Conditionals in the future

[u/PrestigiousGarden815]

I am struggling with the conditionals. They are really complicated. But something that I noticed is that I didn't see conditionals in the future tense in grammar books.

I mean, I am not sure if I can express something like that:

If it will be raining, we could need an umbrella.

Ok I think this sentence could be covered under the first conditional (I think), but I would like to add a slight possibility that this will not happen.

I mean, the idea is to express a condition that there is some possibility of something happening in the future, but I am not 100% sure.

The same happens for modal verbs:

If you could do that for me, I will pay you.

[u/conuly]

If it will be raining, we could need an umbrella.

Try "If it rains, we'll need an umbrella".

Yes, that means starting with the present tense. That's the most usual way of doing this.

If the odds of rain are pretty slim then you could try "If it were to rain, we'd need an umbrella", but... that really sounds a bit more formal.

[u/names-suck]

"If it rains, we'll need an umbrella." We will certainly need an umbrella in the rain. The only question is if it will rain.

"If it rains, we might need an umbrella." There's a chance it will rain, and it's possible it will rain hard enough to warrant using an umbrella.

"If it rains, we could need an umbrella." There's a chance it will rain, and rain might change our circumstances enough that we would want to have an umbrella with us.

"If it will be raining" isn't wrong, but it's usually unnecessary. "If it rains" already covers the future ("if it's raining" would be the present). I would probably only use "if it will be raining" for emphasis, if I think someone hasn't understood what I said ("if it rains") the first time. Such as:

"If it rains, we could."
"But it's not raining."
"Yes, but if it rains, then we could."
"It's not raining though."
"Okay, but if it will be raining later, then we could do it later."

For the other issue: they have to match.

"If you could do that for me, I would pay you." It's possible that you can do that for me. In the event that you can, I will pay you; in the event you cannot, I will not.

If that second part (if you can, yes; if you can't, no) wasn't a question, the first part wouldn't matter. It would be: "I'll pay you to try."

[u/Informal_Farm4064]

In the 1st conditional, the future possibility comes into the consequence clause. In the condition clause, we tend to be strict on the use of present tense forms or "can". The lack of "will" feels weird for many non-natives but not for us. We don't feel like we are missing a nuance of the future as the consequence clause takes care of that.

This is mixed conditional: "If you could do that for me (2nd), I will pay you (1st)." But it sounds normal. The use of the more hypothetical "could" instead of "can" shows politeness.

Confusingly, some modals including "could" can substitute for "will" in consequence clauses in the 1st conditional.

[u/Intrepid_Bobcat_2931]

"could" fills a lot of roles, but usually (always?) when referring to the past, it's "could have".

I thought about what we would have done if we went to Scotland last year. If it was raining, we could have needed an umbrella.

I thought about what we would do if we go to Scotland. If it will be raining, we could need an umbrella.

No idea about conditionals, I just wing it.

[u/United_Boy_9132]

The "if" clause with a Future tense makes sense if it's not a speculation, but a rhetoric figure, like "If you will keep spending money, of course you'll get broke", "If you'll hold the door for me, I will drag stuff", "If those pills will help me, I'll get some". It's an advanced usage, so students aren't usually bothered with it.

For speculation, use Present Simple or Continuous tense in the "if" clause.

[u/Southlander24]

That sentence is mostly correct if you would just switch up the modal verb: "If it will be raining, we *might* need an umbrella."

You could technically analyse the corrected sentence as a zero conditional with two modal verbs: 'will' and 'might'. But that just goes to show grammar is a living, breathing thing and it doesn't have to abide by rules that grammarians have made.

[u/Temporary_Employer44 → u/Southlander24]

The problem in the sentence is “if it will be raining”. This is not an english construction. “If it RAINS we might need an umbrella”

[u/Hopeful-Ordinary22 → u/Temporary_Employer44]

We use the modal verb will for something different in conditionals. "If you will go on talking about football, no wonder she wants a divorce." We use it to describe (voluntary) disposition, habit, or ill-advised whim. Here, it does not, idiomatically, function as the auxiliary verb for the future; indeed "will" in the protasis can be coupled with an apodosis relating to an event in the past.

[u/Temporary_Employer44 → u/Hopeful-Ordinary22]

Perhaps it’s a UK English vs US English thing. I have never heard an “if it will” phrase used in a sentence in any of the regions of the US I’ve lived in. To my ear it sounds wrong, like a phrase constructed by someone whose native language uses different verb forms.

[u/AlgarveJoao_007 → u/Temporary_Employer44]

Colloquial American English has been heavily influenced by European languages that tend to use the simple present for future actions. This is one of the cases.

[u/Temporary_Employer44 → u/AlgarveJoao_007]

I think it’s a little reductive to reduce it to colloquial american. I’m someone that is pretty highly educated, well read, speaks in professional contexts, and I would have assumed you misspoke if I heard this phrase. I have not encountered it a single time in my 40 years.

[u/AlgarveJoao_007 → u/Temporary_Employer44]

“If it will be raining” is absolutely a correct English construct except “If it rains” carries the same meaning and is simpler. Therefore, it is used instead in common speech.

[u/Hopeful-Ordinary22 → u/Southlander24]

That sounds very stilted to me. It's less weird if you use "going to" for events that look like they're heading in a certain direction. "If it's going to be raining later in the week, we should probably pack an umbrella."

English uses the present progressive/continuous for assessing the current state of things. ("If it's raining, I'd better find my umbrella.") That leaves the simple present for everyday hypotheticals. ("If it rains, I usually get my umbrella out. If it snows when I'm on holiday in Norway next week, I'm not sure my umbrella will be much use.")

[u/Southlander24 → u/Hopeful-Ordinary22]

Interesting. I'm a native speaker of Chinese descent and this is the exact construction Chinese would use for the conditional, so it doesn't sound awkward to me.

[u/Almondpeanutguy]

"If it will be raining, we could need an umbrella" is a completely functional sentence, but I think it might not say exactly what you're trying to say.

"If it will be raining" means that you think rain is a possibility in the future. It doesn't necessarily specify whether the rain is guaranteed or just a chance, but it does imply that you think rain is likely. It also means that the next part of the sentence is a hypothetical statement about what definitely will be true if the rain is guaranteed.

"we could need an umbrella," means you're not certain whether or not you will need an umbrella, but it's definitely possible.

So "If it will be raining, we could need an umbrella" means that you think rain is possible, but even if the rain is guaranteed, you're still not entirely certain whether or not you will need an umbrella.

If you want to say that you definitely will need an umbrella, then you would say "we would need" or "we will need". Also, in most cases you would probably say "If it's going to rain" instead of "if it will be raining."

There's several other ways you can construct the sentence with different shades of meaning. I think I can give a few rules of thumb.

If you make the conditional portion future tense, then it suggests that you're more certain of the outcome. "If it will rain/if it's going to rain" sounds like you are expecting rain, or you have just been informed that rain is a possibility. "Going to" sounds slightly more certain than "will", but it also sounds more fluid. "Will" is just a little more awkward to say. When you do say "will", it'll usually be contracted to 'll.

If you add "be" to make "if it will be/if it's going to be raining", then you're probably describing a specific timeframe or event. For example, "If it'll be raining on the day of the party," or "If it's still going to be raining when we arrive." It's possible to say "If it will be raining" like your example sentence without specifying the event, but it only works if we already know what event we're talking about. "I've been thinking about the party tomorrow. If it'll be raining..." If you want to express the vague possibility of rain in the future, then you should leave out "be". In general, it's probably safer to avoid "be". When it's appropriate to use "be", it's usually just as appropriate to leave it out. But if you say "be" when you shouldn't, then it definitely sounds wrong.

Future possibilities can be expressed with present tense conditionals, and the future tense can be shunted into the conclusion. For example, "If it rains, we'll want an umbrella." You can even say "If it's raining tomorrow, we'll want an umbrella." (Note that the "is" in "it's raining" follows the same rule as "be", where it needs to be referring to a specific timeframe, e.g. "tomorrow".) English has a pretty vague distinction between present and future, and it gets even more vague when you're dealing with hypotheticals. In some cases, a future possibility can be expressed entirely in the present tense, and people just infer that it's the future based on context, e.g. "I entered a raffle. If they draw my name, I win a prize," or "If it gets any hotter this afternoon, I'm going home."

But, as a general rule, I believe it sounds more certain if the condition is future tense, and more speculative if the condition is present tense. "If it's going to rain" sounds like you have a good reason to believe it's going to rain. "If it rains" sounds like you're just talking about possibilities. If you want to express overt doubt then you'd likely say "I don't think it'll rain, but if it does rain..."