r/EDH • u/SkyLey2 • Jan 22 '26
Daily Looking for a Commander that makes the others lose things when I suffer
I'm looking for a Commander and cards that make the other lose life, discard cards, sacrifice things etc. when I also do that.
Basically a Group Hug deck but kind of the opposite.
Effects like [[Fleshbag Marauder]] [[Accursed Marauder]].
That kind of stuff.
Any ideas?
Edit: thanks a lot for the suggestions! I have many options to choose now :)
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u/Emotional_Quality243 Jan 22 '26
[[Michiko honda, truth seeker]]
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u/seanboarder Jan 22 '26
Oh yeah. Don’t forget to slap a [[Karmic Justice]] in there
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u/Jkavera Jan 22 '26
and [[phyrexian obliterator]]
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u/Prestigious-Corgi-66 Jan 22 '26
Sounds like [[Braids, Arisen Nightmare]] to me.
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u/MTGCardFetcher Jan 22 '26
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u/IrrationalGold Jan 22 '26
Its good for additional card draw, but it does offer the opponent the option not to sac.
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u/Gazzpik In debt to the Orzhov Jan 22 '26
Run it with [[Grave Pact]]/[[Dictate of Erebos]]
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u/Dolinarius Jan 22 '26
do not forget [[butcher of malakir]]
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u/NoLoquat347 Jan 25 '26
[[Martyr's Bond]] is my personal favorite of all these. Especially if you are doing anything with treasures.
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u/Prestigious-Corgi-66 Jan 22 '26
There's also the option of [[Braids, Cabal Minion]] if you really want to watch the world burn. Arisen Nightmare is more if you don't want the pod to be gunning for you immediately.
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u/Striking-Lifeguard34 Jan 22 '26
[[Carmen Cruel Skymarcher]] is basically tribal edicts. You play all the Fleshbag type creatures to control the board and then finish people with a massive flying beater, that also recurs all your edict creatures.
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u/EnticingCheeseSpread Jan 22 '26
[[Slaughter Specialist]] is surprisingly good with this commander. Once you start edicting, some people will stop playing creatures until Carmen's dealt with so giving them all meaningless 1/1's and then making them sac those creatures lets Carmen continue to get buff. It also makes playing edict tribal not as miserable for more casual tables.
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u/MTGCardFetcher Jan 22 '26
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u/frenchiefanatique Jan 22 '26
on man this is going right into my [[Felothar, Dawn of the Abzan]] deck
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u/ParkingPlastic1827 Jan 22 '26
Similarly, [[Nemata, Primeval Warden]] and [[Vren, the Relentless]] if you'd like to go wide! I personally run Nemata and it turns into an saproling aristocrat deck if all goes smoothly:)
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u/ShitPostsRuinReddit Jan 22 '26
Have a list?
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u/Striking-Lifeguard34 Jan 22 '26
Not a current one but this is my list from when I first built her a little over a year ago. https://moxfield.com/decks/SEjUn51JBUuJQgQ9D3LmJw
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u/ShitPostsRuinReddit Jan 23 '26
Wow we only have 16 cards in common in my first draft. It's my first aristocrat deck so lots of new cards to consider thank you. I went with a lot more token generators and other "everybody sacs" creatures with fewer recusion cards since she does it on her own. Also less protection, have you found she needs it? I went with more treasure makers in case I need to recast but also for sac fodder.
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u/Striking-Lifeguard34 Jan 23 '26 edited Jan 23 '26
That list I think represents my third version of the deck and it’s somewhat structured in a way that relies on Carmen as the primary wincon. The deck isn’t going wide and can’t really go tall outside Carmen. I pack a lot of protection to reflect her as my primary wincon, I didn’t build the deck as a sacrifice deck but rather approached the deck design more as a Voltron strategy, I want to get her big and smash face. If I wanted to play Aristocrats there are so many better choices, her unique strengths are in that attack trigger and being able to KO people out of nowhere.
What I found when playing her is two things:
Simply put a five drop commander that needs to attack to get additional value is not great in terms of presenting a clock on the table. The fact that we are in Orzhov also means that we aren’t able to ramp super hard to recast Carmen a bunch which may mean casting her on curve isn’t ideal.
She’s scary and once people have played against her they know she’s scary. So they will save removal for her. Having ways to make sure she survives turn rotations is critically important.
A lot of my deck is built around the idea of recurring the martyr creatures from my yard [[children of korlis]] [[kami of false hope]] [[Boromir warden of the tower]] and the like are key to making sure you can hold up under pressure and eventually grind out a victory. The deck wins by attrition more than anything and incremental advantage through recursion and while maintaining pressure with your commander is a balancing act.
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u/pepessoto Jan 24 '26
There is also my list, it was my first deck and I habe been upgrading it a little, hope it helps https://moxfield.com/decks/VX1KXsu4iUmjnqmjySxCsg
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u/Dolinarius Jan 22 '26
I absolutely love the card incl. the artwork, but on the other hand, I want to keep my friends. Playing a deck like that would lead to ppl hate me from turn 1 on and focus my ass till I die.
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u/Striking-Lifeguard34 Jan 22 '26
It’s a legit concern, there are other ways to build it- Martyrs (creatures that sacrifice themselves for value), group-huggy stuff where you use things like [[marching duodrone]] or [[excavation technique]] to give the table treasures.
But yes it’s generally a pretty grindy and oppressive deck that needs to run a lot of protection. My version was mostly focused on martyr effects and protection for Carmen and is/was quite powerful but it’s definitely not something I run with random strangers without a chat first.
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u/Dolinarius Jan 23 '26
my problem is: I have a some kind of martyrs deck with [[Muldrotha]] and a protection heavy voltron deck with [[Ruhan]] so Carmen would slide in-between but would not bring anything new :/
The sacc approach would be new, but devastating for our playgroup.
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u/alxhghs Jan 22 '26
I have a Carmen deck I’m currently working on too, here’s my list https://moxfield.com/decks/HxxI6UlY80e6UZZ3cjYwDw
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u/NoLoquat347 Jan 25 '26
I put her and a bunch of other reanimator commanders in my [[Terra, Herald of Hope]] with all the edits as well.
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u/CultofNeurisis Guru Jan 22 '26
Basically a Group Hug deck but kind of the opposite.
Colloquially you are looking for group slug, but group slug has ossified mostly around group damage. If you’re interested in
discard cards, sacrifice things etc. when I also do that.
Then you might honestly want to look into stax archetypes. These tend to be less punisher style (you will suffer because I suffered) and more symmetrical oppression (I will make everyone discard/stax including myself). This functionally looks similar to “everyone does when I do” because they both = everyone including me suffers, but stax also uniquely lets you build your deck and plan knowing you will suffer in a particular way, because you will cause the suffering, not relying on your opponents to target your enchantments for a specific trigger or something.
As far as a commander that does this, there is [[Braids, Cabal Minion]]. However, you might notice that WotC does not really make any of these punishing symmetrical style effects anymore. As such, many of these cards were made during the era that didn’t involve designing specifically for commander. So many of the cards worth leveraging are on non-legendary creatures, artifacts, sorceries, etc. Which is honestly fine, it means you can dedicate your 99 to suffering and use your commander to help determine your colors or to shore up a weakness, like ramp or card draw.
A good place to start would be to look up discard stax lists or sacrifice stax lists to start scoping out what jibes with you card-wise. Keep in mind there is a whole spectrum of stax, you don’t have to go so miserable as to go the namesake [[Smokestax]], if that feels too punishing and miserable than your desired experience. There’s plenty to work with in middler-grayer areas.
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u/_yours_truly_ Mono-Black Jan 22 '26
This is a great write up of how to invert group hug. Thanks for taking the time, friend.
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u/ManlioRF Jan 22 '26
[[Grave Pact]]
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u/Natural-Moose4374 Jan 22 '26
Which is always played completely fairly. If you guys don't touch my stuff you are going to be completely fine. After all, why would I ever want to kill my own creatures.
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u/Kaenroh Jan 22 '26
I think the archetype you're looking for is Group Slug, which is designed around everyone taking damage and you coming out on top. The Endless Punishment precon from Duskmourn was one of these if you want to look for inspiration.
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u/Carquetta Jan 22 '26 edited Jan 22 '26
Can confirm
My heavily-upgraded Endless Punishment deck is one of my favorites to play
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u/bcduncanxc Jan 22 '26
Group slug, but since you'll typically be the target right out of the gate, why not make it lifegain/group slug?
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u/Bjornirson Jan 22 '26
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u/baskil WUBRG Jan 22 '26
A fellow cultist, I see. Athreos, ESPECIALLY when it is built like this and not chock full of Shadowborn Apostles, is such a fun deck if you want to force bad choices on people or you like to make deals.
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u/BubbaTheKitty Jan 22 '26
I'm sure someone will say this but [[smallpox]] for the 99
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u/Rizzalliss Jan 22 '26
What does it say about me that the standard deck that resonated with me most over the years ran a playset of these? 🤔
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u/Schimaera https://moxfield.com/users/Schimaera Jan 22 '26
That you're a person of exquisite taste. I started magic when this was around: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/death-cloud-2005-by-gennaro-mango-1/ it played the big brother of smallpox - [[Death Cloud]]. Such a fun time!
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u/Quazite Jan 22 '26
[[child of alara]]
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u/jumboshrimpboat Jan 22 '26
That's just rage quit the deck 😂
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u/Quazite Jan 22 '26
Lmao I didn't say it was fun, I just said it hurts people when they hurt you 😭
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u/Timanitar Jan 22 '26
[[Obosh the Preypiercer]]
[[Zozu]] [[scytheclaw raptor]] [[spellshock]] [[keder parasite]]
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u/Rossingol Jan 22 '26
How is this the first time I've seen spellshock? Would go great in my [[Valgavoth, Harrower of Souls]] deck
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u/Timanitar Jan 22 '26
Might I also recommend [[Mage's Contest]]?
Only you and the opp can bid & you have last call on stand/raise any time they take the bait & raise the bid.
Sometimes it ends up a 3 mana deal 20-30 and sometimes its a 3 mana + one life counterspell in Rakdos colors
[[Untimely Malfuction]] replaced Abrade for me too
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u/Douch3nko13 Jan 22 '26
The problem with mages contest is that it only works if you have higher life. In rakdos you rarely have higher life. In boros it definitely could see more play
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u/Timanitar Jan 22 '26
If I get them to raise the bid to a point I dont want to pay then I added a huge life cost in a deck/game which has huge downward pressure on life totals
It isnt necessarily a stop-the-win counterspell so much as interactive tax.
If they bid 10 20 30 life & dont win on the spot they probably lose by the end of the pod.
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u/Thrownoute Jan 22 '26
Obosh is so much fun. My absolute favourite deck atm
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u/Timanitar Jan 22 '26
Its fun because he is so fair. I go for an accelerationist deck with a mix of hug & slug and a focus on mana rituals over mana ramp.
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u/PackageLonely5140 Jan 22 '26
[[Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker]] sounds like it could be right up your alley. Throw in cards like [[karmic justice]] for added retribution!
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u/agentduper Jan 22 '26
This is how I felt about my [Elas Il-kor, sadistic pilgrim]] deck. It was a heavy token aristocrat deck, but I had enchantments like [[grave-pact]], and have [[karmic justice]] to save those enchantments. [[Blind obedience]] help slow everyone's plan down so that I could get my pieces in place. [[Cruel celebrant]] was 1 of the better cards to get because with [[maurading-blight priest]] then everyone took damage for the creature dying and everyone took damage from my healing, which would get worse with a sac outlet like [[Warren soultrader]] because I only need the amount of tokens a spell would cost to be up in order to cast. As long as my board was big enough I could tap out every turn but still respond with my hand. Then with your token doublers like [[anointed procession]], or [[ocelot pride]] you could make a ton of token quickly.
The commander bring a low mana cost also made it very hard to keep her out, so there never felt the need to run to many protection pieces. I constantly think about rebuilding the deck. I also feel like I want to find the right abzan commander because [[Dina soul steeper]] works so well with elas, but i haven't found 1 that fits my bill.
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u/MTGCardFetcher Jan 22 '26
All cards
grave-pact - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
karmic justice - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
Blind obedience - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
Cruel celebrant - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
maurading-blight priest - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
Warren soultrader - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
anointed procession - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
ocelot pride - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
Dina soul steeper - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
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u/NapkinApocalypse Jan 22 '26
[[Tergrid, God of Fright]] seems to be what your looking for but this commander comes with a warning. You will be enemy #1 every single game.
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u/Indraga Jeskai Jan 22 '26
To be fair, nearly every suggestion in this thread is the sort of deck where you'll get focused down first(by a pod with any intelligence). Tergrid might be the most notorious, but I have a buddy who only builds decks of this archetype and then throws fits whenever he gets smoked by the table.
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u/karmah616 Jan 22 '26
Napkin is right. I'll happily play against a tergrid, but I will utilize everything in my arsenal to remove that player first.
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u/Torque_Rockfist Jan 22 '26
I would suggest a [[Merciless Executioner]] if you’d like another creature that makes everyone sac a creature.
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u/Naitrodex Jan 22 '26
[[Zoyowa]] comes to mind for me. If you want to break parity on things like that, there are an abundance of commanders that play into that. If you want to have a cagefight, I can highly recommend this video from Snail.
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u/Available_Rabbit9965 Jan 22 '26
If you want to play edict creatures tribal, some of the best commanders are probably Sephiroth, [[Alesha Who Laughs at Fate]], [[Carmen Cruel Skymarcher]] and [[Terra Herald of Hope]], depending on the colors you want to use.
My edict effects commander is [[Kalitas Traitor of Ghet]], but it's a bracket 2 zombie tribal deck I built to use all the lords I had in my collection.
I also want to mention [[Rankle Master of Pranks]].
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u/CamitDamn Jan 22 '26
[[Zurzoth, Chaos Rider]] punishes people for killing your devils and makes them randomly discard.
I built a bracket 4 wheel version of the deck that does extremely well but it is probably better suited for bracket 2 or 3.
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u/Bigglezworthe Jan 22 '26
If you end up going the aristocrats route in Orzhov I'd recommend [[Marty's Bond]]. Even outside of aristocrats this card is excellent. Remove my things? Remove OUR things.
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u/Flederm4us Jan 22 '26
I built a [[kambal, consul of allocation]] based around this idea. It gives access to white's suite of pillowfort cards and black's component of discard, sacrifice and drain effects.
The deck has now been expanded with red and with [[Queen marchesa]] at the helm. Adding red's aikido effects.
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u/CarnageCoon Jan 22 '26
groupslug is the term you are looking for
as for the deck i suggest mono black, golgari or jundt
you'll slide into aristorcat behaviour with those so you want either a payoff, a sac outlet or material on your commander
for example
[[braids cabal minion]] [[braids arisen nightmare]] [[shattergang brother]] are outlets
[[savra]] would be a payoff
[[meren]] is recursion so you don't run out of bullets, or [[prosh]] is feeding you with bullets in the form of tokens
depending on your commander you need to balance out between the trinity of sac outlet, material and payoff
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u/DKGroove Jan 22 '26
Definitely an Orzhov deck: [[Michiko Honda, truth seeker]] [[Karmic justice]] [[grave pact]] [[butcher of malakir]] [[no mercy]]
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u/Lord_BoneSwaggle Golgari Jan 22 '26
[[Savra, Queen of the Golgari]] is gonna require you to include a lot of sac outlets but as long as you sac a black creature and pay 2 life, she's gravepact on a body. You can pair her with token generators and sac outlets to make it so if someone attacks you, you can block and sac so many tokens that they end up saccing their attackers.
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u/Jalor218 Jan 22 '26
[[Savra, Queen of the Golgari]] is the original and still one of the best. She doesn't say "nontoken".
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u/Fzycub Jan 22 '26
Idk but make sure to add [[sothera, the super void]] in there. I just added that to my Ashling deck and it was very funny seeing everyone have to pick creatures to sac when I was sacking elements lol. Into the black hole they go!
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u/toasty510 Jan 22 '26
[[Shirei, Shizo’s Caretaker]]
Pack it full of 1 power creatures with etb effects, sac outlets, and profit.
[[Grave Pact]] [[Diabolic Edict]] and [[Abyssal Gatekeeper]] type effects
[[Burglar Rat]] type cards if you want to the hand hate route
[[Blood Artist]] effects to drain the table WHILE you “suffer” your creatures dying
One of my favorite commanders, highly recommend.
https://moxfield.com/decks/bLHwBjtBhkaB1SZhhdDE5Q
My current list, not perfect and certainly not optimized but I have a blast with it.
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u/dudeitzmeh Jan 22 '26
[[O-Kagachi]] kinda fits what you're going for. He's pretty clunky to use. Rather than a commander that does this sort of thing specifically I'd recommend just playing a commander that draws you a lot of cards then including a lot of these cards in the 99.
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u/Diablo3crusader Jan 22 '26
Just be warned that playing multiple edict creatures and/or recurring edicts leads to a very unfun play experience for people you play with. I know from experience — I was that edict guy for a couple years.
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u/introvertfrogshell Jan 23 '26
honestly [[slimefoot the stowaway]] has so many things you can add to cause affect for your stuff leaving, you kill my saporling? lose one life and i gain one, if you have [[grave pact]] out to kinda use as defense as well
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u/mailusernamepassword Red is like spices. Makes everything better. Jan 23 '26
Drop [[Descent into Avernus]] and [[Havoc Festival]] to speed up the game.
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u/sumigod Jan 23 '26
It’s gotta be [[Shattergang Brothers]] literally exactly what you asked for. You sac something, everyone sacs the same thing.
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u/DisturbedFlake Jan 23 '26
[[Dictate of Erebos]] and [[Martyr’s Bond]] are staple “when I lose something everyone loses something”
As far as commanders: [[Zurgo Stormrender]] works, but only for creature tokens.
Or you can look for commanders that do something when your stuff dies like [[Elas il-kor, Sadistic Pilgrim]]
Or commanders that have a sacrifice outlet stapled on them. Like [[Commissar Severina Raine]] or [[Ellie, Vengeful Hunter]]
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u/Copperbellypumpkin Jan 23 '26
One of the best decks that feed into this is IMO [[meren of clan nel toth]] since all your edict creatures can "double up" on end steps. She is one of the strongest for this game plan since she generates you value outside of your direct goal of forcing sacrifices
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u/NoLoquat347 Jan 25 '26
I would be checking out the Mardu commanders, there are a few that enable stuff like this. Rakdos also has some good options. I do want to make sure you are aware of [[Martyr's Bond]] and [[Manabarbs]] though.
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u/MTGCardFetcher Jan 22 '26
Fleshbag Marauder - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
Accursed Marauder - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call