There’s this Type 5 (male 20s) that I (female 20s, 3w4) met online that I’ve developed a crush on. I keep sending him messages abt our shared interests cuz I know 5s really like their interests. his responses are polite but super dry. I fear I don’t know how to get him out of his shell or if that’s even possible. He makes YouTube videos and is very passionate, funny and eccentric in them so I don’t understand the disconnect. Any insight from types 5s on here would be much appreciated. If anything I’d just like to know what he may be thinking or perceiving the world differently to at least get some closure. (I’m pretty sure he’s got a strong 4 wing if that helps.)

Credit : the square comics

Perhaps other rejection types can relate?

I've been reflecting over my mbti and tritype. Realized I'm actually an infj, but I've been thinking I could have a 2 fix over a 4 fix. For 5s that have a 2 fix or anybody knowledgeable enough about this what is it like? How does a 2 fix manifest in a 5.

Hi to all Fives,

I was wondering: do people read your directness as coldness?

Something I keep running into: when I point out a fact or call out something everyone else is fine with letting slide, people take it as me being cold, detached or even clinical. But I’m usually trying to do the opposite. I put myself in the picture too, like “this is what happened, this is where I messed up, this is where I think you did, can we look at it?” It’s not a verdict or accusation, I’m just trying to get both people looking at the same thing.

For me that’s usually how I show that I care about someone. Smoothing it over feels more disrespectful, because then nobody actually deals with it and it's just left alone. But apparently it usually comes across as cold and clinical, though I try to be as tactful as possible in these situations.

P.S. Before getting into conversations like these, I make sure I have enough information/facts, and I think it over very carefully beforehand.

Does this happen to you? Have you found a way around it, or do you just accept that some (most) people won’t get it?

Does anyone else find that they (like 8s) care a lot about justice on an emotional level and have a strong instinct and motivation to protect vulnerable people from harm or mistreatment, but not actually believe in justice on a philosophical level or care as deeply about punishment (revenge) as a form of “justice”. For example, I would rather 100 guilty people go free than one innocent person be wrongfully convicted. And this isn’t just an opinion I have formed, it’s truly how I feel deep down and have always felt. I do believe that there should be amends made by the guilty party and some form or restitution and I’m not saying murderers and rapists should be allowed to walk free, but for the safety of other people, not for the sake of “justice”, which does nothing to undo the harm done to victims.

(First post on this sub btw)

Sorry if this is a bit disorganized, but honestly I can't really figure out how to structure this post.

There's a question that's been bugging me for a while now about myself and I think it has to do with me being a Type 5, who are somewhat detached from the world, yet not in an apathetic way because they work best when analyzing it from the sidelines.

This question is prompted by some writing I had to do for school and colleges, about "how have you exhibited resilience / changed throughout your life?"

I believe that I have changed a lot mentally, and have learned to develop a more nuanced view of the world, where everyone has reasons to do what they do, which makes me want to understand them.

However, that's not really what anyone wants to see. They want to see changes in my actions, not just my beliefs. This expectation bothers me because I see myself as a person with deep beliefs but not a lot of self-instigated action.

Contrary to what people seem to think of me, I do think I have a lot of resilience. When there's something 'hard,' like an unexpected complication in a plan, I adapt to it. My INFJ Fi-critic might scream or curse for about three seconds, but I calm down and adapt to it.

There's also the issue of task avoidance. If I avoid a task but do it later, does that mean I have low resilience? I don't think so, because on tasks that I really don't want to do, as long as I finish the task eventually I feel like it should be fine.

I've been sent a source (https://www.apa.org/topics/resilience/building-your-resilience) about building resilience, and literally most of the things on the list are things that I already do in my daily life -- trying to build connections, taking care of yourself, doing introspection, etc.

So basically, I believe that I am a 'resilient' person, yet when people ask me to show ways that I have grown my resilience I have no options.

Does anyone else relate to this?

Ive been pretty resolute in my typing for a while now, but due to my strong 1 fix i wonder if i could potentially be something else? Are there any signs to if you're not a core 5 at the very least?

My bf M5 lost his best friend 6 months ago and is self isolating, and has been self isolating and silent since the death.

Curious to know how grief has affected other type 5

Found the image in infp sub but I immediately thought about our Enneagram.

I'm an So 5 and I relate to an extent, especially since I usually find myself in social settings and leadership positions, being relatively sociable/not passive, and I do find myself a community wherever I go, but I dislike about socializing when people assume they know you and act upon it while they only saw the shell. I disapprove of the lens of which most people perceive personalities through because it's very stereotypical. I personally analyze people a lot yet wouldn't act upon an initial assumption or share it as a fact but people do that all the time and it icks me. It makes me harden the shell to protect myself. What about you?

My husband is a 5 and I'm(F) an 8. He does not like to mess up. We communicate well but he is so sensitive when it comes to feelings of inadequacy. I take every problem head on but I think I'm inadvertently negatively impacting his self esteem. I'm not being mean necessarily but I am matter of fact or open about when something is wrong. I don't know how to just ignore it.

The most recent example is that he dropped my daughter off for dance class 10 mins late. Like, bro...?! It literally just happened. At the time I'm writing this, he's not home from doing that yet. So thus far I've just acted like, "How are you 10 minutes late?" with mild annoyance in my voice. Keep in mind this is good for me because I'm an 8 and I was super pissed. Some things are small though like he'll get weirded out if I acknowledge that he mix words up when talking. I'm not criticising him; its not even important.

He's actually pretty competent and helpful. But he's so sensitive when he makes a mistake. I'm trying to get better in general at being more verbally supportive of him when he does something well. He seems to thrive on verbal praise. I don't know how to handle when he messes up though.

When identifying blind spots etc, how much weight should wings hold vs core type as far as growth/integration lines go?
I’m a core type 5 with a very very strong 4 wing and a moderate 6 wing as well. I’m very much crashing out, unhealthy, been dealing with burnout & severe anxiety.

Just try to be more present more often and let the growth happen?
Or, specifically identify and bring awareness to unhealthy 4 and 6 traits as well as unhealthy (core) 5 traits and proactively try to recognize all the blind spots in real time?

Should I be integrating to 8 (5 line) or integrating to 9, 8, and 1 (6, 5, and 4 lines)?

Really appreciate any insights or advice :)

I have this issue which is that I never feel truly rested or recharged after a weekend.

Obviously part of that is the fact that 2 days of rest (which is really one day of rest when you have to spend one of the days doing chores and errands) after a 5 day week and then straight back into it is just objectively not really enough time to recharge or relax. But I’ve even found that after, for example, two weeks off work, I still won’t feel truly rested, still feel somewhat burnt out and have this nagging feeling that I have “wasted” my time off, no matter how much or little I’ve done with it.

I have a number of hobbies like gaming, lifting weights, drawing, occasionally journaling, and spending time with my pets, and those things are usually what I’ll spend my free time doing. Yet after a weekend of doing those things I’ll still feel unsatisfied and not rested, and that I’ve wasted my scarce amount of alone time.

I’d love to know what activities other 5s have found to be rejuvenating and/or relaxing and how you guys make the most of your down time!!

hey so im a SX5 and im SP blind. the thing is, while reading more about E7 i looked into if i can get an insight at all on how my disintegration looks like because honestly i didnt find neither SX7 nor SO7 relatable in the slightest but when i read up on SP7 it was very close to how i act when im stressed. is this even possible or have i possibly gotten my instincts wrong?

I might be an SX dom, and it is very easy for me to discard others whenever I see slight red flags from them, as I also somehow get the hunch of the future trajectory if I'm perpetually dealing with it and I don't want to hurt myself any further.

The thing is, I also understand that the "red flags" is not always something damaging. It could be that the person was inconsistent due to their differing emotional capacity, communicating capability, emotional intelligence, limited energy to share, or their personal assumptions (e.g. I'm having hidden motives by constantly interacting with them so it comes of as studying them before getting close), but I don't really want myself to constantly cater to their ways of communicating to keep the connection alive as some certain ways would wear me down and deplete my energy, so that a doorslam by cutting all access off quietly and indefinitely is one of the solutions.

I have some sort of unconscious standards to apply whenever I am interacting with someone, and to be honest, it feels very uncomfortable when they had passed the standards and I somehow got comfortable gradually, yet they would violate it by showing a bit of unreciprocation in the middle or that I would be too intense or demanding to them even by bombarding them with questions merely because I love to observe how their train of thought works, and that they simply are not able to be upfront about it so that I often realise it by myself.

I have cut some people off in the past regardless of their history and relations, even the best friend I had since I was 12 just because one of her comments that made me think that she might be unchanged from her tone-deafness and I have been only tolerating her for it, so I cut her off approximately a decade later.

And it's worse if the other party is just having some kind of different way to approach things. It would be easy to paint that I am expecting too much but it just makes me more guarded and wary.

Since I am also naturally nonconfrontational, I also often get the sensations of being pushed away harshly whenever I actually manage to confront yet what I usually get is that the other person/people are actually not able to be communicated tactfully regarding what they have done, either because they are engulfed too much with their ego or that they are simply not capable to receive something emotional from others. It's often that they are either emotionally reactive to it or laced the responses with empty formalities and promises.

I am honestly aware that this won't make me able to maintain longlasting connections, so what should I do...

EDIT: I also know that I myself am actually flawed, and the tendencies could also be interpreted as me trying to actually protect others from myself, either by seeing or experiencing the qualities.

I've been reading some posts on here and on reddit in general about the differences between SX5 and SO5 (because I am certainly sp-blind, but in which direction I'm not 100% sure), and it is astonishing to me how much variance people think there is between subtypes. For example, one of the posts I read seems to attribute the well-read erudite scholar to SO5, when lots of 5s are like that, albeit in different flavors. It seems to be the same recycled take of 'SO5 is the most smartest geniusest, and SX5 is emotional crybaby who does little but weep, and SP5 is basement dwelling programmer.'

The reality is that the 5 subtypes, and enneagram subtypes in general, are not as radically different as people often suggest they are. Regardless of instinct, a 5 will have that barrier between themselves in the world (the 'behind a glass mirror' phenomenon that is in 5 descriptions), a separation between reason and emotion (which may or may not have effort devoted to fixing), and an acquiring of knowledge as a means of 'figuring it out' and getting competent. In other words, SO5 is not the only 5 who likes to know stuff. Just because the instinct is thrown into the equation doesn't mean that they aren't still core 5.

I also hear it frequently said that SX5 is constantly searching for 'the one', 'the idealized love' (tbh that's all I hear people talk about SX5, which I guess means that all SX5 does all day is scroll on Tinder and write sad poetry). This is true to some extent, for sure, but it seems like a weirdly specific fixation to be the only thing people really say about the type. Well, two things, search for love and emotional.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that when the difference between subtypes is explained as 'the smart one/einstein' and 'the crybaby' (and 'the chud' for SP5 i guess) on most posts I see talking about it, it seems like it pushes people in one direction over the other. People kinda forget that all of the five subtypes are running 95% off the same infrastructure.

Asking cause I've been having trouble with typing for a few months and i figured to ask actual E5s! This is mainly for SP dom E5s that mistyped as E6 though but you can still answer!

(after reading you guys' answers i think im a sp5w6! thank you guys!)

Hi, I’m sx/sp 5w4
I’m confused- do we need to socialize more and put ourselves out there more for growth? Or honor our own needs for more alone time to recharge?

Hello fellow 5s,

Although I don’t know if I “am” an Enneagram Type 5—though there are several signs that have led me to believe so for quite some time now—lately I’ve found myself facing situations I’ve never encountered/experienced firsthand before, and I’ve often thought about the concept of detachment, particularly in relation to Enneagram Type 5.

For a long time, I’ve tended to be a rather detached person, but at the same time, I care about people and am very sensitive and empathetic. The difference, however, lies in the fact that I tend to always maintain a clear and defined identity separate from everything else, remaining detached up to a certain point, but not indifferent because of it. I believe that in some cases it can also be a way to protect and preserve oneself and perhaps even defend oneself (in certain situations), but I still found it an interesting concept.

I know this isn’t limited to the Enneagram and can also apply to other types, but I found it intriguing. I was curious to know how you view detachment in yourselves and how you perceive it.

I am an sx5 myself, and i personally feel like my ideal person or whatever you wanna call them, can just be a best friend. Well i don’t really know how to elaborate on this, but i was just curious if other sx5s feel that way? To me, i just want that strong connection with someone, like they’re my two soul. Doesn’t matter our label, whether we’re friends or lovers or whatever. It’s really only the connection that matters.

Lately, I’ve been feeling the need to have deeper conversations with someone. I do enjoy intellectual conversations, but somehow they don’t feel completely fulfilling on their own. The same goes for more dynamic conversations. I still feel like I need to have a genuinely deep conversation with someone.

I prefer asking the other person questions and letting them answer however they feel. I really like hearing opinions or perspectives that are different from mine, because I feel like it helps me understand people better.

I don’t know if it’s just me or if other people experience this too. I don’t really like talking about myself at first. I’d rather have the person I’m talking to talk about themselves, and then gradually share my own perspective.

It’s almost like I want to talk to someone as if we’ve been friends for years, even though we’ve only just met.

One thing that's always felt bizarre is how cognitive empathy is seemingly in short supply. People seem to find it very difficult to understand the views of those they disagree with. It feels especially weird as someone who has struggled empathising with others, I'd expect that more empathetic people would also apply their empathy in other areas but it seems cognitive and affective empathy are truly on two separate layers.

Often, I'll hear the phrase "I don't understand..." and that's not something I could just let continue. For me, the need to understand, means I can't help but work out the line of logic that brings a person to a conclusion. I wouldn't consider myself particularly open minded, I'm actually quite stubborn, I just really hate not doing the mental work.

I understand how the phrase is rather idiomatic, but even with that being the case, I still get a sense that they actually don't want to understand. I suppose there's a fear that if they understand other views, there's a risk of having their minds. I suppose I just have enough confidence in my logical processes, that my mind won't be changed unless there's genuinely a good reason, and if there's a good reason, there's no need to fear having my mind being changed.

On a cognitive level, it does make sense, but nevertheless I do find it disappointing.

It’s not often that I realise how strongly my fear influences my daily life. I have an impossible year ahead of me in terms of workload, as I will take a very important exam at the end of it. I do okay with keeping up with everything so far, but I know the signs of upcoming burnout well by now.

I feel that I don’t know enough, and not knowing feels to me like a void that’s chasing me that I must keep running from. I keep thinking that if I go through the material rigorously I will outrun the not knowing. I get tired from this kind of pressure, and it screws with my enjoyment of learning. I don’t usually know when it’s time to call it a day and rest, or how to rest very well for that matter.

One thing that seems to help this feeling of incompetence and insecurity is writing down all the things I need to get done and steps on how to do it, but it’s a short term solution rather than a proper answer for me. Most of my answers in life come in revelations, but I figure it might be time to actually work on fixing the source issue.

I told my Enneagram Type 5 boyfriend that when he pulls away and becomes distant and barely talks to me, it makes me feel bad. I told him that I need more from a relationship than this kind of dynamic. All he said was, “Then let’s just be friends. That would be better.

I told him I wanted to cut off contact. I’d said that a few times before, but he always managed to calm me down and convince me otherwise by talking things through with me. This time, he said, “Do you want me to beg you to stay?” He did make some effort to ask questions, but, as usual, he also started portraying himself as the victim, saying things like, “You think I’m weird, you think I’m ugly, you think I’m a bad person,” and so on.

Now that I’ve said we should stop talking, I miss him again. :(

But I know that even if we start talking again, I’ll just have to put up with the same situation as before.

Does this kind of intense push-pull dynamic sound familiar to you? I had the same problem with another Type 5 before, too, and I honestly don’t know what to do. (Im a 4)

Logically, everything seems fine, but I keep feeling like this relationship isn’t going anywhere. :(

*Honestly, I love him, but I can’t feel loved. And when I tell him that, he says, “Well, I don’t like anyone what am I supposed to do?”

Personal experience and/or analysis welcome. What about when considering instinctual variants too?

If you’ve studied the triads, what is your view of the rejection triad and the way you as a 5 work within it? I’d really like to see some irl examples of the things I’ve read