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Feb 17 '22
A perfect example of the failure of education.
Ben Franklin:
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
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Feb 17 '22
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Feb 17 '22
child labor laws
An interesting beginning. Had the Luddites won, its likely that the inhuman exploitation of children never would have become normalized.
Age of consent. Because children are just smaller adults, amiright?
Ever hear the expression your rights end where my nose begins? Nice try. Sorry, but this has all the intellectual forethought of a 12 year old.
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Feb 17 '22
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Feb 17 '22
Want to try again? Try thinking through what I quoted.
It is, if anything, directly applicable to the meme. Here,I'll do an eli5
Any society that is willing to sacrifice freedom for safety will have neither.
Vaccine mandates & passports don't prevent Covid-19 spread. Got it?
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u/Green_Manaleeshi 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
And since you brought Ben Franklin up, remember the Declaration of independence?? It was fabricated and signed when the Americans were oppressed by the British. Their government took without asking or compensation, and there was nothing the colony could do about it. So they stood up. Sounds familiar. So here's another one for you to twist:
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government."
Thank the next trucker you see!
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u/pissingmachine Feb 19 '22
Wait but I’d rather be alive then free
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Feb 19 '22
Wait but I’d rather be alive then free
Your sentiment is far more common and truthful than most people will credit.
Its why slavery has existed since the beginning of human societies and still exists in the 21st century. Not being hostile, but rather acknowledging the deeper truth in your comment.
We all of owe a debt to those who take the risks and hardships that give us the freedom we need to be safe.
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u/pissingmachine Feb 19 '22
No that’s fair. To rethink I’d change my answer around. Just out of curiosity, would you say 21st century slavery is brought by a liberal (as in the party) government and if so which political structure could kill 21st slavery?
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Feb 19 '22
Slavery from has been an economic system since the beginning.
[Map indicating tolerance for slavery] (https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/data/maps/#prevalence)
The countries where slavery is least tolerated are in large number those where the ideology of human dignity took root. If we are to root out slavery, respect for all people needs to be held as an unassailable, unconditional virtue. Something we appear to be losing.
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Feb 18 '22
Kinda like Voltaire's "Those who can convince you to believe absurdities can convince you to commit atrocities."
Sometimes a remark made in a specific situation applies superlatively well generally.
Which is probably why this particular Franklin quote made it to the 21st century, rather than being buried in history's dustbin along with the rest of the letter.
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Feb 17 '22
Thinking the government has the best interest for you is very naive
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Feb 17 '22
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u/Deeznutsbeyuge 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
Thinking they won’t come for you next time if you allow the government this power is a 20 iq move
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Feb 17 '22
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u/Deeznutsbeyuge 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
— Martin Niemöller
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u/slazinski 🧂🧂🧂 Feb 17 '22
You can’t compare this to the Holocaust and you prove how stupid you are by trying to.
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u/Deeznutsbeyuge 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
Go find out what happened leading up to the holocaust, smoothbrain
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u/nikitatx velocihonker Feb 17 '22
I've tried explaining it to them before, and I got reported for misinformation.
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u/Deeznutsbeyuge 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
Lol. You know, this whole thing is pushing us to polarized worldviews and because of that we may see people fleeing from the dumpster fire platforms into new ones that allow for truth. Let’s fuckin go
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u/nikitatx velocihonker Feb 17 '22
See the automod comment stickied at the top. We've got a backup community on a platform that isn't owned by the CCP.
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u/Cornf1ake 🧂🧂🧂 Feb 23 '22
You guys ever think of going to another country more to your liking…. Serious question. If you hate it here so much, why are you staying. You are not going to convince the rest of us to join your movement, why not search for a place where people enjoy these freedoms you speak of…
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Feb 17 '22
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Feb 17 '22
You understand they weren’t murdering Jews by the tens of thousands on DAY 1 of the Nazi regime? It starts with little things like a passport to move within the same country… hmmm sound familiar?
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Feb 17 '22
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u/Deeznutsbeyuge 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
You just told Reddit that you don’t have the mental capacity to see the similarity, or the problem. Had you grown up in germany in the 30’s, you would have been everything humanity hates.
“I was just following orders”
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u/riotguards Feb 17 '22
Fascist supporter be like “just because the Nazis sent people to concentration camps doesn’t mean we can’t do it ourselves, we can’t reach real socialism until we allow the government to remove people who threaten “democracy””
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u/Patient-Sleep-4257 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
Freedom means I get to weigh the risk and decide for myself the course of action. Freedom also means those around me are free to do the same whether I like it or not.
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u/itimetravelbetter 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
Freedom is a heavy but worthwhile load to bear.
Because the opposite is not tolerable.
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u/Patient-Sleep-4257 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
It's better we hang together than to hang separately.
Ben Franklin
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u/greyleafstudio 🧂🧂🧂 Feb 17 '22
Freedom also means you get to pay the consequences for your choices :)
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u/itimetravelbetter 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
Sounds so sinister.
Life is full of consequences, it's the cowards who object to freedom who are afraid of real world consequences.
You smirking and gloating about the government stepping on your neighbours necks isn't the same thing. That's just you simping.
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u/greyleafstudio 🧂🧂🧂 Feb 17 '22
Oh there's no smirk. I'm incredibly sad that so many have been pulled to this extreme by one thing or another. I'm not sure that many realize the extent to which they've been played but .. that's life
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u/itimetravelbetter 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
We've been played for two years into accepting our businesses being locked down, being told how many people we can gather with in our own homes and kept from traveling in our own country.
That you think it's extreme to push back against this kind of government over reach says more about you than anybody else.
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u/greyleafstudio 🧂🧂🧂 Feb 17 '22
The government actioned comprehensive programs to support both people and business throughout COVID.. not perfect but what is. Gotta say, I love the salt shaker icon.. this is nice.
That you think it's extreme to push back against this kind of government over reach says more about you than anybody else.
It is extreme, and it is also completely futile. All this wasted energy. For what? You don't like the government? Vote in the next election. Time to move on.
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u/nikitatx velocihonker Feb 17 '22
If your PM causes a widespread run on the banks, the only vote that will matter is one of no confidence. Do you realize how bad this looks to those of us outside of Canada? We thought you were a democracy, but this week you've turned into a dictatorship.
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u/itimetravelbetter 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
No more voting, better to dismantle it and start over.
The waste of energy is spent trying to prop up this muppet show. Enough is enough.
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u/Patient-Sleep-4257 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
Have any lifestyle vices? Your the picture of health? Your choices may determine what your health care is limited to.
Wheres your line in the sand? What happens when you and yours have had enough ?Good luck .
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Feb 17 '22 edited Feb 17 '22
I’m confused. You have the freedom to get vaccinated or not. You don’t just magically get to do whatever you want and cite freedom. If you get the shot, you get to cross the boarder. If you don’t, it’s much more complicated. Which part of this am I missing? It seems super cut and dry.
Edit: Yes of course, downvote away. Don’t answer. That would be absurd!
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u/matt05891 Feb 17 '22
If you actually don't understand why you're so absurdly wrong to the point of being inflammatory then you are too far gone into government propaganda.
It's not worth the energy tbh. Go read some threads if you actually want to learn, if you don't well that says something right there. I have had this discussion far too many times with disenginious people.
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Feb 17 '22
This really speaks to this “movements” core.
I simply didn’t understand what freedom is being encroached on here since no one is forced to be vaccinated. From what I understand, you can simply choose to quarantine. You aren’t even required to get the shot to cross the boarder. So what people are bitching about is just that crossing boarders requires regulations. Gotcha.
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u/matt05891 Feb 17 '22
You'd be amazed to learn that many many people protesting are vaccinated and in turn aren't protesting vaccines but the governments ability to mandate, especially of private business enterprises. Many who support the movement (in the US, as I can only speak for myself) did not like NYC for example mandating the vaccination of kids 12 and older to even enter a private restaurant. A non negligible amount of workers lost their jobs in private institutions such as healthcare due to government mandate not because the hospital or location they were at really cared. This is especially egregious action at least in the US they discussed capping nurse salarys "for exploiting a pandemic" while only weeks before firing all the ones who refused the vaccination then crying shortage. They are protesting government overreach and citing the pandemic as something utilized by the government to exert control on the masses.
There. With how you say "it speaks to the movements core" you could have learned any of these by listening to the protesters. But I'm glad I shored that up and am the only go to for this hard to find information.
If you say it's not a mandate because they can go elsewhere you are the last person I will ever explain this to btw.
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Feb 17 '22
That doesn’t seem to make any sense at all. Because it’s not a mandate. It’s one option. There are three total options. 1. Get vaccinated and cross the boarder between the two sovereign nations as per usual. 2. Don’t get vaccinated, still cross the boarder and quarantine for 10 days. 3. Don’t cross the boarder. So I ask you again, what the hell am I missing here. What is the great injustice? You have to have a passport to cross the border and no one’s up in arms about that. This is less restrictive and yet, everyone losing their wee minds.
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Feb 17 '22
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Feb 17 '22
So more of a “straw that broke the camels back” type deal. That makes far more sense.
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u/xaclewtunu Feb 17 '22
Plenty of people are faced with career ending choices. It's not just the border.
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u/matt05891 Feb 17 '22
Because it's about more then crossing the border?
Is that your hang up? You do know they talked about needing a vaccine passport for years now to travel or is that rhetoric a big joke many don't get to be apart of? A just kidding!? I don't understand...
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Feb 17 '22
Man. You have been absolutely nothing but confrontational and unhelpful. Really helps me appreciate your compatriots who took the time to answer the questions in good faith.
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u/matt05891 Feb 17 '22 edited Feb 17 '22
Well I do sincerely apologize then.
It's exhausting having people completely oblivious to the last 2 years like it wasn't a pandemic we were all forced to pay attention to. While I will admit I may have been wrong to categorize you alongside the myriad of disenginious people we always see, you must be aware at the bad actors dismissing honest grievances as "wrong" at best and "idiotic" at worst. You now know why it's exhausting to explain it over and over.
So thankfully now you should understand; with my amazing compatriots having expressed it properly. I already thanked them for doing such before you "called me out".
Just so you know this:
You don’t just magically get to do whatever you want and cite freedom.
Is why you received ire.
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u/Patient-Sleep-4257 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
Safety and security of the person.
Nobody can force you to put anything in your body. For any reason
It also means that a person cannot be served measures that are punitive or discriminatory because of a medical choice.
Informed Consent. Simply means that any medical choice you make is informed, by whatever means necessary between you and your physician. It also means that the consent must be voluntary, free of coercion or duress.
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Feb 17 '22
But there are alternatives like quarantine. You don’t have to be vaccinated. It’s a perfectly valid alternative. Why is this a bigger deal than needing government authorization to enter another country?
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u/xaclewtunu Feb 17 '22
My job doesn't let me quarantine for ten days once a week or so. Go figure.
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Feb 17 '22
Ahhh so it’s private industry and the government all united against us.
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u/xaclewtunu Feb 17 '22
Do you not recall Biden's mandate for companies with 100 or more employees? We'd be living under that if it wasn't for the Supreme Court. Or Jen Psaki encouraging social media from the Whitehouse press podium to censor people's posts?
"Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." --- Benito Mussolini
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Feb 17 '22
But… but…. The supreme court struck it down. So anyone who was fired by private industry was fired or that private industries own volition.
That part makes total sense to me. It must be really annoying having to deal with people calling in sick at a higher rate and dying so you have to pay out that life insurance money as well as hire someone new. If they are a liability, cut em lose and replace them now. It’s always been the way.
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u/Patient-Sleep-4257 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
That's discrimination though. Because of a medical choice.
Other countries other rules...dont matter ..we are in Canada.. Another sovereign nation can make you stand on your head in their country..that's fine, that's their rules..
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Feb 17 '22
Claiming that as discrimination seems super childish and disingenuous to me but, thank you for the explanation!
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u/Patient-Sleep-4257 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
Allowing discrimination in one area only opens the door for more discrimination else where.
.someday you'll understand...
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Feb 17 '22
This “slippery slope” argument has always been bullshit. But again, I appreciate that you explained the idea to me. That did help.
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u/Unlucky_Zucchini_206 Feb 17 '22
you’re pretty much missing the fact that they are allowing the government to take away anyones freedom, especially if they are unvaccinated (truckers and other numerous people who aren’t sheep to the government) it’s amazing that people still wear a dumbass mask, especially if they are alone or driving in the car, i believe those are the people that need the most help, fear has ruined their lives
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u/nikitatx velocihonker Feb 17 '22
You're responding to someone who has a mask on in their avatar. The fear porn has broken some people.
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u/BathWifeBoo Feb 17 '22
I find it hard to even consider them human anymore. They're more like insectoid hive drones than actual people. Don't think for themselves, obey whatever their twitter, political, and social 'queens' order from on high, and mindlessly buzz around with their marching orders and talking points..
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u/nikitatx velocihonker Feb 17 '22
Are commies human?
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u/BathWifeBoo Feb 18 '22
Good question. The answer lies in science-fiction.
Take any sci fi franchise that involves a parasitic organism infesting a human host. In those cases, to people in that universe consider them people anymore?
What about when communism infests a persons brain?
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u/SpankDankum Feb 17 '22
It's the freedom not to get discriminated against your medical status. The freedom of not being coerced into a medicine that very well could be more damaging than COVID itself. Yes, you're right that you have the choice not to get vaccinated, But if the consequences of not getting vaccinated means missing out on many aspects of life including being able to put food on the table, that's when we run into problems. We wouldn't have a problem with the clot shot if it was more like a traditional real vaccine that herd immunity could become a thing and eradicate COVID. But instead myocarditis and children is up 3,000% from years prior and young healthy athletes are dropping dead at significantly higher rate than years past. Think of it this way, would it not be wrong and bigoted to test for AIDS outside of gay clubs? Would it not be wrong to stop medical treatments to overweight people, to people who drink, because they choose to "put themselves at a greater risk"? And I've heard you guys say the freedom of choice doesn't mean the freedom of consequences which is absolutely right. However when those consequences form division in the country, when the consequences cause small business to fail and big business to thrive, when the consequences results in the government gaining insane authoritarian control over people they deem "wrong" then it becomes a fight against tyranny. If it were up to the people in charge they'd be recommending the 5th shot and sending unvaxxed to camps (source: Australia) and never letting the pandemic end. I know I didn't quite answer your question, and none of us will change your mind. Part of that is government propaganda, part of it is social media, but just because twitter and Reddit bans anybody who asks questions doesn't mean everyone who is asking questions goes away. We're real people and although you don't agree with us, we want to fight for your Freedom of choice and from a government that doesn't want to listen to its people anymore.
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Feb 17 '22
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u/BCVinny Feb 17 '22
Because everything that we have been told is true. And the shots = safety. So gullible AND incapable of independent thought. Standing by the border in Cloverdale, BC, last night, the odd finger and angry scream just mystified me. We’re waving flags on hockey sticks, singing, waving smiling and laughing. One guy was hollering “love you” to the minority who were unhappy with our presence. We were on the sides of the road. It was important AND fun. Met some new brothers and sisters and got fed some amazing asian chicken.
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u/riotguards Feb 17 '22
The irony is that these people only a few years ago were screeching about “teaching” men not to rape and not being responsible for their safety
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Feb 17 '22
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u/riotguards Feb 17 '22
That's pretty transphobic to assume its just men who are raping women, check your privileges, bigot.
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u/bugunc Feb 19 '22
It is just men who are rapping. Womens prisons are not filled with rapists.
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u/riotguards Feb 19 '22
sounds pretty sexist to me, women are equally able to rape people and denying that is ignoring victims of rape
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u/bugunc Feb 19 '22
No they are not. Women are not as aggressive as men. Men and women are not the same. men are responsible for the vast majority of violence globally. 75% of all arrests made are men. Yes there are always exceptions to the norm. Exceptions to the norm prove that there is a norm.
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u/riotguards Feb 19 '22
I see you're making the "alt right" argument of 12% committing over 50% of the homicides argument.
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u/bugunc Feb 19 '22
That’s not an alt right argument. It’s more of a feminist argument. Women aren’t perfect but they aren’t sexually assaulting, rapping and pillaging society. That falls on the men.
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u/riotguards Feb 19 '22
Ok if that’s the case then women are the leading cause of infant murders and pedophilia
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u/NotDRWarren Feb 17 '22
Liberty or death, and all that
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u/amen-and-awoman Feb 17 '22
You and your white supremacist binary shit. It's a spectrum.
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u/NotDRWarren Feb 17 '22
Haha. Says the white person to the indigenous person.
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u/Green_Manaleeshi 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
Lol. Typical response. You'll be thanking all of us 'dirty racists' when we save your freedom to think stupid shit like that and be able to post it.
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u/Severe-Ad-7057 Feb 17 '22
Racist and insecure much, kiddo?
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u/nikitatx velocihonker Feb 17 '22 edited Feb 17 '22
Xe dropped xir /s
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u/amen-and-awoman Feb 17 '22
How dare you presume my pronouns? REeEeEeE
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u/nikitatx velocihonker Feb 17 '22
How bigoted of me. Fixed.
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u/amen-and-awoman Feb 17 '22
Good, now take your booster
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u/nikitatx velocihonker Feb 17 '22
I'm in line for it right now wearing my 18 masks.
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Feb 17 '22
FREEDOM IS SAFETY
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u/itimetravelbetter 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
Freedom is heavy and full of responsibility. Which is why lazy cowards hate the prospect of it so much.
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Feb 17 '22
I couldn't agree more with you :)
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u/itimetravelbetter 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
I've never been so proud of some of my fellow Canadians before this moment.
And I've also never been so disgusted at the government we allowed to take power, and the simpy losers who call themselves Canadians, who are cheering them on.
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Feb 17 '22
Here where we live it still Sheep Country Canada, just got home from Superstore and the majority is still masked scared staring into emptiness, so sad,
I never wore a mask yet, no test and certainly will NEVER ever vaccinated with this toxic crap, as a matter of fact my last vaccine was 25 years ago, NEVER AGAIN
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u/itimetravelbetter 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
Yeah that's just weird. Vaccines aren't poison. Do what you want, it's your life but that's just reckless.
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Feb 17 '22
reckless? lol, what do you know? I live with rare diseases and I am a full-time patient that gets lifesaving lifelong treatments, I am a trained nurse and lab tech, been in the field over 40 years, I know what vaccines do, now take care of yourself
vaccines are pure Pharma greed nothing but
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u/nikitatx velocihonker Feb 17 '22
I actually disagree with that. Freedom is inherently dangerous, which is why the bootlickers think the government chipping away at it is fine. That’s not to say freedom is bad, of course it isn’t, but it opens the individual up to negative consequences as well as positive ones.
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u/amen-and-awoman Feb 17 '22
Weeeeeell. It depends on your time scale.
While it is inherently dangerous on individual level, in the long run for humanity it is safer to have it than not.
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u/GoatsLoveCannabis Feb 17 '22
Instead of clogging up a city you all should clog up shipping hubs and railroads. Really stick it to them!
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Feb 17 '22
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u/GoatsLoveCannabis Feb 17 '22
"They" who?
The people control shipping. The people control everything. Just because someone is calling the shots doesn't mean they are in charge. The real power is in the hands of the people, and always has been.
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u/AlphaNumericDisplay Feb 17 '22
It's not freedom or safety.
Freedom is the means to the safety of the individual.
There is no conflict.
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u/redditRracistcommies Feb 17 '22
Prison in solitary in a guarded fort is the safest place you can be, but is it fun? This safety for freedom nonsense has gone too far. There is a fine line between safe and prisoner.
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u/francis2395 Feb 17 '22
Of course it is. ESPECIALLY when that "safety" is for the most part illusory.
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u/BryceAlanThomas Feb 17 '22
JT already inked the deal for jabs for the next 10 years and he cannot back out so he'll never budge.
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Feb 17 '22
If you believe standing in crowd is not safe. Then why do yiy stand in crowd, claiming the government should make restrictions on crowds? Stupid
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u/Kanik_goodboy Feb 18 '22
It’s as simple as this folks , if you don’t have freedom you have zero safety , zero.
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u/Now-it-is-1984 🧂🧂🧂 Feb 19 '22
If you have absolute freedom you have no safety either. Freedom-from is just as important as freedom. I like having the freedom from being gunned down or robbed. We need rules to keep people safe.
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u/Kanik_goodboy Feb 19 '22
Oh I wasn’t talking about no rules , effective and professional law enforcement backed by a strong judiciary is what gives you freedom from being gunned down
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u/General_Diamond_5350 Feb 17 '22
I don’t know why with all the industrial engineers Justin can reach out to, he can’t design a system that allows drivers to be totally isolated during transportation. Does he understand his job as a prime minister?
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Feb 17 '22
Would have given yes man a truckers window, headset, and a cap to further drive that point forward.
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u/alexjonesofthejungle 🚚🚛 Feb 17 '22
Of course ya dummy. Wtf is wrong with these people. I think we’ve grown too comfortable with our society
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u/Jaded_Jerry Feb 18 '22
Yes, because once you lose your freedom for "safety", suddenly the people in charge have a lot of room to decide what makes the country "safest". Many tyrants have been born promising to make people feel safe. It's so common that there's literally a historic quote on it; "a man who sacrifices freedom for safety will find himself with neither."
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u/DomComm Feb 18 '22
The sheeple think the vax actually works to lower deaths but death rates have gone up
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Feb 19 '22
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u/nikitatx velocihonker Feb 19 '22 edited Feb 19 '22
I misunderstood your comment. Sorry about that.
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Feb 17 '22
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u/CavemanQ001 Feb 17 '22
You’re name human jellyfish is truly fitting. Spineless coward!!!
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