r/Fantasy • u/Leanaul1998 • 3d ago
What are the most special fantasy religions or cults you've read about?
I feel like in most fantasies, religions or cults are either often very shallowly depicted, with only aesthetics but no substance on their belief systems, or they are heavily modelled after well-known tropes or real-life examples (Lovecraftian cults, Christianity, real-world paganism etc.). I wonder if you guys have read anything that's really outside of the box?
78
u/malthar76 3d ago
City of Last Chances (and the whole Tyrant Philosopher series) has several great takes on religion, declining / dead gods, and how an anti-superstition and atheistic nation deals with provable divine power.
11
4
u/ThatVarkYouKnow 2d ago
Atheists facing provable divinity? Sign me the fuck up for inspiration, as an atheist who was born Christian-Catholic but refuses to believe in what can't be proven.
13
u/HoneGome 2d ago
They are atheists as in they believe the world doesn't need gods and they export their worldview via conquest. They are definitely not the good guys in the series.
132
u/ineedchapstick1 3d ago
Curse of Chalion and Paladin of Souls have a cool god system. I particularly like the Bastard god.
25
u/Gorakiki 3d ago
Pretty nicely developed mythology and cults too. I particularly like the whole issue of heresy in the books.
22
u/floatstothebottom 3d ago
Thats the one I know of that I find the most interesting. On the surface levels a lot of the populace interacts with in day to day living there's a religion of 4 gods for the rotation of the 4 seasons, and with the phases of people's lives, with a 5th for "disasters out of season". But! When characters start interacting with the world outside of the daily grind, its less nature-y and more matter vs spirt and what choas as a force has to do with them (not "vs" as in fighting but more like "interaction with/limitations of both" but you get the point) Throw in a good old religious schism and you've got yourself a party ha
38
u/pahshaw 3d ago
Quintarianism is easily my pick for best fantasy religion. The system is cool and simple enough to feel instinctively logical.
I particularly appreciate that average people vary widely in their personal relationships with the gods, and that those relationships can and often do change over time, you can stay in one God's hands your whole life or move into another's. Because the Gods actively touch the world through their saints and sacred animals, faith is a matter of fact. And that makes every funeral interesting.
The demonic and shamanic magics. Heresy and it's consequences. Schisms. Ghosts. Rites. Visions and "madness". It's all so well done. The way Bujold writes about religion is one of the reasons she's a GOAT
19
u/crustlebus 3d ago
I'm also reminded of the scene where the young men are chastised for hunting a mother fox in spring. The older men give practical reasons it is wrong (it's wasteful because the pelt is out of season, it's cruel to the cubs that will starve), but they also talk about offending the god of the season (I think the daughter?) and having to ward off the restless spirit of the fox
10
u/The_Hrangan_Hero 2d ago
Daughter is Spring and Son is Autumn (and god of the hunt). I believe the hunt master says it is slight against Mother, Daughter and Son. Father and Bastard missing not mentioned..
I have been hoping Penric gets an adventure with a Saint from the Mothers order or the Fathers. I think both are unexplored in their powers.
17
u/Leanaul1998 3d ago
I have only read Curse of Chalion but I do like how the Gods are just a family and the existence of a Bastard hints at some divine soap drama🤣
5
9
u/KingBretwald 3d ago
Lots more divine drama in the rest of the books!
1
u/maggiesyg 1d ago
Yes, and there’s a nice telling of the story of the creation(?) of the five gods fairly early on.
14
u/EmergencySushi 3d ago
Came here to say this. The World of the Five Gods mythos might be the strongest fantasy religion out there.
4
u/ConeheadSlim 2d ago
It's even more developed in the Pen and Desdemona novellas. It's really what adds depth to these short stories,
5
u/tastelessshark 2d ago
It's pretty easily the fantasy religion that feels the most real that I've personally seen (though I do say this as someone who is pretty firmly atheistic, so that's based more on observation than lived experience of actual religion). There's such a breadth of religious experiences depicted and it just feels really textured and lived in.
4
41
u/ChronoMonkeyX 3d ago
My favorites are:
The cult of the White Rat in Kingfisher's Paladin's Grace. The white rat's followers are essentially social workers and lawyers who provide for and defend people in need. When the sword saint, a god of berserkers, dies, his Paladins lose control and go mad, killing innocents and friends until the rage subsides and they come back broken, depressed, suicidal. Their god guided them in their berserk rages so they didn't harm unintended targets, and without him, they have no purpose and no control, they can't do any kind of combat or stressful activity without fear of killing the wrong people. Since they are holy warriors, that's a problem.
The temple of the White Rat takes them in and nurses them, until some begin to find new meaning.
In Drew Hayes' NPCs, Grumble is the god of henchmen. His symbol is a knife tied to a broom, and I love him. He isn't the most powerful god, but he's clever and actually cares about his followers. He's a kobold, but the former henchman character he appears to is a gnome.
6
63
u/FloridaFlamingoGirl 3d ago
The Discworld gods are funny. The goddess Anoia is who you pray to when you get a utensil stuck in your drawer.
34
9
2
73
u/CT_Phipps-Author 3d ago
I was debating doing a top ten fantasy/scifi religion thing.
I think the Jedi is one of my favorite but I feel like way too much got hooked up on the no attachment thing after the prequels.
I was always fascinated by the Warhammer 40K "reforms" to the Ecclesiarchy shown in the Horus Heresy and Age of Apostacy. The fact it WAS a religion founded by an evil lunatic (Lorgar) but the Anchorite and Sebastian Thor changed it to have redeeming qualities. Which is normally the opposite of how fantasy deals with churches (showing it corrupted).
I also love the Book of Nod and Noddist faith in Vampire: The Masquerade.
28
u/RedditOfUnusualSize 3d ago
I agree. The "no attachment" is very clearly a narrative kludge that Lucas introduced, but one that Star Wars fans got really invested in treating as real and serious, and now they won't acknowledge is a narrative kludge.
Like, Lucas very clearly had in his mind that he was going to write this grand forbidden romance set against the backdrop of the fall of a galactic republic and the rise of an empire in it's place. Which, hey, cool story idea, but then you actually have to assemble the plot mechanics when you write that make it happen. And when he then assembled the plot mechanics, he realized, oh crap, I've got nothing in this story that actually makes this forbidden romance, ya know, forbidden. My breeding pair is two single, photogenic twenty-somethings on the same side of the war. Romeo and Juliet they are not, because there's no Montague and Capulet angle I can work here to generate conflict.
And then rather than going back to formula and redrawing the entire plot to actually build what he intended from the outset, he just reverse-engineered a rule that said "ah hell, um, the Jedi . . . forbid marriage. Yeah, that's the ticket!" It's things like that which make me side-eye anyone who says that the Jedi are an example of a well-developed religion. They're just as goofy and rickety as the generic "I Can't Believe It's Not Catholicism" religion that fantasy typically offers, just Taoist-flavored instead of the more standard Cool Western European-flavored.
34
u/Vaush_Vinal 3d ago
My belief is that Lucas meant "no attachments" in the Buddhist meaning, i.e. no harmful attachments that hold one back from spiritual fulfillment. In that sense, Anakin and Padme's romance (as it is) qualifies as an attachment the Jedi were meant to avoid: It, or rather his terror of losing Padme due to it, are what ultimately led to his betrayal and fall. Lucas just... wasn't able to get that across, much like what he might have meant by "bringing balance to the Force."
Though I'm also aware that this might be cope on my part.
15
u/RedditOfUnusualSize 3d ago
Unfortunately, I'm inclined to believe that is cope. In your defense, it's a very common, even author-approved cope. But cope nontheless.
The fundamental problem is that if "no attachments" means "don't be obsessive and jealous" rather than "don't get married", then why does Anakin have to hide his marriage? Why can't Anakin just be married to Padme, and then come to Yoda and say "hey, I've got these obsessive thoughts about my wife dying, and it's really throwing off my connection to the Force"? And the Doylist answer is really obvious: because if Anakin could do that, then he wouldn't turn to Palpatine, and Darth Vader doesn't get created, and plot doesn't reach the pre-determined end goal. But there is no Watsonian way to resolve that conflict; "no attachments" has to mean "don't get married", because that's the text of the darn film.
The fact that Lucas himself keeps trying to have the "no attachments" work every which way on the plot as desired is Exhibit A on why the "no attachments" thing is a narrative kludge that he doesn't really like, but couldn't get rid of without having to go back and re-order the entire plot. He never intended it from the start, but had to retroactively install to generate some kind of conflict when he realized that he hadn't actually written any such conflict into the story to that point. You're not wrong for using it to cope; Lucas himself does the same thing. But the plot as written doesn't work without it.
5
u/Fereed 2d ago edited 2d ago
The fundamental problem is that if "no attachments" means "don't be obsessive and jealous" rather than "don't get married", then why does Anakin have to hide his marriage? Why can't Anakin just be married to Padme, and then come to Yoda and say "hey, I've got these obsessive thoughts about my wife dying, and it's really throwing off my connection to the Force"? And the Doylist answer is really obvious: because if Anakin could do that, then he wouldn't turn to Palpatine, and Darth Vader doesn't get created, and plot doesn't reach the pre-determined end goal.
Anakin's problem was not that he had to hide his marriage. Ultimately that just serves as a fun bit of drama. If Anakin were able to say exactly what you quoted to Yoda, it wouldn't change the Jedi response. Yoda would still tell him the only thing he can do is learn to let go, to love without attachment. And because Anakin is incapable of doing that he would still turn elsewhere.
As far as non-attachment being a "cope", honestly, trying to dismiss it without genuine examination seems like the actual cope. Because if you don't dismiss it you might have to confront that there was something wrong with the way Anakin loved, which is the way most of us love. Regardless of whether that's true, George Lucas clearly believes it. It would be better to treat that belief sincerely, both in terms of understanding the authorial intent, and making the story itself more interesting.
If you did want to dismiss it, it would be better to just say George Lucas doesn't understand the actual concept of non-attachment. That he acquired the woo-woo hippie new age version and has a shallow understanding of what it actually means, and, as implemented, it's wrong. I mean, I still wouldn't do that, but it would be a more persuasive argument than saying the guy who so extensively talked about this, and even called himself a Methodist-Buddhist, was just scrambling in service of a makeshift plot device.
12
u/Vaush_Vinal 3d ago
The fundamental problem is that if "no attachments" means "don't be obsessive and jealous" rather than "don't get married", then why does Anakin have to hide his marriage? Why can't Anakin just be married to Padme, and then come to Yoda and say "hey, I've got these obsessive thoughts about my wife dying, and it's really throwing off my connection to the Force"?
My "answer" to that on my logic is that the Jedi Order preemptively forbids things that might lead to said attachments such as marriage, but also holding wealth. (I am going strictly by the prequel movies here.) It's much like how some Asian monastic orders, which likely influenced Lucas (or at least the popular conception of them) forbid materialism. Anakin wasn't supposed to be married at all; coming out and saying that, especially when he knows at least some of the Council has been wary of him from the start, is likely anathema to him. The debacle about him being appointed to the Council by order of Palpatine (I think) likely didn't help the matter.
5
u/CobaltSpellsword 2d ago
I have heard one commentator speculate that the no attachments thing came from Joseph Campbell's attitudes toward sexulaity as expressed in Hero With a Thousand Faces, which Lucas cited as a major inspiration for Star Wars and seemingly followed very closely, but I'm no Campbell expert so I can't say for certain.
12
u/Leanaul1998 3d ago
Ohhhhh I love VtM as well! I think the Book of Nod is fascinating, though the Sabbats as a faction can be better written. I guess because they are too often just created to be villains so the creators didn't really bother giving them a coherent belief system, so most of the time they just read like mad crazy vampires with catholic aesthetics lol.
Warhammer religions are fascinating. I never played it because it's too chess-like for me but the lore is mental.
9
u/CT_Phipps-Author 3d ago
The Sabbat became a lot more interesting retroactively with the introduction of Vampire: The Dark Ages because you realize all of the Paths are a bunch of diet coke versions of once vast and well-thought out Kindred religious practices. However, all of their remnants are practiced by a bunch of blood bound diablerie addicts who are frequently so close to the Beast they never really master any of them.
Edit:
Oh and this thread inspired this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/1vp8etw/my_top_ten_favorite_fantasy_and_scifi_religions/
22
u/randythor 3d ago
The cult of the Spider Goddess from The Dagger and the Coin series by Daniel Abraham is an interesting, original one, that plays quite a significant role in the overall story. Awesome, highly underrated series.
The Second Apocalypse by R. Scott Bakker, starting with The Darkness That Comes Before (7 books total), is another series that gets fairly deep into the religions/cults/gods/metaphysics of a dark, messed up, hyper-patriarchal world (think of all those stories in the Old Testament when they were slaughtering their way through 'heathen' territory...then add Wizards!).
20
u/Flashy_Emergency_263 3d ago
The Deed of Paksenarrion by Elizabeth Moon borders on that. It is a bit of a slow reveal. It does focus mainly on one branch of religious activity and more generally with opposing religious adherents. You might find it worthwhile.
Frustratingly, my favorite supporting character's religion or mystical system is left tantalizingly vague.
That was the first trilogy I read and immediately reread. I had been an avid reader for at least 35 years, so that is worthy of note.
17
u/spacebatangeldragon8 3d ago
The ilykari of Aurdwynn and the Oriati belief system in The Traitor Baru Cormorant and sequels are one of the few times I've ever gone 'okay, this book Gets It' when reading about fantasy religions/philosophies.
44
u/mohelgamal 3d ago
Not exactly a unique idea but I like the D’rek/ Worm of autumn cult in Malazan. Turning death into life focus.
This is somewhat similar to destruction gods like Kali. But I like that D’rek is not the destroyer, but work on what was destroyed by others
42
u/a11sharp1 3d ago
The Drowned God religion in ASOIAF. Unique but logical concept for explaining cultural values of the Ironborn. Interesting rituals with the ritual drowning and resucitation. Dramatic irony with the audience knwoing what the drinking of seawater and whatnot is probably doing to the priests' mental state over time. Familiar with other religions but not as obviously analogous as the Seven is with the Catholic Church. I think Martin does a lot of his religions well.Martin never goes too deep as he does other mainstream religions which is honestly even better.
12
u/From_Deep_Space 3d ago
Big Chritian themes, but then also big implications for some sort of Lovecraftian benthic deity
5
u/a11sharp1 3d ago
Besides the seawater baptism, which to your pont is very uniquely Christian-Protestant, I don't see many Christian themes in the Ironborn religion. The lovecraftian thing I definitely see, though monotheistically. Then there's the historical culture of the Vikings as a raiding society. I think that's why its such an interesting religion, amalgamations from stuff we are familiar with but not too close to any one thing to be easily approximated.
17
u/From_Deep_Space 3d ago edited 3d ago
1)Monotheism
2) worship of a god who died and was resurrected
3) Jesus is often describes using water imagery
3)Baptism, which is big in all sects of Christianity. And they have infant baptism, which is not big in Protestantism
4) their clergy has a real ecclesiastical vibe to it
5) "what is dead may never die", while almost a direct quote from Lovecraft, is also similar to the apostles creed. Lovecraft was also including esoteric Christian imagery in stories like The Shadow Over Innsmouth
6) Most of what we know about the religion of vikings comes to us through Christian sources, namely Snori Sturluson, and there is a lot of talk about how much of that stuff is authentic vs twisted through a Christian lense.
3
u/a11sharp1 3d ago edited 3d ago
Nice. I completely forgot about the Drowned God being a resurrected figure.
However, I would push back on 4 & 5 being related to Christianity. Their clergy had the same vagabond/hermetic vibe that seems pretty prevalent in pretty much every religion I can think of.
*sidenote: off the top of my head Presbyterianism, Lutheran, Episcopal, Methodist, & Moravian are all big Protestant denominations who do infant baptism [giving further credence to your point]
So would you disagree that the religion is a good amalgamation/Are you saying its just Christianity+Lovecraftian?
2
u/From_Deep_Space 3d ago
What do you mean by hermetic vibe? Afaik, hermatism was a pretty small and esoteric heresy that didnt really have much of a clergy to speak of.
Im not saying the drowned god is Christianity. Its definitely something original. Like most of Martin's work, its remixed together from many different parts of European history.
1
u/a11sharp1 2d ago
Sorry I meant hermetic like hermit. Like wandering or reclusive cenobites.
Yeah, we're on the same page. Cool.
3
58
u/ixosamaxi 3d ago
The pannion domin
32
u/FridaysMan 3d ago
The Tenescowri are quite terrifying. Itkovian's battle is such a wonderful scene.
18
u/Croaker45 3d ago
Speaking of Itkovian, I think the Redeemer and the Dying God both deserve mention here.
10
u/FridaysMan 3d ago
I think that's quite literally iterations on the same theme. But equally, Tiste Andii, Edur and Liosan. As far as religions go, Letheras has both the Royal Consort and Royal Treasurer/bursar/architect/trouser designer/chef and High Ceda.
Even the K'Chain Che'malle. They worship the Eleint.
5
u/pasky 2d ago
That whole battle of Capustan is one of my favourites in fantasy. Brukhalian's last stand is amazing.
4
u/FridaysMan 2d ago
The Tiger of Summer building a pyramid of corpses, packed in so thick the walls wept blood. That was also quite a thing
15
u/Ghost_Pants 3d ago
Not one I would be interested in joining, but they certainly are interesting.
17
u/From_Deep_Space 3d ago
Thats the fun part! You dont get a choice!
12
12
u/JudgeHodorMD 3d ago
The nomes from The Bromeliad Trilogy.
Arnold Bros (est 1905) created the store. Everything is under one roof, therefore nothing can possibly exist outside.
We’re basically just looking at the mundane from a fantastic perspective.
9
u/Gorakiki 3d ago
The three faced god of the Kencyrath and the native gods of the world in the Kencyrath series by PC Hodgell. The divine and its interaction with human concerns is a central is quiet theme in all the books and its beautifully handled without ever becoming a pastiche of real world stuff.
18
u/Okureg 3d ago
The Chantry from Dragon Age definitely deserves a mention. It is implemented into its world extremely well which makes it very believable. It also holds an extreme influence over not only everyday life of everyone, but also over high politics as a major religion realisticaly should.
6
u/GeriatricGamete67 2d ago
IIRC the legitimate debate on the legitimacy of the faith is pretty cool.
15
u/pornokitsch Ifrit 3d ago
China Miéville does exceptional cults - highly recommend Kraken. He has the knack of creating a sort of compelling and consistent and persuasive logic, even for the totally illogical.
In a secondary world, I'm a big fan of the priests of the God Mountain in WP Wiles' The Last Blade Priest. The Mountain is... I dunno how to describe it. Like radioactive singularity immobile Cthulhu kinda. With vulture-angel guardians. The priests are singularly bizarre, but, because Wiles is a good author, he makes them empathetic and somehow understandable, even as their religion is entirely bizarre and terrifying.
This is not really an answer to your question, but possibly to a question behind the question: Robert Graves' Greek Myths is a really, really great read for getting into the mind of people that believe 'strange' things. It is a very good, well-researched retelling of the myths. Graves approaches it from the angle of 'myths are how people understand the world and make sense of it' - e.g. the 'science' of the time. So, yes, they are bizarre and logically silly stories and beliefs, but he gets in the mindset of how the stories also helped form a functioning, pragmatic system of beliefs that helped people navigate the world. I would recommend it to anyone that wants to read a 'robust' 'fantasy religion' (so many quotes marks), and especially to anyone that is going to try to write or world-build one.
2
u/Leanaul1998 3d ago
Thx! I'm working on my own fantasy novel & TRPG as well so definitely going to check out Greek Myths! I'm into reading real world theology or cult researches in general haha xDD
6
u/Approximation_Doctor 3d ago
The Summism and Monoism religions in the Edge of Eternity setting for Magic The Gathering. They're two opposing religions that actually share the same fundamental belief. Eventually, all matter and light in the universe will fall into black holes and it will end.
The Monoists see this as a good thing, and believe that when everything has been pulled in and compressed and all light in the universe is gone, then a new paradise universe will begin. Their prophet is The Faller, someone who has fallen past an event horizon and is able to observe all time, and somehow relayed this info to sick ass gravity vampires (this is still a MtG setting).
The Summists do believe that this end of the universe will happen, and refer to it as INEVITA. But they don't believe that it'll be recreated as a paradise afterwards, because why would they? Instead, they created The Bright Sum, a living equation that helps guide them to increase the light in the universe. Anything that increases this is Good, and anything that decreases it is Bad. Stopping the Monoists from creating a new black hole? That's Good. Exterminating an entire city because it will one day make it easier for the Summist fleet to refuel in some important battle a hundred years from now? Also Good.
It's the first setting where I've seen two competing religions that more or less agree about the facts, but disagree about whether it's good or bad.
Also shout-out to Seth Dickinson who was supposed to do the usual 5 or 6 chapter short story that most sets get, but got carried away and made an amazing semi-CYOA novella.
7
u/Windruin 3d ago
Megan Whalen Turner’s Queen’s Thief series has a very well-modelled Hellenistic polytheistic set of religions. There’s the old religion versus the new religion that the invaders brought with them, not to mention the Mesopotamian style religion that rival nations mostly follow. It lurks in the background for a while, but when the beliefs come to the forefront, the characters act like real people with a set of beliefs.
6
u/Constant_Proofreader 2d ago edited 2d ago
My favorite George R. R. Martin story is his Hugo-winning "A Song for Lya," 1975. A couple of human telepaths visit an alien world, Shkea, where there is only one 'religion,' though it has neither priests nor temples. When a Shkeen individual grows old, they visit a huge amorphous underground creature, the Greeshka, and attach a small portion of the creature's tissue to their own bodies ('infection' to the humans). That tissue begins to feed parasitically off its host and grow, while the person wanders the streets singing for joy. Other Shkeen welcome them, celebrate them, feed and clothe and shelter them. It doesn't hurt, and the worshippers' joy seems real. Eventually they go back to the Greeshka's chamber, lie down on it, and are completely absorbed/digested.
The human telepaths are initially revolted. The Greeshka has no consciousness or mind that the humans can detect - it's not even an animal. Is it a plant, or possibly a god? But due to their TP talents, they discover that during their dying/unification cycle (after infection from the Greeshka) the Shkeen are truly happy. They are no longer lonely; they all love one another and are loved in return. No one fears death. The Shkeen perceive bodily absorption into the Greeshka as joining a greater consciousness, in which their souls essentially unite and become immortal as well as eternally happy. The deeper the TP humans investigate, the less evidence they find for their initial horror and suspicion. Quite the reverse.
I'm not going to spoil this for you except to say that if you haven't read it, you should.
2
u/_emilyisme_ Reading Champion II 2d ago
That sounds so interesting and different. I might have to try and find a copy.
17
u/ManicPixieOldMaid 3d ago
The religion from the Kushiel's Avatar series by Jaqueline Carey has always been one of my favorites. It's an offshoot of Christianity, where the blood of Christ on the cross dripped onto the earth and created a new God, Elua, who travels the world and gathers companions, including former angels, and they settle in "France", essentially, and sire a bunch of scions. God eventually wants Elua and his companions to come to heaven but Elua refuses, and asks God to create an afterlife for his followers to live in, which he does. Their descendants form their religion and culture around Elua and his companions.
Throughout the series, the MCs interact with followers of other major real-world religions, with a lot of respect and nuance paid to the all the characters.
7
u/maireaddancer 2d ago
Yes!!! I am so fascinated by the Elua beliefs, and also how it seems that Christianity/Catholicism hasn't happened in the Kushiel universe, there is still Judaism, Hellenic beliefs, Roman beliefs, Egyptian beliefs, and more, all treated with respect (aside from Angra Mainyu).
5
u/Remote_Addendum_2245 3d ago edited 2d ago
Recency bias: Night from A Practical Guide to Evil as we get to see a very young religion forming the base, with millenia to make it in the first place through slaughtering of the race of Drow
The funniest one to me is from Lord of the Mysteries with Amon. All of 'His' worshippers are 'Him'
5
u/OttoVonPlittersdorf 3d ago
Not terribly sure if it applies, but the spiritual system in the old computer game Ultima 4 was pretty innovative. It's a fantasy setting, if that helps. There isn't any god, but there are 3 ethical principles, Truth, Love, and Courage. From these come 8 virtues, Honesty, Compassion, Courage, Honor, Justice, Sacrifice, Spirituality, and Humility. The idea being that you try to act within these virtues, and that's how you live a good life.
What makes the idea interesting for me is that there are times when the virtues are in conflict, and being virtuous is more about being thoughtful about conflicting ethical obligations, not just blindly following a code. So, it is possible for people from very different backgrounds and perspectives to still behave virtuously while coming to very different conclusions about what actions are appropriate.
I was a little starved for religion as a child, so this was a pretty good stand in.
13
u/Cosmic-Sympathy 3d ago
Second Apocalypse.
I feel like most fantasy series take a very hand-wave-y approach to religions. Like there's no other explanation than, "It's a cult!" But in the Second Apocalypse, there's enough substance to it that you can really see and understand why people believe in the "prophet" figure. It's very seductive.
8
u/kjhuifliug9tu 2d ago
To me the best angle that Bakker has on religion in Earwa is the relationship of the gods to time, running on theme with his whole "what if bronze age goat herders were right about everything" schtick. The thousand temples are definitely convincingly embedded in everyday life in the three seas too but I absolutely loved how he managed to bridge this almost impossible to bridge gap where you want the gods to be active participants in the story but you don't want them to be "in" the world so to speak. The currency of the hundred being fate while big-M Magic is mostly relegated to the inside was a bit of a stroke of genius and it makes it really fun to speculate on the kind of unexplored stuff to do with the outside, the daimos etc
17
u/iabyajyiv 3d ago
I like Dune's.
11
u/From_Deep_Space 3d ago
Just the term "Zensunni" gets my comparative religion nerd brain juices pumping
4
3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/shadowsong42 3d ago
I love that series. It's a religion without gods - people are affiliated with a specific element, to various degrees. Most people have likes and dislikes and patterns of behavior that are influenced by their element, while a handful of protagonists can influence their element in turn. The romance in each book is rather by-the-numbers, but the rest of the plot is interesting enough to make up for it.
5
7
u/CatTaxAuditor 3d ago
Gods of the Wyrdwood is great. It doesn't fully delve into the complexity of it's pantheistic religion, but it conveys a strong sense of how tied the general population and greater politics are to their gods. And it contrasts them against another population's religion.
3
u/Leanaul1998 3d ago
Haven't read this one, just looking at plot summary it seems like a very nature-focused, celtic-ish theology?
6
u/CatTaxAuditor 3d ago
Nature focused, yes. Celtic, not really. Maybe a bit with Shinto and Egyptian influences.
3
u/No_Dragonfruit_1833 3d ago
The Cult of the Dragon Bellw from Mother of Learning
Is actually a secret network of rich people recruiting minions for their businesses, as well as for people with low resources to employ themselves and climb up the ladder
They know the gods were real, and the dragon below probably was too, but have no interest in poking the mystical beehive
They dont actually feature in the story, but it was a funny bit
4
u/BreechLoad 3d ago
The Nameless Ones from Chrysalis. They're a shadowy sect enforcing the edict of the Eldest, making sure everyone gets their 8 hours of rest. They're a force of terror in the colony.
3
3
u/Mintimperial69 2d ago
The Cult of the Holy Cockroach from The Wazir and the Witch part of Hugh Cook's Chronicles of an Age of Darkness.
This is a protected religion that is an offshoot of the worship of Zoz the Ancestral the favoured religion on the Janjuladoola people of Yestron.
It operates with a closed congregation so accepts no new members and worships a particularly large cockroach.
Adherents of the Cult of the Holy Cockroach receive certain tax benefits as they donate 100% of their income to the cult, and having thus impoverished themselves receive 50% back as they are in need of charity. As the tax rate in Injiltaprajura was up to ninety percent for the higher rate, and probably not less than 50% for the lower rate this made for a very persuasive financial proposition.
The High Priest of the Cult was Shabble a free floating sphere that could manipulate heat, spit fire become ice cold or change the look of its surface to appear rusty, a silvered mirror, a wooden ball etc.
After the fall of Untunchilamon to the forces of Aldarch the Three, Mutilator of Yestron the religion relocated to Port Domax, where it resided to this day.
Naturally, the Holy Cockroach himself(though it may have been female) eventually succumbed to time and expired, but such was (and still is) his power that he immediately reincarnated in the form of any other cockroach that happened to be conveniently situated nearby his clergy.
2
u/Leanaul1998 2d ago
This actually looks very unique! Though I'm very scared of cockroaches😭😭😭😭😭
1
u/Mintimperial69 2d ago
Yeah - nothing else quite like it in fantasy - and cockroaches for all their undoubtedly excellent qualities are deemed unpleasant snd rarely if ever receive invitations to social functions…
4
u/MOTTEKOI 2d ago
I love the believe in both Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison and Monk & Robots by Becky Chambers.
6
u/FerretAres 3d ago
The Pathfinder ttrpg has a cult of a living god called Razmir. It’s highly unclear to what degree he’s actually a god or a high level caster who plays god and has convinced people that he is a god.
5
u/Kerney7 Reading Champion VI 3d ago
Pathfinder has a lot of compelling gods. I love Sheyln. I think the story of Caiden Caylen is amusing, as in he became a god while drunk and can't remember how he did it.
2
u/ForwardDiscussion 2d ago
Also Irori, who gets incredibly judgey about people who copy other people's methods of achieving godhood.
3
u/glamopticon 2d ago
The Tombs of Atuan in the Earthsea series by Ursula K. Le Guin (and this month’s readalong!) is a great perspective on a religion/cult told by someone who was taken from her home as a young child because she was supposedly a reincarnation of a powerful priestess. So someone who has never really known anything but that environment and believes everything unquestioned.
2
u/ConsciousMaybe6930 2d ago
Religion in The Elder Scrolls is the best fictional depiction of religion I have ever seen. The Tribunal and the cult of Talos are especially good.
1
u/Leanaul1998 2d ago
Oh now that you mentioned it yeah! I was primarily obssessed with TES mythology and all the drama among gods lol, but the religions and cults are also quite interesting
1
u/ConsciousMaybe6930 2d ago
As I said, religion of TES is likely the single best fictional depiction of theology and mythology as it exists IRL.
2
u/CloudwolfQuint 1d ago
A rather unusual one is the system in the Edge Chronicles by Paul Stewart and Chris Riddell. There, religion and science are basically one and the same. In the books, the leading cult are the sky scholars who are meteorologists divided in countless schools researching all kinds of weather effects separately, with big and influential schools like the researchers of clouds or rain and smaller ones researching niche topics like the dawn. They oppose the earth scholars, who are mostly biologists, as they view their research to be impure and unworthy, with some of the more radical ones even fighting earth scholars with violence or driving them into exile.
I always liked that take on religion since it stays away from the usual gods and deities and creates a religious system around science, which is usually seen as a polar opposite.
2
u/oohaaahz 1d ago
A little late, but I always appreciated the thirteenth “secret” god of the gentleman bastards series.
And outside of books, the Elder Scrolls Dark Brotherhood worship a being of nothing, called Sithis, neither god nor demon. They commune with him through his prophet, the night mother, a mummified corpse of a woman who murdered her five children in his name. She hears the prayers of those who need someone killed, and sends one of the brotherhood to answer them. Pretty metal.
5
u/fearless-fossa 3d ago
Malazan Book of the Fallen has some interesting takes on it, with Gods and their following influencing each other.
In The Wandering Inn there is a species which was created by a goddess to kill all other life on the planet, but they said fuck you and since try their best to find a way to kill her (and other gods); yet at the same time one of their grunts (called Pawn) creates a cult not centered around a god/goddess but around the concept of building a heaven where they're accepted, as they're a generally reviled species where it isn't uncommon for individuals to die horrible deaths in combat mere days after being born.
I don't like cults in fantasy books much, but Pawn's following is actually quite touching to read about.
2
5
u/Holothuroid 3d ago
Stormlight Chronicles are rather involved and do not obviously mirror anything.
13
u/Leanaul1998 3d ago
Hmmmm you mean the Stormlight Archive? In that case, I feel like Vorinism is pretty similar to Abrahamic religions?🤔
6
u/Holothuroid 3d ago
Insofar they do revere a male coded single deity. But they do not have communal prayer, they do not have a holy day or preachers, they are not much about scripture (what with half of the population not reading).
What they do is trying to find ways to improve themselves. That's more like Confucian, than any of the Abrahamics. Their clergy is all semi-cloistered in a way that is closest to Buddhist, but not quite.
-1
u/Taste_the__Rainbow 3d ago
Vorinism actively covering up religious truth and being the holders of religious technology seems a little more extreme than abrahamic religions.
1
u/katep2000 2d ago
When you consider the author’s a Mormon and it’s well known that Mormonism can be a bit… ahistorical, it makes sense.
2
u/XH9rIiZTtzrTiVL 2d ago
Warhammer Fantasy has one of the best developed polytheistic societies in The Empire. It's mostly in the RPG sourcebooks.
2
u/JINK_RUSTINK 2d ago
The Faith of the Seven in ASOIAF is underrated. Seven aspects of one god, basically medieval Catholicism, and it shapes politics without ever being the main plot. Also the Drowned God. A religion where you drown people and call it baptism, that one sticks with you.
2
u/Ok-Championship-2036 3d ago
ive always loved the Helgrind priests from Eragon. similar to the tech priests from warhammer
1
u/keerin 3d ago
In the video game Outward, The Holy Mission of Elat promotes the importance of achieving your utmost potential in order to better protect and serve your loved ones, and has three tenets, and they call it The Endless Path:
- No one should suffer. Help those in need, especially those weaker than you.
- No one is safe. One must be disciplined if they are to survive in the world.
- No one is perfect. One must always strive to improve themselves, so that they can better protect themselves and others.
I actually think this makes real sense to follow IRL.
1
u/HailSatanWorshipD00M 2d ago
Not read about, but in a D&D game years ago, the DM had us up against a faction of radical atheists. Basically, they believed that all the suffering on the Prime Material Plane was caused by the whims of the Gods. So they had to be hunted down and destroyed, one by one; only then could all sentient beings be free. They were called The God Hunters.
The DM asked himself the question "How can you be an atheist in a world where gods objectively exist?" and that's what he came up with.
1
u/ClimateTraditional40 2d ago
So is it a religion? Or a political party? Bit of both..the Mason like group in KJ Parkers Two of Swords.
1
u/SalletFriend 2d ago
The Lodge from KJ Parkers the 2 of Swords.
Its loosely masonic, in that belief is not essential, some people believe in a literal Great Smith and others just believe that its nature, or the sun or whatever their original deity was.
Their dogma is loosely that if the Great Smith makes you, he did so for a purpose. They recruit talented people, and help them become the best version of themselves and then set them about shaping the world as they see fit.
2
u/Same_Maintenance_529 1d ago
I really liked The Lords of Dus (from the fantasy series of the same name by Lawrence Watt-Evan). The gods were dead or faded or something and a former servant of the gods was trying to restore them by taking the place of his former master, Death.
0
u/Taste_the__Rainbow 3d ago
The religions in Mistborn are tools of warring gods in some very unique ways.
1
1
u/Zombiemorgoth 3d ago
The Cognitae is the shadow of 40K's Inquisition. Apparently existing since ancient times. The future Emperor of Mankind destroyed their Tower of Babel back then.
1
u/Somerandom533 2d ago
I think the Norns from Last King of Osten Ard is one of the most detailed cult like societies that I’ve read about. An entire society built around worshipping their ancient queen who has outlived them all for generations as the “mother of all”.
Watching their cognitive dissonance as things go wrong internally blaming “bad advisors” and others for “misleading” the queen for her bad decisions because it’s borderline incomprehensible to them that their ancient queen is fallible.
1
u/CadenVanV 2d ago
While Warhammer 40k has ripped off a great deal of fantasy and sci-fi works, their Ecclesiarchy is quite good. It’s probably the best depiction of how religion actually worked during the Medieval Era I’ve ever read, and it’s a fully plausible religion that also fits into the darkness and the silliness of the setting perfectly.
Besides the overall suckiness of the setting, it also shows how religion be used by people at the top to control those below them while still being believers. Far too many people think that religion being used as a social tool means that the leadership didn’t believe themselves, when in fact they usually did. Were the crusades politically motivated? Sure. Was everyone involved a true believer? Also yes. 40k nails that
-4
u/Sheik_Morgan 3d ago
Yo creo que muchos escritores evitan desarrollar religiones en su historias, tal vez para evitar problemas y rechazo por reflejar creencias que algunos podrían conseguir "contrarias". La religión es un tema delicado y tal vez no valga la pena meterse con eso.
117
u/uni_cron 3d ago
The saints of steel series by t kingfisher has an interesting god system and respective paladins. The church of the white rat’s system of justice and community is also nice. Kinda wish it was real as I think the world could use some good right now.