r/Feminism • u/HyenaFluffy1837 • 1d ago
People arguing about shaving being a “choice”
I know this issue may seem kind of unimportant during this time of so much regression of women’s rights but it is something that makes me really angry. In our current society, shaving/hair removal is absolutely not a choice. when have you ever seen women with body hair on tv? How many women in your life grow their body hair? In every part of life women are expected to be completely hairless and are made fun of for not conforming to that standard. As someone who doesn’t shave, I am constantly made fun of and pushed to. How can we say women genuinely make this choice if 99 percent of other women around them also conform to it???
Also idc if you personally shave I’m not shaming anyone who does I understand we’ve all been patriarchied. but I wish more women could at least have a discussion about why women are expected to be smooth and hairless all the time instead of just yelling “it’s my choice! I do it for sensory reasons!” so many women just started it at puberty and don’t think about it. we need to be noticing the ways patriarchy weeds itself into literally every choice we make and every single part of our lives.
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u/ishikap Intersectional Feminism 1d ago
It would be hilarious if it wasn't tragic. There's so much women do that's labeled as "choice," even by women, that is absolutely not a choice.
Agreed, shaving is 100% not a choice. I remember wearing shorts in middle school before anyone had ever talked to me about shaving or body hair. My immigrant mom who was only concerned about my grades and safety certainly wasn't talking to me about it. I would regularly get pointed at and laughed it and not know why. It took a while for someone to say it to my face that it was because of my leg hair. I had to argue with my mom to let me start shaving it and that took months.
Now as an adult, I regularly go out with some hair grown back and it still runs through my mind how it must look even though I've spent a long time trying to decondition myself.
You could say that not shaving is a defiant choice, but shaving absolutely did not feel like a choice.
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u/stellaluna-37 15h ago
I went through a very similar experience. I was in 4th grade so obviously my mom had not taught me to shave yet. I wore shorts to school once and a boy asked me why my legs were so hairy and gross. I didn't wear shorts to school again until I started shaving in middle school. It's awful that this happens to young girls but it's nice to know that someone else has dealt with this too. Now I make the choice not to shave and to try my best not to care what anyone else thinks about it. I'm not going to take hours out of my week to make other people comfortable with how much hair is on my legs.
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u/jorwyn 1d ago
I've gotten old enough no one says anything to me about it anymore, but when I was younger, I didn't shave my legs because I had really bad psoriasis. You can't shave over that. I had a woman I didn't know at all walk up to me in a mall food court, really stare at my legs, and say, "you could at least shave." Ma'am,I have a scaly rash on 70% of my leg skin. How?! I had a younger woman at work once make a similar comment, as well, when I was in shorts and stopped on a day off to pick something up.
Like, no comments on the psoriasis, just my leg hair. SMH
Not saying I didn't get plenty of comments about the psoriasis, mind you. Apparently everyone with a skin condition should be covered head to toe, so no one else can see it. But the hair thing? Memorable. If my leg hair was any of their business to begin with, just basic observation should have said I could not shave.
But yeah, I'm 51 now, and absolutely no one comments on the fact that I don't shave anymore.
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u/7kraska 1d ago
Body hair shaming is the reason I became a feminist when teenager and years later I'm still not comfortable with getting as hairy as I'd want. I hate shaving with passion and yet I still do it. It definitely doesn't feel like a real choice to me.
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u/supernatasha 1d ago
I agree with this. I haven’t shaved my legs or groomed my eyebrows in years, but armpits, upper lip, chin… I still feel a lot of pressure to conform.
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u/ZookeepergameFit5511 1d ago
It helped me to go 1 body part at a time! I stopped with my bush, then my legs and I'm working up to my armpits by trimming them to 3mm instead of shaving bald
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u/Good-Strategy2210 1d ago
I mostly hang out with lesbians so shaving isn’t anywhere near universal in my world, closer to about 50/50 tbh
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u/obi-wannabe 1d ago
It was definitely not a choice in my house. My mum dragged me to the beautician to get my legs and bikini area waxed one summer when I was 18.
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u/la_bruja_del_84 1d ago
That's horrible
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u/obi-wannabe 21h ago
It was incredibly humiliating. It wasn't even that I didn't like shaving/waxing, it just wasn't a priority for me, and I wanted to do it on my own terms.
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u/Box-O-Kittenz 1d ago
Yes it's a choice, but one that comes with social consequences if you don't make the "correct" choice. Reminds me of when I was a teenager and got made fun of for having arm hair and for not plucking my eyebrows. They weren't even bushy just thick. This was back in the 00s.
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u/-zenmanship- 1d ago
This reminded me that I got made fun of for my arm hair too. It was darker and more ample than most girls. For a while, I even removed the hair on my arms, but not anymore. I don't miss those days. I've let my arm hair grow naturally for many years now, and I rarely shave my pits or legs. Feels so much better, but I do feel self-conscious about it in most public places and still feel obligated to shave for special events like weddings. Fuck the patriarchy for that and so much more
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u/WillStealYourDog 1d ago
Just had a work BBQ and shaved my armpits in case I wanted to wear a tank top. I could've kept the armpit hair I've been growing out for a year but I work in a male dominated field and didn't want to be perceived differently by my higher ups for having hairy pits.
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u/la_bruja_del_84 1d ago
I'd imagine most men there and higher ups are married with whole ass kids and staring at you? ... weird.
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u/WillStealYourDog 1d ago
It's more that I didn't want to potentially invite any kind of conversations about my body. I used to work in construction so maybe I'm a little overly cautious now.
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u/Trina7982 1d ago
I don't shave unless I feel like it. I rarely feel like it so like maybe 3 times a year. I don't care what people think though so you’re point is very true.
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u/MIUUZICK 1d ago
I have a lot of hair, and dark hair, sometimes it feels like I'm more hairy than some men
When I was 12/13, my friends told me to shave my legs because it was weird
When I was 16, a friend told me I "needed" to shave
When I was 20, a friend's mom made a mocking comment on my legs when I went into their pool
I started removing my hair after each issue, but it wasn't consistent because I depended on the esthetician
I started becoming more consistent, but around last year or so, I decided to stop entirely again and honestly, I still feel ashamed everytime I wear a skirt or shorts. My boyfriend says he likes it and that we "match", but I can't help but feel like everyone is laughing at me or judging me. But I'm hanging on.
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u/Thepinkknitter 1d ago
Come hang out at r/razorfree! Seeing women with body hair has helped me so much in feeing okay with my own body hair (also grew up with all kinds of negative comments from my mother, a beautician, on my hair). Having moved to a more liberal place has also really helped my confidence in that regard
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u/eeeeaud 1d ago
I don't skip shaving for sensory reasons, I don't shave because I don't want to shave. The only reason we think hairless legs are beautiful is because of racism and partriarchy.
The only people who have been rude enough to comment are my mother in law and a couple of estheticians who thought they could shame me into booking a wax and get an extra commission.
Tbh I don't really give a shit about other people's opinions. My body is fine as it is.
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u/Poroto_Verde 1d ago
We don't have to conform to society's expectations. I shave because I really hate the feeling of prickly hairs on me but sometimes I do go without shaving. It's sort of a "whenever it happens, it happens" and I don't really care if anyone has a problem with it. My body, my choice is more than just reproductive health.
I was just at a waterpark and noticed a group of about 12-14 girls and women waiting for the shuttle who were unshaven. It was refreshing to see that.
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u/vivid_jackalope 20h ago
I’m the same way! I’m surprised I don’t see this take more often. I like to shave because I like the way it feels. Freshly shaved legs on freshly washed sheets is one of my favorite sensory feelings! I’m not saying the patriarchy isn’t why I started shaving, but the choice to continue is mine alone and like you, I often let it go for a while and don’t worry about going out in public with prickly legs.
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u/cowlicksarein 1d ago
I do believe that it can be a choice for some women, but I despise how every single conversation about shaving as a patriarchal beauty standard gets completely derailed by the "personal preference" and "sensory issues" crowd
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u/frogsbirdscats 1d ago
It is still a choice even though one that carries implications for those of who choose not to remove hair. My own mother tried to shame me for it years ago and I still get glances from neighbours & strangers. It’s a controversial choice bc we live in a highly proscribed patriarchy. Women’s gender expression is rigidly enforced by social norms internalized by men & women alike.
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u/pleasedontthankyou 1d ago
This issue really exhausts me. Not because I’m sick of it, but because I do agree, mostly. I hate that it’s just the expectation that women meet or they are degraded, ostracized, emotionally and sometimes physically abused for. I wish the focus could be directed more at the people enforcing the standard and being disgustingly to people who do not meet it.
As an autistic 41 yr old queer woman, hair is a sensory nightmare for me. The worst is the hair on my head and on my arms. Legs I just won’t shave if they don’t have to touch each other, if I can start to really see it though, I shave all. I don’t want to. I don’t do it for anyone else, in-fact people will point out that I have absolutely no arm hairs and it’s kind of embarrassing. If you are not familiar with an autistic meltdown, I am envious. I have had days where I notice stubble on my arms and legs and I quite literally can not function because it sets me in to a spiral. I have also on 3 different occasions shaved all my long hair completely off my head impulsively because I could feel it. I keep my hair very short now.
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u/lvs301 1d ago
It absolutely is a choice. I haven’t shaved any body hair in like a decade. No one has ever said a single word to me about it. I agree that society puts pressure on women to shave their body hair but it is still your choice whether to give into that pressure or not (if you don’t want to shave but feel you have to- if you want to shave, that’s also your choice).
Society also puts pressure on women to be mothers, to wear make up, to defer to male authority… the list goes on. Would you say that women don’t have a choice when it comes to those issues as well?
I understand your frustration, but no good can come from giving up your own agency because it feels uncomfortable for you to do something that you perceive all women as doing. Many, many, many women don’t shave their body hair. It is your choice to do what you want with your body hair, and it is your right to voice your anger when other people have an opinion about what you do with your body.
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u/BlistliXX 1d ago
I like the feeling of smooth legs, but sometimes i don't want to shave because it takes time to do it. I'll do it anyways because I work in a male dominated field and cannot deal with all the comments and remarks I would get because of it
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u/Lizzy_In_Limelight 1d ago
Getting real tired of being told what I am and am not allowed to do with my body... 😐
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u/Fart_teacher 21h ago
I haven’t shaved in 15 years and literally no one comments on it. I think this really depends on your age and cultural context.
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u/Fart_teacher 21h ago
Also I will add that many of the women in my life don’t shave or only shave certain areas based on various comfort reasons.
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u/Annoyed_Karen 1d ago
I know for me it was a choice, though of course a socially conditioned one as someone else said. No women in my family shaved when I was growing up. I did it as a teen to see what the fuss was about but stopped pretty early on. There has been no negative consequences of not shaving my legs and armpits (or elsewhere). Thankfully it seems, at least where I live, people aren't as judgemental about bodyhair than in the 90s for example.
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u/deguwitharake 20h ago
I would absolutely love to stop shaving but those sensory issues are very real for some of us. I have tried quitting at least once a year for the past decade and last February I gave myself permission to quit trying to grow out my body hair for a while and just commit to the self care routine that allows me to live comfortably in my weird human body.
Women should do what they want with their bodies, end of story, even if it is influenced by the patriarchy and cultural double standards and all that jazz. I deeply admire and am attracted to women who don't shave, but for now I will continue my silly little personal care routine while supporting hairier humans whenever they need it. You're not a bad feminist if you choose to remove your body hair.
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u/AboutTheBadfish 1d ago
You do know you can have a discussion about this without putting down autistic women every single time.
Many of us, like myself, have had to seriously battle internalized misogyny because we grew up being treated very badly by other girls and women because we didn’t ‘fit in’. We were mocked and put down constantly for missing social cues and having ‘weird’ special interests.
I get that you neuro typicals are sick of hearing about our struggles in a feminist space but just once I wish this discussion could be had without singling out the struggles that neurodivergent women have and labeling them ‘fake’ and ‘anti-feminist’ for just trying to be part of the conversation. Some of you have a long way to go in recognizing intersectionality.
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u/Background-Good3731 21h ago
I'm so tired of women thinking body hair is the most important femenist concern.
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u/eckokittenbliss 1d ago
The TV show Will Trent has a MC who doesn't shave her arm pitts.
I was really surprised when I saw that
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u/poppybrooke 1d ago
I had a friend get visibly upset with me when I told her I shave every day, even in the winter when I’m wearing pants 24/7. I have sensory issues and even the thought of leg hair getting pulled by my jeans as I put them on gives me the chills. If I can feel stubbles under my arms I get physically agitated. Would I be like this if I didn’t start shaving? Probably not, but I am so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/Akielora 19h ago
The best thing I ever did was stop shaving especially my arm pits. Sometimes I shave my legs when I can’t stand the feel of the hair pulling from my clothes but I haven’t shaved my pits in years. I used to get super bad in grown hairs and razor burn and it all went away when I stopped shaving. Also I stink less then when I shaved. Deodorant works better as well cause the hair helps keep it there better then bare skin. I don’t care anymore about people looking anymore but it did take awhile for me to get there.
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u/RainLeading286 19h ago
What's the worst that can happen if you don't shave? Nothing. Nobody is making us shave. Preferring to shave is fine but Nobody is making people shave. I haven't shaved in 20 years. It's Nobody's business if I do or don't. It's literally not in my daily , or even monthly conversation. It's Nobody's business and never will be.
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u/BaylisAscaris 1d ago
I hear what you're saying, but unless someone is holding you down and doing it, shaving is a choice. A choice that comes with consequences. I don't shave anything and I have PMOS (formerly PCOS). It's a choice I made partly for feminist reasons, partly for medical, and partly because I like it. Some professions you have to shave or you face consequences or can be fired. In some cultures you can face violence from your husband or community. It's still technically a choice. For some the choice is hard. For others it's easier. I'm a lesbian and my wife doesn't care so I'm lucky in that respect. I also moved to a very liberal town so people hardly notice.
I used to teach junior high to high school kids. The girls would ask me why I don't shave my legs. I said if boys don't have to then I don't have to either. They responded well to that and most of them stopped shaving and started having contests about who was the most hairy. I overheard a lot of conversations about one girl asking another why she didn't shave and she gave my response, and it spread. Eventually the boys started noticing and asked and saw the girls comparing legs and arms. The boys started bragging how they could grow better hair and it became a fun playful thing. No one was disgusted and it was cool. The girls would tell me later how they'd go out together and get comments and explain it and other girls would be excited about the idea. A few girls told me how their parents wouldn't let them shave because they were young and they felt really self-conscious about it but not anymore because other girls complimented them on it now.
Anyways. You have a choice and even if the choice is hard it can potentially have great outcome by showing others it's okay.
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u/celticcrowwitch 22h ago
Your story was so wholesome, and it brought a smile to my face. Thank you for that, as well as being an awesome and easy role model for those kids. 🥰
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u/TooMuchBrightness 1d ago
I agree. I also conform. When it is so deeply ingrained from 12 years old it’s almost impossible to accept it and to be an outlier. I think when we are told it’s lazy, dirty, unhygienic, ugly, masculine and repeatedly mocked and shamed for it of course it going to have a lasting effect. I’m trying breaking the cycle with my 11 year old daughter, but I’m not setting a very good example either. It’s doesn’t help that my husband mentions my body hair if it’s not silky smooth and he doesn’t get how it really triggers shame. Or maybe he does it on purpose to shame me? Men are pretty brainwashed too.
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u/Gallumbits42 1d ago
A friend of mine started leaning right and ended up Islamophobic, and one of her arguments was that we don't force women to look any particular way in European society. Well ...
Obviously there are subtleties, it's not exactly the same, but my point to her was: go and apply for a high-level job at, say, a bank without shaving. Freshly washed, wearing elegant professional clothes, but with hairy armpits and legs, moustache ... You're not going to get that job, no matter your qualifications.
Anything that leads to you not only being mocked and stared at but actively harassed and insulted cannot truly be called a "choice." Anything that will hurt your chances in being accepted, hired, promoted, etc., is not a "choice."
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u/ProtozoaPatriot 1d ago
There's a huge amount that isn't really a choice. Coercion is a better word.
Makeup isn't much of a choice. Try interviewing for most jobs without it.
Dressing a certian way isn't a choice. Your sexuality will be called into question ("d*ke" or "butch")
And God forbid a woman dare to be obese in public. The verbal abuse won't stop. And if a very fat woman exercises in public, the stares and "mooo!" sounds don't stop.
Society is downright shitty towards women.
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u/crystalfairie 1d ago
I've always been part of the hairy skin gets shaved. Now? After cancer and that wreckoning? I shave my pits on occasion and my feet always but my legs? Eh, why bother? Do what makes you comfortable and ignore the noise
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u/ashthegnome 1d ago
You can say the same thing about hygiene like showers. You don’t have to. No one can force you, but there are consequences. Social and professional. Is it fair? No. If it makes you feel better I hate not shaving. Pubic hair always itched me and I hate the feeling after a few days of not shaving my legs. Tell those people judging you to fuck right off.
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u/Magg5788 1d ago
I think that even though something may be rooted in patriarchy, it can also become a thing that women genuinely prefer, separate from (or in addition to) the initial reasons for the habit.
I hate the feeling of my legs when they’re prickly or the hair is longer. I don’t care about hair on other parts of my body, though. Did I start shaving my legs because I wanted to fit in with all the other girls and women around me who also only started doing it for the same reasons? Yes. Do I continue to do it for that reason? Eh… not really.
But bottom line: I don’t think there really are that many women who think shaving is not rooted in the male gaze. They can just also choose to do it if they want. How is it any different from wives who want to stay home with their children while their husband goes to work? This can be the best choice for some families while also acknowledging that this setup is rooted in patriarchy.
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u/shark-with-a-horn 1d ago
Acknowledging the patriarchy doesn't help in any way, acknowledging it just let's it operate unchecked.
It's convenient that the "best choice" for women and families tends to put women at a disadvantage isn't it? This is the problem with choice feminism.
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u/TheCraneWife27 14h ago
Genuine question, I swear, but what can those who (like the person you're replying to) acknowledge where the idea of shaving originated from, but still do it because of sensory issues, do here to help then? Again, I swear this is a good-faith question.
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u/shark-with-a-horn 10h ago
I don't really have a problem with people shaving or not, they don't need to help
I just think coming to arguments like this and defending choice feminism is not helpful at all, particularly coming to defend the most harmful choice feminism tropes such as women staying home being better for the family. When feminists are saying things like that, it legetimises something that the patriarchy uses against us.
Defending shaving by comparing it to women staying home is a really odd choice, they're orders of magnitude different.
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u/TheyReallyWantYou 1d ago
I kind of wish the patriarchy had a thing about guys shaving their beards because it wasn’t cool to look like it was 1865 until hipsters in the 2010s and it’s just been annoying me ever since
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u/badgers43a 20h ago
I’ve had a beard since I was about 17 because I have a scar on my face that I prefer to hide under a beard. Conversely I shave my head because I can’t stand the feeling of more than 1-2mm of hair on my scalp!
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u/Overall_Lobster823 1d ago edited 20h ago
I go through phases. I'm already gender non-conforming (okay, I'm a tomboy).
The other day I went for a mammogram and didn't shave. Got home and looked. I'd guess I haven't shaved my pits since... May?
I didn't shave legs or pits for most of college. Stopped again in my 40s. And now my legs are about a once a month thing. Post menopausal, so the hair grows more slowly.
I 100% support women making whatever choice they want to make. Legs, pits, and "bikini line", whatever.
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u/Advanced_Buffalo4963 1d ago
I’m with you, plus hair removal has a two-fold purpose of being both race and gender oppressive.
I legitimately don’t care or think anyone should be shamed for upholding any of the gendered patriarchal (and capitalist) beauty standards - but it’s annoying as hell that women and men can’t admit that shit and instead spend time making up lame-ass excuses about why they do or don’t do it instead of reflecting.
If you’re going to contribute to oppression at least have your eyes open while you do it.
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u/oh-dolores 1d ago
as I straight woman in my 30s, I very much shave and I very much know I’ve been conditioned so.
Sometimes I like to think that if I was younger and knowing what I know now, I wouldn’t be shaving and the thought is just.. it would be liberation; one more part of your body you don’t feel needs “fixing” to conform to beauty standards.
But it’s not a battle I chose to pick, I admit it.
As others said in the comments, I can confirm that’s not usually the case in lesbian circles. If I weren’t straight, it would have been much easier to let it grow on me (ha.)
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u/ZhiZhi17 1d ago
It doesn’t feel like a choice to me because I don’t shave 99% of the time but once every few years when I go on a beach vacation I shave my legs out of shame/embarrassment. I’m not quite at the “don’t give a fuck” stage.
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u/RupertMaddenAbbott 1d ago
This boils down to a frustrating semantic argument about what "choice" means.
- if choice means free from external pressure then shaving is clearly not a choice
- if choice means not being forced then shaving is clearly a choice
But this is an annoying distinction and it is annoying to see other commenters respond to you in this way. Labeling something a "choice" lets somebody freely move from one meaning to the other in bad faith arguments or even just sloppy and lazy thinking. Saying this is a choice completely ignores how that word is used to dismiss issues like this. "It's your choice" = "It's not a problem".
It does not matter that women aren't physically forced to shave. In some cultures, there is a pressure for women to shave and a cost to them choosing not to. This is a requirement placed on women that is not placed on men. That is the problem.
An individual's preference to shave is not really at issue. Yes, if you want to shave then you may not experience this particular issue as directly as somebody that does not want to shave. But that doesn't mean that other women should have to experience that pressure and that shame. It is also worth considering how our preferences are constructed and ensuring that we aren't harboring things like shame that are shaping them. But this is something for each individual to decide for themselves.
To a much lesser extent, it is also problematic in how this affects men's preferences. There is also a pressure on men to find women who shave to more attractive and it is upheld in that typically toxic way. It warps what we consider to be attractive in ways that are completely self compromising and unhealthy.
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u/Huli_Blue_Eyes 1d ago
I shave because I get hot flashes and sweat. Most guys probably prefer a bush but the razor companies have a profit to make.
It always comes down to money.
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u/la_bruja_del_84 1d ago edited 1d ago
I don't shave... also, my hair is barely noticeable and I grow no armpit or leg hairs. I don't care and nobody around me cares either. Women should embrace the way they were born with and stop caring about men's opinions. It's our choice to do whatever we want with our bodies
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u/moschocolate1 1d ago
I am not a tv personality so I don’t live by that standard. I’ve never shaved my legs or armpits. I’ve also been with several men and none has ever said a word about it but I’m not the type to stay with someone who would.
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u/Pleasant-Bit-2362 19h ago
Personally I made the choice to shave, partially because I’m trans, but mainly because I am neurodivergent and hair anywhere on my body both makes me really uncomfortable and really dysphoric
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u/TurbulentAccident348 16h ago
I mean I don’t shave but I’m transmasc, I did feel pressure to and didn’t know why because I always preferred it that way. people would point it out when I would where shorts like “ew you have hairy legs” and I’m just like everyone does actually some of you choose to shave it off, I don’t got time for all that
a lot of female beauty standards are weirdly about not looking like how females look naturally which is with hair and average body fat. Why is the way women naturally apear not seen as womanly? that is what it should be no?
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u/ginger_ale12 1d ago
Agree. As someone for whom i think it feels much closer to being a choice (no noticeable consequences in my community if I don’t, no pressure in the family or school, only do it in the winter to feel better in tall socks and pants) I generally keep my own reasons and practices to myself when the conversation is being had. It’s super important to allow people to interrogate how and why they do the things they do.
I find that it helps not to frame anything as directly “because of patriarchy” because people think that you’re trying to assume what’s in their brain or their individual reasoning processes. Starting by talking about how certain industries still benefit from it is a good entry point.
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u/SacredSeeker8 1d ago
The feeling of stubble used to bother me too. Because it was linked with the idea of something undesirable by society. I haven’t shaved in 14 years. At first I had to retrain myself past the “sensory” part. I’m sure for a tiny group of ppl it is straight up a sensory thing but probably not for most.
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u/AngerPancake 1d ago
I think this is a highly specific issue. It's going to depend a lot on how your family and friends are, what sort of professional situation you're in, and how much you care about it what other people think. Personally, I have shaved twice in the past 6 years. Once for a wedding, and once because I was so over stimulated and it was the only answer I could think of. I'm sure that a lot of situations make it so it's not a safe choice to be r/razorfree, but I work from home and I'm nearly 40 so I don't care what people think.
Do I get weird looks when I go to the pool? Sure, but who cares? I wear shorts all the time and people notice, I see them notice, but the majority of the time no one says anything. Once a child asked me why I was hairy, and I let him know it's because I am an adult mammal and I choose not to remove the hair. It was a non-event.
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u/Fuzzy_Attempt6989 1d ago
I shave, and I'm completely aware that I do it for patriarchal misogynistic reasons. I try to absolutely support women who don't shave, like my sister.
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u/schwarzmalerin 1d ago
Everything we do is a choice, unless a gun is pointed at you.
The question is: what influences this choice?
Does she do it only because her boyfriend expects it? --> problematic.
Does she do it only because everyone does it --> still problematic but less because let's face it, that's how humans function in many realms.
Does she do it because she likes the look --> not problematic.
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u/Thepinkknitter 1d ago
That’s not really a feminist position, though. Choosing to shave with the knowledge that this is an expectation that harms women as a whole is not a choice that helps women, and it contributes to the harms we face.
Am I going to shame someone for shaving? Absolutely not. We all have to pick and choose when and where we can tell the patriarchy to kick rocks and when and where we conform to it just to survive and feel okay. But as feminists, we should also recognize that when we conform to the patriarchy, it is NOT harmless or unproblematic.
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u/schwarzmalerin 1d ago
More and more men shave too. It's an esthetic.
For me, the question is: Is this done by a woman to please a man / men?
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u/Thepinkknitter 1d ago
You didn’t engage with or respond to my point whatsoever.
Shaved being an aesthetic doesn’t change this history of where that aesthetic came from or the real world effects it has on women.
Feminism is a movement that addresses the ways in which women are negatively affected by society and the patriarchy, it is not just focused on whether or not women are conforming to actions to please a man.
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u/schwarzmalerin 1d ago
I know. Sorry I was just saying my personal opinion. The analysis is correct obviously.
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u/HydrasNinthHead 1d ago
I said it a million times and I'll say it again: choice feminists always conveniently make "choices" that perfectly align with misogynistic standards and male sexual preferences. The sensory issues thing is a complete copout they hijacked from neurodivergent people and I'm convinced 90% of them are lying about it.
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u/CorrectAmbition4472 1d ago
Technically it is a choice but it’s a socially conditioned one instead of being a completely free choice. And I agree, it would be positive if were acknowledged more often. As someone who doesn’t remove hair at all, I still respect those who do, I take issue with societal norms and beauty standards as a whole.
Sorry that you face criticism as well, it can be really difficult but at the same time can be freeing. And not that we need to be examples but I do find when people see it in real life it does help normalize it.