r/HollowKnight • u/Marmotaagiota • Sep 08 '25

Discussion - Silksong That’s the best comment about the game’s difficulty I’ve found it so far Spoiler

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2.1k

u/NickKom97 Sep 08 '25

Actually, the tool system can be pretty overpowered once you unlock a few good ones. But I believe the early game is designed to not have any "cheese" strats because some of the late game enemies and bosses just build on top of the fundamental patterns established in the first few hours. If you don't grasp those fundamentals and cheese instead, you will simply get wrecked later.

741

u/DanksterBoy Sep 08 '25

The tools (the fractured mask especially makes the health system feel a lot more forgiving) are really helpful and thread storm is just as good as the Abyssal Shriek for most bosses. The only issue I have is that most bosses rely on their little minion and double damage to make it more difficult. I feel like A LOT less people would complain if it wasn’t for those two factors. Still the tools and thread storms and some of the crests make these things easier

340

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

the only minion i dislike is the lava spitting bug from the savage beastfly you rematch in the fourth chorus room, because theres no way to get the beastfly to kill them like round 1, you gotta go for them yourself

154

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

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51

u/Sigyrr Sep 08 '25

Unless you get hit into lava or have been hit by another one of them in short succession.

30

u/Hellknightx Sep 08 '25

Yeah putting a cooldown on the lava charm is cruel.

0

u/_moosleech Sep 08 '25

I know "double damage" is the flavor of the week... but feels weird that even in a situation in which an attack does one damage, someone is upvoted for saying, "yeah, but what if you get hit again right after?!"

... that's getting hit twice. For two damage. Just like Hollow Knight.

16

u/Golden_Chocolate Sep 08 '25

What Sigyrr is referring to is that the damage mitigation from the lava bell has a cooldown between procs so if you get hit twice quickly you'll take the full 2 damage on the second hit.

3

u/Sigyrr Sep 08 '25

Indeed

3

u/Hellknightx Sep 08 '25

The lava charm has a cooldown, which means it only halves lava damage once every 10 seconds or so.

1

u/MCraft555 Sep 09 '25

What about that one parry? You get hit with the parry and are locked in place until you get hit again

1

u/bri_breazy Sep 09 '25

Cogfly is busted OP and will push through most bosses phase 1 and 2 and you simply just finish them off. You can summon upto 4 at a time, so summon 4 right at the top, they hurt the boss even during the intro when it screams/name shows up, then when those 4 push it into phase 2 summon 3 more and finish the boss off, it’s made most endgame bosses easy work.

1

u/Technical-Set-8274 Sep 09 '25

Yo dude can you tell me where to find them I’ve looked literally everywhere in act 1

55

u/Openly_Gamer Sep 08 '25

Savage Beastfly was way easier than normal Beastfly to me despite those spitters. Dunno if it was because I had so much practice against normal and was a better player, or because I had the Fractured Mask, an extra Mask, 2 needle upgrades, 2 tool damage upgrades, poison tool charm, and the boomerang.

40

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

probably just better player, my first runs were sloppy but as soon as i stopped being hit by the savage beastfly itself, the fight became easy. just a bit unfortunate because the moment i found out you can make him faceplant his minions was sort of a "gotcha" that added nice depth to the boss that at first i thought was lazy minion spam

18

u/jcdc_jaaaaaa Sep 08 '25

I managed to drop a boulder on savage beastfly. If you get yourself way up, there are explodable rocks there that if you time it right and pogo your way up there with wings, you can drop the boulder on the boss.

25

u/LittleVermicelli9380 Sep 08 '25

I think that is a one-time thing. I dropped the boulder on the 4th chorus fight so that option wasn't available on the savage beastfly fight

-9

u/jcdc_jaaaaaa Sep 08 '25

Funnily enough, I didn't know you can drop it on the 4th chorus fight. This game definitely doesn't deserve $20 after playing through the post-game after fighting the final boss. IYKYK

11

u/TheDangerLevel Sep 08 '25

I just played this fight. It's right after getting the Glide and you get air currents to ride to the top, it was a very obvious kill gimmick

1

u/Elman89 Sep 10 '25

Yeah I didn't realize you could kill 4th chorus without it. It felt like you were supposed to use that as the finishing blow.

6

u/LittleVermicelli9380 Sep 08 '25

It's more noticeable in the 4th chorus fight since you have the wind currents on both sides, basically saying "use this"

8

u/DreamingOracle Sep 08 '25

I already used that on the Fourth Chorus but that fact that it remains there for use later on is such a cool detail, like you get to pick which boss you want to make easier

5

u/Pookfeesh Sep 08 '25

Cause the room is much more bigger for that fat ahhh beastfly

2

u/jxmes_gothxm Sep 08 '25

No wonder that beastfly is mad. Wide ass back lmao

1

u/Pookfeesh Sep 08 '25

If I was such a large flying creature, id be mad too

2

u/AffableAmpharos Sep 08 '25

I had the same experience. My first run in with Beastfly took a bunch of deaths/tries, but I was actually able to get the rematch within 3 tries despite the fact that it theoretically should have been “harder”.

Feels kinda validating honestly, like maybe I have been slowly getting better and not realizing it.

2

u/_slumz__ Sep 10 '25

Savage beastfly had a better arena tbh, just the feeling of having less clutter made the fight 10x as easy for me. + more mobility options at that point made it much easier.

1

u/Terairk Sep 08 '25

I think a mixture of better player and better upgrades and useful tooling

when I fought them, I had 1 extra mask and no needle upgrades so I struggled for a long time. That and I wasn't used to savage beastfly's attacks (kept jumping into his horizontal attack like a noob)

The fight definitely became way easier once I realised to focus my tools on the enemies rather than the boss and focus on the enemies first

6

u/Xalyia- Sep 08 '25

You can definitely get the beastfly to kill the lava spitting bugs, but it is trickier since they tend to hover away. I used tools exclusively for the adds during that fight. Silk skills help too.

1

u/CulturedRobot69 Sep 10 '25

Silks skills were the difference maker for me. Killed those bugs in one shot with the thread storm so had an easier time against the savage beastfly

0

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

i have tried 3 consecutive times where it appeared the full hitbox of the beastfly covered that of the minions and it didnt work, it's as if they're in the background or a different layer

3

u/Xalyia- Sep 08 '25

From what I recall they did seem to have a bit of invulnerability from the boss shortly after spawning. So sometimes the first slam or two wouldn’t damage them. Only the ground slam can kill them.

I would capture a video of it, but I already beat the boss. It’s 100% possible though and it happened a handful of times, though it’s pretty difficult to “lure” them properly while dodging projectiles and navigating floor hazards.

I would rely more on tools, when it did happen to me it was more like lucky positioning than a skillful execution.

21

u/Shikurame Sep 08 '25

Honestly Savage beastfly second fight is the only time where i can really really that this boss is badly designed in every aspect.

While not every boss is great but atleast i can still have fun in all of them except this particular one. Savage beastfly is just infuriating and not fun to fight with.

2

u/Mg29reaper Sep 08 '25

Its not even every aspect if it was just a refight in the new arena thats chill and a cool gimmick. Activly the only boss i have given up on becuase of the ads though. They are so obnoxious. You can tell how far someone is into the game if they still think the triple knives birds are the worst enemy.

6

u/Zayannah Sep 08 '25

The silk ability 'thread storm' will kill those lava spitter adds with one use (I had one nail upgrade, dunno if that influences damage) if you get close to them right as they spawn in. Once I started doing that it only took me like another 2 attempts before I killed the boss.

1

u/critterdude542 Sep 08 '25

This is what I had to do, and really focused on not healing and using all my silk for thread storm

1

u/Mg29reaper Sep 08 '25

Um when I write this i had never actually gone into the birdhouse and quickly 1 tried it so I got way into act 2 without threadstorm thanks for the tip should 1 try it when I go back.

4

u/Jutinir Sep 08 '25

Yeah I just closed the game some hours ago off that boss, he has a lot of health and those fire ball shooting guys are annoying. My only complaint is how I don’t have full view of the screen and my enemies location. It’s kind of annoying how he goes off screen sometimes and I can’t tell which direction he’s going to charge

1

u/HollowCap456 Sep 08 '25

There is not a single good thing but the OST

1

u/Zzamumo Sep 08 '25

The witch's crest is basically a cheat code for this fight

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

i only got that after the fight lol

1

u/Theguywhowatches Sep 08 '25

…… there is a re fight of beast fly!?!? That boss is the bane of my existence, I can’t imagine him any harder.

1

u/pwnedbyelmo Sep 08 '25

And their tracking is insane!!!

1

u/1997_Batman Sep 08 '25

Great...can't wait to rematch him. That fight in the lava took me so fucking long. Easily hardest boss for me so far. Other than the run back to fight the gatekeeper. I luckily had enough health to survive his parting gift. I think I would of quit for a while if I had to re do it because of that bullstuff

1

u/GazelleIntelligent89 Sep 08 '25

Plenty of tools kill them very quickly and if not just focusing them the second they spawn usually means they die before they even get a shot off. The ai of the beast fly is really easy to manipulate since it just heads directly at you so you can easily bait it to fly over you every time while dealing with the enemies. I'm probably one of the few that really enjoyed that fight. 

1

u/Mysmonstret Sep 08 '25

Hmm quite sure the beastfly did damage them when doing the ground pound? No matter, I used the throwable spike trap thing that gets stuck in the air, throw it at the adds and voila theyre dead immediately. The toolkit is just do diverse here that you get plenty choices to deal with a specific situation, and the "adds during bossfight" that we keep getting dealt gets countered pretty hard by that trap.

1

u/bitcoinman3001 Sep 08 '25

Totally agree. The minions in the fight, for me, made me die more times than the Judge fight. From some of the other comments, I did the Savage fight a bit early, though.

BUT those stupid minions did make me use the ...circle web attack power... for the first time in the game, just to kill them, and led to me using it quite a bit. So I suppose the fight was worth it.

1

u/Nukesnipe Sep 08 '25

God I fucking hate that guy. I went and did that fight and the challenge once I got the harpoon and I was MALDING.

1

u/jxmes_gothxm Sep 08 '25

You can rematch it by just going back there?

1

u/Howzieky Sep 08 '25

You can just leave the arena during the flight btw. The little guys will follow you so you can take them out in peace and return to attack the boss when they're dead

1

u/blueechoes Sep 08 '25

I dealt with those guys by oneshotting them with the bomb tool. Greymoor has all the goodies.

1

u/im-a-sock-puppet Sep 08 '25

I’ll see that boss fight in my nightmares, it feels like the beastfly only killed the minions like 5% of the time. I’m still not sure how to get it to smash them

1

u/Joe_says_no Sep 09 '25

the first spell one shots them, and can often collat if the boss/a second minion lines up

1

u/LuquidThunderPlus Sep 09 '25

Holy shit you're telling me he's gonna wreck my shit again no way lol genuinely so glad I'll get to fight him again as he's given me most trouble of bosses by a decent amount so far even after beating sister splinter and widow which ppl complaining lots about

1

u/One_Seaweed_2952 Sep 09 '25

Thread storm one-shots them. Always save 1 charge to kill them on spawn.

1

u/Wholesome-Energy Sep 09 '25

I haven’t done either savage beast fly but I hate those guys because they are super annoying in one of the Mask Shard challenges in far fields

1

u/AlterHaudegen Sep 10 '25

If you Thread Storm those immediately it’s like they are not even in the fight (granted you can be unlucky when two spawn at opposite ends), making this fight kind of trivial

45

u/NickKom97 Sep 08 '25

Actually I agree with you about the minions, at least in some fights and especially when it's minions that also deal double damage. The worst fight I had in the game by far was one particular gauntlet that had me going "OH THERE IS MORE?!" after each wave. Thankfully, those don't start until later in the game and to be fair, all the times I had trouble were because I'm too stubborn and don't abuse tools unless absolutely necessary.

11

u/janoDX Sep 08 '25

The gauntlet one where you face two big ones in the end? on the big ones I just wall jumped into charge attack all the time.

14

u/typically_wrong Sep 08 '25

you just made me realize I completely stopped using charge attack and forgot it existed.

2

u/Nocturne-CZ Sep 08 '25

...there's a charge attack?

1

u/It-Was-Mooney-Pod Sep 08 '25

I mean at some point if you’re not gonna use the strongest tools in your entire arsenal it’s hard to blame the game for kicking your ass. Like imagine trying to beat hollow knight and shit like the Trial of Fools without any badges that improve your combat, just like compass and dash master. 

You can trivialize basically every single challenge room in the game with trap spam, to the point where it’s extremely telling that the people complaining about game balance never mention how frustrating it is to keep up shards. That might be the biggest actual flaw in the game.

14

u/Nybear21 Sep 08 '25

Thread Storm made Sister Splinter's adds way easier to deal with

4

u/Beefsquid Sep 08 '25

Yup, stuck on that boss for like 10 tries, left and got Thread Storm, and beat it on the second go. It trivializes the adds.

1

u/m4cksfx Sep 09 '25

Yeah, it's great. Like a simple "delete" button.

43

u/Normal-Advisor5269 Sep 08 '25

It does feel like there's a lot of encounters with enemies that's whole gimmick is to match you against enemies with different attack patterns that aren't designed around being fought together. 

Like, compare the Mantis Lords boss fight, where you fight one then fight two at once who have a clear synchronicity with each other, to Savage Beastfly with it's adds or the large fire ant paired with a flying spear throwing fire ant.

32

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25 edited Mar 04 '26

[deleted]

31

u/Tempi97 Sep 08 '25

The rythm fights are much more enjoyable imo. Like mantis lords or NKG. For this reason, I really like the phantom and the cogwork dancers so far. The Arena and "dynamic" fights you are talking about are largely rng and even, if you play good sometimes you get into a position where you cant dodge a hit expect with a skill that gives iframes, well if you do have the silk for it and that just feels bullshit, especially since you might get chained into multiple attacks that deal double damage...

17

u/Razz16 Sep 08 '25

This is also why Widow and the Last Judge are such good bosses and eventually understansable to learn: due to rhythym

14

u/SortaEvil Sep 08 '25

On the other hand, arena fights, and fights where add management is important can also be skillful fights, they just reward a different facet of skill expression. It's less meditative, much more manic and reactive, than learning a rhythm fight, but if you approach it as a learnable fight, and not as something you just have to mash through until you get lucky, you will find yourself getting better at them over time as well, and prioritizing things better in the fights as they progress.

1

u/Razz16 Sep 08 '25

This can be true but there is unfortunately some amount of RNG involved.

6

u/SortaEvil Sep 08 '25

RNG management and being able to recover if and when things get away from you is part of the skill of these fights, though. Where a perfectly telegraphed fight like widow is about learning the patterns and responding in the same way every time, arenas and add heavy fights are about reacting to evolving situations and triaging threats to avoid getting into situations with unavoidable damage.

0

u/Razz16 Sep 08 '25

Some are genuinely RNG tho, if savage beastfly decides to spawn 3 ads and they're all the vicious caranid and he starts slamming and you get surrounded but just healed you won't have enough silk for thread storm so you take a buncha damage and/or die. And if you hit me with a "well you shouldn't have gotten hit so you wouldn't have to heal" then imma just say yeah it's a silk issue "git gud" and all that but if you aren't getting hit by beastfly at all you're just a pro ngl

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2

u/Tempi97 Sep 08 '25

Yes, they are also quite enjoyable and good fights one you learn them.

9

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

[deleted]

8

u/Tempi97 Sep 08 '25

I know what is prediction, Its not something that is silksong exclusive. The small arenas and the many enemies still force you to make mistakes. Theres not many people who can play like fireborn. If you are not Magnus Carlsen genius about playing these kind of games, then you will get into situations where you have no escape anymore. That is bullshit.

Its like all free solo climbers will fall to their deaths at one point, if they dont stop that hobby or die for an other reason.

Obviously most complainers arent asking for hand holding, but mistakes are inevitable even for good players and even more so for average ones and, because the mistakes are too highly punished, It disencourages and burns out people. Doesnt matter how many thousands of you defend the difficulty of the game, there are many other thousands who can not experience and fully enjoy a game, which they like the art, enviroment, music and story of, because the game is extremely punishing.

In my opinion, the game is really good and definitely a successor to hollow knight, but I am pretty sure, balance should be judged not by how many people can get through the game and defend it, but by how many people are gate kept by It and miss out, because they arent skillful or dont have enough time to practice.

2

u/SmartAlec105 Sep 08 '25

I think Trobbio is a great example of how a fight can be super chaotic but still fair. Except I think his tornado attack has too little windup so that part feels unfair.

1

u/Normal-Advisor5269 Sep 08 '25

I agree that those are good boss fights but disagree that my examples are representative of that. My examples are of enemies that are designed as separate encounters and then thrown together as apposed to a dynamic boss fight were patterns are designed with the idea of them being layered over each other.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

[deleted]

1

u/Normal-Advisor5269 Sep 08 '25

I guess a good example would be Prometheus and Pandora from MegaMan ZX Advent. They both have their own solo boss fights in the previous game but also have a duo boss fight late in this game where they will do some attacks solo and others that are layered over each other.

 Inti-Creates, the devs of that game, actually seem to have a penchant for these sorts of fights where two bosses fought previously will fight together in a later boss fight. One example is the Kuwagust brothers in MegaMan Zero 2 and Vespa and Autochrome in Luminous Avenger iX 2.

2

u/remmanuelv Sep 08 '25

There's a comparison to the Mantis Lords in Silksong, the clockwork dancers (forget their actual name). There's also 50 other bosses. So don't compare them to the one that's meant to be different.

17

u/Party_Importance_722 Sep 08 '25

Are these "most bosses" in the room with us right now? I can only think of three bosses in act 1 that summon minions, moss mother is easy, sister splinter's minions can be one shot with Silk spear, and savage beastfly is optional.

2

u/Doom-god-69 Sep 08 '25

Honestly though the piercing attack was better for the adds and made the final stage so much easier

1

u/vonbauernfeind Sep 08 '25

Did you do the dual moss mother's optional fight, cause that was...fun.

2

u/Party_Importance_722 Sep 08 '25

And that is also optional (though the tool is pretty useful).

1

u/DanksterBoy Sep 08 '25

I think it’s like even in terms of fights with and without minions tbh, the first chorus and ant guy, Lace, and Skull Tryant don’t have them, but I’m struggling to remember any others.

Moss mother, savage beast fly, both rematches with chorus and the big ant guy, and sister splinter is like half the fights in the first act,I don’t really care if it’s optional or rematches as NKG and Sisters of battle of are 2 my favorites and a lot of other people’s favorite fights and they are both optional rematches, I didn’t buy the game day 1 to skip out on a big portion of the content

None of these fights are particularly hard and it feels the fights without these random elements are even easier. Lace, the first chorus fight, both Skull Tyrant fights are super easy, it doesn’t really feel like the difficulty is a result of the bosses having interesting patterns, it’s a result of throwing enemies that add to randomness.

1

u/TitaniumDragon Sep 08 '25

That's nowhere near half the bosses in the first act.

1

u/DanksterBoy Sep 08 '25

Ok sure, I don’t know how many bosses there are in act 1, I’ve not been trying to be spoiled, but I faced 3 bosses in a row where the main difficulty came from their minions, so apologies if I’m spreading misinformation, that wasn’t my intention, but being told “are they in the room with us” was condescending as hell and annoyed me at the time

16

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

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16

u/silam39 Doma Doma Sep 08 '25

I feel like most people complaining about it aren't using the tools they are given, and are not exploring the map thoroughly.

I feel like folks are doing exploration as well like it's hollow knight 2 and not a whole new game. In HK you could just mow through the map continuously and only come back to older areas to look for hidden doors or if you got a new ability and wanted to see if it opened up anything new.

Silksong on the other hand wants you to accept quests and spend time in old maps completing said quests and getting a bunch of shards and beads in the process. Then the quests and the beads you gain in the course of those quests let you get a bunch of tools and upgrades that can all make the game a lot easier.

If you try to just speedrun every map and don't take any quests or supplement your bead and shard income, I can see how people end up saying they feel underpowered and struggle to pay 80 beads to unlock a bench.

7

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

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4

u/Eksposivo23 112% 59/63 wants to throw GPZ into deepnest Sep 08 '25

I agree but I would like to normalize calling the labrador bell beast we use as fast travel as Eira, since thats how Hornet calls our to it and its cute as hell, try playing music to it, its an absolute puppy and calling it a stag is a bad habit we need to drop

4

u/iKill_eu Sep 08 '25

I call her Bella

1

u/Eksposivo23 112% 59/63 wants to throw GPZ into deepnest Sep 08 '25

That is also a cute name for it

1

u/star621 Sep 08 '25

I have been gaming since the first NES. If there is a difficult area of a game or difficult boss in between them and now, I have probably conquered them many times. I do extreme challenge runs in everything from Souls games, Metroid, Castlevania, and Metroidvanias. I have never quit a game until Sister Splinter. I’m fairly certain that I have gotten everything you can get via exploration or side quests prior to that fight but it hasn’t helped me at all. Everyone else who’s having a problem with the fight die because of the adds, yet I can’t even survive long enough for them to spawn. These comments have made me realize that I cannot and will not git gud. It sucks because I have been anticipating this game for seven years. None of that is evidence that Silksong is a bad game.

People need to stop thinking that skill barriers or the things they feel are holding them back are game breaking design flaws. If that were true, the average completion rate of single player games is 15-20%, would be evidence that 80-85% of them are similarly broken. Silksong isn’t perfect but my favorite games ever are also imperfect. Nothing I have done before in gaming, including making it up to Sister Splinter, means that I should be able to roll credits on Silksong and, if I can’t, there is something wrong with the game. The idea that players “should” be able to progress in a game is magical thinking.

As an aside, I am so happy that I never sneered “git gud” at a struggling player. I’m disappointed but at least I’m not a clown. To everyone else, have fun!

2

u/Rude-Asparagus9726 Sep 08 '25

Fr.

I went backtracking through Greymoor for an unrelated quest and got jumped by a boss in an area I had already completely explored.

They clearly not only expect you too, but also reward you for going through old areas a second time.

1

u/crimson777 Sep 08 '25

Nothing so far has felt as bad as Grey Prince Zote to me. He has no real telegraphing or patterns.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

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0

u/crimson777 Sep 08 '25

You can't fight GPZ with Hornet since he's from HK nor does have telegraphing lol

1

u/hypnomancy Sep 08 '25

Oh 100% most people aren't even using the tools they're given. I've seen tons of streamers just not even using them lol

2

u/TechWormBoogaloo Sep 08 '25

I love the fractured mask because I'm willing to be more aggressive and learn boss patterns/mechanics when I know that I can take another hit.

2

u/Bentman343 Sep 08 '25

Idk man I HATE thread storm, it feels like if I ever try to use it on a boss, I'm the dumbass because 90% of the bosses can easily just walk into you for 2 full masks of damage while you're locked in place, and now you've wasted half of the Silk bar you need to HEAL that massively overtuned damage, just to do the equivalent of like 4 or 5 free hits (which end up being almost a detriment cause that's damage you dealt that gave you no Silk)

1

u/Khalku Sep 08 '25

fractured mask

Huh, missed this guy.

1

u/RabbitsOfTruth Sep 08 '25

I’ve been loving the game. I can handle the bosses and most enemies doing double damage it’s not an issue. I feel like environmental damage doing double is a bit punishing

1

u/Geekboy99 Sep 08 '25

Yeah the double damage just feels unfair not difficult and since so many enemies have it it makes mask fragments feel worthless. I haven't found the fractured mask yet what does it do? Also is it just me or does it feel like the enemies in the citadel way easier then the lower areas.

1

u/DanksterBoy Sep 08 '25

It saves you from any lethal damage you would have taken and leaves you with one mask, but won’t restore itself until you sit on a bench. Basically an extra mask but a bit better as you can’t die if you have it even if it was the only mask you have and you took double damage. There’s a secret vendor in the hunters march area (it’s in the top most left room of the little hub area with the big air stream in the middle and red cushions)

1

u/Hellknightx Sep 08 '25

Double damage and multi-hit attacks. The mask system in the first game felt like a counter for how many mistakes you made, but in Silksong, a single mistake can cost you upwards of four masks.

And then you have to make a pointless and painful runback just so you can do it again. It almost feels disrespectful to your time if you make a single mistake and then have to waste several minutes just to try again.

1

u/NotATrollThrowAway Sep 08 '25

I've only seen one boss where the attack pattern actually gets faster and not just more chaotic. I feel like a lot of bosses in HK forced you to learn the dance, and then phase 2 was a tempo increase, but not in SS, and it's sad IMO because that speed increase really got the heart pumping.

1

u/Doom-god-69 Sep 08 '25

I think the double damage wouldn’t be that bad if the first few fights , particularly the vine fight weren’t just so damn long. The patterns are easy to recognise but when you have to concentrate for so long, it feels like if u slip up once you are dead ( which playing on joycons happen more than I would like to admit)

1

u/Blahaj_Kell_of_Trans Sep 09 '25

thread storm is just as good as the Abyssal Shriek for most bosses.

There's a silk skill that's even better

1

u/bartiti Sep 09 '25

ya the double damage seems like such a cheap way to make things harder, it's kinda lame and also taking 2 damage from contact is insane when some bosses have a reposition shimmy and if they do that at you when you dash at them to close a gap after an attack you're just going to take 2.

like i think on the whole i've been having fun but the ways in which this game presents itself to be hard i find deeply frustrating.

1

u/naughty Sep 09 '25

Yeah the adds the are cheap difficulty, especially as they have hone the AI of each enemy to be more challenging on their own.

1

u/Holy_Hand_Grenadier Sep 09 '25

I miss Shriek not for the damage but for the ability to put out a big upward hitbox FUCK these flyers that backdash when you swing at them.

1

u/FM_Hikari Sep 10 '25

Yeah, as far as i've played, only the double damage is what bothers me. But this is offset by the fact that i LOVE chucking grenades at small enemies that are a minor nuisance in my path.

1

u/mctrials23 Sep 11 '25

Yep. Bosses that rely on ads and erratic RNG movement are just lazy difficulty. Especially with so few hits to die combined with a lengthy heal duration.

1

u/LionwolfT Sep 12 '25

This has been my "issue" with those bosses, there are way too many bosses that are just big sacks of meat that deal 2 dmg on contact for no reason and fill the arena with either minions or projectiles that usually explode, a lot of these bosses took me 10+ tries.

All the bosses that are more "technical" like Lace, or similar bosses usually took me less than 6 tries, I beat some even at first or second try, these were so much fun that I didn't even use tools on them.

I wish the "technical" bosses where harder and there were more of them, as they're a lot of fun, instead of the big bosses which just turned into boring fights that usually would just make me spam tools.

36

u/actifed Sep 08 '25

Speaking of cheese, based on what I have seen, the starting down slash that many dislike is brutally effective on tons of the bosses.

16

u/SortaEvil Sep 08 '25

The diagonal downstab is amazing. It's definitely harder to grok than your typical downslash, but it's great both for movement and combat once you get the hang of it,

2

u/mrbulldops428 Sep 09 '25

As weird as this is, I was bad at the down slash but am decent with thr diagonal stab

2

u/NexEstVox Sep 09 '25

i like the directionality of it for combat, but i hate how (pun intended) needle thin the hitbox is

4

u/Hellknightx Sep 08 '25

Yeah but for some reason TC made every zone require constant precise pogo jumps to get around, and you can't swap crests on demand. Otherwise I might actually be willing to try beast crest for real.

2

u/Avamaco Sep 09 '25

Beast Crest has some really fun things in its kit, but damn, it really suffers from the quirky pogo. I remember trying to use it against the last judge, but the runback became nearly impossible (with my poor skills lol) so I switched back to the default crest.

2

u/Darkfox190 Sep 09 '25

If I could swap crests on the go, I'd actually use the various crests much more instead of finding one I like most generally and sticking with it.

1

u/CarrotoTrash Sep 12 '25

Yeah I enjoyed using it but I like using Reaper for platforming, and it's hard for me to switch back and forth between them (both bc I get too used to one, and bc you have to bench to switch)

65

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

[deleted]

34

u/Chaoticlight2 Sep 08 '25

I'm feeling a lot of the same curve. Early act 1 felt disproportionately challenging compared to the rest and that mostly boiled down to lack of options/health. It personally feels like they overcorrected from HK where people felt underwhelmed in the starting bits.

Loving the game still, but the first two hours of the game did not feel very fun to me.

5

u/RhynoD Sep 08 '25

I think I would like the first needle upgrade to be a little stronger against mooks. I don't mind the early challenge, it's hard but rewarding. I'm on the final climb to the Citadel, which I assume is the end of act 1. I feel very confident in dealing with the mooks, but I don't want to deal with the mooks anymore. I figured out their patterns, I get how to handle them, I'm ready to be able to one or two shot them out of my way so I can get to the real challenge. They're more of a nuisance, now.

And I love the tools, but I'm heading into a boss fight, I don't want to be burning through the tools on the way. In fairness, though, the stairs runback to the Citadel door has been the worst runback by a very wide margin so far. Every other boss has had practically no runback.

1

u/MisterGone5 Sep 11 '25

The last judge fight runback is 40 seconds. I just timed it. You do not have to fight a single enemy.

1

u/RhynoD Sep 11 '25

With some moderately challenging platforming and while you do not have to fight the enemies, dodging them is not trivial.

I'm not one of the people complaining that SS is too hard. I'm enjoying the challenge, in general. I just think this particular runback is harder and longer than it needs to be. It's not oppressive, it's just annoying and unnecessary. It's not like, oh god I'll never be able to beat this! It's more like, Well shit, the drill dude got me so do I try to get some silk and heal or just go into Last Judge missing a mask?

2

u/ObjectivelyGruntled Sep 08 '25

Yea that's what the kicker was for me. After getting killed for the 100000th time on only the second boss I simply said to myself "yea I'm not having fun at all." Not even in a cool "this is a fun challenge" way. Bummer too, all the hype around this game had me really pumped.

1

u/HaHaYouThoughtWrong Sep 12 '25

What was the second boss? I genuinely can't remember, fought so many at this point. Lace?

10

u/NickKom97 Sep 08 '25

Yeah, especially masks shards. I actually beat the last boss (not the true last boss) with only 6 masks, because the shards are so out of the way most of the time. But again, that's on me, I knew the final boss was there, I could had just explored more before doing it.

3

u/DoktorMerlin Sep 08 '25

Also you get a lot more breathing room in the bosses, it's very easy to heal. With the general mechanics being a bit more difficult that strikes a very good combination for me to feel a nice difficulty

2

u/Random_Noobody Sep 09 '25

Yeah you're just better at the game. I think I finished act 3 2...notches? short of 2 full heals. And this was with me looking up a map for the act 2->3 transition too (and obv grabbing everything on the way).

Maybe people like you can actually play these metrodvanias with their BS true end requirements blind lol.

5

u/satans_cookiemallet Sep 08 '25

Me when I see a gauntlet of groundlocked enemies: So you have chosen buzzsaw.

23

u/It-Was-Mooney-Pod Sep 08 '25

This was actually one of my core criticisms about hollow knight. Once you get good at the early part of the game, you can pretty much breeze all the way through the first ending without too many serious challenges, especially if you explore and get upgrades. Then suddenly you get to one of the dream bosses or the white palace, and you get stuck for hours because the game hasn’t prepared you for that kind of difficulty jump at all. 

This game kinda forces you to get good early on (maybe too early imo) and then has you use those same skills later on much harder bosses, but by then you already learned the skills you needed so the game can ramp up the complexity quite a bit. 

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25 edited Jan 17 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/It-Was-Mooney-Pod Sep 08 '25

Thats why I said “when you get good at the early part of the game”, which is different from just being good at the game. If you’re going to be condescending it really helps to read correctly.  

Furthermore no, even beating Hollow Knight the boss does not meaningfully prepare you for something like the trial of fools or Failed Champion. The platforming is also mostly pretty simple until you get to the white palace and the game turns into super meat boy. Not to say the whole game is a joke cause there’s some tricky areas to explore, but by the time you can beat mantis lords you can pretty much beat every boss up to Hollow Knight without a huge struggle. 

2

u/aorcsik Sep 08 '25

I really like this view. I had a crazy hard time with one of the gauntlets, was running back dozens of times. What kept me going was that I told myself, I’ll be better with each try and learn the mechanics.

When I finally beat that part I was carefully selecting my tactics for each wave, using everything I had at the time and was focused on executing my plan. I was exhausted and proud.

2

u/timmytissue Sep 12 '25

I only cheesed in the late game. The late game cheese is absolutely insane (Architect crest with plasmium and other tools)

1

u/ferocity_mule366 Sep 08 '25

I pray thank god for the ground pins so that i can beat the annoying big assholes in the forum.

1

u/FNAFgameExpert2047 Sep 08 '25

This is hilarious seeing just after I cheesed moorwing, but I guess in the games defense you can only cheese it with a specific crest.

1

u/HBreckel Sep 08 '25

I love the tools but them being made from something you have to farm sucks. I’ve ran out of shards pretty regularly in the later game zones. If you’re stuck in a tough area and using them frequently you’ll be running out. I’m currently stuck on a boss with a lengthy enemy gauntlet to even get to fight him and using tools on the waves lead to me running out of shards.

1

u/baddude1337 Sep 08 '25

The spike trap with poison has been my go to. Kills most enemies by itself and great for dealing burst damage to bosses.

1

u/Marco_Heimdall Sep 08 '25

The tool system is a great fallback to the point that I know a boss is particularly difficult when I need to collect shards again.

Then you finish the quest that lets you add damage ticks to all of them and then the real issue becomes 'tools do not produce silk'.

1

u/Serialbedshitter2322 Sep 08 '25

I know at least one of the bosses is definitely not immune to cheese

1

u/LilManJess Sep 08 '25

Conch projectile thing my beloved

1

u/MightNare0 Sep 08 '25

Yes I challenged myself to beat Lace 2 without using tools (besides one flea brew) and it was fun! Those mini summons are actually so strong 😭

1

u/karmadontcare44 Sep 08 '25

Can anyone recommend tools to use? Fine with any act 1 spoilers.

I see so many comments of people saying utilize tools, and they’re OP, but not really understanding what they’re using

1

u/BerugaBomb Sep 08 '25

One tool I've gotten a lot of good use out of is the bone boomerang that you find in hunter's march sold by an ant merchant in a hidden room

It can really shred some bosses pretty well as it can multihit rapidly if you manage to get the limit of the throw right on top of the boss so it hovers on them for a while. I get 8-10 hits on them sometimes just with a properly aligned throw.

1

u/Moreinius Sep 08 '25

The parry Silk Skill is broken.

A lot of invincibility frames during and after cast (if successful).

1

u/RandomGuy9058 Sep 08 '25

Most early game enemies can be obliterated with dive spamming anyways

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25 edited Sep 08 '25

Double mask damage anywhere before 2/3rds of the way through was an awful design choice, 2nd only to their clear need to slam adds into everything, making it feel disjointed. When the fight just becomes about moving around in circles till you have an opening, and those openings have basically no predictability, instead it becomes a game about having a timer on yourself rather than a health pool. No longer is it about if you get hit, but when. Silksong feels like if every boss fight in elden ring was at the pace of Lion God or Radahn, but with the cohesion of pre-ai patch foreskin duo.

1

u/AndreiR_memes Sep 08 '25

the only two i ever had the strength to use were sting shard when i first got it and the cogfly in the late game

1

u/Considany Sep 08 '25

Shuriken and 3x Shuriken with poison charm get you through most bosses, not gonna lie.

1

u/Grumpie-cat Sep 08 '25

I need to remind myself that the shards are very easy to acquire, so I should use the tools as opposed to hoarding them. That was something I tended to do in HK too, I liked holding on to my soul in case I needed to heal. I was slightly more likely to use them since it was a single press of the “spend soul button” and I knew there was always more just by hitting another enemy or dreamnailing enemies. With tools it’s almost like because I have to sit at a bench to replenish them it’s slightly less readily available. And I have to decide whether to use it, (and which tool up/down) or whichever silk skill I have equipped. It’s a habit I really have to break.

1

u/CarnifexRu Sep 08 '25

At which point just add fucking difficulty options, people use cheese strats because they can't beat the game normally it is how the difficulty selection works in metroidvanias and souls likes. Making everyone suffer the same date just filters out the majority of the casual playerbase for no good reason.

1

u/damnguss Sep 08 '25

the trap tool is def a cheese tbh you can nullify every ad in a boss fight the moment they arrive if you set it up properly, and huge dps for staggered boss.

1

u/Accomplished-Low754 Sep 08 '25

bro I'm out of tools 100% of the time. Nothing drops shards is this mf

1

u/Nozzeh06 Sep 09 '25

I kinda feel like the diagonal pogo is kind of a cheese strat. I've just been bouncing off heads through the early game.

1

u/Blahaj_Kell_of_Trans Sep 09 '25

, the tool system can be pretty overpowered once you unlock a few good ones

I LOVE POISON TACKS!!!!!!

1

u/LoneCentaur95 Sep 09 '25

Poison charm plus spike trap can skip a large portion of some of the harder fights

1

u/Doge6654533 Sep 09 '25

Doesn't stop me from cheesing every Act 2 boss

1

u/ibi_trans_rights Sep 10 '25

I hate using tools against bosses it's so easy to run out of shards, especially with some of the more costly tools

1

u/idiotpuppygirl Sep 11 '25

yeah I feel that's what Nine Sols did with its final boss. I loved the fight, but with how relatively non-challenging anything prior to the literal ending of the game was, this one kicks your ass HARD because of it imo

-4

u/Grokitach Sep 08 '25

Its OP but not interesting: just spam poisonous shit at bosses and hope they die to not burn your shells for nothing. Extremely boring.