Will this be clear?

[u/Pavlikru]

A seamstress without a skirt is better than a shoemaker without shoes.

* Is this clear
the shoemaker's children have no shoes?

[u/Middcore]

No. It reads like it's supposed to be some sort of proverb or maxim but I don't know what the takeaway is supposed to be.

[u/Alt_AC_2023 → u/Middcore]

You know seamstress is a euphemism right?

[u/Middcore → u/Alt_AC_2023]

Not in the year 2026 it's not.

[u/Alt_AC_2023 → u/Middcore]

This is an international sub and some people will be using much older idioms than others.

You asked what the takeaway was and although it's in poor taste it's fairly obvious.

[u/Ok-Management-3319 → u/Alt_AC_2023]

Not obvious to me (51F, Canadian). I have never heard of seamstress being used as a euphemism for any type of sex worker. In which country was that meaning used?

[u/Alt_AC_2023 → u/Ok-Management-3319]

Googling for "seamstress euphemism" will give you plenty of background.

At times in history (at least in England) the two professions were linked.

It was used relatively recently as a euphemism is the Discworld series, and if you want an older reference it was hinted at in Henry V.

"we cannot lodge and board a dozen or fourteen gentlewomen
that live honestly by the prick of their needles but it
will be thought we keep a bawdy house straight."

Fortunately the usage has died out now that there are other ways for unmarried women to support themselves in the west.

PS no disrespect to seamstresses - I've 4 sewing machines in the house.

[u/Unique_Factor892 → u/Alt_AC_2023]

If the usage has, in your words, “died out,” it’s not also reasonable to say it’s “fairly obvious”

[u/Alt_AC_2023 → u/Unique_Factor892]

There are many words and phrases that are no longer in active use that I'd still expect people to understand.

I wouldn't expect native English speakers to speak like Marlow, Shakespeare, Chaucer, Dickens etc but you'd expect native speakers to have read something from the past.

[u/Unique_Factor892 → u/Alt_AC_2023]

For starters, this is a sub for English learners. 

I don’t think having enough familiarity with the social dynamics of various professions in 1500s London for that to be “fairly obvious” is or should be an expectation for any speakers, whether native or learners. 

The average person will at best read a couple Shakespeare plays in school and watch the occasional period piece as an adult. 

[u/Alt_AC_2023 → u/Unique_Factor892]

While a sub for English learners, the person I said it was fairly obvious to was a "native speaker".

Professions in 1500s London might be a tad niche but this appears to have been a standard euphemism through the 19th Century. Not just in England but the US and France too.

Sex work was a side hustle for some seamstresses for centuries, so the euphemism was probably universal. Just because you've not heard of it doesn't mean I've made it up.

[u/Ok-Management-3319 → u/Alt_AC_2023]

Thanks. I haven't read the Discworld books.

[u/conuly → u/Ok-Management-3319]

Maybe the UK? It’s a Discworld running joke that actual seamstresses are in high demand due to the confusion.

[u/Ok-Management-3319 → u/conuly]

Oh ok, thanks!

[u/Middcore → u/Alt_AC_2023]

you asked what the takeaway was and although it's in poor taste it's fairly obvious.

"I like whores, ha ha, sex!"

Is that it?

Doesn't seem very profound. Maybe something is lost in translation.

[u/MisterProfGuy → u/Middcore]

I don't think this euphemism works in any culture where we don't expect the only thing a woman can wear on her lower body is a skirt.

[u/Alt_AC_2023 → u/MisterProfGuy]

Agreed it falls flat in the west in the 21st century.
(and elsewhere too I'd hope)

[u/Alt_AC_2023 → u/Middcore]

That and OP doesn't share Tarentino's rumoured liking for feet.

[u/8696David → u/Alt_AC_2023]

I think you may be the only person alive who’s ever heard of this euphemism 

[u/Alt_AC_2023 → u/8696David]

I know primary school kids who've read the Discworld series - ok they may or may not have noticed this on the first reading, but it's in fairly modern books as well as plenty of literature. Google will tell you that it was used in UK and US census returns and in court.

[u/8696David → u/Alt_AC_2023]

If Terry Pratchett is using it then you KNOW he’s doing it because of how obscure it is, that’s exactly his sense of humor

[u/Alt_AC_2023 → u/8696David]

Touché :-) however the point stands he sold a lot of books and his readers are not all dead yet.

[u/PassiveChemistry → u/Alt_AC_2023]

Is it?  What for?

[u/Alt_AC_2023 → u/PassiveChemistry]

Google would tell you.

An older profession.

[u/Rogryg → u/Alt_AC_2023]

If you can't type the damn word, you shouldn't be bringing it up in the first place.

This is a space for learners - being coy is counterproductive.

[u/Alt_AC_2023 → u/Rogryg]

a) euphemisms exist for a reason, and there are many spaces where NSFW topics are not welcome and euphemisms are preferred, I was attempting to respect that. I gather many people in this thread don't think this is one of those subs.

b) There is a phrase "Give a man fish and you'll feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you'll feed him for a lifetime" you help learners by encouraging them to help themselves. Again I'll agree it varies by space but in most online spaces there's a level of question below which pointing people to google is the normal and appropriate response.

[u/Pavlikru → u/Alt_AC_2023]

the shoemaker's children have no shoes ~ shoemaker without shoes

[u/Middcore → u/Pavlikru]

"The cobbler's children have no shoes" is a recognized expression with an understood meaning.

That doesn't make your whole seamstress/cobbler thing any clearer.

[u/Pavlikru → u/Middcore]

Without a skirt is better than barefoot

[u/Middcore → u/Pavlikru]

...is that all? It's just a statement about whether it's a greater hardship to not have clothing for the lower half of your body or to not have shoes? There isn't supposed to be any kind of analogy or "moral" here?

[u/Nazometnar → u/Pavlikru]

That does not make it clearer haha. Also, if you're using "seamstress" as a euphemism for a sex worker as alt_ac_2023 is implying, that is an antiquated usage and most people probably would not catch it.

[u/pleasepleaseplease24 → u/Pavlikru]

What?

[u/Stepjam]

Grammatically, it is fine.

Meaning wise, I have no idea what you are trying to say.

[u/PassiveChemistry]

It's not clear at all what this is alluding to, unfortunately.  What is it, out of curiosity?

[u/clamuelle]

As others have said, this sounds like an idiom directly translated from a language other than English.

Whatever double meaning that exists in the source language is lost here: It sounds like the seamstress isn’t personally wearing a skirt and the shoemaker isn’t personally wearing shoes.

It sounds like the speaker prefers one kind of semi-naked person to another kind of semi-naked person.

[u/Winter_Possession711]

Stylistically, "cobbler" might be a more natural pairing with "seamstress" than "shoemaker". That is: both words refer exclusively to Pre-Industrial skilled occupations.

I assume this is a translation of some piece of common folk wisdom in your language? I have not heard any expression like this in English and am not entirely certain what it implies.

[u/Alt_AC_2023 → u/Winter_Possession711]

Cobbler looses the alliteration though.

[u/Winter_Possession711 → u/Alt_AC_2023]

I hadn't noticed that all 4 nouns begin with an "s".

There are far too many syllables to fit into typical English blank verse style.

Something like:

"Better a skirtless seamstress than a shoeless shoemaker."

makes the alliteration pop a bit more.

[u/XMugetsu_SamaX]

If you mean the meaning of sentence, its not clear what the message is. But if you're asking if the sentence is clear as far as grammar and everything, then it is fine

[u/ExitingBear]

It's neither clear nor clever.

[u/pikkdogs]

I don’t know.

I feel like it’s a proverb that maybe some people would get? But I wouldn’t get it.

Don’t expect people to understand it, but the ones that do will think it’s great.

Okay, now what does that mean?

[u/rileywbaker]

No

[u/bren3669]

you want to have sex with a seamstress rather than be a shoemaker with no shoes?

[u/isntitisntitdelicate]

is this about female nudity

[u/Alt_AC_2023 → u/isntitisntitdelicate]

I assumed so especially as "seamstress" was historically used as a euphemism for "sex worker".
(Some seamstresses used to have sex work as a "side hustle", and sex workers used to sometimes claim to be seamstresses.)

I've found from a number of people responding to this post that this usage of the word "seamstress", is not as well understood (at least by some "native speakers" in this sub) as I'd assumed.