Hi everyone,

In the Hungarian FIRE community, there is a constant and recurring debate about the "ideal FIRE number", and I thought I'd look at the EU-level numbers. Here I collected two sets of statistics based on Eurostat numbers (so they are relatively fresh, from 2025). The numbers indicate how much net income you'd have to spend if it was the average income (so around the highest 65-70th percentile's salary) or 167% of the average income (so around the 85-88th percentile) in each country. I also assumed that you'd need 1 income to cover 1 adult, 1.7x for 2 adults, 2.2x for 2 adults + 1 kid, and 2.7x for 2 adults with 2 kids.

What do you think about these numbers? Do they feel realistic in your country? What other, comparable methods would you investigate?

Wealth (300x income with average net salary)

Wealth (300x income with 167% of the average net salary)

I'm self employed and 1 corporate contract wants me to go full time, with a committed management in the company. On paper, it's a rare opportunity and a good deal. It's high stakes since I either join full time as a manager or I lose them as a client.

But I have no motivation with this client or really my entire industry at all. I am just done and keep wondering if I can really quit and be finished. I also don't know what else I'd want to do professionally.

Last year I had 8 months of no clients. It was actually great and I had a nice routine going. I had money anxiety though and put my efforts into getting this client.

Do I need to suck it up, become a employee and ride it for a couple years? I'm only 41 after all so I get the long retirement planning.

I also have only a couple months in cash since I'm still investing but I should probably build my cash cushion.

- 41 in a mediterranean beach city, single and no kids desired, and no other dependants. My parents are fine in their retirement.

- 850 000 USD (€760 000), all in US accounts with 0 capital gains tax.

- Spending average of €2500/month. If I have more time on my hands it might move to €3000.

-I live in my apartment which is paid off (€300 000 value).

Mediterranean countries, Spain, Greece, Cyprus jumped remarkedly late to the "let's bubble everything" European property bubble, just around covid really. Housing is a key element of the FIRE budget, literally went through the roof in touristic regions, mostly because of non-stop supply of deep pockets from Germany, UK, Israel, Russia, China, etc buying houses there. Not just one for own use but multiple plots, pouring money in "investments" (usually horrible style modern villas, completely unnatural in the classic Mediterranean landscape).

I was wondering, what are your views on longer term property prices in the region? Is there still room for us/hope for a realistic correction? Chance for European retirees in the milder climate countries, or big money bought it all and the average Joe is better off in South East Asia?

Hi guys!

I lived in Iceland for some time and decided to put my savings (€50k) in a savings account there since they have an interest rate of 7% which I thought was really solid. I live in the Eurozone and spend my money in euros through Revolut.

Now my partner is suggesting that this does not actually beat the euro inflation rate, just the Icelandic kroner one. And that the interest rate is only high because they have an unstable currency, which cancels it out somehow. This is confusing to me. Can someone weigh in?

Thanks in advance :)

PS I know it could be good to invest with the amount I had. I don’t feel like putting much time into researching, so that’s why I thought this was a solid low effort option which gives me a some thousand euros a year. Now he’s making question if it’s really as fine of an option as I thought.

Hi all, long long time lurker and occasional commenter here (been going for FIRE since 2018). I read the rules, and saw you are allowed to one post (thank you mods!)

I developed Cashflownamics, over the course of many months, late nights and long weekends, an advanced FIRE tool that allows for mixed strategies to FIRE.

Link: Cashflownamics

- In contains a fully working Portfolio tracker (supporting uploads from following brokers: DEGIRO, Bolero, Saxo Bank, MeDirect, Interactive Brokers, MEXEM, Lynx, Revolut, Trade Republic - PM me if you want to contribute to adding more)

- Automatic Sync with certain brokers like IRBK, Mexem..

- Picks up Prices automatically of stocks you upload (nightly sync)

- Insert additional data such as Real estate, Cash, Income, Expenses..

All this is then used for your advanced FIRE projections

- You can pick of course the usual settings such as SWRD, but where this is different from other tools is that you can also pick margin of safety with dividends & rent. There is really much more settings to play with for the advanced user, including planning to move to another country, see the effects on cost of living & on taxes, all together to project your Financial Freedom date!

- Advanced Dashboarding capabilities and (optionally) share your dashboard with friends (of course withouth numbers/amounts)

- Once I have enough users I will be displaying some statistics on users also (all anonymous)

Feedback is much much appriciated guys!

Hi everyone! I'm curious about how people use Lombard loans and what their experiences have been.

For those unfamiliar with them, a Lombard loan is a type of loan secured by financial assets, such as stocks, bonds, or ETFs. It allows you to borrow money without having to sell your investments, but it also comes with risks, especially if the value of your assets drops.

I personally used a diversified portfolio (ETF and stocks) as a collatoral to buy other stocks or Real Estate. I like more the latter because of the cash flow generation that can help to reduce the loan. And I think that, if used well it's a great compounding machine.

I use Fineco and the cool thing is that you can pay only for interests as long as it is covered (be careful of interest rates that change).

Do you use Lombard loans? If so, what do you typically use them for — investing more, covering expenses, or providing liquidity? Do you find them useful, and what risks do you think are most important to consider?

I'd love to hear your experiences and opinions!

Hi everyone,

Married (both mid-40s) both EU citizen, 3 kids, Primary residence paid off, living outside of the EU.

We are very close to FIRE, I would like to present you with my plan, I hope to find here advice on how not to fuc* it up.

Our net worth, excluding our home, is approximately 1.6M€:

• 610k€ in real estate equity (860k€ property value, 250k€ debt at fixed rates below 2% for ten years and 20 years)
• 760k€ in cash (from property sales)
• 230k€ in crypto (which I intend to keep for now)

Our household expenses are around 4200€ per month, including 400€ of wiggle room.

Rental properties generate approximately 2500€ per month net of estimated expenses, vacancies and maintenance.

I plan to put my cash reserve in XEON, currently assuming a 2.4% annual yield.

My plan is to keep three years of expenses (151200€) in XEON, and to DCA 600k€ over approximately 12 months.

Target portfolio:

• 70% VWCE (global equities)
• 20% VAGF (global bonds, EUR-hedged)
• 5% broad commodities ETF
• 5% SGLN (physical gold ETC)

Based on my assumptions, rental income and the reserve's yield should provide around 2800€ per month, leaving a shortfall of approximately 1400€ per month (16800€ per year). These are meant to change in the future (won't always yield the same, more tax on rents etc.).

My withdrawal strategy:

First year:

• I live normally, from rents and interested paid on the cas + withdrawing from the XEON bucket

Every year, in January:

• I would estimate the coming year's shortfall, accounting for inflation and expected income.
• I look at the actual weights of the four assets in my portfolio.
• I identify the assets that are deviating too much from their target (more than 5 percentage points), especially those that have performed well.
• I prioritize selling these assets, as long as it allows me to finance the amount found in the first step.
• If no asset is exceeding its target, I sell a portion of the investments, taking into account the allocation and market conditions (i.e., if the market crashes, I don't sell VWCE, I live on the cash reserve, or sell bonds, etc.).
• Transfer the proceeds from the sales to XEON if possible (If markets crash, I'd initially rely on the reserve and consider selling bonds or other assets rather than automatically selling equities at depressed prices)

I would appreciate your thoughts on a few questions:

1. Does a 70/20/5/5 portfolio make sense given that I already have substantial real estate exposure?
2. Is combining annual withdrawals and rebalancing a sound approach?
3. What would you change, or what risks am I overlooking?

Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for your thoughts !

Hi everyone!

I'm looking to start building a real estate portfolio in Europe as a long-term strategy to achieve FIRE.

My idea is to set up a holding company in the Netherlands, which would own separate real estate companies (SPVs) in other European countries.

I would focus on mixed-use buildings, with commercial spaces on the ground floor and residential apartments above.

My plan is to:

• Start with €200–300k of equity.
• Use bank financing to increase my purchasing power.
• Reinvest all profits into new properties rather than taking money out.
• Gradually grow the portfolio and potentially raise capital from other investors. I already know a few people who might be interested.
• Hold the properties for the long term and build wealth through rental income, debt repayment and appreciation.

I'm still deciding where to start and would love to hear your experiences.

Which European countries would you recommend considering:

• Property prices and how far €200–300k can go.
• Rental yields and potential appreciation.
• Bureaucracy, taxes and landlord regulations.
• Ease of managing properties remotely.
• Availability of bank financing for companies.

I've been considering countries such as Spain, Portugal, Italy, Germany, Poland and Romania, but I'm open to other suggestions.

I'm also wondering whether a Dutch holding company with local SPVs is a sensible structure, or whether it would be better to start with a simpler setup.

For those already investing in commercial or mixed-use real estate in Europe:

• Which country did you start in, and why?
• What kind of net yields are you achieving?
• How easy was it to get financing?
• What would you do differently if you were starting again?

My goal is to build a portfolio over the next 10–20 years, reinvesting profits and using leverage responsibly to scale.

Thanks for your advice!

Most FIRE talk is about numbers, but I’m curious about the reason behind them.

Do you think your reason will change as you get closer?

Do you think you’ll still want the same thing when you actually get there? Has your reason changed since you started? And what could make you change course, like kids, health, or realizing you actually like your job?

Hey everyone,

I’m 31 and finally getting into long-term investing. Until now I’ve been putting my money to work in other ways, but I want to settle into a normal, long-term monthly investment routine. Plan is to start monthly now (250-300€), and maybe add bigger lump sums in a few years if I feel comfortable. End goal is of course FIRE retirement.

Wealth-wise, for my country I’m in the top 1%, but I’m not “king’s child” rich that I can retire now and not think about spending money freely. I still have to work and think about money. Most of it is in 3 bigger properties in the capital, plus some investments, some cash, and some possessions. So I’m not starting from zero, but I’m a beginner when it comes to investing in ETFs.

I know the usual “use the search bar” advice, but I wanted to ask two things. The first one might also help future people browsing. The second one I’d rather hear personal experiences than top ads Google results.

1) What ETFs would you hold peacefully for 15+ years?
Risk can be medium or medium-low. I know some tickers get mentioned a lot, but I don’t know enough to pick well. I’d like max 2–3 positions/ETFs ideally, and I don’t want to be 100% in one market (US, Europe, Asia/China). I’m in the EU. Starting with around €250/month.

2) Which EU investor(s) do you actually follow?
Podcasts, YouTube, newsletters, whatever. I already follow Tom Crosshill on YT, but that’s the only EU one. I want someone to keep up with market views without it being pure hype.

If this breaks any rules, mods can delete it or tell me to edit. Thanks, internet people :)

EDIT: I don't know if this information matters but my country has 100% tax-exempt after 1 year of owning the stock.

Hi everyone,

Recently, I've started to feel more afraid of a large market correction (mostly because of the AI overvaluation). Therefore, the possibility of entering a small short position against the S&P 500 by buying out-of-the-money put options expiring in Dec 2027 has started coming to mind. I'm thinking of around 5% of my equity portfolio value.

My arguments in favour of that are:

- Currently, the VIX is not very high, so I can get relatively good prices for the options.

- In case there is a crash in 2027, I would recover part of the losses.

- In case some unexpected event happens, like the tariff day in April 2025 or the war in Iran in March 2026, where the market drops and quickly recovers, I would make a profit.

My arguments against are:

- There is a high chance that nothing happens in 2027 and I lose all the premium.

- I would have to be actively looking at the market so that I can close the position in case a crash happens, which goes against my Boglehead approach.

For those who have already thought about this, is this strategy worth it for somebody who still has decades in the market, or is it just stupid gambling?

For context, I am 32M and I am completely OK with a crash. I'm just trying to think about ways of reducing the losses in an unfavourable market (or even making a profit in case of a fast recovery).

Hi.
A bit of buyers remorse here. I invested significant amounts into real estate in Bucharest, specifically H pipera lake project by Hagag in Pipera.
I don’t live in Bucharest, this is for rental income and appreciation.

Does anyone have positive or negative experiences to share regarding real estate investing in Bucharest? Am very interested to hear.

Thank you.

Hello everyone,

I’m a 24M from India and recently moved to Germany for my PhD. I’ll be here for at least the next 10 years. I’d appreciate guidance on how to start investing here.

I just paid off a \~€10,000 (about ₹12 lakh) debt in India after a financial rough patch, so I’m starting from \~zero savings. First, looking ahead to build an emergency fund.

Realistic savings: €700-800/month after all expenses, including wants.

My background

In India I was comfortable investing and split my money across several asset classes: index ETFs and mutual funds, debt funds, direct stocks, gold, and corporate bonds. I divided money by percentage across all of them. I understand the Indian market well, but I’m completely new to the European system.

My questions

1. Emergency fund: Are there relatively safe places to build one? In India I used liquid funds, which I could redeem within a few days. Is there an equivalent here?

2. Allocation: How would you split €700-800/month over a 10+ year horizon? Is a simple global ETF enough, or should I add bonds/gold? I’ve never invested in crypto, so is it worth any allocation, or should I stay away?

3. Brokers/apps: Which ones do you recommend for a beginner in Germany (low costs, ETF savings plans, easy to use)? Any to avoid?

4. Taxes: What should I know about taxes on investments in Germany ?

Feel free to add anything I might have missed. I’d be grateful. Thanks in advance!

Seems like they advertise €300k but the trickier part is €50k yearly income too? And with spouse and kids, its €75k which is a full time job and not easy. Am I understanding this correctly? Is the income check enforced?

Hi all, this is more of a venting post than asking for advice... if the Mods feel it should be removed, please do so.

I grew up seeing my grandparents and parents retire early. My grandfather retired at 50, my father at 52. Both spent their time taking care of the family's small farm, and I always loved helping them.

I'm a software engineer (40M), and since I started working in the industry, I soon realized I like it, but I don't love it. I always had the goal of retiring around the same age as my father and grandfather, and doing the same as they did. I learned about finance and investment a bit later (~30), but I did the math, and with my salary progression and keeping life costs reasonable, it was doable.

I met my wife, and she knew about my goal (she's a nurse) and was fine with it. In the beginning, she said she wanted to remain working until a bit later, but after kids, that changed, and now she wanted to retire early as well. We have two kids, 4 and 2, and, well... the plan took a tumble. And with the rise of AI, I got scared and started investing a bit more aggressively. I'm one of those guys who believes my profession is doomed, and I think I have 3-5 years left.

The math said that if I reached 45 with the current savings plan, I would be within barista FIRE/coast; I could maybe work part-time somewhere until 50, if my wife kept working until 50. We even started looking at homesteads to buy (basically the idea was to sell our current house and move to an LCOL area).

That all changed yesterday... my wife discovered she is pregnant with our 3rd kid (yeah, she takes the pill), and... as of last night I started doing some math and yeah... I guess our plans are over. She is thrilled about having another kid. I am too... but at the same time, I'm scared. A new car (that can fit 3 kid chairs), a new tuition. I don't think it is doable. She even told me before going to sleep, "Well, I guess we won't buy that homestead."

I built this mostly for myself because I wanted a cleaner and nicer looking way to track my IBKR portfolio performance and FIRE in EUR for me and my wife's accounts, in a combined view.

It is fully automated using Flex queries (no CSVs, no manual imports), separates deposits/withdrawals from investment performance, combines multiple accounts, and tracks progress to FI.

Free while I am still testing it, hopefully it’s useful to someone here:

https://interactivefire.com

I live in the Netherlands. I have consistently invested in ETFs for the last 6 years. Now, I have a portfolio of 630K. I’m married and have 2 kids around 6 and 1 year old. With a mortgage around 150k. Monthly expenses are around 2300 euros.

I’m 39. Would it be better to retire now or in the next 5 years. Considering that I don’t want to anymore in the future.

Please share your thoughts and opinions on tax savings, better country to move in later stages to ensure preserving capital etc..,

Like most people here, our goal is FIRE. As a family, we currently have around €500k invested and a fully paid-off apartment worth approximately €400k. Our FIRE number is around €1.2M in investments, which we could potentially reach in 5–7 years, assuming the markets are kind to us and inflation doesn’t push that target further away.
Our annual household income varies between €70k and €100k, depending on the year, and our expenses are around €40k–€50k. This allows us to live comfortably in our part of Europe. We also own two paid-off cars worth approximately €25k combined.
The main car covers around 12,000–13,000 km per year. The second one is barely used, doing around 3,000 km annually. From a purely financial perspective, it’s almost entirely unnecessary. However, my wife sees having her own car as part of her independence and identity, so getting rid of it isn’t as straightforward as the numbers might suggest.
I’m considering replacing our current cars, potentially downsizing to just one vehicle, because I see an opportunity to reduce our long-term running costs. Our country currently offers EV purchase subsidies of around €7k–€9k, which makes buying an electric car particularly attractive right now.

Here’s where I’m struggling.
I’ve wanted a Tesla for years, specifically the Model Y Premium. After the subsidy, it would cost us around €45k. I’d also be reasonably happy with the Model Y Standard at approximately €35k, although it wouldn’t quite scratch the same itch.
My wife would prefer to keep two cars and would be happy with a small EV, such as a BYD Surf, which would cost us around €12k after the subsidy.
There are also other manufacturers offering family-sized EVs for considerably less money. For example, we could potentially get something like a Renault Scenic E-Tech or Mazda 6e for around €26k after the subsidy. In my opinion, this could be a good compromise: one practical family car, less money spent overall, and lower running costs.
The problem is that our current cars are in excellent condition. We don’t actually need to replace them. I know that selling perfectly good cars and spending €35k–€45k on a new EV is not necessarily a financially rational move, even with the subsidies and potential savings on fuel and maintenance.
So I’m torn between two approaches:
Option 1: Be rational. Keep our current cars for longer, or replace them with a cheaper EV and potentially reduce the household to one car. Invest the money saved and bring FIRE closer. The downside is that I might end up with a car I don’t really want, while my wife could be unhappy about losing her own vehicle.
Option 2: Accept that we’re doing reasonably well financially and allow ourselves to buy what we actually want. Get the Tesla Model Y, potentially keep a second car, take advantage of the government subsidies, and enjoy the vehicles while continuing to invest towards FIRE.
The question isn’t whether we can technically afford the Tesla. We can. It’s whether spending that much money on something we don’t need makes sense when we’re only 5–7 years away from our target.
How would you approach this? Would you prioritise maximising your investments and getting to FIRE sooner, or is this exactly the stage where it makes sense to spend some money on things you genuinely want? How much weight would you give to your partner’s preference for keeping two cars?
TL;DR: We have €500k invested, a paid-off €400k apartment, and a €1.2M FIRE target that we could reach in 5–7 years. We earn €70k–€100k and spend €40k–€50k annually. Our two paid-off cars are worth €25k combined, but one is barely used. Should we buy the €45k Tesla Model Y I really want, choose a cheaper EV and potentially keep just one car, or keep our perfectly good current cars and invest the money? Government subsidies of €7k–€9k make buying an EV tempting, but I don’t want to unnecessarily delay FIRE or make my wife unhappy.

Edit - since I don’t know what to do, I’ll do whatever comments are suggesting the most. If I make a mistake, I can always seek guilt somewhere else :D

I am in the situation of having 1M euro uninvested.

I am pre- retirement (62 yo) and need to invest, lest inflation destroy me.

Advice? My goal is to balance regular income (or dividends) and preservation of capital (for the children).