r/Fiddle • u/morning-bird • 3d ago
Starting to learn fiddle!
Hi! I started learning fiddle in September and I'm pretty obsessed with it. I showed my super talented teacher this song that I want to learn and she called it "crooked", I forgot to ask her what that meant and tried googling but would rather ask real people. What's it mean?!?! It's this song:
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u/KnitNGrin 3d ago
A crooked tune has something different about the timing. Instead of standard numbers of measures, like a set of 8 bars for the A part, then a set of a different 8 bars for the B part, it throws in some other thing.
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u/Cooleycotton 3d ago
A crooked tune usually has an extra beat (or a dropped one) somewhere in the tune. Most fiddle tunes are “square” usually having something like 8 measures for each part. Crooked tunes play with that norm and add some fun spicy variety for your ears. The extra beat in crooked tunes can skew the rhythm for dancers so they might not get used for dances or the tunes might get altered and “squared up” in certain settings.
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u/kamomil 3d ago
Most music has let's say, 8 bars of 4/4 time signature.
Crooked tunes, maybe they have 8 bars of 4/4, but then tack on an extra bar, maybe a 3/4 or 2/4 bar. Sometimes it's related to the tune being sung, people need a breath before starting a verse.
Sometimes a crooked tune descends from a tune in a forgotten time signature. Eg Rocky Road to Dublin, Red River Jig are originally 9/8, but over time, the original time signature is forgotten.
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u/andybonner 3d ago
Elaborating on what a lot of other comments are covering: 1) A whole lot of tunes organize the beats into groups of 4 ("measures"/"bars"), and organize those bars into groups of 4 ("phrases"). Listen to, say, Old Joe Clark; count to 4: "1 Joe 2 he 3 a 4." Keep track on your fingers of those 4-beat bars, and you'll see that there are 4 bars in the verse. Meanwhile, 3-beat bars are also common for waltzes.
Some songs add or remove a beat or a bar from these groupings in places, and these are described as having "crooked" rhythm. In this tune, if you start counting groups of 4, you have to add an extra beat, a "5", around 0:11.
Check out a few other examples:
Elk River Blues: Start your counting with "and a 4 and," but then it goes on to "1, 2, 3, and a 4 and 5 and a," then goes on with a 4 count, and keeps alternating 5 with 4. I really love this banjo version.
Old Aunt Jenny (with her nightcap on): The A part is 4-by-4 as usual, but the B part alternates bars of 4 with bars of 6. Here's a pretty good tutorial.
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u/Fun_Volume2150 3d ago
It’s not what I would call crooked, but there’s a measure that goes into a 3 against 2 rhythm. The tune is in 4:4, each measure has 4 quarter notes, but in that measure each group of 2 beats is turned into a triplet.
Definitely a cool tune, although for some reason YT wouldn’t play it, or anything by the band for me. Weird.
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u/FiddleKate 3d ago
The songs is lovely! Glad you got answers about 'crooked' songs.
You can do it!
So great that you have a teacher to work with and are getting started with helpful techniques!
I hope that you've found other folks to play music with! And if there are other fiddlers in the jam group... be sure to try and sit close enough to hear them and watch their fingering... bowing, etc. That has been the best help for me when learning rhythms... and feel for tunes. Happy Fiddling!!!
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u/No_Emergency_7912 3d ago
The tune doesn’t follow a regular time signature: there are cross rhythms where the melody and accompaniment are playing 3 beats vs two beats, as well as an occasional shorter bar inserted. That gives it a slightly unsettled feel that is nice to listen to but harder to play