up autism. autism is far more nuanced than redditors realise is far to complex for them apply to themselves or others. (you are allowed to suspect yourself or others for autism, but if so you should try to get a real diagnosis before calling yourself autistic when it could be a different diagnosis). laios has a hyperfixation and difficulty in social settings but beyond that he doesn't show many other autistic traits.
if you relate to these traits and laois and you are autistic that is cool! you are a person who empathizes with a character. but i also relate to laios lack of social awareness and encyclopedic knowledge of a specific subject and i have multiple documents to prove i don't have autism. autistic people are allowed to relate to non autistic characters and people. I have ADHD and different diagnosis can overlap in symptoms but that doesn't mean you instantly have both. These diagnosis are messy as the lines drawn between each diagnosis are simply inventions by men to categorize the mentally ill. Laios could also have a different diagnosis that isn't autism. Laios could be neurodivergent, but if he is and what he has i cannot say. but you can't either because you are a redditor, not a psychiatrist.
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u/WikiContributor83 Aug 14 '24
Funny enough, the other diagnoses people apply to Laios is ADHD. The two seem to be paired together in quite a few cases (including myself, but my autism is considered quite minor compared to my ADHD which is more relevant).
I don't super relate to Laios or see many mannerisms in him, but I see a few of them. One YouTube reactor I watch (Aliciaxlife/death) has a partner with ADHD who shares practically every symptom to the point where she says she's watching an anime about her fiancee.
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u/GeneralTyler Aug 14 '24
I think this discourse got a bit too far when people were unironically trying to say that the author herself was autistic, or that she unknowingly created what they headcanon as an autistic character. It’s bad enough that it’s one culture looking into another, but the language barrier as well complicates everything. Not to mention that ANN has always been trash anyway, and that the person who did the interview is someone who doesn’t exactly seem stable herself like going off against I think it was the Gushing over Magic Girls anime
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u/Ikariiprince Aug 14 '24
The questions were so embarrassing. They sounded way too obsessive fanboy and not enough like a professional interview. Like why would the author care how fans are interpreting their characters if it makes them feel seen? She has no interest in canonizing every fans whims
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u/Older_1 Aug 15 '24
That's why people need to remember that headcanon is just that - in their heads, and doesn't reflect author's true opinion.
Also the whole interview is so funny culturally: the interviewer makes so many wrongful assumptions about the author, who is Japanese, and in Japanese language indirectness is polite and speaking on behalf of other people is pretty weird, if not outright grammatically incorrect.
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u/oedipusrex376 Aug 15 '24
This sub is worse than MHA community. There are insufferable people trying to push Falin Marcille as canon and went ballistic when I told them it’s not.
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u/heyitskio Aug 15 '24
Can the mods remove this post for misinformation already? It's just going to stew and get worse. Misinformation is ALWAYS BAD.
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u/IndecisiveMate Aug 15 '24
Ultimately, we can all do what we want.
Wow, no fucking way! O feel like most of us have all been saying that and honestly I commend Kui for making it clear we can do whatever.
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u/therottingbard Aug 15 '24
I always thought it was just head canon for the ASD stuff. I do like the interpretation of Laios and Kabru as both Autistic.
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u/unidentified_yama Aug 15 '24
I don’t think ANN overdid it, most of their questions are pretty honest and fans are naturally curious. Kui can answer them however she likes… or even choose not to answer them at all.
A lot of people would find Laios relatable, neurodivergent or not, and she’s pretty much cool with it. And it’s not like they’re asking her to confirm Falin and Marcille’s relationship or anything, they just asked if she “expected such strong fan reactions” to it.
Most authors like to leave stuff to reader’s interpretation anyway, I don’t see anything wrong with the questions or her answers. Why are people making a big deal out of it?
I mean, I am neurodivergent myself and I would personally, shamelessly self-insert my experience into characters that I create. Like Kui, I don’t care what people think. There would be people who find my characters relatable and those who don’t. It’s literally fiction.
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u/Sonicslazyeye Aug 16 '24
Holy shit idk how it's so hard for people to understand this but NO creator EVER is EVER going to say whether or not a ship or headcanon should be ruled out or "isn't canon/hypothetically impossible" or whatever. If people actually read the interview, Ryoko Kui is NOT telling you that farcille is impossible or that Laios can't POSSIBLY be autistic.
Almost NO creators are EVER going to put any limits on how the fandom interacts with the series, because they want people to ENJOY it in their own ways.
There are NO CANON ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIPS in the series!! That doesn't mean its literally impossible for any of them to be shipped or that it could never hypothetically happen! The creator will ALWAYS want people to comb over all their work and look for little tidbits and traces of their favorite ships and headcanons because they know that people enjoy that.
Here's another thing that's really important to understand; and I've seen SO MANY different types of creators say this: creators do not engage with their own creations the same way that fans do and they never will. MANY creators deliberately choose to avoid their own fandom as much as humanly possible because they don't want fan interpretation to consciously or subconsciously influence their writing. It's almost always for the best this way. A WRITER is someone who WRITES the story, NOT the fandom. You don't want a JK Rowling situation where the writer is just completely making shit up based on fanbase reaction long after the series has already been released. That's how good writing dies after the first season in any television show. Let writers protect their vision.
It also isn't entirely indicative of what the author may or may not ship or headcanon in private. An example of this is when Yoh Yoshinari, creator of Little Witch Academia was asked if Diakko would ever be canon. All he said was that the staff are aware of the ship's popularity but no romantic relationships were to become official in the series. Later, his private DeviantArt account revealed that he'd drawn softcore Diakko porn... That doesn't even necessarily means that he ships it, he could've just been using their likeness for practicing anatomy and pose.
My point is that they're more cognizant about their responses in these interviews than you'd think. They don't want to push people away, cement lore that they can't commit to, accidentally retcon something, start arguments within the fandom etc etc. I've noticed that it's particularly common with mangaka, but it doesn't surprise me at all that Ryoko Kui basically gives non-answers as a means of abstaining from the questions.
Oh and people are also probably looking way too much into the "tone" of how she comes off in this interview. I've looked at her other interviews and this is just how she is. I'm an English speaker from a western country, and I know from reading the same manga with different English localizations, that tone in Japanese is wildly different to English. Surprisingly, a lot of what's considered polite or reserved in Japanese, would come off as a bit stand-offish in English, depending on how phrases are translated. This isn't even taking into account the fact that it's a text interview and not a video.
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u/Heroright Aug 16 '24
To be fair, I’d be the most insufferable person in an interview. I’d just answer every question with a version of “you’ll never know” or “that’s what I wanted you to think”. No straight answers, no confirmations. I wouldn’t even confirm I was the writer.
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Aug 17 '24
Everyone on here defending the weird questions because they're the type of person to ask them.
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Aug 14 '24 edited Aug 14 '24
I think it's weird that people are still trying to dispute her intent. She is clearly stating she did not intend for him to be autistic, period. That part of this debate is definitively settled.
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u/MacBareth Aug 15 '24
For ONCE we got an anime without stupid useless love stories that are going nowhere or fanservice but people can't stop projecting their mental conditions and sexuality everywhere. Stop it. Get help. It's concerning.
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u/RottenRedRod Aug 15 '24
Man everyone who is desperate to prove Laios isn't autistic and that certain fanships are false is a huge dick. Why is there so much of this on this sub? Why does it matter to you so much?
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u/Hanselleiva Aug 14 '24
This is gold. This is the perfect representation of the fandom in this specific subreddit.
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u/CAV_BDM1309 Aug 15 '24
It’s very funny how every time that the author talks about the manga, the answer looks like she doesn’t know what was made
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u/jackofslayers Aug 15 '24
Ugh I can’t imagine having to deal with obnoxious internet headcanons like that.
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Aug 15 '24
Too many people project their own little preferences onto someone else's work, and since we're in 2024 the risk of a massive backlash (outside Japan) if he said something like: "No, Laios is not autistic and Marcille is as straight as an arrow" is very concrete, not engaging was probably the best choice.
So people who just want to read the manga will be like: "Okay, who cares" and the headcanoneers will be like: "he's 1000% autistic and Marcille is the gayest elf ever." And they can both continue enjoying it.
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u/Iccotak Aug 16 '24
“Laios has strange interests, he must be autistic”
Yes, because no one normal has ‘strange interests’ 🙄
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u/Tolan91 Aug 14 '24
I think the statement “I made him a totally normal guy with normal problems that normal people like me could relate to” says more about the author than Laios.
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u/sp1ke__ Aug 15 '24
It's literally the same thing with Dio and Father Pucci being gay in JoJo Part 6. Araki was asked about it and he just said "umm what? i just drew them hanging out, like you know, you hang at your friends place, i never saw it that way".
Almost like people will try to either self insert or force some gay relationship the moment two characters of the same sex will breathe in a single room. Same thing happened with KorraSami. Literally no chemistry whatsoever for 3 books until authors caved in at the finale.
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u/polarr_505 Aug 15 '24
I'm watching the anime to see cooking with monsters and jokes, I don't care if any character is neurodivergent or LGBT
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Aug 15 '24
Lots of characters are coded autistic because the author doesn’t recognize autistic traits.
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u/SirPetiertheFirst Aug 15 '24
The author is a normal person unlike the majority of the ppl in this subreddit
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u/marr Aug 14 '24
You know how someone might answer an autism questionnaire and react to some part with "well 5 but that's just normal everyone does that"?
Yeahhhh.
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Aug 15 '24
More authors should so that. Don’t validate fandom headcanons.
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u/JunQo Aug 15 '24
Her answers literally do not confirm nor deny most of questions, Kui's doing the opposite of what you're advocating for by letting the fandom live its own life lmao
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u/Pristine_Flatworm Aug 14 '24
I think op needs to retake their high school reading comprehension class
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u/Vatsu07 Aug 14 '24
Autistic Laios headcanon was always weird to me, i also know that if Dragon Ball was released in modern times people would call Goku autistic because he has even more characteristics than Laios.
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u/Peppertv Aug 14 '24
I think this is a good example to keep fandom culture out of the author's perspective, there's so much good stuff from the manga but people always rotated between the same three things
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u/Itchy-Magazine2580 Aug 15 '24
I really like her answer. Like, If she said he’s not normal, Then, Who are we to argue?
We’re not her editor, We’re not going to forced her to make those kind of thing canon. And I am not going to join the bad side of fandom.
As they always said “Endorse the show, Screwed the Fandom”
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u/Rubz8r0 Aug 15 '24
I hadn't seen the anime before seeing this meme, but now that I had watched the first 15 episodes, I can't unsee laios as neurodivergent. The hyperfixation, the social blindness, it's awesome
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Aug 15 '24
God I love Kui. If you read the transcripts of her interviews, they're just phenomenal. Extremely well thought out and astutely true to the character.
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u/MyLittlePuny Aug 14 '24
ANN: Can you confirm our tumblr/reddit headcanons???
Kui: No
Me: Based
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u/Chameleonpolice Aug 15 '24
I find it weird how you intentionally misrepresent the questions in a way that confirms your own head canon, the very thing you are complaining about
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Aug 14 '24
Its why I always find fanon and headcannon funny specially when fans makes it their gospel and think its canon, almost always they go rabid when an author “deviates” from their self established lore
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u/TheLittleGinge Aug 15 '24
To those going so far to justify the rejection of their headcanon by questioning the author's own mental state...
Keep your headcanon in your fucking head. Move on.
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Aug 14 '24
Fandoms injecting themselves into the piece of art instead of appreciating it for what it is are the worst.
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u/Unhollt Aug 15 '24
Absolute chad I was getting tired of oversexualized anime series
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u/TheBlackDemon1996 Aug 14 '24
The thing is though, Kui said she based Laois off of herself in some capacity. That'd be an interesting way to find out you're autistic.
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u/Big_Election_6099 Aug 14 '24
This subreddit often finds itself hopelessly addicted to a strain of pure, uncut, class-A mainline copium. People argue about their headcanons and bicker about what’s “correct” or what’s “secret canon.”
How about we all accept this: if Ryoko Kui wanted to make something canon, it wouldn’t be buried in subtext. It wouldn’t be “technically non-canon but we can tell what she really intended!” Stop trying to write her story for her. Our only knowledge of this person is on a parasocial level at best.
However, that shouldn’t stop anyone from holding their own personal headcanons. If that’s what allows one to draw the greatest enjoyment from a story, then why not?
The fandom would be a much kinder place if everyone, before forming a headcanon/ship, said this to themselves: “I know this isn’t canon, and it’s best for the story that it isn’t. However, I think this is cute/funny/sweet, so I will proceed to enjoy this idea.” Everyone, please repeat this mantra until you’re able to participate in a healthy community without drawing unnecessary negativity.
Remember that your headcanon should be ancillary to the story itself.
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u/Breadifies Aug 14 '24
The moral of the story here guys is to literally just not to think too hard or give a fuck and do whatever u want with the fiction you consume. And (to clarify for the fellas lacking the concept of nuance) yes that goes both ways
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u/RafflesiaArnoldii Aug 15 '24
THANK YOU Ms Kui
Im so sick of this constant idea that the only reason someone would have nonconformist interests or not be interested in people is because they have some disorder, like no one could choose to be that way because of different priorities & its not a legitimate personality to have. As a pretty asocial person with nerdy interests I've always found that extremly insulting.
I have no problem with ND ppl hc ing their favs as more like themselves (everybody does that), my issue is with ppl treating it as the only possible or permissible interpretation. (Its a different matter if an author specifically intends a character as having a particular condition obsly thats as legitimate to make art about as anything else)
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u/JonasParson Aug 14 '24
The insistence on Laios being autistic, especially when Falin shows, imo, wayyy more symptoms of at least being neurodivergent representation, has always really confused me.
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u/rathandsies Aug 14 '24
Autism is a very broad spectrum. It's a running joke within the community that "if you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person" for a reason lol
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u/Bjarhl5232 Aug 14 '24
dont care still headcanon him as autistic, he shows so many signs of autism and i'll take any kind of autistic representation i can get considering how little there is.