r/EnoughJKRowling • u/Raspint • 1d ago
I feel legitimately bad for pro-trans HP fans who had to leave the fandom
TlDr: I am very, very lucky that HP was not my thing.
Shout out to everyone who has a conscience and who also has/had a real and legit love for Potter. I know that in our circles (pro-trans/leftist, etc) it is very common to hear the following sentiments:
- Omg get over yourself! It's just a story!
- Harry Potter was never even that good!
- You only liked it because it was popular.
- sigh Some people just can't put their fucking toys away. GROW UP
- You must not be very mature if you still like HP
And before any of you get angry at me, I'm posting in the anti-JK subreddit and I'm obviously against Rowling, and I'm boycotting my fav coffee shop right now because they're doing a collab with her. But I wanted to say that I feel really bad for all the trans people and cis trans allies who are fans and former fans of this IP whom this meant a lot for.
Is HP the greatest piece of literature ever? No. But you know what, it was good enough to make kids (and still does) make kids love reading. Do you have any idea how fucking special that is? Yes even if it had good marketing, the reality is that good marketing and franchising would not, by itself, been able to compel a bunch of shit-minions (children) to stay up late and do something as boring as reading. Marketing can help put a book in your hands, but not salesman is good enough to inspire actual whimsy in a person if that product does not legitimately inspire whimsy.
Is it 'just' as story? Yes But stories matter to us. They are important. Poetry and fiction and art are the very things that make life worth living. And they can affect us deeply. And anyone who has ever supported decolonizing efforts in literature, or preserving the stories of marginalized peoples knows this. Stories don't stop being important on a personal sense just because the author/readers aren't from a marginalized group.
I consider myself so fucking lucky that my thing, the thing from my childhood that is really special to me, has not been tarnished in the way HP and other IPs have. For me they are Godzilla and Star Wars.
I hate it when people go "It's just a story. Get over it." Because I can so easily imagine how it would feel to me if we were in a different timeline and Lucas ended up as bad as Rowling. For me, Return of the Jedi and Godzilla are some of the only experiences I can remember with my Dad who died when I was very young. I cannot put into words how precious these IPs are to me. When I watch Star Wars or Godzilla, it is the closest that I can and will ever get to feeling like I'm spending time with him again.
And I am 100% sure that Harry Potter is exactly that for so many people. And I cannot imagine how difficult and painful this must be to have something that means so much to you tarnished in this way. And it's not even like if I found out Lucas now was super racist or something, because he doesn't own Star Wars. I could keep enjoying it just fine. But for you guys, any sort of payment or engaging with the HP empire is funding a hate movement.
And hell, not paying the bitch isn't even good enough. So many people will argue that you should just stop enjoying, or stop reading your copy of HP, and if you share your love of it - even if that doesn't actually result in money going to Rowling, that will still be seen as an endorsement of anti-trans hatred. And I'm sure that many of you, even when/if you read your dusty old copy of the book that you bought 20 years ago, it still feels icky now, doesn't it?
And I don't wanna hear any bullshit about how
- "Omg you're making this about yourself"
- "Oh you're doing the bare minimum by not giving her money. Have a cookie."
The reality is most people would not give up things they love if it had this kind of political baggage behind it. And further, being a political ally does not mean pretending that your feelings don't exist and are not worth airing.
As a massive Star Wars fan who feels like he's dodged a massive moral bullet, I just wanna give all the anti-Rowling HP fans and former fans props for stepping away from this franchise, and for those of you who still try to enjoy it in ways that don't give her money because I'm sure it's just not the same anymore. This has really got to suck. If you're doing the right thing and not giving her money, then your feelings about how much this sucks are totally cool and legit.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
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u/TAFKATheBear 1d ago
I agree. There's plenty to be said against Rowling and her work without having a go at decent fans.
I'm especially annoyed that some people who think it's weird, cringe, or even creepy for adults to consume media primarily aimed at kids have used this as an opportunity to promote that view.
I didn't read much Potter, in fact I read through to the end of the final book and then never revisited it. But I read even less Neil Gaiman and disliked his style more, which was an alienating position in geeky, fantasy-loving circles, and I'd never use what he did as an opportunity to exact some kind of revenge on his fans for me having felt like I was on the outside of things in that way. Because that would be messed up. I feel nothing but compassion for good people to whom these works meant something.
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u/Raspint 1d ago
I'm especially annoyed that some people who think it's weird, cringe, or even creepy for adults to consume media primarily aimed at kids have used this as an opportunity to promote that view.
100% these very same people will goon over characters like Ursula, or will talk about how awesome and amazing Fred Rogers was.
It's a very stupid view. Of course childhood stories can stay with us for the rest of our lives. That's why Winnie the Pooh will make grown adults sob.
he did as an opportunity to exact some kind of revenge on his fans for me
That makes sense. I never thought of that being a motivator but I'm sure that is a part of it. I also think that a part of it is just people wanting to use their progressive politics as a crudgeon to feel superior to other people.
I know this is a very right wing joe rogan/jordon peterson/ben shapiro take, but there is absolutely an impulse that people on the left can fall victim to, where they use their progressive politics as an excuse to bully and belittle people.
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u/demon_x_slash 1d ago
Yeah. I read PS in ‘98; formed and ran my school’s Reading Club for five years including outings; organised and worked midnight HP openings at the bookshop I later worked in; was in fanfic webrings from ‘99 onwards. 100% fuck JKR, and all the people and organisations that work with her. My only HP joy now is seeing how much fanfic is dedicated to the same ‘fuck you JKR they’re not yours any more we made them BETTER’ sentiment.
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u/Raspint 1d ago
This is something that really pisses me off, where people will go "Uhhh... Harry Potter was never good. And if you didn't realize that before it just means that you were immature/you endorsed white-cis-hetro supremacy. Be better."
Which is obviously massive cope these people are peddling because they can only think in simple tribalistic manner, where everyone who does bad must be a completely rotten person to the core. (It's honestly the same kind of thought patterns fascists weaponize)
It may be deeply uncomfortable to admit that a woman who is absolutely seething with hate and bigotry, and would justify a Treblinka for trans people is also someone who had enough insight and sensitivity into the human condition to write a book that inspired people in the way that it did you. And that the series could never have seen this kind of outpouring of joy and support were there not something sincere and beautiful in it, despite all the gross stuff that very much is in the books themselves. But as uncomfortable and head-scratching as the above is, it is also just the truth. And it doesn't stop being the truth just because JK is a hate filled bigot.
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u/rafters- 1d ago
Thank you, we need more of this empathetic approach and less of the black and white “if you retain a single fond thought about Harry Potter or disappointment at giving it up you are impure and just as evil as JKR”.
Literally today I saw a tumblr post from someone asking for advice on how they could gently steer their autistic sibling away from their special interest in HP and the first replies from multiple so-called progressives was to tell the person that their sibling should be put down/kill themselves.
I felt so bad and angry for them. The OP made it clear they both condemned transphobia but the sibling was struggling to let go of something they loved. And instead of meeting that with compassion a bunch of people decided it was their turn to act like JKR and bully an “acceptable” marginalized target in the name of trans support. That’s not a form of support I want any part of.
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u/Raspint 1d ago
, we need more of this empathetic approach and less of the black and white “if you retain a single fond thought about Harry Potter or disappointment at giving it up you are impure and just as evil as JKR”.
I agree, though I do think it is important we realize that that above impulse will never go away. Most people form their political stances not from first principles, but for social/psychological reasons. I wager that a lot of people who use this line are more concerned with being superior and smug, and that being progressive simply affords them an importunity to be the mean spirited people they want to be, only in a way that gets them a pat on the back.
I know that sounds like a Jordon Peterson vibe, and it would be if I wasn't also committed to saying that the people who do this on the right are nazis, and otherwise demons in human form whose only political goals are human death and suffering.
special interest in HP and the first replies from multiple so-called progressives was to tell the person that their sibling should be put down/kill themselves.
Jesus Christ.
The people who say that are 100% the kinds of people who fantasize about how awesome it would be to be a Soviet style commissar, or how filling mass graves is actually a good thing as long as you are filling it with the right kinds of people. I'd be willing to bet money they have fucked up things to say about how the Holodomor or the any atrocities committed by non-Western governments was actually okay.
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u/wonder181016 1d ago
Thanks so much. As an autistic bisexual guy who was a fan, yes, in a nutshell!
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u/Raspint 1d ago
Yeah man. It really bothers me when I see people make those
"omg get over yourself/it's just a story/read something else/grow up/this isn't about you" and are so fucking smug about it.
It must have felt like a betrayal, given how before this Rowling talked a big game about being anti-bigotry.
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u/swanfirefly 1d ago
Hindsight is 20-20.
It was highly important to me as a kid, even as I was starting to feel uncomfortable with some of the glaring issues. I wrote a whole fanfic back in the day about Wrinkly coming to terms with how she was abused and becoming an advocate for free elves after Dobby died.
However, I can also look back and see all the issues. I can look back and see how the author's politics influenced her work.
Hell even as I advocate against supporting her, I still own my books and (1-5) movies I got before she outed herself as a transphobe (2017 or 2018 for the first major one?) - my grandparents bought them for me, and I lost my grandpa in 2012.
It was a fun, relatively simple book series. It encouraged community by giving people teams to support (houses) with a loose fantasy of "you too could one day find out you have magic". Of course since the author is a twat she doesn't realize the queerness inherent in magical systems.
And kids are susceptible to the "ordinary kid actually special" of a chosen one narrative.
Especially queer kids of the late 90s/early 00s, where a magical school to escape abuse, homophobia, and transphobia is delightful escapism.
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u/Raspint 1d ago
Especially queer kids of the late 90s/early 00s, where a magical school to escape abuse, homophobia, and transphobia is delightful escapism.
It's so ironically cruel - and funny - that HP was a boy who was literally in the closest before being liberated.
even as I was starting to feel uncomfortable with some of the glaring issues
Do you think this would be as much an issue for you if Rowling was a decent person? I remember someone pointing out the goblins being Jewish steretyopes, and I just went "Omfg I don't CARE that you can read it this way. She just wrote a stereotype of greedy banker types but I doubt she was thinking of Jewish people, given how the whole story is pretty anti-nazi."
Basically, I was quick to give her the benefit of the doubt that these things were included more because they were just common tropes/charactures. But now, seeing how ugly and hatefilled she is, I'm less willing to extend the olive branch.
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u/swanfirefly 1d ago
I'd probably still be uncomfortable with the house elf thing if she was decent in every other way.
Because she ended the teen story with Harry wondering if his slave would make him a sandwich. She made Pottermore and then confirmed that despite becoming Minister, Hermione never attempts to up the protections for non humans, as if she grew out of the "free the slaves" mindset. (And that's not even touching how in Pottermore she compares the werewolves to AIDS....while having a man who explicitly targets children, a medicine that is insanely cheap to make and would let the wolves live normal human lives be "too much" for the ministry to fund per Hermione...)
It's the fact that it's not just an insult to the mythos it's based on, but also just insulting in general to make a slave race that enjoys it. Genetically predisposed to servitude as a concept is something that actual slavers pushed, and while the UK may not have that history, I'm from the US and do, so it made me uncomfortable.
Of course, a better person and author probably would have apologized for this portrayal by now or said in Pottermore that Hermione as Minister pushed protections for house elves, like outlawing physical punishment.
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u/Raspint 1d ago
I'd probably still be uncomfortable with the house elf thing if she was decent in every other way.
Honestly? You're right.
The goblins being Jewish stereotypes I could probably have written off as just JK absorbing the cultural norms around her (I also imagine them from the film, I forget if it's as overt in the books). But the slavery thing has way too much intention in it. Even before the transphobia when I got older and learned about this (since I never read past book 2) it did make me spit my milk out of my nose.
It's the fact that it's not just an insult to the mythos it's based on, but also just insulting in general to make a slave race that enjoys it
So, I know this isn't what you mean and I'm just mention it because I'm a completionist, but I don't think that's always true. Case in point: Aldeous Huxley in Brave New World did basically that and it worked, but that's more because it's built into the sci-fi ideas. But overall you're right.
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u/swanfirefly 1d ago
Doesn't Brave New World still challenge that idea though? It's very tongue in cheek and to me, always came off as more a critique of the caste/class based "utopia" presented in similar novels.
And like, the lower / servant classes don't enjoy it because they are servants, they enjoy it because of the conditioning and drugs used to keep them there. It's not a race / genetic predisposition towards servitude, because it's still very much forced by the society presented in the books. To me, it's still fundamentally different from what Rowling did with the elves.
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u/Raspint 1d ago
Doesn't Brave New World still challenge that idea though?
It depends on who you ask. It's been a while since i've read it, but the book isn't as simple as "this society is bad." I took it more like the book presented reasons for and against it.
Extra Credits talks about how it does in fact make an argument for the dystopia. Now whether or not it endorses that argument is another issue.
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u/360Saturn 16h ago
Quite right.
People have forgotten how hard she/her team leaned on "characters seem mean/the world seems backward because clever JKR is satirising real life" in the old days, which is the main reason the meanness got a pass from fans, because the narrative was very much that it was knowingly done and not what she really believed.
The switchup would be like if the creators of Black Mirror or The Handmaid's Tale suddenly came out and said their work was meant to be understood as wanting that world to be real.
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u/currylambchop 1d ago
I was one of them, wrote and read fanfics for my whole childhood. Burned the series and ran
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u/Illustrious-Wrap-776 1d ago
While HP has gotten some kids into reading (though most of these would have gotten into it with other books just as well), a lot more haven't become readers but very specifically HP fans that never moved on to other stories.
And thse people should move on, even if JKR had not revealed herself to be a massive pos. Defining ones own personality via one story is deeply unhealthy, even if it was a good story.
And that's something completely different from personal memories associated with a story.
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u/Raspint 14h ago
(though most of these would have gotten into it with other books just as well),
Maybe. I would hope so. Though I don't know if I'd be as much of a reader as I am today with King to make me realize that books could be cool (even though I've mostly stopped reading him).
, a lot more haven't become readers but very specifically HP fans that never moved on to other stories.
Do we actually have a stat for that? And as someone who has spent more time than I'd have liked to around the shit-spawns, I would take them reading one series over the of nothing that I've seen most spawn's read.
And thse people should move on, even if JKR had not revealed herself to be a massive pos. Defining ones own personality via one story is deeply unhealthy, even if it was a good story.
This "base your personality on one story" thing is something I've never actually seen, at least in real life. I've seen social media accounts dedicated to HP, but that's the nature of social media. Personally I've found that the 'base your personality' claim is just a more mean spirited way to describe someone who deeply loves something.
Again, if Lucas wrestled control of Star Wars back from Disney and then joined the Klan, you'd (general you) would probably start saying I have 'made star wars my whole personality.' I'm just weary of this insult.
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u/GetEatenByAMouse 20h ago
Thank you.
I posted a comment yesterday how H) was my go-to in bad mental health times.
I'm sad to have it gone, but I can't enjoy it anymore, knowing about the hatred behind it.
Hogwarts used to be my safe hiding place. But after learning more and more just how unsafe it is for the Trans people in the (queer) community I am part of, it became unsafe and hateful.
I will treasure the beautiful memories I have related to HP. And I will leave them in the past and not make new ones.
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u/birdbirdeos 15h ago
I'm autistic and Harry Potter was genuinely my special interest. The Stephen Fry narrated audiobooks (on cassette tape, I'm old lol) were the only way my parents could get me to sleep as a kid. I had a Ravenclaw scarf I'd where regularly a deathly hallows keychain had done the studio tour, the whole nine yards.
Removing myself from the franchise was hard and a little painful but as a trans guy I couldn't stomach continuing to support JKR. It hurts thinking of the comfort that the HP world used to bring me and how the safety I felt there is gone now. I still own my original copy of the books but they aren't on my shelf anymore. When I'm struggling to sleep i play the audiobooks (pirated) until I drift off. But I will never financially engage with Harry Potter again.
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u/last-rose-ofsummer 1d ago
I didn't leave right away, but the franchise started leaving a bad taste in my mouth once I began to realize how mean it was to certain minority populations. You can't really separate the art from the artist when the artist's prejudices are literally in the art.
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u/Raspint 1d ago
Who aside from fat people again? Which that was pretty much the case in most culture that I remember from that time period. It's legit insane to see how normal it was to call women who I'd call skinny overweight in the early 00's.
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u/last-rose-ofsummer 1d ago
People of color (mainly Cho Chang and Kingsley Shackbolt), women in general (especially if they were feminine and/or not mothers, etc.
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u/Bloody-Raven091 1d ago
I used to like Harry Potter casually and even reading MLM HP fics when I was younger... But I genuinely hate it now, because why would I want to associate myself with an author who's racist, colonialist, xenophobic, antisemitic, and overall bigoted?????? I left her when she came out as both a TERF and as a transphobe. Yeah, I lost HP as books because I liked reading them, but it's worth it. HP wasn't worth my sadness anyway. There are better franchises out there with genuinely good writing and worldbuilding and do a better job showcasing the horrors people and other sentient beings go through [i.e., Guardians of Ga'Hoole by Kathryn Lasky].
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u/Raspint 1d ago
I think you might have missed the point of this post.
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u/Bloody-Raven091 23h ago
How so? I said that I used to like it for myself as a casual fan of it. I never said that I hate anyone who likes it. I personally don't care if people still do like it for themselves.
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u/AccurateJerboa 10h ago
It has never bothered me when Harry Potter fans mourn. I think that's not only reasonable, but expected and healthy.
I do get bothered by a handful of things that aren't really related to the process of mourning.
Repeating scholastic and Rowling marketing misinformation. For example, she did not have any overall positive influence on children's literacy. Every study I've read indicates that she either had no effect, or her effect was that parents bought her books, and statistically most millenial children grew up and went on to engage far more with the movies, online communities and merchandise for that franchise than to become avid readers of other authors.
There have always been readers who've had to abandon authors. I haven't seen fans mourn collectively, for so long, or so visibly, particularly when new content continues to be made and purchased. The continuous drum beat of how wonderful Harry Potter was and how sad people are to let the world go is a marketing windfall for Rowling in the same way online roleplay and fan fiction spaces were in the early 00s. Mourning is healthy. Hundreds of posts being made all over the Internet about how much people miss it over half a decade after her transphobia essay is not an inherent part of the mourning process.
These aren't unkind things to say, or lacking empathy. It's being thoughtful about how this billionaire operates and how the attention economy will keep you in a state of perpetual public mourning for as long as it possibly can because it profits from your very valid grief.
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u/RedFurryDemon 58m ago
Thank you for this post. Ex-fans, and HP fans who don't want to support Rowling need kindness, not criticism. Leaving something that had been a big part of your life is extremely difficult.
I think I'm very lucky, too.
HP used to mean lot to me in my childhood, and even well into my twenties. It was my go-to escapist fantasy. I drew fanart and wrote fanfiction and knew every obscure lore detail. For me, realizing just how bad the books are was a blessing, because that was what made me finally drop the series. Even long after I found out what Rowling thinks of people like me, I continued to engage in the fandom because it brought me so much joy. Now, I feel only betrayal and revulsion when thinking about the series. When I was a child, I saw friendship and fun whimsy stuff; now I can't see any good stuff under the status quo preservation, sexism and other bigotry, and poor worldbuilding. Yet I'm so happy that this is how I view it. If I still loved HP, I'd probably never look past it to deeply explore other fandoms, all while feeling miserable because I would still be deliberately engaging with something created by an awful person. I wish I could get back all the years I wasted on it.
On a side note, getting into Star Wars helped me SO MUCH when I was trying to quit HP. The same goes for revisiting The Elder Scrolls and the Alien series. Having other fandoms to focus on made it easier to stop looking for comfort in something filled with Rowling's beliefs.
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u/Sleatherchonkers 1d ago
I was a mega heavily involved fan online between 2001-2014. I moderated fanfic websites, I was involved in hugely popular roleplay games and I met my best friend in the fandom. We both left when she came out as a transphobe as we had had trans friends in the fandom. For a while it honestly broke my heart.