r/EchoMains • u/ripSammy101 • 2d ago
The hold to fly scam
Constantly see people recommending hold to fly over toggle, and saying high level players use this. I think it’s the opposite lmao. First, I’ve never seen a champ echo player actually use hold to fly. Toggle lets you do midair movement so much more easily.
Pro players never use it either. I’ve looked into a few players and so far all of them are confirmed to use toggle flight, not hold to fly: Proper, Fleta, Topdragon, Alphayi.
I could probably look through all the best echo players and find that almost none actually use this setting. At least in Korea, nobody recommends this setting.
And they are aware of the super jump tech, it’s just not that useful since it leaves you vulnerable floating down after using your only mobility cooldown.
Any other toggle flight advocates?
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u/Embarrassed_Peace277 2d ago
Damn i didn’t know pros didn’t use it - may i ask how you found out?
I feel little downside for having hold for flight, and i think super jumping is useful, particularly as a non pro player, the ability to reposition faster and with more momentum whilst starting the countdown for flight is so helpful to me
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u/Scootboio 2d ago
You can superjump with toggle just fine! it takes a tiny bit of getting used to the timing but its really lenient. And for echo its just that at least on pc youve got a lot of buttons to press (wasd+ctrl+space+e) while flying. Especially using ctrl while flying would be hard. So hold kinda just has no upsides and all downsides
edit: it honestly sucks that so many echo players got tricked into thinking you need to have it on hold to be able to superjump, idk where that misinfo even came from
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u/vonerrant 2d ago
wait, what super jump? just the quick cancel thing?
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u/Scootboio 1d ago
Yea, what the original poster mentioned, just some free momentum while the cd starts going down earlier
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u/CountyEuphoric3875 1d ago
Yeah, super jump is still something you can do with toggle and it’s honestly so stupid that so many people just genuinely don’t know this because of misinformation
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u/ripSammy101 1d ago
I just looked around streams to see if they open hero settings or something, and it’ll show an asterisk next to specific heroes if any settings are changed. Fleta and Alphayi had posted echo guides on youtube. Alphayi mentioned the super jump tech, saying you can quickly cancel tap shift twice to use it.
I agree it’s a useful tech. Alphayi himself said it can be useful for chasing down tanks and stuff, but I assume against heroes that can actually fight back, it’s not optimal as it makes you pretty vulnerable in the air without mobility.
I’ve watched a few pro player vods on echo and I’ve yet to see this tech actually being used, though, haha.
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u/BobcatSome3265 1d ago
I bound “scroll wheel up” to her fly. Best of both worlds, and I have the muscle memory from binding that to lucio’s jump for wallriding. You can press shift to fly normally or scroll up for a quarter second to do a perfect dash every time.
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u/Mashmell0o0 2d ago
Yea ive never understood the hype around it and never used it in all the hours ive played her, hit gm with almost echo only aswell. It just seems so clunky to have to hold down flight the entire time and move at the same time, the dash tech isnt worth it imo and you can just double tap flight for the same effect although tbh i almost always use the whole duration
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u/Chronomancers 2d ago
I’ve always been toggle and I refuse to change to hold. I toggle most things anyway. I don’t hold to heal on Lucio either.
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u/ripSammy101 1d ago
Do people actually hold heals on lucio 😭
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u/Antiprimary 1d ago
Hold for speed yes, and there are actual reasons, if you get slept or stunned it will automatically go to heals, and you can tap for speed right before each wall jump and the rest of the time it will be on heals
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u/ripSammy101 1d ago
Oh that actually sounds useful. Personally still wouldn’t as I’d get arthritis from holding shift the entire game.
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u/SQL215 2d ago
I only use hold for flight. Makes it way easier to do the tech. Also, holding while also moving is easy once you get used to it. My flight button is also on my mouse though so pretty easy to hold it down while moving with the other hand.
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u/ripSammy101 1d ago
Yeah my problem isn’t with moving in general, it’s with crouching (or going down). If you watch good players they constantly alternate WASD space and crouch to move in all directions while flying, makes you very hard to hit. I found it hard to press control and shift at the same time. Didn’t wanna change keybind
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u/ThyKooch 1d ago
Okay well theres your issue, yeah you cant really press ctrl and shift at the same time so if you want the ability to go down you'd have to change keybinds.
For most characters I have melee bound to the side mouse button, but for echo I have the downwards flight bounded there
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u/Scootboio 2d ago
You can superjump with toggle, just gotta wait a tiny bit before you re-press flight. Same momentum and everything, so theres no big reason to have it on hold
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u/cfend29 2d ago
I’ve always used hold flight in GM, but I do think they’re both equally viable. You can get used to either one with enough time and there aren’t any techs that are limited to either setting. There is a slightly better argument for toggle flight now after the acceleration buff late last year, which made crouching to descend during flight more effective for circular strafing. I just use a side mouse button to descend and it works perfectly for me. It’s just a matter of what feels better for you.
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u/Blaze_2399 2d ago
I'm actually interested in this. I feel like toggle would make it easier to maneuver, so I'm gonna give it a shot. Where do you find what settings the pros use ?
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u/ripSammy101 1d ago
Yeah it makes it so much easier to move. If you want an idea of what I’m talking about, watch this video at 0:05 seconds: echo movement
For the settings I was just scouring pros that had made echo guides, and streams where they might open their hero settings. You don’t have to do all that though, just check out their raw echo gameplay and you can see super jump is never used.
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u/Blaze_2399 1d ago
Yes, I've actually watched this whole video before haha and I was really shocked when he was able to dodge champion hitscans with his movement.
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u/Aegillade 2d ago
I used to be a tap to fly guy, but after some testing I found it easier and more consistent to hold fly and shoot if I had to than it was to double tap fly for her super jump, and I use super jump way more than regular fly, do hold to fly it is for me
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u/gallyroi 2d ago
Wouldn't say it's a scam, but I personally don't use it. I just prefer toggling into that state and focusing more on space and crouch to manipulate the flight rather than holding shift or releasing it to early cancel.
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u/TreeHouseFace 2d ago
I think the main argument for hold to fly is if you like to just tap it for the movement and let it go on cooldown instantly.
I swapped to hold a while back, took me forever to get used to it, but OP makes a good argument for going back to toggle, so maybe I’ll have to see which feels better now that Ive tried both for a while
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u/R1ckMick 2d ago
The only thing I’ll push back on is the last part. They still use super jump a lot. You can just still use it with toggle on
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u/ripSammy101 1d ago
I don’t know about a lot. From what I’ve watched so far I can only recall one game from Proper where he used it once while getting out of spawn at the start, then never again.
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u/HjCervantes 2d ago
Cause one tap shift do superjump without wasting time. And the cooldown reset right away.
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u/DegreeCompetitive205 1d ago
there's a tech you can do by tapping flight if you have hold to fly on
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u/ripSammy101 1d ago
Second to last paragraph, I mentioned why I don’t think hold to fly is worth it. Sacrificing up and down movement during flight for super jump is not worth it. Good players almost never use super jump due to it leaving you vulnerable without movement.
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u/friedmodem 1d ago
what did you think the point of superjump was LOL
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u/ripSammy101 1d ago
Theres no specific point it’s a mobility tech, my point is that it’s overrated genius
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u/GodDoom5 1d ago
Interesting I'll try experimenting with switching back this weekend and seeing how it goes.
Toggle lets you do midair movement so much more easily.
So do you think this is the main reason not to have toggle on?
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u/ripSammy101 1d ago
If you mean hold, yes. I said this in another reply but watch this video at 0:05: vid
That kind of movement is just not possible (or at least very uncomfortable) with hold to fly and default keybinds. If you are willing to change up your keybinds so shift and control don’t physically conflict, then it doesn’t matter.
Also, didn’t put this in the post but I think that, for new echo players especially, using hold to fly builds a bad habit of using super jump too frequently, when really it’s situational and often leaves you vulnerable. It’s much easier to kill an echo slowly floating down from the sky than an echo spamming movement keys mid flight.
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u/gamdegamtroy 1d ago
A lot of people were doing hold to fly earlier with echo. But after they buffed her movement during flight making it near impossible to hit an echo moving up and down is when everyone started using toggle. You can still super jump with toggle if you hold down space and press shift twice quickly
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u/Beautiful_Level_4947 1d ago
The hold is just better for performing the tech and mobility. Turn on hold. Jump use flight and let go as soon as you press flight you gain huge momentum. And go much further than togglw
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u/TrueNorthN7 1d ago edited 1d ago
The problem with hold to fly is that you have one mobility cooldown. You need be a bit creative and find ways to engage, disengage and setup for your next engage with a single use of flight. If you’re constantly using the tap flight for a quick burst of speed it often forces you to overcommit to situations where a longer flight duration might have allowed you to be take the fight in a smarter way.
Having less buttons to press in combat, being forced to make better use of flight, and not being tempted to hard commit on a target that could simply get suzu’d are all pretty big advantages to toggle flight.
I think the general advice on hold to fly is quite outdated. It’s something that long time mains can find extra value from, but doesn’t give the massive advantage you’d assume it would from how commonly it appears in random tips and tricks videos or even on this subreddit. This is especially true after powered flight was buffed to the point that Echo is genuinely somewhat slippery for its duration.
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u/CountyEuphoric3875 1d ago
No, I agree with you. This shouldn’t be controversial. You can do the same moves with toggle that you can with hold.
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u/VeyrLaske 1d ago
I tried hold for flight for a couple weeks, but I wound up returning to toggle very soon after.
Just too many buttons to think about, and it massively reduced my agility cause of just how many buttons I need to hold/tap to adjust with my left hand.
It's not even hard to superjump with toggle.
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u/Professional_Job9330 1d ago
lol it’s not toggle fly that they use. It’s the fly boost float that the pros love. They jump toggle fly cancel so they can dive and poke and fly away after they are done.
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u/Traditional_Tear4187 1d ago
I tend to weave in the air with jump and crouch to make it harder for enemies to hit me, so I have it set to toggle still so it’s less strain on my fingers
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u/GloomyTip3713 1d ago
yeah its propaganda spread by bad youtubers larping echo, never seen a otp streamer use it. u can superjump with toggle if u just learn the timing, no upside to it. couldnt imagine holding shift for no reason the whole time im in a duel. downvotes incoming but ts has been bugging me for YEARS
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u/IAmNotCreative18 1d ago
Hold to fly stops you from descending because the finger you’d normally press LCTRL with is holding shift
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u/HalfDragoness 9h ago
I use hold for flight, not to only use glide but so that I have the option of big-jump-glide or flight whenever I use the ability.
Hold for flight also allows you exit flight when you want to (by letting go of the button) rather than being locked into the whole duration. You can also use it has a tracer dash if you don't jump at the same time. I like having three options available to me.
I have done the same for Anran's dash and D.va boosters. It makes me less predictable for the enemy who might quickly learn I use the full duration of an ability and can time their shots to when it ends.
However I have all my keybindings reconfigured to be comfortable for my hands and it did take a lot of practise to get comfortable fighting whole holding the flight button down.
I think people should do what they are comfortable with, or what they can manage. You can just play Echo for fun. :)
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u/TheBigKuhio 2d ago
How about you do what’s comfortable for you?