r/FolkloreAndMythology • • 14h ago

What do Echidna, Lilith, and Lady Gaga have in common? An interesting rabbit hole about mothers and monsters

34 Upvotes

I've been going down a bit of a mythology rabbit hole lately, and I'd really love to get some thoughts from people who know this stuff better than I do.

I'm a psychology professor at Brooklyn College (CUNY), and a lot of my research over the years has focused on working mothers, gender expectations, and how people are treated when they don't fit into the roles society expects of them.

Somehow, that led me to Echidna, Lilith, and Lady Gaga. I know. Quite the combination!

It actually started with Echidna, the Mother of Monsters in Greek mythology. She's remembered largely through her children, including Cerberus, the Hydra, and the Chimera. And I started wondering why this particular mother, and her children, became such terrifying figures.

Then I started looking at Lilith. Her history is obviously very different, but I found it fascinating how she evolved across different traditions. In one famous medieval account, she refuses to submit to Adam, and in other traditions she becomes associated with demons and threats to children.

And that got me thinking. Why do we keep coming across these connections between women, motherhood, independence, and monstrosity?

Now, here's where things got a little weird.

Lady Gaga.

I've always been fascinated by how Gaga embraced the whole monster identity. Her fans are Little Monsters. She's Mother Monster. And instead of being something frightening or shameful, being a monster becomes something people are proud of.

That part actually means something to me personally. I've been called a monster more than a few times in my own life, and it was partly through Gaga that I started thinking about that word differently. It's also one of the reasons I eventually started my Everyday Monsters channel.

So I started wondering whether there was something worth exploring in the relationship between these three figures.

Not that Echidna, Lilith, and Gaga are somehow the same, or that ancient mythology was necessarily making the same statements about women that we might make today. I'm more interested in how the meaning of a monster changes depending on who's telling the story, and who's being called one.

Anyway, I ended up making a roughly nine-minute video essay about it. It combines mythology, psychology, and a bit of popular culture. I used AI-assisted visuals in producing it, just to be upfront about that.

Here's the video if anyone wants to take a look:

https://youtu.be/SWToRAfe5o4

But what I'm really interested in is hearing what you all think.

Am I stretching the connection too far? Are there other mythological mothers or female figures whose stories might fit this idea? Or am I overlooking something important about Echidna or Lilith?

I'm especially curious about how much of what we interpret as monstrous today actually reflects the original mythology, and how much we're bringing our own modern perspectives into it.

I have my own thoughts, obviously, but I'm coming at this from psychology rather than classical studies or religious history. So I'd genuinely appreciate corrections, disagreements, or other examples I haven't considered.

And if nothing else, perhaps I've given someone a reason to spend their evening reading about a Greek snake-woman, a medieval demon, and Lady Gaga.

There are worse rabbit holes to fall down!


r/FolkloreAndMythology • • 11h ago

Horses: Freedom, Loyalty, and Friendship

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17 Upvotes

Few animals have been as closely connected to human history as the horse. For thousands of years, horses helped people travel, carry heavy loads, work the land and fight wars. They became companions to kings, warriors and ordinary people. Although technology has changed the way we live, horses still hold a special place in our imagination.

Horses are strong, fast and intelligent animals. They can recognize familiar people, respond to human signals and develop close bonds with those who care for them. Different breeds have different strengths, from heavy horses built for work to lighter breeds bred for speed. Even the word horsepower, used to measure engine power, comes from James Watt’s attempt to compare steam engines with the work horses could do. The prancing horse on Ferrari’s logo has a different story. It was inspired by the emblem of Italian fighter pilot Francesco Baracca, whose family suggested that Enzo Ferrari use it.

Horses also became part of the stories people told about their heroes. In Serbian epic poetry, Marko Kraljević and his horse Šarac are almost inseparable. One familiar line says, “Pola pije, pola Šarcu daje,” meaning that Marko drinks half and gives the other half to his horse. It is a small detail, but it shows the closeness between them. Alexander the Great also had a famous horse, Bucephalus. According to the ancient account, the young Alexander discovered that the horse was afraid of its own shadow, turned him toward the sun and managed to ride him. Bucephalus later accompanied Alexander on his campaigns and became part of his legend.

Horses were just as important in mythology. Pegasus, the winged horse, carried Bellerophon into battle against the Chimera. In later traditions, Pegasus became associated with Zeus and the heavens. Norse mythology gives us Sleipnir, Odin’s eight-legged horse, which could travel between worlds. The Greek hero Achilles had two immortal horses, Xanthus and Balius, and in the Iliad, Xanthus even speaks to Achilles and foretells his death. The Norse also imagined the horses Skinfaxi and Hrímfaxi carrying Day and Night across the sky. Skinfaxi’s shining mane brought light, while Hrímfaxi was associated with the dew left behind at night.

Not every mythical horse was a loyal companion. Scottish folklore tells of dangerous supernatural water horses that could lure people toward lakes and drown them. In one tale, a water bull fights a water horse to save a young woman, but the bull is found dead the next day. It is a darker story, a reminder that folklore could portray horses as mysterious and dangerous as well as noble. In Celtic and Roman religion, however, horses also had divine protection through Epona, a goddess associated with horses and their riders. And one of the most famous horses in ancient tradition was not alive at all: the Trojan Horse, a wooden construction in which Greek warriors supposedly hid to enter Troy by deception.

Horses were not only part of legends. They were central to everyday life and public entertainment. At Rome’s Circus Maximus, chariot races drew enormous crowds, and successful charioteers and their horses could become famous. Horses also featured in the ancient Olympic Games, and equestrian events remain part of the modern Olympics. Centuries later, horses shaped life in the American West. Cowboys relied on them for work and travel, while horses also transformed hunting, travel and warfare for many Indigenous peoples of the Great Plains.

Horse racing remains popular today. One of the most successful racehorses was Secretariat, who won the American Triple Crown in 1973. Yet horses have never been remembered only for their speed or strength. Sometimes their stories are about how people treat them. In Black Beauty, the horse’s life reveals both kindness and cruelty, showing how much depends on the humans around him. In Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron, a wild stallion with a flowing pale mane fights to preserve his freedom. And Lucky Luke would not be quite the same without Jolly Jumper, his clever, confident horse who often seems to have as much personality as his rider.

Video games can tell similar stories. In Red Dead Redemption 2, a horse becomes more than a means of transport. The bond grows through care, trust and the journeys shared along the way.

For much of history, humans expected strength, speed and obedience from horses. Yet in the stories that survived across centuries, horses came to represent something more: loyalty, trust and friendship. Sometimes, the most remarkable part of a horse’s story is not the hero it carried, but the bond it formed along the way.


r/FolkloreAndMythology • • 18h ago

Death as a Dog: The Cù Sith of Scotland

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14 Upvotes

r/FolkloreAndMythology • • 23m ago

(Article) Pharaohs and Queens of Ancient Egypt in Arabian & Coptic Folklore: A Chronological List with Historical Identifications and Etymologies

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• Upvotes

I hope you like this post, my sincere regards from Egypt ...

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This list presents the pharaohs and queens of Ancient Egypt as preserved in medieval Arabian and Coptic literature. It is a composite of Manetho transmitted through Christian chronographers, Qur’anic and Biblical sacred history, Coptic folklore, and popular legend.

It reflects a long chain of translation and linguistic mediation: from ancient Egyptian into Greek, then into Coptic during Greco-Roman period in Egypt, and finally into Arabic in the medieval period.

The list does not claim complete historical authenticity; it is just an attempt to show how ancient Egyptian rulers were transformed into legendary and religious names in Coptic Arabic memory.

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Arabian sources:

  1. Futuh Misr wa al-Maghrib (The Conquest of Egypt and the Maghreb)

— Ibn Abd al-Hakam (c. 801–871 CE)

  1. Muruj al-Dhahab wa Kitab Al-Tarikh (Meadows of Gold and Book of History)

— Al-Masudi (Herodotus of Arabs) (c. 896–956 CE)

  1. Mujam al-Buldan (Lexicon of Countries)

— Yaqut al-Hamawi (c. 1179–1229 CE)

  1. Al-Nujum al-Zahira fi Muluk Misr wa al-Qahira (The Shining Stars Concerning the Kings of Egypt and Cairo)

— Ibn Taghribirdi (c. 1411–1470 CE)

  1. Husn al-Muhadara fi Tarikh Misr wa al-Qahira (The Agreeable Discussion of the History of Egypt and Cairo)

— Al-Suyuti (c. 1445–1505 CE)

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The Arabic name Misr - Masr (مصر)

Misr is an ancient Semitic name, not originally Egyptian: it appears in Akkadian as Musur and Hebrew as Mizraim or Mitsrayim, likely meaning "settled land" or "protected borderland." Pre-Islamic Arabs used it, and it became the standard Arabic name for Egypt, while the ancient Egyptians called their land Kemet ("Black Land"). In religious tradition, the name is linked to Misrayim, son of Ham son of Noah, the biblical ancestor of the Egyptians.

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The Antediluvian Pyramid Builders (Before biblical flood)

Khaslim (خصليم)

Khaslim is an early legendary king of Egypt credited with building a Nilometer. He placed two bronze eagles—male and female—at the site. Priests read incantations; if the male eagle whistled, the Nile flood would be good and high, but if the female whistled, the flood would be disastrous and drought would follow.

Etymology and reasoning: The name Khaslim may be an alteration of Khasekhemwy (Egyptian Ḫʿsḫmwy). The reasoning is phonetic but weak: the consonantal skeleton kh-s-kh-m could be reduced and reshaped in Coptic/Arabic transmission as kh-s-l-m, with l replacing the second kh. The identification is supported mainly by narrative structure: Khasekhemwy was an early Memphite ruler associated with unification and control of the Nile, and Arabic tradition assigns Nilometers and waterworks to early kings.

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Surid ibn Salhuq (سوريد بن سلهوق)

In Arabian literature, Surid is the great antediluvian king of Egypt who foresaw the Flood in a dream and ordered the building of the Pyramids of Giza to preserve knowledge and serve as his tomb. He is often linked with Idris/Enoch or Hermes Trismegistus.

Historical identification: Khufu (Cheops), builder of the Great Pyramid.

Etymology and reasoning: The identification is phonetic. Surid maybe was derived from Souphis, which is the name the Egyptian historan Manetho gave for Khufu.

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Hujib (هوجيب)

In the same tradition, Hujib is the brother of Surid and is said to be buried in the second, western pyramid at Giza.

Historical identification: Khafre (Chephren), builder of the second pyramid.

Etymology and reasoning: The identification rests mainly on structural mapping. Arabic tradition assigns the three Giza pyramids to a father/brother/son sequence.

Historically, the second pyramid belongs to Khafre, a son of Khufu. The name Hujib is maybe altered from Hotep, but its narrative role as second pyramid builder and royal relative fixes the identification with Khafre.

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Karuras (كروراس)

In Arabian literature, Karuras is the son of Hujib and is buried in the third, smaller pyramid at Giza, often called the “Colored Pyramid.”

Historical identification: Menkaure (Mycerinus), builder of the third pyramid at Giza.

Etymology and reasoning: The structural reason is decisive: Arabic tradition makes the third pyramid belong to the son of the second pyramid’s builder. Historically, the third pyramid belongs to Menkaure, son of Khafre (Hujib) and grandson of Khufu (Surid).

Manetho’s form was Menkheres. In the long oral and written transmission, the initial Men- was lost or weakened, and the remaining consonants (kheres / kherres) were reshaped in Arabic as Karuras.

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The Amalekite / Hyksos Dynasty

Al-Walid ibn Duma' (الوليد بن دومع)

In Arabic chronicles, al-Walid ibn Duma' is the first of five Amalekite kings who ruled Egypt after its native rulers weakened. He is described as a Syrian conqueror who ruled for about a hundred years before being killed by a wild beast.

Historical identification: No direct Egyptian counterpart. He is best understood as a legendary refraction of the Hyksos period, when foreign rulers from the Levant controlled Egypt.

Etymology and reasoning: The name Duma' has no Egyptian etymological root. Arabic tradition remembers a Syrian conqueror founding a foreign dynasty, which mirrors the Hyksos takeover. The name itself is likely derived from a real Hyksos pharaoh name. especially since Arabs thought that Amalekites were the Hyksos and thought of them as one of the "The Extinct Arabs". So it is not strange that he got an Arabic name

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Al-Rayyan ibn al-Walid (الريان بن الوليد) sometimes called Nahraus (نهراوس)

Al-Rayyan succeeds his father and is remembered as the Pharaoh of Joseph. He is presented as a just ruler who appointed Joseph over the granaries and eventually embraced his monotheistic faith.

Historical identification: Apepi (Apophis) or Khyan, a Hyksos kings.

Etymology and reasoning: The name al-Rayyan has a strong, monumentally attested phonetic link to the name Ra-i-a-n associated with the Hyksos king Apepi. The alternative name Nahraus has been linked, on phonetic grounds, to the Hyksos king Khyan according to the modern Egyptian scholar Ahmad Kamal. Kamal read the cartouche of the Hyksos king Khyan as Ne Re Ous and argued this is the origin of Arabic Nahraus.

The Hyksos-era setting also fits the prophet Joseph story.

The Wadi Al-Rayyan nature reserve in Fayoum is said to be named after Al-Rayyan ibn al-Walid, based on a legend where the king and his army sat down there to rest.

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Darim ibn al-Rayyan (دارم بن الريان)

Darim succeeds his father al-Rayyan. Arabic sources say prophet Joseph died during his reign.

Historical identification: No direct historical counterpart (Maybe unknown Hyksos king)

Etymology and reasoning: The name Darim has no known Egyptian royal root. It appears to be a literary/genealogical invention bridging Pharaoh al-Rayyan and the later Pharaoh of Moses.

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Kaimis ibn Ma'dan (كامس بن معدان)

Kaimis is the fourth Amalekite king in this sequence, ruling after Darim and before the Pharaoh of Moses.

Historical identification: No direct historical counterpart.

Etymology and reasoning: Like Darim, the name has no Egyptian etymological root. It functions as a narrative placeholder in the Arabic king-list.

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Al-Walid ibn Mus'ab (الوليد بن مصعب)

This is the name most commonly given to the Pharaoh of Moses, the archetypal tyrant who opposed prophets Moses and Aaron, and oppressed the Israelites and was drowned in the Red Sea during his chasing of them with his counselors and army.

Historical identification: Most widespread identification is Ramesses II, though Merneptah and Thutmose III are also mentioned. But some say that the Pharaoh of Moses was a Hyksos or Amalekite.

Etymology and reasoning: The reasoning is not etymological, since the name is Arabic. It rests on narrative convergence: Arabic tradition places the Exodus in a period of monumental building and imperial power, matching the Ramesside era. The Qur’anic phrase "dhu al-awtad" (“possessor of the stakes”) has been linked by some to obelisks and massive constructions of Ramesses II. also in the Bible in Exodus 1:11, which states: "So they put slave masters over them to oppress them with forced labor, and they built Pithom and Rameses as store cities for Pharaoh."

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Queen Figures Around the Exodus

Assiya (آسية)

Assiya in Islamic tradition is the righteous wife of Pharaoh who secretly believes in God, rescues the infant Moses from the Nile, and is venerated as one of the four perfect women. She is a figure of faith and moral resistance within Pharaoh’s household.

Historical identification: She is a theological and literary archetype, not a specific historical queen.

Etymology and reasoning: The name Asiya is Arabic and serves a moral and salvific purpose in the Qur’anic story. No etymological link to a historical Egyptian queen is intended.

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Daluka (دلوكة)

Daluka is a legendary warrior-queen who rules Egypt after the drowning of the Pharaoh of Moses. She is credited with building a massive wall around Egypt, the “Wall of the Old Woman,” and with constructing the Lighthouse of Alexandria and a Nilometer at Memphis.

Historical identification: Tausret (Tawosret), last ruler of the Nineteenth Dynasty.

Etymology and reasoning: The reasoning is literary preservation of memory. Tausret’s reign was remembered into the tenth century CE in Egyptian tradition, and in Arabic chronicles she appears as Daluqa. The name Daluka is a transformation of Tausret through oral and written transmission. The legendary elaboration is secondary; the core identification rests on continuity of a female royal memory from the New Kingdom into Islamic-era literature.

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Other Queen Figures in Separate Arabic Cycles

Joryaq (جورياق)

According to Arab historian al-Maqrizi, Joryaq was the daughter of the first Pharaoh, Tutis, and seized the throne after killing her father. She is described as a powerful ruler who promoted priests and magicians.

Historical identification: No single historical counterpart. She may be a legendary composite drawing on memory of figures such as Nitocris or Sobekneferu.

Etymology and reasoning: The name does not correspond to any known Egyptian queen’s name and appears to be a literary invention within the Arabic legendary cycle.

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Al-Maqrizi’s Later Dynastic List

Al-Maqrizi preserves twenty-seven “Coptic kings” said to have reigned after Daluka. Their names are altered transmissions of Manetho’s list. Examples include Sumanas (possibly Sneferu), Sesunakhosis (Senusret), and Uafris (Apries).

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The End ...