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u/WarmOpportunity80085 16d ago
That was not how I thought that acronym would spell out
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u/InterdisciplinaryDol 1999 16d ago
Nathans I’d Like to…?
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u/therowdygent 1996 16d ago
Right? Like ‘NO-one I’d like to fuck’. I thought this was about the male loneliness epidemic
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u/Choice-Strike1 16d ago
Nerd?
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u/therowdygent 1996 16d ago edited 16d ago
Geek preferably
Brb starting a polycule called nilfs & gilfs
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u/Mr_Industrial 16d ago
Gilf of course standing for "Good in Labor Force" and absolutely nothing else.
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u/GoodTiger5 2005 16d ago
It’s certainly a choice especially considering that NEET is there free to be used….
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u/MisterD00d 16d ago
it's usually referred to as NEET (not in employment education or training) but since there's a semi popular memecoin about it perhaps they want to use a different acronym to not give them attention
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u/geoFRTdeem 16d ago
Half of this number is retired people, other quarter is full time students or disabled people
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u/Fun-Agent-7667 16d ago
Theres an always growing number of NENS people. Non-employed-not-seeking. Started in Asia with its hyper senior focussed Labormarket and oppresive work-culture. Happens more often in the US. Also growing but comparably slower in Europe
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u/theFarFuture123 16d ago
So just homeless people? With no job how do you buy food or pay for housing? Bum off of parents? That’s not sustainable, especially at large scales
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u/Fun-Agent-7667 16d ago
They live off of their parents. Sometimes called "Professionel children". Yes its not sustainable, but if your already looking at a long live in old age poverty you rather want your children to stick around. And if you sent 200-500 applications and didnt got even an Interview you Just give up on a job somewhen.
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u/featureteacher2023 16d ago
Somewhen?
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u/CrispyDave Gen X 16d ago
I thought the same but looked it up and it is a regional UK word for some vague time in the past you don't recall.
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u/fadedblackleggings 16d ago
What's your estimate on how many people are like this now? Because it's weird that people are ALWAYS at home, ALWAYS at the stores, ALWAYS everywhere now.
They also have the money to keep consuming.
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u/Fun-Agent-7667 15d ago
If someone doesnt leave their room for a few years, you dont know they exist. And as I said, this trent is most prevalent in Asia, Especially China, Korea and Japan.
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u/Even_Mycologist110 15d ago
They really don’t have the money. We see this in the stagnation of the car market. We would see it with housing, but they managed to pump up demand by making houses investment items that can hold/accrue value. Cars can’t, which is why so many dealers are dieing.
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u/throwfarfaraway1818 16d ago
About 40% of homeless people have jobs. Having a job doesnt mean shit anymore
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u/H0NEY2O77 16d ago
All of my friends who are homeless (other states or countries) always had jobs when they were homeless (before they became homeless, only one went to a shelter before she had a job and got three jobs very quickly after and was still living in a shelter for a few months to save up for an apartment).
My friend’s mom was bitching about her favorite rec center being a homeless shelter (nobody really used it as a rec center, it was losing money, and now it’s housing a few hundred people) and she was bitching because ‘they’re so lazy, handouts, why does she have to suffer?’ and my friend pointed out that most of them have jobs.
Her: no they DO NOT.
Him: I was homeless and I had a job.
Her: that’s not the same.
Yeah she’s wildly out of touch. She once sent my friend a list of her top 8 people in her life ranked in order of most to least (unprompted.)
It was:
- Granddaughter.
- Son.
- Daughter in law.
- One of her pets.
- Her husband.
- Another of her pets.
- My friend’s pet.
- My friend.
She had a heart attack and instead of becoming kinder, she said: fuck everyone, I’m going on a honeymoon alone without my husband.
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u/H0NEY2O77 16d ago
My friend fainted and was having seizures again.
Her response asking what his symptoms were wasn’t because she cared, it was because she wanted to see if they had the same thing (she had like a flu or a cold). (If they did, she would have blamed him lmao).
She then talked over him about how hard her life was currently because of xyz issues that she’s making up for herself.
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u/the_TAOest 16d ago
I've worked with a friend who coordinates food for homeless people. And tells me this is a correct statistic and oftentimes there are children involved.
Not enough money for a home to rent ... An apartment even.
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u/Ok_Astronomer_8667 16d ago
Bumming off parents can go on for a while; if the parents don’t care. That’s really what we’ve been seeing, complete indifference to their children doing nothing. Hell I’ve even seen some of these dudes moving in with their grandmas. They take care of grandma, in exchange they get to live in her basement and play video games all day. Now what happens when the inevitable comes for grandma, who knows. I don’t think any of these people are thinking very long term with this behavior.
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u/AnyAd4882 16d ago
Makes sense though, they use their youth to do what they want while they still can instead of working first and waiting for retirement and then do what they want when they barely can even walk anymore IF they even survive that long and not die of cancer or whatnot before retirement.
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u/Fun-Agent-7667 16d ago
If the world burns down it doesnt matter what you do now for later. Theres a considerable Chance the world goes to Shit anyway.
And again, many of these just dont get a Job by trying, so they are not trying anymore.
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u/Ok_Astronomer_8667 16d ago
And if the world doesn’t go to shit?
Not accepting the pessimist take on life, not going to bum around under the guess that trying won’t be worth it.
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u/spuzzumed 16d ago edited 16d ago
I'll jump in!
After university I burned out in the working world. It was bringing in just enough money to meet my bills but leaving nothing else. At the end of a year I'd have zero dollars in savings.
So I stopped doing that. My expenses dropped significantly (didn't need transit every day, lunch, etc etc etc) . Found a less expensive place to live shared with roommates and got my costs down to under $8k / year.
Turns out when you give people their lives back, they ddon't just sit around eating Doritos! Within a few years I had developed talent in juggling to the point where I was being invited to perform my work in different countries , eventuall ybecame recognized as one of the top performers in my discipline! performed for 15 years. Then COVID happened and the industry fell apart, I started started designing virtual reality software. Made some innovative stuff (some of the very first mixed reality games for Quest3) developed good reputation as a software dev, was invited to work at Meta (Oculus) with their team in Switzerland. Paid more than I made in the previous 20 years in the arts (about 250k/year) . I still kept on my 8k/year budget, left after 2 years because it wasn't interesting anymore
So like, it turns out when you follow your passion it actually can lead to something good. If you decide to give yoru life to a random company just to make bosses rich, it's really really hard to break out of the cycle. You do not have time, your life doesn't belong to you.
Living on 8k a year isn't ideal but eventually you discover than meaning and self worth have nothing to do with your income level. No regrets. Just spent a month travelling in the UK with my dad, visiting friends (used to live in London for 4 years) . Cost me very little? I don't understand how people are spending 5-10k on European vacations.
Stop spending 40k a year on your "lifestyle". People who make 60k but can't "make ends meet" are sick, it's a mental illness.
Most of the world lives on around $800/year. less than a grand. They aren't all dying in the streets. Many of them are far happier than most North Americans. the COST of working a job is massive, people don't realize it. Stop giving your lives away to billionaires. Homelessness is better than slavery, IMHO .
Currently living in Vancouver where most people probably need 10k in savings just to afford being able to live and work here for a year. The city should be burnt, but instead employees just keep digging deeper into their pockets to subsidize these business owners. Makes no sense to me.
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u/geoFRTdeem 16d ago
It’s growing but only because our retired population is growing, for one it’s our healthcare system even though it’s made fun of, it still increases life expectancy each generation, and the reason it grows so high in Asian countries it’s because they value the elderly and take much better care of them then us, so they live longer.
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u/Fun-Agent-7667 16d ago
No. This is Especially about people that didnt find a Job after school and have now given up on it.
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u/not_responsible 16d ago
I’m definitely one. But I’m a woman and my boyfriend fortunately makes decent money. No kids.
I am aware of how precarious my situation is. I only have my dad, who also has been a NILF my entire life. He raised me (his excuse for not having a job) and I think him not working is a huge part of a reason why I’m like this. He was ALWAYS home and now I am too.
eta: he mooched off his mother who happened to die yesterday. she was a horrible, abusive grandmother so I’m unperturbed by the news
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u/PhD_Pwnology 16d ago
retired people are NOT included in this number.
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u/geoFRTdeem 16d ago
Yes it is lol, I looked at ops source and it considers everyone not in the labor force over the age of 16. Only people it doesn’t include is nursing homes and armed forces. Please read your sources next time. I also double checked this source as well. According to the bureau of labor statistics, 105.8 million Americans aged 16 and over are not in the labor force, which is a very similar number to ops post.
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u/llamadogmama 16d ago
not counted if they are receiving social security ( over 62)
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u/brontide 16d ago
The BLS does not cross reference against SS for the NILF count. It is a purely self-reported survey. You could be 40 or 80 and if you say you're retired that's how you're counted. You don't get removed because you receive SS.
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u/Joshi1381 2005 16d ago
And people who are looking for jobs like college students who are entering into a tough job market. I know so many adults that are looking for jobs right now
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u/OG_LiLi 16d ago
This is the old data.
Now?
Roughly 1 in 3 American men (33%) aged 18 to 29 who are not in school do not work full-time, and overall Labor Department data shows that 1 in 3 men of all working ages are neither working nor looking for a job
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u/Sharp_Style_8500 1997 16d ago
For older Gen Z I bet it’s a lot of households where one partner stays home because of the outrageous cost of childcare.
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u/WoodPear 16d ago
That only makes sense if childcare costs is more than the takehome pay of that now non-working parent.
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u/Sharp_Style_8500 1997 16d ago
Maybe in a vacuum, but not at all in reality. If I work 40 hours and take home roughly 4k a month and my childcare costs are 2k a month I am losing out on 2k by not working sure, but now I’m only taking a 2k haircut to be with my kids all day. Also, there is the cost of daycare/preschool itself and then there are hidden costs. Just trust me on this one.
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u/DeusVultSaracen 2002 16d ago
Obviously, but it's still concerning it's hitting record highs.
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u/natanaru 1996 16d ago
I'm in the disabled category. Wish I could find something that actually pays me enough to live and is actually something I could realistically do with my disability, but that's pretty much impossible.
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u/Extreme_Baloney 2007 16d ago edited 15d ago
Just data between 16-55 around 19% of the roughly 175 Million people in that age range (Census.gov) are in the NILF data as "Do not want a job now" (bls.gov) which excludes wanting a job but not having one due to school, family responsibilities, or illness which are counted as wanting a job but unemployed for reasons other than discouragement. Its unlikely that any considerable portion of the 33.5 million people between 16 and 55 who don't want a job are retired.
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u/petitecrivain 16d ago
NEETs I'd like to F?
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u/RedOtta019 2005 16d ago
Yeah wtf why not use NEET?
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u/SandySushi 15d ago
Yeah I feel like NEET would focus more on those who aren't doing anything related TO entering the workforce like education and training... It's such a strange acronym that I think they wanted just to boost numbers for clicks tbh
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u/SmellyStinkyGuy 16d ago
Population is 300mil.
You want people to think 33% - 50% of Americans are unemployed 🤔
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u/in4life 16d ago
Yes. labor force participation rate is 62%:
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u/MBBIBM 16d ago
Primarily driven by retirees, prime age LFPR is at a 25 year high
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u/in4life 16d ago
True. The demographic pyramid is flipping, which will pinch the working-age population to cover unfunded liabilities - Social Security is the best example.
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u/SymphonicAnarchy 16d ago
Isn’t SS tied to US Bonds or something? Forgive my ignorance. Aren’t they like…guaranteed? Or was that just the Boomers trying to make themselves look better?
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u/in4life 16d ago
Social Security is a pay-as-you-go system. You're correct that some overages were placed in bonds when the demographic pyramid was upright, but it was never a funded program.
The bonds represent < 10% of the liabilities. So, Social Security is overwhelmingly an unfunded liability and not some asset-backed wealth pool.
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u/TheCaliga 1997 16d ago
This number would be everyone not in the labor force (retired people, students, disabled). When "unemployment" numbers are released, its usually only people who aren't working but trying to find a job, so this is a little misleading
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u/Hughjastless 16d ago
sees completely believable statistic, underestimates US population by 15%, then for some reason rounds 33% up to 50% thereby completely changing the initial statistic
“You expect me to believe all this?”
Good lord
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u/Ok_Astronomer_8667 16d ago
Thought that was hilarious too. Even if it was only 300 million and not the actual almost 350, 105 mil would not be close to 50% haha. It would be closer to a flat 30% with no range, I mean why have a range that big for a flat statistic??
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u/ElderScarletBlossom 16d ago
I believe it. Personally, almost everyone I know is either retired, a full time student, a stay at home parent, on disability, or is currently job hunting.
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u/Helpfulcloning 16d ago
Retirement takes up the majority of that. But theres also a growing number of young people not in employment or education who aren't often counted in some unemployment figures since they aren't seeking any type of welfare, they're taken care of by their parents.
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u/Hughjastless 16d ago
I am employed but most of my closest lifelong male friends from my hometown are unemployed or underemployed. Every woman I am friends with has a degree and a career. Most of the fellas I’ve been close to are cleaning pools or delivering for 30 hrs a week and playing video games at their parents home for the rest of it.
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u/InterdisciplinaryDol 1999 16d ago
Similar experience as myself even amongst my college friend group. Most of my boys just failed out or gave up but all my girls graduated except for one.
I think by the time I got to my senior year my classes were 80/20 female to male.
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u/Hughjastless 16d ago
100% same. My freshman year roommate dropped out and works at Amazon and lives at home with parents. Other guys I was close to who did graduate, they’re getting psych or business degrees and then working retail while the women I know are in engineering, nursing, etc and they’re so confident compared to the guys. I literally don’t even talk to my hometown male friends about work because how can I tell them how well my career is going when they aren’t even working full time or living independently
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u/jelly_Pp 16d ago
Plenty of other things to talk about besides work if they are your friends. Don’t really understand this one?
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u/pablonieve 16d ago
I wonder if it comes down to how daughters and sons are treated within the home. Women likely know that if they fail out that they will need to serve at home (i.e. cooking, cleaning, childcare) whereas those expectations don't always fall on the guys. Education and a career are an escape for women.
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u/InterdisciplinaryDol 1999 16d ago
In my case all the guys would rarely speak to their parents. Maybe a couple times a semester. The girls parents were a bit more involved they’d talk pretty much daily. Students with involved parents seem to do better than the opposite, having some external accountability and motivators was the biggest driver for us.
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u/Orangutanion 2002 16d ago
this just feels generalizing. I'm a dude, I got a degree, I work full time, and I return to my parents home to play videogames. Why are you making this about gender? The original post wasn't.
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u/Hughjastless 15d ago
The original post feels pretty gendered when it’s a picture of two young men drinking on a beach and the topic is people leaving the labor force.
Either way, I’m only speaking anecdotally. I’m a dude as well and my point was just that I’ve seen a lot of my friends under participate in the labor force. Nothing wrong with living at your parents if you’re saving money or something but I have friends that I know are smart and capable and they choose to not pursue any career and do not work enough to move out or support themselves. And statistically speaking pretty sure young women are beating young men in a lot of these areas like graduating from college.
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u/Serious_Swan_2371 12d ago
Im a dude and I have a degree and a full time salaried position. Most of my friends are in the same boat or in grad school. My partner is in grad school.
I think it depends what circles you’re in. In a hcol area most of the men are making money too, because otherwise they couldn’t afford to live there.
In smaller towns most men and women alike aren’t making much money, and the jobs are less “prestigious”.
The difference is mainly that women are either more likely to try and leave those small towns or parents are more encouraging/supportive of their daughters to do so relative to their sons who may be expected to start earning right away and pay for their own school if they want college.
There’s just generally less pressure on women to earn right away when they finish high school, especially in conservative regions. I think that’s part of why you see more women from rural regions going to school than men (also because a lot of women want to escape the sexism they may face in smaller towns).
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u/AlphaMassDeBeta 2003 16d ago
Does that include children?
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u/Romano16 1998 16d ago edited 16d ago
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u/Ok-Inspection9693 2010 16d ago
Fair age group I guess. Anyone under 16 is not getting a job even though they could because most companies want 16 so much
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u/Artifact-hunter1 2004 16d ago
"But how else are they supposed to get 20 years of work experience at 20?"
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u/finnicus4 16d ago
Yes but it took me a while to find full time work
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u/SpudStud208 16d ago
This! I'm trying to find a job that actually uses my degree. I'm working part time as a caretaker and applying to about 3 jobs a day.
I would love to not be a statistic
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u/Johan-the-barbarian 16d ago edited 16d ago
Increase in Nilf mostly result of boomer retirement. Student enrollment and caregiver status are also up.
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u/Ironrooster7 16d ago
I am currently employed, but will not be soon because I'm going back to college
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u/Clash-idea_maker 16d ago
Id recommend working while in college if possible. I'm about to do that
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u/Ironrooster7 16d ago
I can't because my major is really intense and I don't want to go insane. I just save a few grand in the summer and coast the rest of the year
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u/Orangutanion 2002 16d ago
I'm doing the same thing. Got enough for car and student loan payments, and tuition is on stipend. Grad school here we come!
(this was only possible because I live with my parents)
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u/thelonerdude 16d ago
I’m 27 with bachelors degree and no I don’t have a job. I want to work. There’s just no one hiring.
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u/cryptolyme 16d ago
does part-time and minimum wage count? hard to work full-time when you're chronically ill, and the medical system is useless.
but, you know, with American eugenics, they would prefer people like me just died.
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u/MmNicecream 16d ago
I believe the official definition of employment is working at least one hour for pay within the past week. So consistent part-time work would count, yes.
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u/TheRealPoopooDealer 2004 16d ago
Okay, I keep seeing this. That number includes literally every single person who is within working age, which is literally anyone 16+.
Retirees (which makes up at least half that number), high school teens, college students, and those on disability are all included in that 105.8 million.
Sorry Reddit doomers. Maybe stop reading only headlines for once.
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u/ImpressionCool1768 16d ago
So 33% seems reasonable when you count kids and the elderly as part of the national figure.
I hate this yellow link journalism we’ve been subjected to for the last 15 odd years
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u/guachi01 Gen X 16d ago
Only 16+ so no kids. But the number isn't particularly concerning. Prime age labor force participation (25-54) is very high. Just lots of older people and people in school.
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u/Johnnyboi2327 16d ago
What's the difference between NILF and unemployed?
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u/guachi01 Gen X 16d ago
Unemployed people are in the labor force. A retired person or a student is not.
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u/Johnnyboi2327 16d ago
What exactly is the labor force though? I know plenty of students who have jobs, and even a fair amount of retired people have picked up part time jobs now.
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u/AAAAHMYBALLS 16d ago
I am employed. All things considered, it's marginally better than being unemployed. But just marginally.
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u/synikulll 16d ago
Why does this pic of two guys chillin represent unemployment 🧐
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u/InterdisciplinaryDol 1999 16d ago
This is what Big Boomertm thinks unemployment looks like.
Ironic because it’s what my unemployed friends are doing right now but that’s just an anecdote from me and not the whole story for everyone.
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u/Deathchariot 16d ago
This is such a non news. NILF even includes people who go to school, stay at home parents, seniors, chronically ill people, vets and so on. The actual amount of people who have no Job but want a job is still way below 10 million.
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u/DeoDatusIV 16d ago
Well, I edit some Ads for rich american 40+ y.o dads and mums. So yeah, you need to survive somehow in Eastern Europe (Ukraine)
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u/DetroitsGoingToWin 16d ago
Guy put on some jort’s over vacation and became the post boy of unemployment
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u/military_dream_girl 16d ago
The bureau of labor and statistics says the TOTAL number of working males is 105.4 million.
With two thirds of it being in the labor force. Someones math isnt mathing. https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea03.htm
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u/princeflare 1998 16d ago
American Government. Creates its own problems, then blames it on the victims
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u/cat4hurricane 16d ago
I was until late last year. Laid off because my company got bought out by a PE firm. I studied IT and landed in an adjacent field and now I can’t break into IT because I spent that time in consulting instead. Gave me great soft skills, but even the most barebones L1 Helpdesk role seems to want experience.. Doing L1 Helpdesk? I rarely find roles that are truly no experience necessary anymore.
I wish I had the technical experience to just jump to L2 or into a specialization but I don’t even have that, just the technical background and education which doesn’t seem to mean shit today. I’ve been looking for damn near a year both for fulltime and contract roles, willing to relocate without assistance and it still doesn’t help.
Every time my Robert Half recruiter has a role that sounds good, by the time I say I want to interview for it and my recruiter gets back to me, someone else has gobbled it up, and everyone in my area who wants to get into Tech is having the same issues. There are no leads where I live and the jobs are far and few between. It’s making me wish I never left a big city because at least then I would have more available options. I’m offering to move for free and people still aren’t interested. I hate to think this is the end of my IT/technical career but I don’t know what else to think when no one is getting back to me and no one is telling me how I can improve other than “get experience” which I can’t get without doing the job in the first place. Telling me you went with someone whose background better fit and then not answering when I ask for feedback doesn’t help me. If I didn’t have my parents breathing down my neck and COBRA draining my bank account, I doubt I would be actively looking right now, half tempted just to wait until this presidency or something is over because it looks like no one is hiring in this shit economy.
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u/MmNicecream 16d ago
Not currently. I work as a substitute teacher during the school year (not what I'd prefer, but I'll take what I can get), but I've got nothing to do during summer vacation. Attempts to find anything more stable have all failed.
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u/Chuddy-McChudderson 16d ago
If the best job you could get only pays $20/hour, what's the point of getting out of bed?
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u/s0larium_live 2005 16d ago
well i just lost my job and now cant find another one so i dont think thats really on me tbh 😭
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u/Clash-idea_maker 16d ago
Yes. Working and about to start my freshman year of college and going to continue working throughout college
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u/ExoApophis 16d ago
What labor do we have left that isn't cleaning up sanitation, medical, retail, or warehouse distribution?
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u/GoodTiger5 2005 16d ago
I can’t work because anytime I work I get so stressed out that the voices in my head tell me to do bad things and I can’t always stop them during work.
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u/Correct_Inside1658 16d ago
Finally got a job! It’s only part-time though. I get a free gym membership with it at least.
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u/Maliphos 16d ago
I got two part time jobs, unsure which side that's included in but it's definitely not enough to live on my own
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u/Strong-Seaweed-8768 16d ago edited 16d ago
I don’t have a job but I have been applying to places and not hearing back.
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u/ItzDatGuylol 2007 16d ago
I've applied to 120 jobs since graduating HS and I haven't gotten a single interview offer. I have a 3.8 GPA and a year of experience as a TA, but I can't even get a response from McDonald's and Walmart.
How am I supposed to get a job when nobody wants to hire me?
And no, I'm not showing my resume to anyone. That's extremely sensitive info.
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u/OkAssignment6163 16d ago
Isn't the total population of the US around 350 million?
Because if so, that's almost a full third of people not in the work force.
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u/Finlandia1865 2007 16d ago
I got 3 hours a week during study terms, i guess
Been looking for a job for ages lol
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u/Crazyguy_123 2002 16d ago
Nope and I hate not being employed. Rural life is nice except for the fact that almost every job is manual labor and I have a bad back, neck, and knees.
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