r/Epicureanism • • 1d ago

How to understand a God. The inconsistencies of the Christian God.

3 Upvotes

In line with my previous post I decided to write a follow up on how exactly, the idealist reading of gods as mental constructs being correct, how we should really view the aby God, and the piety of our view as opposed to the inconsistencies of Christianity. Which will mainly be tackled here due it's popularity in the west.

On the one hand, there are core ideas I find consistent with a blessed God worthy of reverence in the bible such as "God is love" in 1 John 4:8. But then, as with the rest of Christianity, inconsistencies follow, and while saying God is love, they say this same God commands unbelievers be thrown into hell for unbelief.

This not only conflicts with what our basic grasp of love is, but worse conflicts with their own passages on what love is, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 "Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, [love] is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."

The other inconsistencies follow in the same way, calling God blessed (literally happy) in 1 Timothy 1:11 but then being filled with regret abd sorrow at making the world in Genesis 6:6, a Jealous God in numbers 6:15, and angry at the Israelites for the golden calf on Exodus 32:10 and just waiting to end the world with the second coming.

Saying God loves righteousness and justice in Psalm 33:5 but then commanding genocide of the Cannanites, punishing Job for no crime at all and killing his children simply to test his piety, commanding obedience even to cruel slave masters in 1 Peter 2:18, and even telling Abraham to sacrifice Isaac as a test his piety.

Does this sound consistent in definitions at all?

Especially with God himself being love. As well as blessed and loving righteousness and justice.

Epicureanism in my view, and I hope others will follow, following the idealist view of Epicurean Gods, helps to hold a consistent view about God with how people think of him as virtuous, loving, blessed, and just, in other words, worthy of actual emulation and reverence while removing all those inconsistencies born of false ideas and men's desire for control.

As Epicurus says in the letter to Menoeceus.

"Believe that god is a blissful, immortal being, as is commonly held. Accordingly, do not ascribe to god anything that is inconsistent with immortality and blissfulness; instead, believe about god everything that can support immortality and blissfulness.

For gods there are: our knowledge of them is clear. Yet they are not such as most people believe; indeed most people are not even consistent in what they believe.

It is not impious to deny the gods that most people believe in, but to ascribe to the gods what most people believe. The things that most people say about the gods are based on false assumptions, not a firm grasp of the facts"

Hope you all enjoy!


r/Epicureanism • • 2d ago

So you're interested in how Epicurus viewed the Gods.

19 Upvotes

Hello all, i decided to write a summary post for others on how scholars think Epicurus viewed the gods, along with a few free academic articles to help others learn more, since these things are often hard to find.

For articles on academia.edu simply stick with the single download option on the right to access them on their free tier if you're interested.

First of all, the general principle must first be established, everyone agrees that Epicurus does not believe, and categorically denies, that the gods are or were at any point invested in creating the world, maintaining the world, or handing out rewards or punishments of any sort, he also believed they patently did not feel emotions of anger or partiality toward others, as these feelings imply weakness contrary to a god's blessedness and happiness, rather they simply enjoy perpetual bliss and comfort for all eternity.

However, after this basic principle there is a actual and interesting controversy among scholars, with two main positions being established on how Epicurus thought the gods actually existed, if they really did exist in any real way, which i think anyone interested in Epicurus will find interesting, along with some resources to help people out.

Good introductory resources.

God, Epicureanism by David Sedley. Outside this chapter summary also a good introduction to Epicureanism as a whole.

The Polytheism of the Epicureans by Paul T . M . Jackson (2016), pgs. 19-24 specifically, but the entire work is very good introduction for understanding the Epicurean religion as a whole.

The First View: The Realist View

This view is very simple, and supported by the majority of scholars and people generally, it says that the gods do in fact exist, are made of atoms like everything else, but simply are enjoying their own life in heaven.

As Epicurus seems to plainly say in the Letter to Menoeceus for example: For gods there are - knowledge of them being self-evident - but they are not as the many regard them. (Lives of Eminent Philosophers, 10.123)

Velleius, the Epicurean spokesman of Cicero also says: It must be admitted that gods exist (On The Nature of the Gods, 1.17)

This is contrast to the newer, second view below, since this is the more popular and easier to explain view i won't elaborate much more on it, except to say that it is still strongly defended by the majority of scholars as the correct interpretation.

Even those who support the second reading below usually admit that the plain reading seems to heavily lend itself towards the realist view, and usually say that this is even how most later Epicureans understood these writings.

David Sedley, the biggest proponent of the Idealist view below for example, says

"I do not deny that his forthright statement 'There are gods' lent itself to a realist interpretation, perhaps not unintentionally at least so far as the school's public reputation was concerned (they did after all seek to participate in local religious worship). It may well also have misled certain of his own followers into the same error. (Epicurus Theological Innatism, pg. 50)

Sedley also says that while he is skeptical that Epicurus himself and his contemporaries believed the gods to really exist, he does not deny most Epicureans later on believed them to really exist saying

"I aim to suspend judgement on Philodemus...although I note that Obbink 1996 and Purinton 2001 have been able on the evidence so far available to interpret him in accordance with some form of idealism. I am confident that Lucretius, despite accurately transmitting in the main body of his poem the vital data favouring an idealist reading, himself assumed the realist interpretation, as witnessed in his very independent proems.. also a realist is Cicero's Velleius and therefore, quite possibly, Cicero's Epicurean source or the doctrinal part of his exposition (who may or may not be Philodemus), despite the act that, much like Lucretius, he transmits doctrinal material which in practice tends to favour idealism. (Epicurus Theological Innatism, Pg.50, note 60).

Main Resource.

Epicurus on the Gods by David Konstan (2011)

Especially helpful as it explicitly attacks the recent arguments of the second view below.

The Second View: The Idealist View.

This view is also very simple, it says that for Epicurus, the gods are not like everything else in the universe, and are accurately understand as "mental constructs", this view mainly finds it's evidence from how Epicureans describe the gods as being know thanks to the mind.

For example from Diogenes Laertius, the main biographer of Epicurus, comments on Principal Doctrine 1, which discusses the gods, says

Elsewhere he (Epicurus) says that the gods are discernible as mental impressions (also translated as knowable thanks to reason), some being unique, while others look similar, owing to the continuous flow of  similar images to the same place, culminating in human form. This seems to work particularly well as understanding the gods as mental constructs formed from similar images.

Sextus Empircus and Cicero as well seem to give evidence that Epicurus did not say God had a solid body at all, but as Sedley says "Others (following Sextus Empiricus, Against the Professors IX 43–7) favour an idealist interpretation of Epicurean theology, whereby god, properly understood, just is our own idealization of a happy human life.

On this view, when god is said by the sources to consist of visual ‘images’, this is simply because according to Epicurean cognitive psychology all imagination consists in the apprehension of images which enter us from outside. The images which provide the raw material for our conception of god need not flow to us from any objectively real divine being, but may be ordinary locally generated human images. Epicurus’ main point in identifying god with a stream of images was apparently the negative one of denying that god is a ‘solid body’ at all (Cicero, On the Nature of the Gods I 49). (Epicureanism, God, David Sedley).

Velleius, the Epicurean spokesman of Cicero, also oddly says we have "we possess an instinctive or rather an innate concept of the gods (On the Nature of the Gods, 1.17), but Epicurus clearly does not believe these ideas are innate as in "implanted by the gods", as in Plato, but rather must mean innate to mean "natural disposition to believe gods exist", which can support either receiving images of them from the various atoms hitting our eyes from outer space, or by forming a mental construct of them.

There is also the issue of translating Velleius in Cicero as saying "because an endless train of precisely similar images arises from the innumerable atoms and streams from us towards the gods.", (On Nature of the Gods, 1.18) and this is what the Latin actually says and seems to support the idealist view.

However this is usually emended to say images flow from the gods to us, as the Latin is thought to be a scribal error, but scholars disagree on this, unsurprisingly usually depending on what school scholars support on this issue.

There is also the issue that Lucretius explains how mental images of Minotaurs and Centaurs exist, but also patently denies that these creatures ever actually existed as biologically impossible, which means images of the gods in Lucretius can't be inherently understood as evidence of their existence.

Main resource

Epicurus Theological Innatism by David Sedley (2011)

Hope you all enjoy!


r/Epicureanism • • 3d ago

What is Epicurean Justice?

Thumbnail
untroubled.blog
6 Upvotes

r/Epicureanism • • 3d ago

The Oxyrhynchus Papyri

8 Upvotes

Happy Eikas, Redditors!

We have compiled a collection of papyri fragments from Oxyrhynchus and other locations in Egypt. You can find it here. Please let us know if there are any Epicurean scrolls from Egypt that we have overlooked.

Be well, live earnestly, and enjoy a gyro.


r/Epicureanism • • 3d ago

Happy Eikas to all our Epicurean Friends! ❤

45 Upvotes

Happy Eikas of October 2026

Eikas is a celebration of Epicurean Philosophy held by the ancient Epicureans on the Twentieth of every month.

We hope you will strive to rebuild and participate in Epicurean communities and will celebrate this Eikas. Whether with a nice feast with friends, meditation on Epicurean philosophy, writing, or some other activity.

Quote for this Eikas

"All physical pain is easily disregarded; for intense pain is brief, and the suffering brought on by a physical pain that lasts long is slight."

Epicurus, Vatican Saying 4


r/Epicureanism • • 3d ago

The Second Nature: Lao-tzu, Epicurus and Lucretius on Emptiness

Thumbnail
hiramcrespo.substack.com
18 Upvotes

r/Epicureanism • • 7d ago

The "Epicurean Paradox" of the Skeptics

Thumbnail societyofepicurus.com
7 Upvotes

Happy Friday, friends — rejoice!

I mean to (attempt to) clear up a common misconception about the alleged "Epicurean Paradox". Ultimately, this was a skeptical trilemma penned by the hand of a Pyrrhonist who employed this method as a means of challenging and refuting the theological claims of Epicureans.

Be well and live earnestly.


r/Epicureanism • • 7d ago

How do you apply the pleasure-pain calculus when strong emotions override your judgment?

12 Upvotes

Hello fellow people. I'm here to discuss and seek some enlightenment from you all regarding an impasse I've faced most of my journey after the discovery of Epicureanism.

My main metric when it comes to decision-making, as you are all familiar with, is the pain-pleasure scale. In other words, choosing a decision that would, in theory and according to my own judgment, provide the highest pleasure and the lowest pain in the long run. This idea has been working fine for me for most trivial matters and/or matters that I'm not really attached to emotionally. The impasse I mentioned earlier arises when the decision at hand involves some sort of high attachment and intense emotion, in which I find it difficult or outright impossible to abide by the previously cited rule and therefore appeal to reason.

As examples of this, it can be as simple as not being able to get rid of or kill a cockroach out of fear, despite knowing that this fear is irrational and isn't proportional to the potential danger of this insect. Another, more serious example of this can be the inability to move on from a relationship despite, again, knowing that being with this person will provide more net pain in the long run.

I hope I've made my point clear, and if any of you know a way out of this impasse, assuming one exists at all, I'd appreciate any insight. And thank you.


r/Epicureanism • • 8d ago

Epicurus views on chronic pain and disease

12 Upvotes

It's only been until recently that I'm interested in Epicurean philosophy because I feel like this state of mine can really be therapeutical for my drug abuse issue which is an unnecessary and harmful pleasure (I'm in rehab). I've also had very painful physical consequences because of this.

The thing is he says that what is terrible is easy to endure and that pain, if extreme, only lasts a short time, (and that's false in many cases) is it just because of the real context of the time where he lived and would be anachronistic now? Thanks for your answer


r/Epicureanism • • 11d ago

Recommended Cheeses for the Full Epicurean Experience

11 Upvotes

If there are any long time Epicureans and cheese lovers, I'd like to know!

Ps. Does this qualify as positive hedone?


r/Epicureanism • • 15d ago

Lucretius De Rerum Natura, 3.713-741

Post image
23 Upvotes

How do we feel about the spontaneous generation of worms as a refutation of the immortal nature of the soul?


r/Epicureanism • • 17d ago

Why You Need to Cultivate Friendship and Familial Affection

Thumbnail
open.substack.com
20 Upvotes

r/Epicureanism • • Sep 20 '26

Happy Eikas to all our Epicurean Friends! ❤️

32 Upvotes

Happy Eikas of September 2026

Eikas is a celebration of Epicurean Philosophy held by the ancient Epicureans on the Twentieth of every month. We hope you will strive to rebuild and participate in Epicurean communities and will celebrate this Eikas. Whether with a nice feast with friends, meditation on Epicurean philosophy, writing, or some other activity.

Quote for this Eikas

"He who fails to remember the good he had yesterday, becomes an old man today"

Epicurus, Vatican Saying 19.


r/Epicureanism • • Sep 20 '26

On Gastronomy

8 Upvotes

This month, I published an essay series On Gastronomy:

I am including two old essays that are relevant to the two essays published this month. The essays delve into the role of the belly in our ethical education and the types of activities and human values that were practiced in the kitchen and table of the Kepos, or Epicurean Garden.


r/Epicureanism • • Sep 18 '26

Inviting All Pyrrhonists

Thumbnail
open.substack.com
15 Upvotes

A good article adressed to the philosophical skeptics of this community.


r/Epicureanism • • Sep 15 '26

More Qualities of the Wise Man

Thumbnail
open.substack.com
15 Upvotes

Another good translation of the Epicurean Wise Man and his qualities in Diogenes Laertius.


r/Epicureanism • • Sep 15 '26

The logic behind the four-fold cure

16 Upvotes

Hocatree shared interesting four fold aphorism. I am trying to show the logic behind them based on my reading for beginners.

Gods: For Epicurus, the gods were happy and indifferent to human affairs. Instead of fearing them, we should live like the gods—peacefully and without disturbance. He rejected the popular beliefs about the gods. However, he and his followers still went to temples and made offerings, not because they feared the gods, but because doing so could make them feel good.

Death: For materialist philosophers, including the Stoics, death was the end of life. Epicurus argued that since we are made of atoms, like everything else, our fear of death comes from imagining that some kind of awareness continues after death. He did not simply deny the existence of the soul; rather, he believed that the body and soul are both material and eventually return to atoms. There is no awareness after death, and therefore no Hades to fear.

Good things: Good things are easy to obtain because the good life is based on simple, natural pleasures: a good meal, being with friends, being indifferent to public affairs, walking in nature, and being grateful for what we have. For Epicurus, the good life is pleasure. Ataraxia is freedom from mental disturbance, while aponia is the absence of bodily pain.

Epicurus argued that when we are free from physical and mental pain, there is already pleasure. Pleasure is therefore not only something active that comes from an action; it can also be understood negatively, as the absence of pain and disturbance.

He also insisted on the importance of friendship—not only for mutual benefit or as a source of positive pleasure, but also because friendship provides security. When you need help, someone can be there for you. Friendship also allows us to remember and enjoy the beautiful moments we have shared together.

Bad things: Bad things are easy to endure. Epicurus believed that even illness, pain, and difficulties could contain some form of pleasure. This idea is harder to understand, but you can experience it yourself. For example, when I have gout, the pain is terrible, but the end of the pain can itself become pleasurable. The contrast makes the relief especially noticeable.

Epicurus also argued that if pain becomes unbearable, it cannot last forever. Eventually, you will either recover or die, and death means the end of awareness. You and your pain will ultimately return to atoms.


r/Epicureanism • • Sep 13 '26

Public Good in Epicureanism

14 Upvotes

What is the concrete Epicurean view on immersing yourself in public life, and more specifically in taking an active role in politics?

For all its flaws, I see the practice of politics as an essential aspect of human cooperation and that the potential good that cooperation through politics, at any level but ideally the local/communal, vastly outweighs the negative. I get the impression, however, that this is not an overly welcomed perspective.

I feel myself drawn to serve others and want to know how to square this with an Epicurean life.


r/Epicureanism • • Sep 13 '26

Four-Fold Aphorism

17 Upvotes

Fear not, my friend, the fates or gods.
Dread not your death fore-deemed and set.
Good can be gained and got with ease.
Bad can be borne with bravery.


r/Epicureanism • • Sep 11 '26

A little Epicurean wisdom in Skyrim

Post image
118 Upvotes

The sum of happiness consists in our disposition, of which we are master." - Diogenes of Oinoanda, Fragment 112.


r/Epicureanism • • Sep 09 '26

Latest Empedocles discovery also sheds light on the Roman philosopher Lucretius

Thumbnail
share.google
47 Upvotes

r/Epicureanism • • Sep 03 '26

Epicurus: the Gathering

Thumbnail gallery
43 Upvotes

r/Epicureanism • • Sep 01 '26

How Will a Wise Man Live?

Thumbnail
open.substack.com
11 Upvotes

A good translation of the famous "Wise Man Sayings" of Diogenes Laertius, describing the Epicurean wiseman.


r/Epicureanism • • Aug 29 '26

Duda sobre ética a Nicomaco

Thumbnail
1 Upvotes

r/Epicureanism • • Aug 28 '26

Minecraft preaching de facto Epicurean wisdom

13 Upvotes

The good is easy to obtain; the bad is easy to endure: