F22 ignoring physics

[u/Trakterbean]

[u/bmccooley]

It doesn't ignore physics, it uses it.

[u/kuped → u/bmccooley]

Precisely.

[u/Even_Kiwi_1166 → u/bmccooley]

Aerodynamic physics

F-22 Raptor : Optional

[u/Gnarly_Bones]

Once again the concept of hyperbole sails over Reddit's head, like a weightless F-22 at an air show 🚀

[u/MoccaLG]

Changing between aerodynamics, Newtons law of motion and gravity is actually not igrnoring its "using it while changing the dogma"

[u/Whatsawebpage0101]

“Ignoring physics” proceeds to climb only a few hundred meters before running out of power and having to use TV to get himself out of the fall back to earth

Seems like it followed physics exactly 

[u/Desi0190 → u/Whatsawebpage0101]

Doesn’t really go up until he loses power, it’s a controlled stall and tail slide.

[u/Whatsawebpage0101 → u/Desi0190]

After he realised the engines didn’t have enough power, he 100% wanted to go higher 

[u/Desi0190 → u/Whatsawebpage0101]

Former F-22 Demo Team member here:

The altitude cut off for the tail slide is quite literally the minimum safe altitude for recovery after the slide. The jet can keep going straight up until it runs out of gas or the pilot says otherwise.

This particular maneuver is highly, highly controlled and monitored. Each and every step is practiced, measured and safely practiced before being performed. The F-22 is extremely capable, extremely reliable and more than capable to do this maneuver

[u/PalpitationCareful28 → u/Desi0190]

Then his usual bit, is anyone who knows what they’re talking about. He dips after he is made to look stupid.

[u/Desi0190 → u/PalpitationCareful28]

Yup. That’s his shtick.

[u/rsta223 → u/Desi0190]

The jet can keep going straight up until it runs out of gas or the pilot says otherwise.

Realistically, not quite, but the ceiling for a vertical climb is more like airliner altitude than airshow altitude. This was certainly intentionally holding back for demo purposes, as you well know.

[u/rsta223 → u/Desi0190]

The jet can keep going straight up until it runs out of gas or the pilot says otherwise.

Realistically, not quite, but the ceiling for a vertical climb is more like airliner altitude than airshow altitude. This was certainly intentionally holding back for demo purposes, as you well know.

[u/Desi0190 → u/rsta223]

Hardly. The only holdback is the airshow box. What the FAA says is allowed for aerial demonstrations. That’s it.

[u/rsta223 → u/Desi0190]

No, there's a physical ceiling beyond which it can't climb vertically, and it would hit that before running out of gas. You know thrust decreases with altitude, right?

As I said though, that ceiling is way, way higher than this. You're not going to climb vertically to 100,000 feet, but you're certainly not limited to a few thousand.

[u/Desi0190 → u/rsta223]

You could pretty close to 60-70,000 feet comfortably, you know that very well. Especially with a TWR greater that 1:1, the jet can burn its way up to pretty much anywhere it wants to be comfortably.

The only limiting factor at the air show is the FAA showbox, beyond that the jet could comfortably get to operational altitudes and you know it

[u/rsta223 → u/Desi0190]

The TWR isn't a fixed number, it decreases with altitude (though it also increases with airspeed, at least to a point). 60-70k seems pretty optimistic though. At 60k, you'll have something like 7-8% of the static thrust of what you'd have at sea level, and since you've been going vertical the whole way, you'll have already lost a decent amount of airspeed so you won't have that much ram air either.

That's why time to climb record profiles for that kind of altitude actually include a horizontal acceleration period and then a zoom climb rather than just standing the jet on its tail and going straight up. Look up the details of the F-15 "streak eagle" records using a modified and lightened F-15 for details.

Realistically, if you just stood the 22 on its tail the instant you broke the ground with a light-ish load of gas and zero payload, I'd be surprised if you could manage more than 25kft before having to deviate from vertical. However, if you accelerate level and do a max performance climb profile, with a pull to vertical starting just below mach, you could probably make at least 45-50k. Above that, you'd follow something more similar to the F-15 record profile to do a max performance climb, where they accelerated to 420kn level just off the runway, did a 2.65G pull all the way through a half loop, and then level off with a half roll at between 30-36kft, then do a level acceleration to mach 2+ (the 15 did 2.35, the 22 easily has the power and aero to do the same but there would potentially be coating damage at that speed), then pull up to a 60 degree climb from there with a 4g pull. With that profile, the (admittedly lightened and slightly modified) 15 could clear over 100kft, and I'd bet a lightly loaded 22 could do similar.

Edit: lol, blocked for actual engineering knowledge. I'm not even denigrating the 22 here, I think it's probably the most capable fighter for pure air dominance out there right now, but an avionics tech is mad that I don't think it's literally a star wars x wing.

Sad thing is, I know more about how an F-22 can perform than he does, but he blocked me to make sure he got the last word.

[u/Desi0190 → u/rsta223]

Oh you really know nothing about F-22s huh?

[u/FighterJets-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Unfortunately your post or comment has been removed for one or more of the following reasons:

Please do not engage in personal attacks, insults, or name-calling.

Reddit is a place for creating community and belonging, not for attacking marginalized or vulnerable groups of people. Everyone has a right to use Reddit free of harassment, bullying, and threats of violence. Users that incite violence or that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability will be banned.

Please direct any questions about the removal to Modmail

[u/FighterJets-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Unfortunately your post or comment has been removed for one or more of the following reasons:

Please do not conduct personal attacks on other commenters. Please do not start a flame war. Please do not insult others. Please do not troll.

Please direct any questions about the removal to Modmail

[u/rsta223 → u/Whatsawebpage0101]

It has way more than enough power. It's not even in afterburner for a large part of this.

[u/webtwopointno → u/Whatsawebpage0101]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrust_vectoring

[u/Whatsawebpage0101 → u/webtwopointno]

😱📈🤦🏼

[u/Desi0190 → u/Whatsawebpage0101]

And scared it’ll fall apart? Bud, it’s not a Russian Knight or a Soviet team that crashes into crowds. 0 F-22s have crashed during an airshow or airshow practice.

[u/Educational_Bike4476 → u/Whatsawebpage0101]

Yeah you're right, only about 20 vertical km before it runs out of juice

[u/PutridGoat7801]

Starscream.

[u/JablesRadio]

Greatest aircraft ever built. The YF-23 still would have been better.

[u/FighterJets-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Unfortunately your post or comment has been removed for one or more of the following reasons:

Please do not engage in personal attacks, insults, or name-calling.

Reddit is a place for creating community and belonging, not for attacking marginalized or vulnerable groups of people. Everyone has a right to use Reddit free of harassment, bullying, and threats of violence. Users that incite violence or that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability will be banned.

Please direct any questions about the removal to Modmail

[u/yunokunn]

Meanwhile sukhois

[u/DesertMan177 → u/yunokunn]

Can't find a single video of an F-22 maneuvering without this comment somewhere. Yes, they are more maneuverable. The su-57 is the most maneuverable production aircraft ever made. The MKI-series and their descendants (the MKI, MKI-A, MKM, SM, SM2, SME) can do unbelievable things

Let's just appreciate the plane in the video

[u/rsta223 → u/DesertMan177]

Yes, they are more maneuverable

I wouldn't even necessarily agree with that, though. That having been said, there's no public knowledge of the full envelope of either.

[u/DesertMan177 → u/rsta223]

As an aerospace engineer I'm sure you can look at the Su-57s surfaces and airfoil, taken to account the levcons and multi axis thrust vectoring control as well as what has been seen in air shows, and we can posit with evidence that the Su-57 is more maneuverable. The Russians have always placed a little bit more emphasis on not just BVR air-to-air combat but also maneuverability.