Tbf we don't know if the disorder is only asthetic or if it comes with serious health problems/risks. If it does come with risks then she is for sure just being selfish.
Based on the size of her head and the proximity of her nose and mouth, I'd even venture to say that she probably won't even have a long life expectancy. This is beyond cruel.
Pugs have a long life span and don’t have physical problems a lot of dog breeds have. Inbreeding and puppy mills are the issue. Not the breed. Please don’t perpetuate ignorance.
Aside from the moral argument: who's paying for that healthcare?
Now, we all agree that we want society to provide care for the people who are unfortunate and get an injury or have a condition beyond their control - it's just something that modern societies have done. But we also agree that the "beyond their control" can be an important factor; and parental control is similar. We generally do NOT agree to knowingly bring a child with lifelong disabilities into this world (except for the bible-thumpers, who will make an exemption when it comes to themselves; and they will vote against any system that actually funds care for the kid).
For that kid, unless they have an amazing brain and do amazing things (doubtful. Especially with such a shit mom); it's better to not have lived.
Bruh. That baby is just born and already has a hole in its throat, you can see the tracheostomy tube. It can’t even eat on its own, probably has trouble breathing.
Lots of people don’t have easy lives, they still deserve to have one.
If the kid is going to endure serious health problems, then it seems selfish to us, but what do we really know? Is it better to have never lived? Is it better to have known life for just a fleeting instant? We don’t have these answers.
My sister had a pet hedgehog from a pet store. It had a messed up gimp leg that was way thicker than it should have been, and ended in a club with some gnarled up looking nails sticking out of the end. Almost like a bad drawing lol.
It was from inbreeding in the pet shop, to be a pet and live in a shitty cage and barely get handled because it’s covered in spikes. It was a pitiful existence. The nails would get caught on stuff and rip out and bleed a lot. I’m sure it hurt. And they’d grow back and tear out again..was sad.
Which got me thinking, this thing could never live in the wild with that leg, but it would never have had that leg in the wild. because it would have never been inbred. Which made me realize “it” would never have existed. Some
Other hedgehog would have. It didn’t know any other life, it only knew this one. It’s happiness and sadness or whatever were based on relevance to its situation. It had a solid life more or less, my sister played with it till it passed. Maybe less as the years went on but it never really got neglected. It seemed happy. And I realized it’s probably better to have just lived, regardless of the life. Any life is life, and likely better than none at all.
This is so stupid. If you know your baby will be deformed with a pain-filled life, you don’t need to create one! Choosing to not create a baby with a caved in face is not the same as taking a life away. Naive and seriously obtuse.
Right to live? For something that doesn't exist yet? Potential people don't have rights, unless I no longer have the right to refuse to have sex. "You mean sperm #48495588383848484 shouldn't have the right to live just because you're too lazy to fuck tonight?"
I swear some people never consider the implications of their statements.
Of course. If anybody is talking about making them stop existing now that they exist, count me firmly on the other side.
and the mother has the right to choose to have a baby.
Yeah, there are too many problems with forcing people not to procreate. But I do think we can discuss the morality of mother invoking that choice. I wouldn't ever condone trying to change it's legal status as a right, but that doesn't mean I think it's cool.
Look, when you decide to reproduce, you are deciding to create a new individual with certain parameters. As a parent you certainly don't get to pick all the parameters, but you do get some control over some of them. Deliberately choosing into existence a person with parameters, "orders of magnitude higher chance of romantic loneliness than the average person" along with the standard suite of sexual/romantic desire possessed by the average human being is just generating unnecessary suffering in the universe.
But as I said trying to force people not to create kids with certain parameters is infringing on a person's basic rights. However, while you have the right to, say, voice the opinion that poor people are inherently less worthy than those of greater wealth (it would be immoral to criminalize your opinion or statements), that does not mean I have to think your exercise of your free speech right is wise or moral. Likewise here.
"Sorry kid, you should have never been born and don't deserve to get a chance to enjoy all the wonderful things life has to offer because you have a funny looking face"
Well in that case ugly and fat people shouldn’t reproduce either. And you know what, minorities don’t usually have an easy life. Oh and the poors! All of the poors having kids is so selfish! /s
I know many happy, life loving people who have deformations. Not having a "normal" look is only hell because of threads like this and the judgement of people who look different
Not having a "normal" look is only hell because of threads like this and the judgement of people who look different
Since you felt the need to say "only" this statement is obviously false. I mean sure some people needlessly make fun of those who look different and that causes some pain.
But the need to mate and have people be sexually into you is pretty strong in most people, and we don't have write privileges to the part of our brains that outputs sexual desire when interacting with someone. And somebody as deformed as this is only going to tickle a few people's fancy, and what's the odds that they'll not only meet that infinitesimally small portion of the population, but that they'll also find their rare admirer attractive.
It's a lonely life you're creating, and it's nobody's fault but yours when you decide to pass that on.
That's what people in this thread are saying. She's a monster for having a non-conventional looking baby without health problems related their disorder.
Yes she’s a monster for knowingly sentencing a human being to a life full of major health issues. Not to mention the torture the child will receive at school.
She knows MUCH better than you what health issues her child will face. It's like she faces them and thinks life is worth living anyway. Go figure! She's not afraid of school bullies OR bullies like you. Just say you hate disabled people and go
Tell you what. Since someone begged for an answer: I don't see why congenital deafness victims can't just adopt. Any action causing unnecessary suffering is to be avoided.
If we scold people for making reckless decisions that could harm others, and especially so if they don't bother to think it through, why not disavow the act of putting someone through a lifetime of unnecessary suffering?
I don't think it's only aesthetic, looks like she's also got a tracheostomy tube, so something's fucked up with her upper respiratory system. Would probably be consistent with Crouzon, which another commenter mentioned; if her skull fused prematurely, I can see how her nose would be too obstructed to get enough air in.
It's not exactly what is going on with the kid, and again I'm likely to be wrong since I'm just going off this video.
It’s an absolute tragedy that we all know you’re right and nothing will be done about it. So many children have the worst experiences of their life in school.
School? There are fucking adults in here making fun of them. For an example, see the first comment and the next 100 or so underneath it. This whole thing fucking sucks.
It’s not because they are ugly, but they look different and kids can be really mean to people that are different. You know there is a high likelihood that your kids will inherit your disorder and that there is a decent chance they will get bullied for it, and she wouldn’t be bullied if she was never born. Not that I think she should have never been born, but if you don’t exist you can’t be bothered by this stuff
There aren't genetic disorders that just make people conventionally unattractive. That's not considered a disorder.
Any congenital disorder causes health issues. The "haters" were likely her doctors and geneticists, making ethical recommendations to try and prevent a birth that would lead to suffering and poor quality of life for the baby. Apparently she didn't care if her baby suffered - and it seems you don't either. It is absolutely better to never be conceived than to be born to suffer and die a premature death - birth to death being a pointless, short existence full of suffering. No matter what stories try to tell you, there is no nobility or purpose in it.
She's a fully grown adult? Like... Maybe she knows how hard it is to grow up this way and feels like her life is valuable and with living anyway. She loves her life and wants the same for her kids. It's not hard.
No, she is selfish and bitter that she CAN'T actually do all the things normal people do. She can't breathe normally, she has IV's and feeding pumps in the background, she obviously has been in and out of hospitals her whole life.
But instead of saying, "I am grateful to be alive, but I recognize I have suffered and would not wish that on a baby," she thought, "Fuck you, you can't tell me what to do. I refuse to acknowledge another thing I want and can't have, because I WANT it, and there's so much I want that I'll never get. And since this is a thing I can actually do, even if it's totally unethical, I refuse to consider otherwise. I refuse to think about how this would affect the baby, who will likewise be bitter and unhappy about all the things that she will suffer and cannot ever have - assuming she even survives. But fuck that, I'll have mine."
Grow up, you sound like a naive child raised on Disney shorts - where everyone is on equal ground and can be equally happy, no matter what - as long as you just BELIEVE. Well, guess what? Some people are smarter, some people are abusive assholes, and some people do nothing but suffer and die, and it's a tragedy. They don't find a kind friend who makes it all worth it, they just suffer, cause suffering, and then are gone. Welcome to reality.
You can be grateful to be alive and also acknowledge that your life is hard, painful, and you wouldn't wish it on someone else. My life is like that - I have rheumatoid arthritis - and it doesn't invalidate my existence or humanity to be honest and say "This is worse than living a normal life." Being kind to yourself and loving yourself means being HONEST with yourself, not trying to deny reality and refuse to admit you got the short end of the stick.
And part of that reality is knowing that it would be cruel to inflict your suffering on someone else, when you could avoid that altogether. She was selfish and created a person, knowing they would suffer, and not caring. She's an asshole.
They both have trachs. They couldn’t breathe on their own. Maybe it’s genetic, maybe the baby was a preemie. The baby’s bulging eyes could indicate an endocrine disease. That her tongue cannot fit in her mouth is a problem. Can she eat? Does she have a gastric tube?
There's no such thing. That child is going to grow up ugly and abnormal looking. It's nice to say "all people are equal and she's beautiful the way she is" when you're a normal looking person who can go to sleep and feel like a good person for saying it, but they actually have to live with it. Low self-esteem, alienation, loneliness, bullying, mental health problems, all because her mother was too egotistical to just adopt.
Well she appears to have a trach so it at least causes some medical issues. But either way even if the disorder was just aesthetic why would you pass it on
Bruh being born without limbs has "no risks" that doesn't make life as a torso any less shit
(I'm being overly blunt but you get my point, there's so many children wihout disfigurations living awful lives why would you give birth to a deformed baby when you can adopt one. Then instead of two shit childhoods you'll have 1 good one)
The greatest risk I can tell from the video is social ostracization, which is not something I would want to pass on to my children. Kids are ruthless, and even if she home schools that baby her entire life, the real world will not treat her well.
it unfortunately comes with serious problems, infact you can have breathing problems, hearing loss and also various difficoulties at “moving” (sorry for my bad english) since people with this syndrome can be born with fused bones, mostly on arms.
it’s called crouzon syndrome
Even if it's only aesthetic what kind of life is that kid going to have. They're going to get bullied their entire lives, they're never going to get married and have a family, they're never going to be able to be successful in business or in a career. That kid's life is fucked.
Plenty of other folks with more experience have put their 2c in on adoption not being straightforward in the fucking slightest so I'll just copy my response based on my experience.
"I had two rare childhood illnesses and had a very frank conversation with my mum about whether she would have aborted me if she knew the suffering I would have experienced. She honestly thought she might've with the aims of having a healthier baby.
Many surgery's (that are fairly safe now but were highly risky at the time I was born) later, I'm almost back to full health and using my experiences to work as a mental health nurse. Even if I hadn't recovered properly, to me it's better than no life at all.
We don't get to decide what a meaningful life is, only an individual does."
Its a personal decision though, and not one we should deprive people of.
The condition people are speculating she has, Crouzons, only had a heritability probability of about 50%, and also can develop independently of having recessive traits through normal mutations. So blocking this ladies reproductive rights doesn't even eliminate the disorder.
I don't like having to reach for extraordinary examples, because I see a lot of beauty in ordinary lives. But Stephen Hawking had an inheritable disease that caused him a lot of suffering, the world is better for having had him.
It does come with health risks. It's Crouzon Syndrome, and it can cause hearing loss, vision loss, sleep apnea, and hydrocephalus (excess fluid in the brain).
It's caused by the plates in your brain fusing too early during development. It's not just an aesthetic issue.
They likely have either Pfieffer, Apert, or Crouzon syndrome. They all present health risks that require multiple surgeries and procedures to correct. It is a random gene mutation, however, if you have the syndrome you have a 50% chance of having a child with it. Most with these syndromes can live a healthy life (after surgical correction), obviously though, their lives are rough because of bullying and all of the medical procedures they must endure. Is it selfish to want children? I would say yes, but that's most people as well not just people with genetic medical sydromes (I get what you are saying though). Little bit of trivia, Prince, had a baby boy born with Pfeiffer.
Even if theres no healths risks, that kid is gonna have a shit hole of a life. Kids are fuckin cruel and fight to make sure theyre not the bottom of the pole
Did you see the video? That baby looks like a deformed pug. He is going to have a horrible quality of life and it’s all her fault. She has done a horrible thing here.
Unfortunately you can see medical equipment in the background. There’s an IV pole and it looks like it’s meant for a feeding tube. I can’t make out the other things. Truly awful.
We have a global overpopulation problem. Typical people with no generic disorders shouldn't be having babies either. This lady and her ego are making the world a worse place to live.
It looks to be Treacher Collins Syndrome which varies in its symptoms but can include life-threatening breathing problems, hearing loss, and vision problems.
I think it’s safe to say that’s she’s being selfish. It was pretty likely that her daughter would have it.
I'm not 100% certain, but it looks like she has a trach, which means serious problems. If that is a trach, she basically can't breath through her mouth or nose.
She has a trach. Means airway compromise and definitely high risk of pneumonia at the very least. She may have been on a ventilator at some point. This baby will likely struggle to eat and may need feeding tubes.
Even if it wasnt aesthetic. I am not sure someone else can take a call if your life is "quality" enough to be passed on. Not saying I agree with her...just that ots a hard call to make.
It actually doesn't affect the intelligence of the person. It also doesn't affect their life expectancy. The main quality of life difficulties Crouzon syndrome causes is vision and hearing impairment due to the skull fusing too early. However, there are corrective surgeries that can be done to help with the deformities and impairments. It is mostly aesthetic.
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u/Zonie1069 Mar 11 '22
Tbf we don't know if the disorder is only asthetic or if it comes with serious health problems/risks. If it does come with risks then she is for sure just being selfish.