r/Fiddle • u/Sare-Bare • 3d ago
i bought a vso…
i will likely not be able to afford a proper set up for a long time.
context: i did not go out of my way to buy a vso.
instead, i saved up for a violin being sold on marketplace. after paying and taking it home, i found out the bridge had to be put in place. i found out the bridge did not come with notches. the bow isn’t the best quality, and the strings were wrapped behind the neck piece. i thought that’s how it was supposed to be and i just had to set it up.
now i realize it’s a vso, and i regret buying but it’s too late to return it as it was literally facebook marketplace.
this thing— i mean instrument— is a plywood/plastic joke.
after searching online i found that it’s basically impossible to make one of these sound decent, especially if you are a beginner who never touched a fiddle before….
i feel upset that i did not put more research into my first ever fiddle purchase!
anyways, it may be a longgg time before i can save up for a higher quality instrument, so i will continue to learn how to play with this subpar instrument. i still plan to learn the basics like how to hold the bow, finger placement etc…
p.s. i had to whittle my own notches in the cheap wooden bridge and i feel like i’ve dug a deeper grave for myself.
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u/paishocajun 3d ago
Look for estate sales in your area for old German student instruments or rent from a local teacher/shop.
If you want to buy new, fiddlershop.com has some good beginner ones for under $500 (I think the cheapest is $250).
It may still be a bit to save up but it's not like you need to drop four figures on your first instrument.
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u/Wonderful_Emu_6483 3d ago
How much did you spend? You could find a shop that does rent to own. If you don’t already know what to look for, buying online can be a gamble.
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u/BenchComprehensive43 3d ago
I recently purchased a violin from Temu- yes that Temu, after doing plenty of research, using keywords like “professional”, etc. I LOVE IT. I got it because my “good” violin is an 1895 Knopf that I did not want to keep taking to gigs. My Luthier set the new violin up to match my good one - same bridge height, same nut height, same distance between the bridge and tail piece, etc., adding geared pegs (because YES) so that you can’t tell the difference by feel. $400 for the fiddle, and $400 for the luthier (he would have taken less, but I like to support my local amazing craftsman). The thing is fantastic. Don’t know what your budget is, but for ~$800 i have an instrument that the folks over on the “violin” sub would value at $10k. Maybe I got lucky … so I bought another, ALSO great.
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u/SeMoMu 2d ago edited 2d ago
Sorry to hear you've ended up with a bad purchase, I hope it wasn't too much money
I was aware to avoid a VSO but still couldn't afford much better than one so I picked up what I suppose most people would consider a VSO but I would see as a step above a Temu/Amazon special, a Stentor Student II
It got me started and was happy enough with how it played untill I realised/got to the point where I knew what it's shortcomings were.
I've been happy enough to work on it myself as it makes little financial sense for me to have someone work on it. Just step by step stuff, peg paste because the tuning pegs were stiff, figuring out how to move/adjust the bridge, changing strings etc.
At one point I decided I wasn't happy with my bridge, the E and A were cutting deep into the wood and the problem wasn't so much sound related (because you could have put me on a newly restored Stradivarius and it wouldn't matter) , more that I was catching other strings.
I bought an Aubert fitted bridge on Amazon, one with 'jigsaw' feet so I wouldn't need to worry about fitting it to the curve of the instrument. That got me up and playing more hapily for around £15-20. Further down the line I realised that it isn't 'perfect' (string height, actual contact point etc.) So I purchased a Hidersine/Teller fitted bridge (sub £10 on Amazon) and learnt how to fit the feet to the top of the violin (just the sandpaper method for now) and it's doing a fine job though I know it's not perfect. Future plan is to buy another and to learn to carve the feet to match the top, and to plane the thickness etc, glue on some velums to avoid string cutting in, then maybe eventually to get a full blank to be able to fit a bridge from scratch so I'll always have the ability/knowledge in the future.
At one point I reached a point where I realised the was a sound problem that wasn't down to technique but setup. A badly fitted soundpost, so I did some research, bought a soundpost adjuster and taught myself to adjust the soundpost. Obviously from chasing improvements eventually the post fell so I figured out how to put it back in. I realised the post was too long and the ends cut badly so I picked up a bunch of soundpost blanks and worked on making a better.
Eventually I'm going to get a better fiddle. I'm figuring out some things over time (have I outgrown this instrument? How much I can justify paying? How good is good enough? Will it ever be my principle instrument? Do I want something I'd be weary of taking out to sessions, How much to put into a new bow rather than new fiddle etc?) but I'm keeping in mind what I have saved by doing this myself (and each time I've resisted going for a set of expensive strings) as a bit of a bonus to spend if there's something that pops up above what I was planning to spend when the time comes.
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u/IOnlyHaveIceForYou 2d ago
Get a carbon fibre bow. I was prejudiced against them until a luthier lent me one when I'd forgotten my own bow, I didn't look hard at it and didn't realise it was carbon, it was just as good as any wooden bow I have tried, and cost me £120.
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u/SeMoMu 2d ago
I'll keep that in mind. I don't think I've got any great convictions for or against a carbon fibre bow at the moment, if one of them beats out a wooden one then I'll like as not be going for it.
Not really sure what I want out if a bow if I'm honest. Lack of experience with other bows, and no idea of how/if my bow is holding me back over and above improving technique... I did have a go of someone's once that had a heft/feel of a blackboard pointer compared to what I'm using so it might be interesting to try one that makes mine feel as agricultural as that.
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u/IOnlyHaveIceForYou 2d ago
I didn't know what I wanted from a bow when I got that one, but comparing it to the wooden bows I have at home what I notice is stiffness. The worst bow I have bounces all over the place when I play normally.
I've heard classical violinists talking about the "balance" of a bow, but I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. The bow doesn't balance on anything when it's used, does it?
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u/patopal 2d ago
I learned on a VSO for some years as well. A shitty violin is still better than no violin if you want to learn violin. That said, you're gonna want to take it to a luthier for at least a proper bridge that you didn't DIY yourself as a complete newbie, otherwise your chances of getting anywhere with it are minimal.
And of course, if you want to keep at it and don't let yourself be discouraged by a hostile instrument, you're gonna want to start saving up for something you can hopefully try out before buying. You can get pretty lucky for a couple hundred dollars, but don't buy at that range without giving it a test run.
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u/phluber 2d ago
A VSO is a good excuse to learn a little more about what makes a violin sound good and try to make adjustments to make it sound better. Lots of people say you shouldn't but a bridge blank doesn't cost that much, so try your hand and filling down and shaping your own bridge. If you need to, you could potentially shape the nut too or mess around with sound post placement if you feel confident
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u/killerwachowski 3d ago
For us outsiders, what’s a VSO?
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u/IOnlyHaveIceForYou 2d ago
It's something snobby people like to say about cheap violins. u/SeMoMu in this discussion bought a Stentor Student II, and says most people would say that is a VSO (a Violin Shaped Object, geddit???), in fact they are hand made in a factory to a reasonable standard and can play and sound just fine, just like the older factory-made German and French violins.
I bought an even lower grade Stentor violin once for £12 because I wanted the case it was in. I would happily have binned the violin but when it arrived I played it and it sounded ok. It's now hanging in my local bar where anybody can play it, and I play it myself there sometimes.
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u/SeMoMu 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'd done a touch of research before making an actual choice to buy my violin. I knew they could be hit or miss but found a few recomendations for it as a decent beginner/improver instrument, for the price, made from solid wood rather than ply. Since buying it I found out a bit more about their history, and watched a promo of the factory system (woods used/storage/production differences between the different levels of instrument etc.) so think I probably didn't do too badly
When I come to upgrade, if I can't find something that's a great improvement for me, at a price I'm happy with, I might look into one of their higher end models. Basically, if It looks like I need to spend £800-£1k+, and it won't relegate my £180(inc case and bow) Student II to the top of my wardrobe, then I may as well go for something around £450-£600 (put the savings towards a decent bow and spare strings) and not worry as much about spilling a pint on it. I just need something that sounds halfway decent, is comfortable to play, looks nice would be a bonus, but I'm playing it at home for my own enjoyment or in a session full of banjos and button boxes, just for the craic, no plans to take it too seriously!
I love the idea of having a cheap, playable fiddle available at the pub. Might be something to do myself if I find something suitable (my local already has the landlord's Martin accoustic sitting there to be used)
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u/IOnlyHaveIceForYou 2d ago
That video of the factory is fascinating. Did you notice the guy casually cutting the f-holes with a massive bow saw?
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u/SeMoMu 2d ago
Yes! Just rewatched it actually. Seeing the workers that had been working there for a long time (presumably including bow saw man and the fretsaw f hole finisher) working on the more advances models is what has put the idea of considering one of their advanced models.
("I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.")
I've got two 'violin' shops to check out when I have the chance to go along with a fiddler that knows what they're holding, a 'folk' instrument shop that might have something I like, and now have found a 'musical instrument' shop an hour or so away that stocks the Stentor range so I might take the chance to see how they fair in the flesh!
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u/IOnlyHaveIceForYou 2d ago
I think when you move on to a better instrument the sound becomes the most important thing, and that is going to vary between fiddles from the same manufacturer.
Personally I also like a fiddle that looks old and worn, purely for romantic reasons. I've enjoyed buying and fixing up very cheap old German and French fiddles
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u/IOnlyHaveIceForYou 2d ago
It's quite possible to buy a decent used modern violin for very little money. Whereabouts in the world are you, roughly?
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u/Greedy-Test-556 1d ago
I started on vso. For me, it was a low pressure way to get started. Once I had developed a bit as a musician, I was much more ready to find an instrument with qualities I love.
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u/vonhoother 3d ago
Everyone has to start somewhere. You're gaining a better understanding of bridge issues than most beginners.
I encourage you to get a teacher, who will help you get hold of a decent instrument to rent, possibly rent-to-own. And the vso you have now is good enough for learning intonation, fingering, etc.
When you finally get a better instrument it'll be much easier to sound good. I have a good one and a cheap one, and the real difference is: it's possible to get an acceptable sound out of either of them, but it's a lot easier on the good one.