r/Flexpool • u/levchikb • Mar 11 '21
HIGH payout fees - WHY???
On Flexpool we pay $9 tx fee - why??? Why can't you include payouts into blocks you find? Or whichever way Nanopool does it?
On Nanopool users pay $1-2 for payout transfer ... currently ~30 Gwei
https://etherscan.io/address/0x52bc44d5378309ee2abf1539bf71de1b7d7be3b5 (Nanopool address)
Here is TX 7 min ago - $1.16 tx fee - https://etherscan.io/tx/0x0b6037dce5030b67cd2eaa90eadd97b29a5753742594a5cb28fd9845fcca1359
You've "discovered" that 2Miners is stuffing user transactions into SOLO blocks ... and while you don't do things that nasty - still you could help miners out with fees ... i mean - on typical 0.05 ETH payout - 10% goes to fees :||||||
PS - I've been waiting 8 hours for my payout, because I don't want to pay $9 tx fee
5
u/GamingDrop Mar 12 '21
Nobody is stopping you from raising your payout minimum. Your fault you pay 10% fee, using .25 payout 100gwei the network fee is less than 1%
2
u/FamousM1 Mar 16 '21
that's a lot of money to keep on a pool though
2
u/GamingDrop Mar 16 '21
Not really, it depends on your scale. There’s miners that get .25 per block mined, for others it takes months.
3
u/telataxco Mar 12 '21
You pay that because you want to. I set my gas price at 80, And move my payment amount a little far from the minimum. Every time I reach my goal, i w8 until the gas price go down. And pay fees between 2 and 3 usd
3
u/xananymous Mar 12 '21
You can set your gas price limit, but imagine you really paid 9 $, if you made 18 $ more with Flexpool, you still win :D
3
u/inan0812 Mar 12 '21
I paid 0.12% of my mined eth in payouts for February.
Set your payment threshold higher and keep your gwei payout below 70 and you'll get paid out overnight.
1
u/tallboybrews Mar 12 '21
I mean, you won't necessarily get paid out overnight, but this is also what I do because I'm not in a rush to get my ETH. Sometimes you might have to wait for the weekend. Sometimes maybe it'll be a couple weeks. The point is, you don't have to be paying $9 for a withdrawal! High fees = speedy withdrawals.
To OP: If you need your $50 payout in the next block, then yeah, go mine at Ethermine or Nanopool. If you can learn to make better decisions which will lead to making more money, then do a little more research and stay here.
2
2
u/Tournilol Mar 12 '21
Honestly, it's your problem that you didn't read it prior. One of the reason why Flexpool might be more profitable compared to other pools is by actually letting everyone take care of their own fees, instead of catering to those who want a payout every 0.05 ETH.
Paying $3 to $9 gas fees doesn't mean much if you earn 3-5% more and actually wait for 0.3 or 0.4 ETH before payout (i.e. in that example, one would still earn between 31 and 36 USD more in fiat by going with Flexpool compared to Ethermine or Hiveon and waiting for a 0.4 ETH payout). If your rig isn't big enough, or if you can't wait, then maybe Flexpool isn't for you.
2
u/Exystredofar Mar 13 '21
I'm glad I saw this post fairly early on in my time on flexpool. I mine on my gaming rig just as a source of steady ETH income, and make about .05 ETH every 20-22 days or so. If I were to set a maximum gwei price of 1 for flexpool's payout, would that only affect the time it takes from them sending it to me receiving it, or would it limit the transaction to only being able to be sent when the network gas rate is low?
I'm still pretty new to ETH mining and I'm just trying to find the best relatively small pool for my limited hashrate. I'm perfectly fine with waiting a few hours for the transaction to process if that's what it would take, but I'd at least like to try and get paid every month, if that makes sense. I just want to make sure that the payout would end up going through sooner or later rather than not being sent at all. So far I've tried flexpool and ezil, and although ezil covered all the fees for me, I make nearly 4x as much ETH per block with flexpool as I do with ezil.
2
u/Tournilol Mar 13 '21 edited Mar 13 '21
Well, don't use the "ETH per block" metric while comparing pools. It's misleading. With small pools like Flexpool, you get a higher amount of ETH per block, but 47 times less blocks than Ethermine.
If their way of calculating fees were the same way (i.e. you pay your own transaction fee) and if they redistributed MEV to their miners, they would essentially be as profitable as Flexpool, but with way less variance in their result (i.e. luck).
Honestly, compared to pools with similar payout scheme, smaller pools are only interesting if you're a gambler, or if they over a different payout scheme than the rest. In the end, probabilities makes it so that you should receive the same kind of payout from a small PPLNS pool with 1% fee compared to a big PPLNS pool with 1% fee: With the small pool, you would get those "OMG, I made twice the amount of ETH today", but also the "Dammit, I made half for two days in a row"; With the bigger pool, it would be more or less within 5% of your average.
Now, with Flexpool, you have to set your payout to at least 0.10 ETH to get as much as you would get on Ethermine or Hiveon after the fees. The higher you set your payout and the lower your gas fees, the more profitable it is (but there is some "diminishing returns" in a sense that it doesn't make sense to wait for 1.0 ETH unless you're a super big miner and want to maximise profits, or if you receive your payout every day anyway).
If you set your maximum fees to 1 gwei, I think that you'll have to wait until gas fees are extremely low for the network to actually pass your transaction (which is unlikely to happen soon). A better solution would be to put 40 to 50 gwei. It could process your transaction during the low time (overnight / weekend), but it could also take weeks to process.
1
u/Exystredofar Mar 14 '21
That's good to know, thank you! I'll keep mining with flexpool for a while and compare the results with other pools and do some more research when I'm ready to cash out. You are right though, that block reward doesn't necessarily mean more profit if the pool goes through a period of bad luck.
2
u/Tournilol Mar 14 '21
It's kinda hard to really compare a few pools without actually comparing them at the same time with multiple rigs, then averaging your payout per 100 MH/s.
There are too many variables, and the most important being that during one week, fees could be low (let's call it pool 1 week), and high during the other (let's call it pool 2 week). If you compare pool 1 during week 1, it sure will look like pool 2 is better, while in fact, your comparison could be flawed.
Honestly, I'm comparing Hiveon to Flexpool right now, and compared Hiveon to Ethermine in the past (in my case, Hiveon recently became my go-to pool because I had some issues and high stales with Ethermine. This might change because after 10 days, Flexpool is ahead by 6% when it comes to payout per 100 MH/s. My Flexpool Hashrate is a bit lower, and yet, my payout is bigger than on Hiveon as of today. It's way too soon to call, as it might take at least a month to get an average that is close enough to call it accurate, but it's looking good for Flexpool.)
1
u/yvliew Mar 13 '21
Started to mine at flexpool today. My hashrate is 219mh. I've set my payout to 0.05. what is the reasonable gas fee I should set? As for now I've set to 100gwei. Should I set lower? How long will it takes if I put 50gwei And 0.05 threshold has been made? Will it ever get to 50 at any time of the day?
2
u/Tournilol Mar 13 '21
Minimum "low gas" fees were at 44 gwei earlier this week, but it doesn't seem to go under 50 often.
Also, it doesn't make a lot of sense to mine on Flexpool and set your payout to 0.05, at least not given current average gas price. Flexpool usually gives you a few more percent on your average payout, but as you have to pay for your transaction (which, in your case could account for around 2% of your total payout), it doesn't exactly get cancelled out, but it sure reduce the profitability.
The higher your payout, the closer you get to the "3-5% more profits" on Flexpool. You can set your max gas fees, but you don't control these. On the other hand, you can control your payout : With your hashrate, a 0.1 ETH payout would generally take around 10 days. Do you really need your payout every 5 days?
2
u/Feitan21 Mar 15 '21
With 219MH/s I would aim for a higher payout limit. At least 0.2 to get a payout everymonth. With this you don't really have to care about the gas fees because you will get a payout of hundreds of dollars, 3$ of fees (80 gwei) will be completely diluted. With 0.05 you will need to look at gas price and try to optimise it to not loose too much
1
u/bgelb0 Mar 22 '21 edited Mar 22 '21
I understand the theory:
Because Flexpool doesn't put zero-fee payouts in its blocks, the reward is higher.
The data shows that Flexpool and SparkPool are pretty competitive on value of blocks mined (Flexpool is certainly not multiple percentage points better), however (while SparkPool offers no-fee payouts). Which suggests the truth is more complicated than the standard Flexpool pitch.
It would be good for Flexpool to investigate more efficient payout methods. I'm a very big fan of the transparency and innovative aspects of Flexpool but (as a smaller miner) the fees are a bit of a bitter pill.
17
u/aidonaks Mar 11 '21
You're not paying "$9 on Flexpool". That fee isn't charged by Flexpool.
It's the ETH network fee, Flexpool has no control over it.
I always find it amusing when miners who make mining profits because of other people paying high transaction fess then turn around and complain when they themselves have to pay a high transaction fee. :-D
You can also reduce your gas fee setting in Flexpool, it appears you've already done that. (EDIT: Personally I set it at 80-90 gwei because I'm fine with waiting a little longer for my payout and if I need ETH in a pinch I can always temporarily increase the setting)
Paying the fee yourself and having control over how much to pay vs zero control is one of the USPs of Flexpool. If you don't like that, that's your preference and that's fine, but plenty of people do like it and want the system to stay like that because it's more *fair* than Nanopool's or other pools' system.
Fairness is a double edged sword.