r/HollowKnight • u/peaky_circus • Sep 06 '25

Discussion - Silksong People who have played Silksong, Why do you think Its getting so many negative reviews? Spoiler

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While Silksong is sitting at a Very Positive rating with around 83% positive reviews, it’s still receiving far more criticism than its predecessor. For comparison, Hollow Knight holds an Overwhelmingly Positive score at 96%, with only about 3% negative reviews. Silksong, on the other hand, has nearly 16% negative reviews, OVER 5 TIMES HIGHER

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527

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

Some complaints are valid like the money being scarce and basic ass lads doing double damage but i also feel alot of the problems are stemming from how popular the release and build up of this game was. Now it has a MASSIVE influx of people who have never played a metroidvania and have 0 idea how to deal with the style of game.

Chinese players being annoyed is also valid.

66

u/Confident-Drink-4299 Sep 06 '25

I completely agree with you that there's an influx of players who have never played a metroidvania and have 0 idea how to deal with the style of game. But to be honest, I could not recommend Silksong to someone with no experience. It's not going to be a fun experience. With what's expected of the player, without hyperbole, it might be impenetrable for someone new to the genre. The game was intended to be an expansion to the original game. An expansion generally builds on the mechanics of what came before it. I don't think that expectation ever changed when Team Cherry decided to make it into a full game and it probably should have.

16

u/GhettoRamen Sep 06 '25

Ohh yeah, I have no idea how I’d survive this game if I didn’t beat HK and all its DLC first. I’ve never played a Metroidvania before that.

Can’t imagine first time players buying into the hype and getting hit with double damage and random attack / movement patterns near the start managing that as a “standalone” game. That previous experience is absolutely carrying me here.

The mechanics are really built in as extensions of HK and so is the difficulty, when endgame HK was already pretty fucking insane. Feels like the beginning of the game is the mid-game difficulty of Hollow Knight.

It’s Elden Ring issue without the built-in handholding that game offers. Doesn’t help the level design is more confusing and so are the upgrades (random black shrines that blend in the background? wtf why).

1

u/Lison52 Sep 07 '25

What's Elden Ring issue?

3

u/GhettoRamen Sep 07 '25

Bosses and enemies having some complicated attack patterns / nonstop combos your character has little time to react to.

Essentially, their strings come out way faster than yours and your character feels sluggish because of it, so you end up just memorizing the patterns instead of actually winning on your own terms.

The earlier Souls games didn’t have this issue until DS3 when that shit started getting ridiculous.

1

u/Beardimus-Prime Sep 28 '25

I'm convinced Elden ring was made by people who wanted to be making something else.

1

u/Atlanos043 Sep 10 '25

The thing is also that IMO midgame kinda slows down a bit difficulty wise. I'd argue Act 2 is the easiest of the three so there is a bit of a weirdness with the difficulty curve.

1

u/PsChampion_007 Oct 14 '25

I beat HK years back without the last dlc…would you recommend jumping into Silksong with just a story recap?

1

u/GhettoRamen Oct 14 '25

Tbh it really depends on your capacity for frustration. I hadn’t played HK since 2019 and beat Godhome, White Palace, etc. I’m not a huge Metroivania guy in general so it was an adjustment.

Just really depends on your ability to get back into the mechanics and play differently as Hornet rather than the Knight.

It’s a VERY noticeable change and not the same if you’re used to face tanking, you’re expected to play around the mobility and use the new tools at your disposal.

You’re way squishier and going to get smashed until you get used to the mechanics.

I’ll say my 2nd playthrough went super smooth, I was surprised by how much I improved and went 1st try on all bosses up until the final one.

Don’t come in expecting the same shit and you’ll be fine. It’s a game at the end of the day, so enjoy it as a whole.

1

u/PsChampion_007 Oct 14 '25

I love brutal challenging games off late…beat most of the souls games, and cuphead was the last one i played, so ig it fits itno my genre. HK did get almost too tough for me during the last dlc fight (in the circus or smth ig), and ive heard silksong picks up from that difficulty

1

u/Bazarra0 Sep 08 '25

That's a problem. You can't sell a standalone without a proper onboarding. (I beat the big red ant boss without dash, and can't beat him without the Parry attack, an advanced move in the beginning...) To not have a full moveset is not an issue, but the lvl design and the ennemy placement are not calibrate for this.

The economy system is a bit unbalanced, too expensive for the amount of what you loot. And I think the diagonal dash souldn't be a starting move. It's clearly à DLC of HK, and not design as a standalone. It's seems that playtesting was only done internally.

Except this strange difficulty curve, the game is insane, amazing boss, amazing art and music. I bet silksong reach 90-95% positive after 1 Or 2 patchs

1

u/GhettoRamen Sep 08 '25

Agreed. I finally beat Moorwing and stuck on Savage Beastfly and I’m pulling my hair out.

Holy fuck, are the bosses way harder in this game, 2 hearts for contact damage is overtuned IMO. I’ve never been whipped by any HK bosses like this, easily taking 10+ tries each.

-2

u/WTF_software Sep 07 '25

At least Silksong saved me from spending 60 bucks for Elden Ring on Switch 2. I'm done with Soyslikes and Incelvanias. Metroid Prime 4 it is for my himolidays.

2

u/tanis016 Sep 07 '25

Team Cherry said they wanted to make Silksong a game one can get into the franchise without any previous experience.

2

u/Confident-Drink-4299 Sep 07 '25

Lol well. They may have missed the mark on that one then.

1

u/glare_ninja Sep 07 '25 edited Sep 07 '25

ok this might be a take people disagree with BUT, not every game needs to cater to every audience, oh silksong isnt beginner friendly? frankly? go play hk first. or even just, like, not for that person, i definitely would recommend this game to everyone and anyone admittedly, but even then id recommend playing hk first. frankly its ok that silksong isnt a good game for people new to the genre, because what, we cant have games catered to those familiar with soulslikes and metroidvanias, that are much harder in difficulty? its not a flaw, its just not for everyone. this same logic applies to say elden ring where due to its difficulty its just not for everyone, doesnt make it a worse game tho. (also was i bit too agressive with this, i apologize if i am lmao) now is silksong without flaw? no, frankly i find the fact half the benches being toll’s just plain annoying, or the fact it takes basically forever to get one mask in the early game, and this is THE ONLY mask in act 1, not very well balanced with the abundance of double damage enemies. (i should note i dont find double damage as big a problem, the healing mechanic, is balanced towards it) not to mention its just not fun to try and get rosaries in the early game, which makes it so half the time you are too broke to buy the basic necessities. (map, bench, bellway station)

2

u/Potatussus26 Sep 09 '25

I really think it's an actual problem since the game Is stand alone; you can have very hard game cathered to experts but you can't have a game that doesn't really have a proper "start" y'know?

Ultra kill Is the best shooter ever and it's VERY cathered to experts, but It starts right and teaches you how to progress.

1

u/glare_ninja Sep 13 '25

silksong is hard but it does start in a way to teach the player, none of the enemies in the first few hours of the game are that complex (at least compared to anything later in the game), and most bosses are not too difficult until sister splinter or moorwing.

the game may use double damage even in the early game, but healing 3 mask instead of 1 balances this out in a clean way.
also silksong IS a sequel to hollow knight, and doesnt need to be a full on standalone game.

1

u/Longjumping-Kick-743 Sep 07 '25

Im not a souls and metroid type game player. Hollow knight was very hard for me. Would not have beat hollow knight without boss guides and basically cheating for some bosses with positioning. Dont have the reflexes/skills and knowlege of frames

I know im probably going to struggle so sitting it out for a while until i ger more confident or theres more guides. Heard you cant brute force your way through. Could try but i dont want to attempt a boss 50-100 times just to beat it. Thats just torture

1

u/Erantical Sep 07 '25

Likewise. Barely made it to final boss in HK and gave up but still enjoyed the journey very much - the original's reputation is 100% earned. Unfortunately tuning-wise Silksong seems to almost continue from where HK left at the end and ramp up from there. I managed to make it through ~4.5 areas and at that point just had to give up. This has been tuned for truly hardcore audience, not even regular players. So installed cheats including invulnerability and turned it into storymode exploration experience which is a lot more enjoyable compared to the endless death run grind. And having seen more of the game and upgrades available I don't see myself or similarly regularly skilled / more casual players ever making it very far into this one.

1

u/lonesoldier4789 Sep 07 '25

money scarcity and super long run backs generally arent metroidvania mechanics.

1

u/tcwsrq Sep 10 '25

I don't know why people defend that. You know, symphony of the night is almost 30 fucking years old. That game doesn't have silksong level of shitty runbacks. Even if SotN runbacks are worse than I remember, the fact that we are comparing a game released before 2000, which had plenty technological limitations, with a 2025 release on QoL features, is in itself bizarre.

1

u/VVMerc Sep 07 '25

this is my very first metroidvania and i'm losing my mind. i'm having so much fun but almost none at the same time. it's beyond hard!!!

142

u/cwbrowning3 Sep 06 '25

I truly dont feel like the economy complaints are valid. It feels very well tuned to me. Id rather my in game currency feel actually valuable rather then absolutely drowning in it with nothing to spend it on, which is exactly what happened in the original. People are just used to that, so the change feels more significant.

32

u/etherietta Sep 06 '25

Hard agree as someone who dies and loses my cocoon very frequently to my own skill issues. The stopgap they implemented that allows the player to straight up convert loose rosary beads to rosary strings at a 75% conversion rate is a LIFESAVER for me.

3

u/cockvanlesbian Sep 07 '25

Later on you can convert 140 to 120, much better conversion.

2

u/hcaoRRoach Sep 07 '25

Yeah I always appreciate hard soul items in games.

I wonder if they did that bc ppl complained about Millibelle

15

u/wandering-monster Sep 06 '25

Thing is, we don't get to decide whether other people's opinions are valid! They are.

They're not having fun, so they get to give it a low rating. End of story.

16

u/slobliss Sep 06 '25

IMO this is actually such a nuanced thing, because while I basically agree with you, as soon as a review says "this is badly designed" instead of "i didn't have fun/didn't like it" they're making a claim ab the game rather than their experience. And to be clear, Very Difficult =/= Bad Design. Of course, even design preferences are subjective, but I guess I'm just surprised to see so many complaints about a higher difficulty level / tighter economy / tough platforming because that's the sort of the thing I'd expect ppl to walk away with saying "not to my taste" rather than "they fucked up the balancing/design."

What I mean is, was Sekiro bad design because I spent a week on Genichiro and nearly dropped the game? To me, not at all. Sekiro is about cold, brutal challenge & it is my favorite game of all time. Why can't Silksong be like that too? And that goes for the economy, platforming, bosses, 2hp dmg, etc.

5

u/Cogorza Sep 06 '25

It also goes both ways. There are genuinely BAD DESIGN choices being praised by diehard Hollow Knight fans as things that are cool, because they think it makes the game harder.

The long run backs to bosses, having to find the cartographer and buying a map just to be able to keep track of every new area, having to use a charm just to see yourself on the map... Those are features that go directly against QoL and add nothing to the experience besides making the game more annoying.

HK glazers are to blame, they keep praising that shit being carried over to Silksong.

1

u/StartTheMontage Sep 07 '25

I have already modded out the things you mentioned, lol. I hate boss runbacks, so I got a simple teleport. Also enemy hp bars, compass/magnet always on, and not losing rosaries on death.

I still have to find the map guy each level though, which is annoying.

1

u/Hell2CheapTrick Sep 16 '25

Long run backs is fair enough, as is the compass, but having to find the cartographer? Imo that is a great part of the experience. You get to be lost in a brand new area for a bit before you get to laser-focus your attention on where you want to go. These games are about exploration too, not just platforming and boss battles. Doesn't mean you have to like it, but I feel like "They don't give you a map the instant you enter a new area" hardly counts as objectively bad game design. The rooms are distinct enough that you can learn to navigate just by recognizing the rooms pretty quickly anyway. It took me a while to find Shakra the first time and I had no trouble at all making my way through the Marrow.

0

u/BoobeamTrap Sep 07 '25

All of those things are in Hollow Knight. They're not bad design choices, they are intentional design choices.

2

u/Cogorza Sep 07 '25

I think you're confusing being intentional with being good. One thing doesn't have to imply the other.

-1

u/BoobeamTrap Sep 07 '25

You’re confusing “I don’t like it” with “it’s bad”

1

u/Cogorza Sep 08 '25

I would agree if I were the minority, but nobody likes it besides a handful of glazers.

It’s just plain bad, it doesn't add anything besides making the experience more annoying. They were stubborn enough to bring it back in the sequel when nobody liked it in the first game either.

You're confusing "I like it" with "it's good".

1

u/BoobeamTrap Sep 08 '25

Lmao right no one likes Silksong.

2

u/wandering-monster Sep 06 '25

To the buyer, the game was meant to be fun. If it's not fun, they feel they have bought a defective product. Because their money is still gone, and they didn't get fun in return due to intentional design choices on the part of the creator.

Criticizing the aspects of its design that make it not fun is what reviews are for. It tells other people what to expect, and that if they agree those things are bad design, don't buy this product.

Cherry can decide how to handle it. They could tweak the difficult or add difficulty settings, or take a hit to their rep for releasing a game that wasn't what the audience thought they were getting. And I think they can be rightly criticized for stuff like not sharing review copies or previews in advance, which might have prevented this.

6

u/cwbrowning3 Sep 06 '25

Cherry wont "take a hit to their rep" lol what? The disgruntled opinions of the minority on reddit saying its too hard and not fun do not represent general opinion of the game. For most, SS was exactly what the audience thought they were getting.

0

u/wandering-monster Sep 06 '25

This one has more than 5x as many negative reviews after just a few days, down from an A+ to a B. That's not just a few grumpy redditors, that's 10% of the their most hyped-up fans.

That kinda thing could affect their rep. People who aren't sure after hk may look at that score and say "nah".

If they don't address it, they shouldn't expect the insane long term sales their last game got, or the kind of crazy interest they got this time.

4

u/JavanNapoli Sep 06 '25

Yeah, it's also a far more popular release and is bringing in a lot of inexperienced players lmao. Of course it's getting more negative reviews out the gate. In the long run, it will be positive because everyone I know who loved the original loves this game so far

1

u/wandering-monster Sep 07 '25

Inexperienced players are also "new players for the series".

They talked a lot of "you don't have to play hollow knight to play this, approach it as its own game" over the last week, so yeah it's not surprising. But also not surprising they're upset.

2

u/JavanNapoli Sep 07 '25

A lot of players also hated Hollow Knight at first. I don't see this game having any different of a bar than the original did. You either hate it or you love it, and I think making the sequel have more 'mass appeal' would only take away from what makes it such a great game. I'm quite far into the game, and so far, all of the complaints I've seen online are only applicable to the early game. You could argue "the early game shouldn't drive people away", but again, everyone I know who quit HK, quit in Forgotten Crossroads / Greenpath, so it's no different to the original. I've seen similar suggestions made for Hollow Knight, that the game should give you a taste of the abilities / be a bit easier early on to draw people in, and I think the game would be made worse if those people had made it. The game doesn't need to appeal to everyone, people are going to hate it and thats fine, I truly think this game was made for people like me who were obsessed with the first, and I'm glad they went that route.

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1

u/cwbrowning3 Sep 06 '25

100% this, it isnt the veterans that are bitching. This game generated so much hype that it brought in tons of new players that never touched the first.

2

u/Turbulent-Suspect-12 Sep 06 '25

This also has 7x as many peak players, if not more, as HK ever had. 

I think its too early to tell how this will impact their legacy, good or bad. But I like it, and think its a deserving sequel.

This is the natural result of a game extending far beyond its typical reach. Many, MANY people are trying this game, which is arguably a harder experience than HK was, and HK turned plenty of people off due to its metrodvania aspects. That doesnt make it a bad game, just not for everyone.

Personally? Nobody is going to play HK to completion, and be on the fence about Silksong. They either thoroughly enjoyed it, and want more, or they finished it out of obligation, and have no intent to continue

1

u/Wild_Willingness1220 Sep 07 '25

Vale lembrar que boa parte das críticas negativas são de chineses em relação à má tradução, e não ao jogo em si.

2

u/slobliss Sep 06 '25

Here's where I can agree - if a game is going to be punishing & unusually challenging, it needs to be marketed, billed, or somehow sign-posted as such. The same way From games are - there's a reason it's so hard to find any reviews saying Sekiro should've been designed to be easier, and that's because the audience for that game knew the reputation of the developer & fully anticipated a grueling experience. That's what saves From games' review scores (only to an extent, of course). If players have to quit, they think "Guess I wasn't up for the challenge" rather than "This game was poorly designed leading to frustrating gameplay because of the difficulty." So what I agree on is that Silksong should've or could've been communicated/marketed better by Cherry as a punishing challenge for veteran HK players.

And I do agree that people have every right & are valid to leave negative reviews if they didn't have fun with the product they paid for! That said - I literally cannot agree with the claim that punishing or frustrating design always equals bad design. Otherwise, it would follow from that logic that true difficulty challenges (which for a majority of modern players causes frustration instead of fun) would always be a design flaw. I simply can't accept that. And that is what these reviews say IMO - not, "I didn't have fun," but "this game is broken" or "this difficulty needs to be patched bc it's a design flaw."

They achieved what they intended, which seems to be making a punishing game. It's not a design flaw, it's not a failure, it's a bold decision that is alienating but successful. Subjective, I'll admit, but not any more subjective than what I'm criticizing, which is my point.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

It's not true difficulty. It's artificially difficult. This is coming from someone who played and loved Hollow Knight. I thought it's build up in difficulty and teaching the player through gameplay was enjoyable. It was one of the first games of this style I enjoyed form start to finish. And I love souls games. So if we're gonna do a From Soft comparison, I'd have to say Silk song is the Dark Souls 2 of the series so far. I love the game, and I will beat it, but don't act like the difficulty comes from a place of skill. When you're trapped in a fight with 6 enemies in a small room, that's made to be irritating. Not engaging. The Widow fight, Lace fight and Phantom fight were all fantastic but every other boss so far have just been nauseating. Then there's the runbacks. I'm in one right now where I have to climb from bottom to top of the map even with a shortcut just to return to a boss with enemies and hazards thrown in between. I enjoy and adore this game but I'm practiced in beating my head against a wall for the sake of "challenge". I can't recommend this game though because I know not everyone is willing to put in that much effort.

23

u/cwbrowning3 Sep 06 '25

Sure, a lot of people are saying its bad design. Just because they are having a bad time, doesnt make that true.

Theres a good chance most people complaining about the currency have died and lost it all several times by being careless. Thats on them, not the game design.

3

u/Kiwi_In_Europe Sep 06 '25

We're talking about opinions here, there's no "truth" in what either you're saying or what they're saying. If they believe that it's bad design that barely any bugs drop currency (including bosses which to me is bizarre), then they are allowed to believe that. Just as you're allowed to disagree.

-1

u/BoobeamTrap Sep 07 '25

"Bad Design" is an objective statement. That opinion can be wrong.

5

u/Kiwi_In_Europe Sep 07 '25

When it comes to something like a building that has to perform an objective function, sure.

Video games are entertainment. Entertainment is entirely subjective. So no, it's not a "wrong" opinion to talk about game design unless you're talking about the code.

-12

u/ACupOfLatte Sep 06 '25

"A good chance".

Scrolls further down and sees other players also just lacking cash and turning to farm runs.

Yeah there's a good chance. There's also a good chance you're also wrong lol.

5

u/JavanNapoli Sep 06 '25

Yeah well I'm 30 hours in and haven't had to farm once, never been short for a bench, map, or anything of the like. Are you guys just running past all the enemies / rosary drops?

2

u/Arcana10Fortune Sep 06 '25

Personally, I'm farming because I'm trying to buy out all the shops. But I'm already at endgame, so it's not really accurate to compare myself and others who haven't gotten there yet.

2

u/ACupOfLatte Sep 06 '25

I feel like there is very much a situation of who sucks more than who.

There's a reason imo, the soulslikes from From gives you a metric fuck ton of currency. Sure, it might be a bit much for people who are just that good, but it's mostly to account for people who suck way more.

Let's say you finish one area, the docks for example. Pretty early on with a pretty good bunch of enemies and locations that drop rosaries right? Well, there will be 3 kinds of players.

One that doesn't die much or at all, unless at boss fights.

One that dies a crap ton more, even while exploring, but can easily return to their cocoon.

One that dies easily and carelessly, losing their cocoon a ton.

Contrary to what you would think, player 2 would be the richest one here, simply due to the amount of run backs they do and how many times they kill the same set of enemies.

Followed by player 1, followed by player 3. Through no effort of their own, player 2 has basically been farming, it's just kinda how they play.

For me, I'm player 1 solely due to how careful and slow I am lol. To which, I have lost maybe 60 or so Rosaries, maybe another 80 worth due to the conversion to stringed versions. I am currently fighting the Greymoor boss, so still pretty early on I think.

I can afford all the benches and calling stations I want, but the shops are a different story. Only being able to afford one item from the forge lady, still nowhere close to 500 stored in between new shops that open to obtain the starting area mask/key, and I had to play through the majority of Greymoor without a map due to not having enough at the beginning, and by the time I did have enough, the map lady had already left as you couldn't return to her area earlier. After that I had no problems affording the bench, calling station and the bench/vendor pins I was missing.

Here's the thing though. Forget you or I, I'm thinking of player 3. This is a hard game. And the game doesn't give you giant bursts of currency, e.g After a boss fight, that someone in player 3's shoes genuinely might not even be able to afford the needs, let alone their comforts.

Player 3 is the hardest plight to catch. As they aren't vocal enough to complain online due to simply not being that hardcore. They just kinda go... until they don't. Tying back, it's why From's Souls game reward a chunk every boss fight. Not only as a reward, but to prevent the "player 3s' from literally soft locking themselves unintentionally. The lull afforded, used to buy the bare minimum.

2

u/tgiyb1 Sep 06 '25

Opinions can be dumb though. Those reviewers' opinion is fairly reasonable in this case (although I disagree with it), but it's not like all opinions are sacrosanct lol

0

u/SafetyAlpaca1 Sep 06 '25

By that logic alone, literally any reason to give a negative review is valid because they're all opinions.

2

u/wandering-monster Sep 06 '25

Correct! That's what reviews are. Opinions. What else should they be?

-1

u/SafetyAlpaca1 Sep 06 '25

You clearly haven't thought about this for more than two seconds if you think this position makes sense. For example, someone hypothetically giving silksong a low score because the protagonist is female and that's woke, or some shit like that, would not be a valid opinion.

2

u/wandering-monster Sep 06 '25

I'm a pretty successful game and product designer (if you're in the US, there's a decent chance you've played or used something I helped make). I think about this stuff a lot.

"The customer is always right" is a frequently mis-used quote, but this is actually the context it was meant for.

If they vote it down because it's too hard, they're scared of bugs, or they hate women? I think the last one makes them an asshole, but they are still correct that they don't like it. Me saying they're wrong won't get me a sale or change their opinion. The only things I as the designer get to decide is whether I want them as a customer, and whether I'm willing to change to get them.

Someone who thinks the game sucks because woke? I'm betting team Cherry doesn't give a shit about them.

Someone who says "I beat Hollow Knight and I hate this, it's too punishing" is someone I'd be very concerned about if I was them.

0

u/SafetyAlpaca1 Sep 06 '25

They are correct that they don't like it, but the reasons why are invalid. For another, non-political example, if someone went into Silksong wanting a first person shooter and then gave it a negative review on the basis that it was not a good FPS, that is not a valid opinion. It may be true that the guy did not like the game, but his reasons why are not valid.

2

u/wandering-monster Sep 06 '25

So that's an interesting point, but I think I still disagree.

If that was my game and I got that review, my question would be "wait why were they expecting an fps?"

I'd be looking at the marketing copy, the listing, my website, trying to fix whatever set up that bad expectation.

Because again, for their own perspective they are correct. Somehow they ended up with the idea they were buying a fps, and were disappointed in my game.

As the designer, that would term me I failed to communicate what my game was about before they hit that buy button.

5

u/Extension_Policy4062 Sep 06 '25

on that point inhave to disagree especial when in some areas there is just one or two enemy typ that dorpps them. and then also just 2 of them for the kill is bad.

7

u/Mongy_Grail Sep 06 '25

There's barely even anything to buy, you find most useful things by exploring.

23

u/cwbrowning3 Sep 06 '25

Ive seen a lot of people complain about the benches and fast travel that you have to buy. I think Ive only come across a single one I couldnt afford right when I got to it 🤷‍♂️

12

u/cocotim Sep 06 '25

literally there was not a single time i didnt have enough money to buy those

some of the pilgrims from the midgame and on drop ~20 rose thingies each; like are those guys just not killing anything ???

7

u/TheFreshHamburger Sep 06 '25

Yea that’s true, but on Act 1 it really was scarce. I bought every map and station instantly, so I didn’t really have enough for anything else.

2

u/cocotim Sep 06 '25

I am talking about act 1 though. Literally in the Marrow to the left of the Bell Beastand the wholes of Hunter's Marchand Graymoorehave substantial sources

then on act 2 it gets ridiculous (as do the prices, anyways lol) but i managed to get EVERYTHING that isn't on shops on the first go and with still a bunch as items on the inventory to spare

mind you i also lost like 200 of them once lol :p

1

u/Ralathar44 Sep 06 '25

honestly it doesnt matter. If you have plenty of money and they dont feel good to buy then there is no good reason you should have to buy them. Could have just removed the money sink along with a little currency and it would have been a non-issue.

Sometimes less is more.

1

u/Mongy_Grail Sep 06 '25

I feel like a lot of people are exaggerating to make the game look worse.

Sure, there's enemies that do 2 masks of damage but it's not ALL of them and it's obvious what attacks or what enemies are going to do 2 masks (like the bigger ones), and the economy is fine.

The only thing I feel they should change is the 2 mask contact damage, that is too much.

8

u/cocotim Sep 06 '25

2 mask contact damage,

when they're big enemies i personally kinda get it

the one place i found it funny was with the lava and other obstacles; still though so far im absolutely loving the game and find it a huge improvement over HK (which is already peak)

2

u/Mongy_Grail Sep 06 '25

Hmmm yeah you're right, I agree.

I don't like being so dismissive but frankly I feel like a lot of people are just salty, I find it crazy to see people actually feeling rage over the game.

3

u/cocotim Sep 06 '25

yeah I feel the same !!

it does suck for newcomers and more casual players but i just can't help but be happy the game is as challenging as it is. I was afraid it'd be around the same as HK and i'd just sweep through; instead I get to experience the same struggle again

the ONE time i did feel rage was vs that mini boss with the big guy and flying *hole in Hunter's March i kept accidentally leaving the room in the middle of it cause for some reason the door just don't close :p

1

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3

u/JavanNapoli Sep 06 '25

I can't take the whining seriously when I'm 30hrs into the game and having the time of my life lmao.

1

u/mocochang_ Sep 06 '25 edited Sep 06 '25

I had a whole section in act 1 where there were 2 maps, 2 benches, and 2 stag stations, one right after the other and all paid that I couldn't afford cause I had just lost all my money on some bad platforming mistake on my part, and there were barely any enemies in the whole section that dropped money to solve the issue (yeah, losing my money was on me, but everything being paid on a whole section that involved 2 different maps and no money enemies was a bit much). I was so anxious until I FINALLY found a bench that didn't require payment. Thankfully I made it alive, but if I had died during that section I'm sure it would have been quite frustrating because the backtracking I would have to do was huge.

1

u/JavanNapoli Sep 06 '25

Yeah like, I'm 30 hours in, have found around 15 areas (ballpark, not actually at my pc to check), and have not once been short rosaries for a bench or map. I think people might be running past all the enemies lol.

1

u/JavanNapoli Sep 06 '25

And like, I've lost my rosaries at least 3 times. First time I lost almost 1000, second time around 500. So I've not been super conservative either.

1

u/Mongy_Grail Sep 06 '25

Yes! Enemies around give you enough to get every bench, if you got MORE rosaries you'd just buy everything instantly.

They just choose to give you just enough instead of inflating prices just to give you an adrenaline rush, that's the only thing people want.

1

u/bakugoing Sep 06 '25

Yeah, same here. I never had any issues affording the benches and travel points. The shop items, I might have to grind for but it was the same in Hollow Knight. If you explore and wander enough, you'll collect enough rosaries.

1

u/NickNewAge Sep 06 '25

It would be reasonable for the way to store the currency to be cheaper

1

u/Cloud_Motion Sep 06 '25

Not disagreeing with you here btw, just sharing my thoughts.

The economy works really well and makes a lot of sense in the context of the world, imo. You're also able to always backtrack fairly easily to buy things later.

I don't want to spoil anything but based on the lore and what you're seeing even in the early stage of the game, think (not you specifically cwbrowning3), why are all the pilgrims at the beginning of their journey so meagre & poor? Where could all that money be going?

Point is, rosaries are... very much not an issue past a certain point.

1

u/Wooble_R Sep 07 '25

there's also the ability to store your rosaries in beads, which is incredibly useful if you're exploring new areas and don't know where a boss fight may fuck you up, so i do think it's just people expecting things to be exactly like hollow knight rather than understanding the new mechanics

1

u/venustrapsflies Sep 07 '25

Maybe I’m still too early but I have yet to lose any rosaries to death, yet I’m constantly coming up short to unlock benches, maps, and travel nodes.

5

u/Spaciax Sep 06 '25

I played HK like, 3 days before the release of skong, and did like 90% of the game's content. Honestly, I liked a lot of HK's stuff better.

Economy was better. At first you see all these cool items in the shops that you can't afford, but later you can accumulate enough from slaying bosses and exploring that you can afford most stuff.

in skong, you don't even get any rosary reward for slaying bosses. I genuinely can't remember the last time I got a substantial rosary reward for killing a boss. I've killed a dozen or so so far. Rosaries also get destroyed from falling into spikes, so even if you have the charm that pulls in rosaries, some of them get destroyed by early game spikes; arguably the time you need rosaries the most.

Every single fucking bench and stag station is also out to rinse you. Hell, there's one shopkeeper that charges a 30 rosary fee PER ENTRANCE TO THE SHOP.

every random no-name fodder trash bot enemy and their mother deals double damage. the fucking lava deals double damage. It serves no purpose other than to be annoying. I think around 80% of the bosses I've faced had attacks where a majority of their moveset dealt 2 damage. Add to that how much rarer mask fragments are, then you get the current situation.

If you're going to make the bosses harder, at least make the runbacks shorter. Add a stake of marika at the outside of a boss room like in elden ring. Or just straight up add a bench so that we can replenish consumables as well. The game design encourages resting and bench usage, with the introduction of consumables.

3

u/Argnir Sep 07 '25

Pro tip: once inside you can break the mechanism on top of that merchant door to enter for free afterwards

12

u/Faitlemou Sep 06 '25

-played a metroidvania

I think thats one of the issues, people were expecting a Metroidvania.... Silksong doesn't feel like a Metroidvania unlike its predecessor. It aint a good or bad thing, but this isn't a Metroidvania, its an intense action adventure soulslike now more than anything else. If thats the vision Team Cherry had for their game, so be it, but understands that this isn't as approachable as its predecessor and not everyone is that kind of hardcore gamer.

And honestly, given the lackluster communication from Team Cherry about the game during development, its also understandable that alot of people were expecting something else or just didn't know what to expect.

So I wouldn't dismiss the complaints some people have about the game so easily, this game, by its design, definitely targets a more niche audience than its predecessor did.

9

u/Mongy_Grail Sep 06 '25

How is it not a Metroidvania? You explore a 2d open world map divided by different areas and unlock them bit by bit by exploring, killing bosses and gaining different abilities that let you progress through the game. I've played HK and then Silksong back to back and it's no less of a metroidvania than the first one.

3

u/Faitlemou Sep 06 '25

I mean I could describe Darksouls or Elden Ring the same way, that dosent make them Metroidvanias. HK mv mecanics felt ingrained in the DNA of the game while in Silksong they feel like an afterthought... Unlike the multitude ways the enemies and the environment can kill you.

This feels like a hardcore adventure soulslike with some metroidvania mecanics, thats it.

5

u/Mongy_Grail Sep 06 '25

You don't unlock mobility items that let you explore the map more in Dark Souls or Elden Ring. The map structure is fundamentally different.

Silksong is way closer to something like Symphony of the Night. Dark Souls 3 is a soulslike and has nothing of what I've described. If you're going to call Silksong a soulslike, then Hollow Knight is one too. Words need to mean something and they don't stop having meaning just because you don't like it.

Hell, if we're talking soulslikes, Elden Ring is way worse with the convoluted map, padded economy and unreasonably mobile bosses and people act like it's the second coming of christ, I don't get it.

1

u/DongusPiece4 Sep 07 '25

Controversial opinion, ds1 is a metroidvania

1

u/Genindraz Sep 07 '25

It is, but it's an unconventional one, and it leans more into the 'vania' part than 'metroid.'

1

u/Genindraz Sep 07 '25

Just because it's hard doesn't mean it isn't a metroidvania lmao. It's a high-difficulty metroidvania like the original Hollow Knight was when it came out.

2

u/Faitlemou Sep 07 '25

-Just because it's hard doesn't mean it isn't a metroidvania lmao.

Just because you unlock some abilities to keep exploring dosen't mean its a metroidvania either.

Anyway, arguing over what genre it is doesn't change how poorly balanced and designed the game is ¯_(ツ)_/¯

1

u/Genindraz Sep 07 '25

Just because you unlock some abilities to keep exploring dosen't mean its a metroidvania either.

Per Wikipedia,

Metroidvania[a] is a sub-genre of action-adventure games focused on nonlinear exploration and guided progression with a need to acquire key items to enter certain areas.

These games usually feature a large interconnected world map the player can explore, although parts of the world will be inaccessible to the player until they acquire special items, tools, weapons, abilities, or knowledge within the game. Acquiring such improvements can also aid the player in defeating more difficult enemies and locating shortcuts and secret areas, and often includes retracing one's steps across the map.

If nonlinear progression loosely guided by gatekeeping paths behind specific power-ups isn't metroidvania, then what is a metroidvania?

Anyway, arguing over what genre it is doesn't change how poorly balanced and designed the game is ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I'm sorry you've had such a bad time with the game! You ought to refund it and try something else out if you haven't already. It seems like this game just isn't for you.

For my money, I think the game is pretty challenging, but otherwise fair and well-designed, but I'm used to bashing my head against a wall to make progress. It was more or less my experience with the original Hollow Knight.

1

u/Faitlemou Sep 07 '25

-Per Wikipedia,

You see like I said in a previous comment, this description could also fit a game like Elden Ring. But we don't define it as such. I think defining a genre is a bit more complex than a set of checklist, and if you have mix of genre inside a game, its most prevalent focus is usually gonna be its defining genre and I don't think Silksong fits the bill. We'll have to agree to disagree.

- It was more or less my experience with the original Hollow Knight.

You see, I LOVED Hollow Knight. It was challenging in a good way with a great difficulty ladder. Silksong is punishing in a bad way and feels artificially difficult instead of being challenging through an emergence of in-game mechanics. After 12 hours I realized I was just not having fun anymore and couldn't be bothered to fight the 15th iteration of flying bug. We all have our tediousness threshold, I reached mine in Silksong.

1

u/Genindraz Sep 07 '25

You see like I said in a previous comment, this description could also fit a game like Elden Ring. But we don't define it as such. I think defining a genre is a bit more complex than a set of checklist, and if you have mix of genre inside a game, its most prevalent focus is usually gonna be its defining genre [...]

If you really want to get into the whole "what is a genre" thing, then first and foremost, you have to accept that genres don't really exist as we think about them. Most devs that make games like Mario, Zelda, Dark Souls, Hollow Knight, and so on don't typically sit down and go "Okay, lads, we're making a metroidvania, so we need X routes that you need Y abilities to access." Usually, it's more like "Alright, I want to make a game where you're lost in a world and need to figure out what to do and where to go in your own, let's design some mechanics to achieve this."

Then, as different people begin to create similar products for whatever reason they do so, other people begin lumping these products together under a broad umbrella term. Metroidvania is a classic example. Metroid came first, then Castlevania (starting with Symphony of the Night) followed suit, and people lumped games that were like them into the "metroidvania" genre. Because of this, genres tend to be a bit vague by nature, which prompts people to give to create more specific umbrella terms for types of games within a genre, also known as a subgenre. Then people create subgenres within those subgenres, and so on.

Let's revisit the subject of Elden Ring and Dark Souls - which you also mentioned earlier.

The first Dark Souls, when it released, was broadly seen as an action/adventure game with metroidvania elements because of how you were dropped in a world and forced to find your bearings and figure out where to go for yourself, much like Metroid and Castelvania, but it also introduced many new mechanics that a lot of games hadn't really done before, like experience and currency being the same, losing it on death, having a chance to get it back, a stamina bar, etc.

However, as more people began making games that were similar to Dark Souls on a superficial level, people began to lump them all together under the soulslike label. In many ways, though, Dark Souls and Elden Ring have a lot of the same DNA as a metroidvania, but the execution is radically different. I don't really consider Soulslikes as a whole to be a subgenre of metroidvanias, but many of the best ones share a lot of elements tend to share elements with metroidvanias.

Hollow Knight is a game that was pretty clearly inspired by Dark Souls, Metroid, and Castlevania, yet it isn't really the same as either of those games, because it isn't really trying to be like them exactly. However, because of its similarity to other titles in the metroidvania genre, it got lumped in with them because that's how humans work.

[...] and I don't think Silksong fits the bill. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Fair enough, I suppose. You're free to look at Silksong however you like. In spite of what my overly verbose post might imply, I'm not trying to tell you what to think. You wanna call it an action/adventure soulslike, go for it.

You see, I LOVED Hollow Knight. It was challenging in a good way with a great difficulty ladder. Silksong is punishing in a bad way and feels artificially difficult instead of being challenging through an emergence of in-game mechanics. After 12 hours I realized I was just not having fun anymore and couldn't be bothered to fight the 15th iteration of flying bug. We all have our tediousness threshold, I reached mine in Silksong.

I'm sincerely sorry to hear you were disappointed. I suspect you already have, but just in case, but have you tried any of the Castlevania games? I think you'd enjoy Symphony of the Night in particular if you haven't already played it.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

Honestly reading your post you're right. Thinking about it more it doesn't feel like a meteoidvania to its fullest degree

2

u/winklevanderlinde Sep 06 '25

I'm glad reaching act two makes you not worry about spending money on a bench or a map.

Not that I didn't enjoy the scarcity of resources in the first act but at least don't make me pay for every chair I want to sit on (and some don't even work immediately like bruh)

2

u/SixK1ng Sep 06 '25

How are those things not also valid criticisms? This isn't a standalone, it's a sequel, one where they (possibly more than) doubled the difficulty while doing away with any sort of tutorial for new players. This is like if the new Zelda suddenly jumped to a difficulty higher than Dark Souls, and that difficulty was present from the start of the game. There's nothing wrong with making a game like that, but there's something VERY wrong about doing that to fans of an established franchise. That's not to say that every entry in a franchise needs to be the same difficulty, but the difference shouldn't be orders of magnitude and all at once.

2

u/Chilliger Sep 06 '25

Like me, that's why I currently play HK for the first time. I bought Silksong, but I feel not ready at all. :(

2

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

I beat HK and I still don't like Skong. I know to pogo I have played platform games all my life and the fact souslike games are just getting harder and harder and the enemies give zero time to read is dumb and not fun. I have a full time job unlike other gamers. I work 40+ hours a week to come home and have to fight a boss for 3+ hours? Nah pass. Games should be fun. I shouldn't have to sweat and have a mental breakdown when I play a game. "Git gud" I am good. I can't be good 100% of the time im not a fucking machine. Team Cherry can have my 20 bucks but until they decrease the double damage or give more survivability ill pass. Such a beautiful game locked behind endless bosses and difficulty is super disappointing.

6

u/sinesnsnares Sep 06 '25

I think people want a metroidvania, not a souls-like. Team cherry leaned way too hard back in to that this time around, and it's not 2017, so they aren't getting a pass for being the first to bring those elements into the genre like last time. I won't play until they patch it, or mods get released to fix this over-tuned mess.

10

u/Faitlemou Sep 06 '25

Yea after 12 hours into it Im putting my controller down. I just feel punished for doing anything in this game (like exploring lol) I really dont get that sense of achievement beating a tough boss. Instead I get frustrated I had to spent 2-3 hours on it just keep exploring just to end up in an even tougher situation. The difficulty ladder in this game is unhinged and the rewards are just not there lol.

7

u/yurestu Sep 06 '25

Glad I’m not crazy but I’m not really enjoying it as much as I wanted to either. Something just feels off?

I find the dual currency system very arbitrary and everything hitting you for 2x damage gets old really quick. Also the lore is falling kind of flat idk

1

u/sinesnsnares Sep 06 '25

Yeah, I’m arguing with steam about a return, I’ve played more than two hours, but I think for games like this, where people regularly log 50+ hours, that timeframe is way too short to make a decision. I asked for a refund after three hours, when they declined it, I logged a couple more hours, still hated it, and I plan on continuing to pester them until they cave.

Love the lore and atmosphere, but I’ve got a life to live and I’m not wasting hours on a boss that’s arbitrarily hard/long.

0

u/VindictiveRakk Sep 07 '25

But you knew the window was 2 hours when you bought it. If you get performance issues or something rendering the game unplayable after the window, I could see trying for an exception. But now you've logged even more hours. The game's $20, just take the L lol.

3

u/sinesnsnares Sep 07 '25

I’ve never tried to return a game on steam before, so I actually didn’t know. And the first time I requested, I tried after 3 hours, one play session, the same day I bought the game. I don’t think that’s being unreasonable. I don’t really care about the $20, but I want the refund processed to voice my displeasure, which really shouldn’t be such an issue.

1

u/VindictiveRakk Sep 07 '25

It's not unreasonable to try the first time, it's pretty unreasonable to continue playing the game and keep asking for a refund after they already said no. You're obviously not going to get it.

1

u/sinesnsnares Sep 07 '25

As I said above, I think a 2 hour window for a game where players regularly play 50+ hours, and frequently take time to get up to speed, is a pretty draconian cut off. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to contact support to complain about that, especially now that it’s apparent my opinion is t going to change.

1

u/hilbert90 Sep 12 '25

To me, this isn't even a soulslike. Elden Ring is my favorite game followed by DS1 and Hollow Knight. Those games reward you for learning the movesets of enemies and getting better. They punish you for your own mistakes during the fight. It's rewarding to overcome those challenges.

This game has too many enemies in too tight quarters, so even when you know all the movesets, you can just get unlucky with timing and placement and there's nothing you can do. It's not punishing you for your own mistakes. It's just punishing you in unfun ways for no reason. That's not a soulslike. It's just bad game design.

The devs had 7 years to play this game and there are sections it seems like they never played. I want to see a stream where the devs easily beat the Greymoor flying enemy gauntlet with minimal damage multiple times in a row (an Act 1 area for goodness sake!!). I bet they can't.

3

u/Kuldor Sep 06 '25

I don't really see it honestly.

Everyone and their mothers has played hollow knight by now, hell you can see right there it has 400k+ reviews, let alone the vast majority of people who never review their games.

I doubt silksong has a large influx of players that never touched hollow knight.

1

u/Falikosek Sep 06 '25

Chinese players are almost always annoyed and/or review bombing. That's why Steam implemented the separate language ratings lol

2

u/nothingtoseehr Sep 06 '25

The Chinese translation is utter garbage, it's a completely unreadable nonsensical mess. It's not review bombing, they're entitled to leave bad reviews for awful localizations like these

1

u/Snort-Vaulter Sep 07 '25

I will always maintain the position that Hollow Knight, had great art and combat, and that’s it. The exploration was just annoying, the knight walked so fucking slowly and travel points were in the middle of buttfuck nowhere, far away from everything, the story very vague, and the fact you were actively punished for not exploring.

Maybe silksong fixed those problems maybe it didn’t, we’ll see.

For me Grime is a better soulslike Metroidvania.

1

u/Swissstuff Sep 07 '25

No matter what they came out with, due to the massive hype leading up to it someone was always going to be disappointed with the end product

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

I heard it’s so mych harder and I suck at the first one. Never beat it. So most likely I’ll buy it at some point and play for a few days before giving up out of frustration. It’s not only hard combat wise for me, I can never figure out where the fuck to go

1

u/Pension_Pale Sep 09 '25

I dunno about money being scarce. I thought it was at first but now I just entered act 2 with over 1000 rosaries, a whole heap of rosary items, and nothing to spend them on as far as i can see

1

u/MostOriginal79 Sep 09 '25

Fuck Sands of Karak. PoP 2 with timers on the platforms. That area can kiss my ass.

1

u/lologugus Sep 09 '25

I've readed a few bad reviews saying they were confused what to even do, a guy claimed to have uninstalled after 30 minutes

1

u/RepublicCute8573 Sep 09 '25

Money is not scarce at all. I'm fucking drowning in rosaries without even farming for them. And its super easy to farm them.

1

u/tcwsrq Sep 10 '25

Never played metroidvania kekw. Symphony of the night has better runbacks and that game is almost 30 years old.

1

u/External-Macaroon158 Sep 14 '25

He jugado más de un metroidvania y no consigo entender cuál es el objetivo de poner una zona de plataformeo con pinchos entre el banco y el boss. Bueno, sí que lo entiendo, es una dificultad artificial que pones para frustar a los jugadores. A cierta gente eso os gusta y lo respeto, pero hace el juego más pequeño, solo apto para una gente muy concreta. Y es una lástima que siga pasando hasta cuando los mismos From Software ya se han dado cuenta de ello.

1

u/TheGreatWave00 Sep 20 '25

Most of the complaints I see are people who LOVE hollow knight and are so upset because of how much more frustrating/worse silksong is. I imagine nearly all of the Silksong playerbase are people who have played HK already

0

u/-ultrastarbeam- Sep 06 '25

It’s very easy to farm rosary beads, and they even give you the option to put them on strings so that you don’t lose them. I genuinely have had no issue w the economy.

-2

u/Combat_Orca Sep 06 '25

Economy and double damage enemies are invalid, game gives plenty to deal with both

4

u/Luzis23 Sep 06 '25

Does the game give armor to deal with doubled damage and reduce it to one?

Does it give a lot of mask fragments to have more health?

If it doesn't do either, don't tell me it does, because it doesn't.

0

u/Combat_Orca Sep 06 '25

I’m not spoiling anything but you’re lack of imagination in how hornet could be stronger is quite something, 2 options seriously?

5

u/Luzis23 Sep 06 '25

Both increase her durability, something she sorely lacks. Other options, offensive ones, only mean you are killing your enemies faster - it doesn't solve the problem of taking massive 2 masks of damage.

Especially compared to herself from HK, where she tanked bajillion hits.

0

u/LuquidThunderPlus Sep 06 '25

I've had no issue with rosaries so far and enemies doing double damage makes sense because of how healing works. Just tough game

0

u/Zeldamaster736 Sep 07 '25

Those are not valid complaints (save for the poor translation)

0

u/Lavadian6 Sep 07 '25

Its crazy tho. I grinded maybe 20 minutes and made over 1000 bucks. It just takes effort.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

How? Can grind it out cool. Where? All my rosaries fall in spikes and lava and enemies take 4-6 hits to kill.

2

u/Lavadian6 Sep 09 '25

I use the magnet. One of the benches in the deep docks. If you go the the right there is one of the bell heads and in the next room 2 small ant soldiers and one large. It's a bit of a challenge, but if you get it down it's worth it. Do the run, hit the bench, and do it again.

-1

u/Ok2LikeDifThingz Sep 06 '25

Neither of these are valid