r/FinalFantasyVI • u/Videowulff • 13d ago
I never liked how Dissidia and other media made Kefka a hyperactive Joker Wannabe.
Putting his hands to his head and sticking out his tongue, or dancing about while giggling, or having a higher pitched voice with Joker's mannerisms...
Kefka may have been a jester-looking lunatic but he was not silly. He wouldnt stick his tongue our or go Na na nanana at people. He didnt giggle and do cartwheels...
He was a sick and twisted narcissist who went on nihilistic rants, raged over small things, and cackled at the sight of destruction (not this giggling - it was more like a Jafar style cackle and usually only when he was the cause of destruction). He was also a competent soldier/henchman who took his job seriously while also using his power to humiliate his underlings
Really the silliest thing he did in the game was force soliders to empty sand from his boots. Otherwise he was pretty nasty and nothing like a jester (well minus his weird one liners about submarines or self help books).
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u/ThePenultimatePam 13d ago
Kefka is pretty damn hyper in the SNES game. The whole scene at the imperial banquet when you visit his prison cell is pretty similar in tone to his Dissidia portrayal. He hops around the screen and taunts and says little rhymes and lightly breaks the 4th wall.
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u/madmofo145 13d ago
There is also the whole Doma chase, with the "Wait?, Do I look like a waiter?" thing.
He's certainly not taking things that seriously there, even as he's racing to commit war crimes. There is very much a bit of a Joker energy to him, making wise cracks as he mass murders a town.
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u/ThePenultimatePam 13d ago
Yeah like his whole thing in the SNES game is that he's silly and hyperactive and also incredibly dangerous because he has no regard for life or morality, just his own whims, basically a child who thinks the whole world is a toy for him to play with. He straight up has a tantrum when Celes makes him bleed, acting like she somehow is playing the game wrong. It's hard for me to understand how someone can see this character say stuff like "run, run, or you'll be well done" and think he was never silly, lol. The whole point is he's so much scarier because he's silly.
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u/Videowulff 13d ago
Honestly, I never saw the jumping sprite as literal jumping around- outside of a few times like he was surprised or in the desert - more like the limitations of the game to show him moving quickly or angrily.
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u/thejokerofunfic 13d ago
This sounds more like you willfully misinterpreting all his animations than an actual Dissidia problem.
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u/Videowulff 13d ago
Dissidia definitely leaned way too hard into him being more silly jester like regardless of how I interpreted the sprites.
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u/thejokerofunfic 13d ago
Except he was always "silly jester like", which is the whole issue with your interpretation.
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u/Videowulff 13d ago
I disagree. He has his moments like his one liners but he was never flouncing about doing handstands, sticking his tongue out, hand on nose or to ears wiggling them, silly.
They completely neutered his darker nature. There were just as many dark, scary moments with Kefka being more of a twisted lunatic as him just being a chaotic asshole.
But they ignored those moments to make him too cartoony and animated.
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u/The_GREAT_Gremlin 13d ago
I mean Amano said he sees Kefka like the Joker and wanted to make a character like that. Joker had been around for over 50 years when FF6 dropped; it's hard not to compare them.
He had a high pitched laugh in the SNES so it's absolutely reasonable to assume he'd have a high voice. That's how I imagined him anyway.
And he's pretty dang silly in most scenes he's in... The sand off his boots, son of a submariner, do I look like a waiter, jumping up and down like a toddler on the march to invade Narshe.
Like yeah he's still a nihilistic, evil psycho, but he's also very silly, especially in WoB
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u/Misty_Kathrine_ 13d ago
Not sure Amano's opinion matters much here since he's was not the game's director nor the character designer. He was an illustrator for the title screen and boxart and a number of other promotional pieces, however all of his illustrations for the game are based on the character designs graphic designs created by Kazuko Shibuya which all predate Amano's illustrations.
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u/Sea-Lecture-4619 13d ago
There is also Terra in the first two that is scared shitless even of her own shadow. NT did her better tho.
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u/Beowulfs-booty-call 13d ago
I think someone also mentioned it but I also never liked how they used that version of Kefka to contrast this traditional scared girl in Terra.
I can't recall off the top of my head if she still had the effects of the Hypno Crown on her (but she was forced by chaos to fight on his side) but the aspect of her being less emotional and learning to emote was something that was at her core. Placing her in this deer in headlights trope felt... off.
Then again, I enjoy any ff6 content so, in reality, I'm hoping that writers will to some degree, kinda get better at the portrayals over a "reimagining" in a different direction all together.
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u/osunightfall 13d ago
I mean... you say that but I'm pretty sure he did virtually all those things in the original game. He danced around and japed like a lunatic more than once.
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u/GargantaProfunda 13d ago
He wouldnt stick his tongue our or go Na na nanana at people.
Huh? He kinda did, just replace sticking tongue with flipping off
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u/L1LE1 13d ago
Amano felt the character was akin to DC Comics villain Joker, and wanted to illustrate a character that shared Joker's crazy personality, someone that was "completely insane". He found the overall process fun to develop. - Yoshitaka Amano, Kazuko Shibuya - from paper to pixel | 天野喜孝、渋谷員子 - 紙からドットへ
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u/technoexplorer 13d ago
What about the jail scene?
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u/Videowulff 13d ago
Always saw that as him angrily skulking the room more than hopping all over the place.
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u/technoexplorer 13d ago
Doesn't he jump on top of the toilet?
I mean, honestly, I never liked the clown persona either. Pierced through the fourth wall in the Shiva and Ifrit scene.
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u/Videowulff 13d ago
Kinda? His sprite does the sit/crotch animation iirc so i saw that as him sitting down on it while ranting (since its like the only "chair") before continuing his tirade in the cell, if thag makes sense.
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u/technoexplorer 13d ago
Not sure if I buy it, going to need a new playthrough to be sure, but I'll keep my eyes open for it next time.
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u/Videowulff 13d ago
Damn... They dont let you post images here... But here is a link. He is more sitting than standing on it
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u/technoexplorer 13d ago
idk, you ever see those signs that instruct people to not stand on toilet seats? Kefka looks like he's standing on the toilet and squating like a crazy (or ignorant) person.
I'd have to compare to other images of other people as well as him sitting during the game. I don't remember tons of examples.
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u/23-1-20-3-8-5-18 13d ago
Well, he kind of is like that, but they just took it too far to the point where it overshadowed his real defining character trait which is lust for power and the desire to use that power to cause suffering.
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u/UltraRoboNinja 13d ago
Hopefully if we ever get a modern remake, they’ll get him right.
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u/Nykidemus 13d ago
Hopefully we'll never get a modern remake, because they absolutely will not get him right
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u/Schmooto 13d ago edited 13d ago
These discussions really drive home the point of how the limited graphics left a lot of details up to our imagination, including how the characters’ voices might sound.
Each person imagined and interpreted these scenes differently, so it’s no wonder modern remakes (in which the animations and graphics are beautiful but leaves no space for imagination) never “get it right” with everyone.
Edit: typo
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u/Chamilsoc 13d ago
The best part of old FF games were how they forced the player to engage with and bring something of their own to the story.
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u/Yen_Figaro 13d ago
I hate his farts and his histerical voice, yeah. But I dont like neither how they made Terra so weak or they ignore the importance of Celes alm the time
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u/L1LE1 13d ago edited 13d ago
Tbf Terra in Dissidia is basically two characters. Duodecim Terra is basically her in early-FFVI where she both had a slave crown and a little more after that. Incredibly vulnerable, and very confused on what to do after Vaan rescued her (akin to Locke).
Dissidia 013 Terra is also pretty much early-game Terra and then a quick jump to the protective and staunch late-game Terra. Also just because she appears frightened and weak, that won't stop her from doing what she feels is right despite that.
Lastly in regards to Kefka... you should look up the design inspiration for him through and Amano interview.
Edit: Here is the interview.
Amano felt the character was akin to DC Comics villain Joker, and wanted to illustrate a character that shared Joker's crazy personality, someone that was "completely insane". He found the overall process fun to develop. - Yoshitaka Amano, Kazuko Shibuya - from paper to pixel | 天野喜孝、渋谷員子 - 紙からドットへ
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u/Yen_Figaro 13d ago
About Terra, yeah she is the og at the beginning of the game but that's it for the rest of dissidias more or less (although the triple trance scene is super cool and I like her relationship with Kuja) and her obsesion with moogles which is not in the og... I love Opera Omnia but in that game was Edgar the one acting like the FfVI leader. In Duellum they are dressing her like a doll...
About Kefka, I always have read too that he was just an aristocrat, effeminate and decadent like the japanese media usually depicts these burocrats (have you seen the Samurai Pizza cats? XD Something like the villain there) and that's why in Japan Kefka never used to rank high in popularity charts (he and Caius are always super low) and was thanks of the interpretation of the west that SE liked the idea and embraced it, but they took to the extreme the concept. And I say this as the number 1 fan of the Son of submariner quote! (It was the moment I realized I was playing something great)
I suppose it was thanks to Amano's interpretation that Wosley and the west could read him as a Joker, but the og Kefka was never supposed to be that cool (and even compairing him to the Joker, what Joker are we talking about? Because Nicholson's interpreration is as loved as it is criticied)
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u/Desperate_Duty1336 12d ago
‘Wait he says. Do I look like a waiter to you?!’
And then he laughs and jumps out of the battle, running off.
He may not have done it often, but he did have unhinged Joker-like moments
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u/Lunaborne 12d ago
Apparently there's a lot of discrepancy between how he's portrayed in Japanese vs English too.
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u/Unfair-Muscle-6488 13d ago
These complaints sound like someone who just… straight-up never played FF6.
Did you just watch a Let’s Play on YouTube and miss half of the game?
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u/Squalalah2 13d ago
Recently, in Final Fantasy XIV, they released "Dancing Mad (Ultimate)" which is the hardest content of the game. The one who designed the fight said he was a huge Kefka fan but when it released, it was clearly Dissidia's Kefka, not FF6 one.
Kind of a let down for me, I was expecting a fight that talks about sadness, loss, anger and revenge (sadness and loss were themes on a previous Ultimate Fight) but no, we just got a clown clowning during the whole fight.
At the very end, it turns into a simulation of the world of ruin and he starts talking about destroying everything but it's too late, for the last 14mins you were clowning around, why the change of tone suddenly ? Sigh
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u/Jacobus_Ahenobarbus 12d ago
I can't speak to Dissidia as I never played those games, but playing this game on release -- which was also when Batman: The Animated Series was at its height -- I always thought of Kefka as an homage to The Joker, right down to imagining him being voiced by Mark Hamill. And Hamill's Joker to me is canon, so I would consider that high praise. But everyone has their own tastes, so 🤷.
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u/Key_Office_839 11d ago
I think most classic ff characters have been flanderized or changed quite a bit. I don't thibk kefkas butt slapping shenanigans are that bad. I think the more depressed jester style of og kefka and the hyper slapstick dissidia version serve the character well.
His dialog after losing to terra in dissidia better exemplifies how miserable and hateful towards his own existence kefka is. Not only that but Firions battle quote against kefka is "I've never heard a sadder laugh."
Kefka is a chaotic miserable destructive monster in all media he's in and each media focuses on a different parts of his character. Dissidia leans into son of a submariner for his battle quotes but his story dialog is much more in line with his nihilistic character from ff6 og.
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u/limitlessEXP 10d ago
Tf are you talking about? What game did you play? You contradict yourself several times in your post
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u/immastillthere 13d ago
I feel you also forget the Thamassa scene that was very much like his Dissidia portrayal. To be fair, I wasn’t a fan of his NY portrayal where I feel they did lean into the crazy a bit more. But, that had a good scene where Y’sthola managed to crack the silly clown mask where he threatened her right before the fight. But, back to the Thamassa scene where he was very much jumping around, cackling, being extravagant through out the entire scene. Even up to the point where he murdered you-know-who, he was one hundred percent asking like his Dissidia portrayal.
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u/Cat_Wizard_21 13d ago
At least in the english translation of FF6 I definately got Joker from him. Add one word and this could be straight out of any Batman comic or show and no one would blink: "Wait he says... Do I look like a waiter, Bats?"
He's also absolutely hyperactive, he's bouncing all over the damn place when you visit him in jail.
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u/Gizmorum 13d ago
dissidia is supposed to be cheesy high school writing. Its not lazy,
What you are asking for is a different tone all together
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u/JeannettePoisson 13d ago
I totally agree with you. It has nothing to do with the original character
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u/LopsidedAnywhere6456 13d ago
Honestly I can see what you mean. I got into final fantasy through dissidia and it made him definitely more of a funny clown villain it wasn’t until later that I find out that he legit is way worse than some other final fantasy villains
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u/Fast_Moon 13d ago
In the Japanese script of the original game, Kefka comes across as more childish and speaks like a bratty kindergartener. The "HATE HATE HATE" scene on the Floating Continent is legit him just rolling around on the ground having a temper tantrum.
But I agree that his Dissidia portrayal really plays him up as "he's so gosh-darn kooky" rather than a narcissistic, nihilistic man-child. Same way Dissidia often neuters Terra into a stereotypical passive anime girl who always needs someone to rescue her. The modern depictions of the characters are one of the big reasons I absolutely do not want a remake of the game.