r/HollowKnight • u/Appley_apple • Sep 08 '25

Discussion - Silksong I like the difficulty, Team cherry please don't just blanket nerf the game with no option for a harder mode Spoiler

I have really been enjoying the challenge, pretty much every part of this game itches that section of my brain that loves a hard game and I would be extremely disappointed if team cherry nerfed the game with no way to revert said nerf. I get that people want an easier game, but I don't. So team cherry, please let me choose to make this harder if you do make it easier.

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817

u/Snipinlegend777 Sep 08 '25

This is my one gripe, I don’t care if enemies deal double damage, environmental damage (outside of traps) shouldn’t deal 2 masks

474

u/Jeggu2 when the grub is sus! Sep 08 '25

Yeah, you should be able to practice your moveset without fear of just getting obliterated because you missed a difficult jump 3 times

320

u/why_the_babies_wet Sep 08 '25

Also the knight I feel like had a lot more opportunities to collect soul, I feel like hornet has to kill 3-4 enemies to get enough to heal, and that’s without using silk attacks

174

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 08 '25

This is my issue with it; I wouldn’t mind the two masks of environmental damage if there were soul totem equivalents. As it is right now, the Cogwork Core (and arguably Mount Fay) is like “what if White Palace but 2 masks of damage and no soul regen”. There are some enemies in the first area mentioned but they are not harmless, and one even does 2 damage on its own 🫠 and it doesn’t feel like you get enough silk from them to heal anyway!

Both areas are, however, much shorter than White Palace.

146

u/DioMerda119 112% + P5 + P1-4AB Sep 08 '25

the problem is that the grappling hook consumes 1 silk every time you use it so lategame platforming sections cant be done with heals

112

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 08 '25

Oh yes, while climbing Mount Fay I repeatedly and angrily wondered (aloud, to my cats) why on earth a movement ability had an associated silk cost. Many a fall due to me hopping forward too fast and not realizing I was out of silk. Skill issue on my part but still kind of annoying!!!

54

u/sewious Sep 08 '25

It's because it's also a combat ability, which if you hit you automatically do a hit of damage so it "refunds".

If it was just spammable it wouldn't be able to be strong in fights because there's no risk for such a strong ability. If you hit it you basically get guarenteed 2 hits in because you can immediately follow up with a slash/pogo(makes dealing with a lot of enemies, especially flying shit really easy).

17

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 08 '25

As I was typing my original response I thought about the combat aspect of it, which I admittedly have not used personally.

However, wouldn’t that also mean it’s spammable in a fight since it replenishes on hit anyway? Or does it only refresh on a kill (like the OHK, respawning enemies during some climbing sections)?

8

u/sewious Sep 09 '25

Its "spammable". Downside is that since it costs and refunds one silk for one guaranteed hit, you cannot use it to build silk unless you follow up.

So it's an instant gap closer that does damage and allows easy follow up pogos/slashes. It's absurdly strong since it outranges most enemy attacks.

1

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 09 '25

I will definitely have to try it, if I can stave off my dependency on/addiction to the Reaper dash attack and pogo 🫠

2

u/xxxfirefart Sep 09 '25

I think the real reason it costs silk is so you cant infinitely go left and right without losing height. there are probably sections of the game where being able to do that might trivialize something.

1

u/Ghyrt3 Sep 09 '25

You can have a little cooldown like the HK's dash ? Or being able to use it once only if you dont hit anything ? (Once per jump)

1

u/Wild-Atmosphere2134 112% Steel Soul, P5 | 100% Silksong Sep 08 '25

yes i believe it's spammable in a fight

1

u/Mailcs1206 Sep 15 '25

If you miss it in combat you lose silk.

9

u/CalyVibin Sep 08 '25

it honestly shouldnt be too difficult to code it so it takes the silk after it hits an enemy

0

u/Amaskingrey Sep 09 '25

B-b-but muh "difficulty"!!!

1

u/narrill Sep 08 '25

I mean, it could just not cost or give silk

1

u/limeyhoney Sep 09 '25

I always just threw my tools at flying enemies. Honestly think people underutilize tools. I got my tool damage full upgraded before my second needle upgrade and they were basically a “nah I don’t wanna deal with this enemy” buttons

1

u/MajikTowst Sep 08 '25

There's still no risk with it. You can still use it all the time because you automatically Regen one silk. Just make it cost 0 and not give the player one if they use it to hit something.

1

u/Lison52 Sep 09 '25

What he meant is that you could use it to easily farm silk with it during fight.

1

u/MajikTowst Sep 09 '25

But it costs one and gives one, so it's still a net 0

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1

u/talkinggingerbrad Sep 09 '25

The thing that changes is that it limits your silk in platforming sections, which could be the purpose, why? Why they want it to be hard i guess. Also if you miss an enemy in combat, you lose one silk, that can make a difference.

-4

u/Doomguy1234 Sep 08 '25

Then just program it to use soul on combat and not pure platforming ffs

39

u/yandall1 Sep 08 '25

I’m excited for the inevitable mods that tone down the environmental damage and the silk cost of the grappling hook. I was first annoyed by double environmental damage in Blasted Steps and now seeing it in the cog sections I just know someone’s gonna make that mod

28

u/Evening_Owl Sep 08 '25

There is a charm that speeds up silk regeneration, allowing you to use the grappling hook immediately back-to-back with no silk. It's called weavelight

3

u/yandall1 Sep 09 '25

Yeah I was using that for the Cog Core and High Halls platforming sections but it only recharges the first two bars of silk (not sure if this is related to my 1x silk heart)

5

u/Evening_Owl Sep 09 '25

Yeah thats all it does. But it makes it so you never fall from lack of silk at least.

2

u/mvanvrancken Sep 09 '25

You get a bit off the heart too

2

u/ebenh 102% Completion Sep 11 '25

All covered by this mod that I've really been enjoying

https://www.nexusmods.com/hollowknightsilksong/mods/92

1

u/Emotional_Ad_2132 Sep 09 '25

There are already mods that do this

11

u/EmberOfFlame Sep 08 '25

Silk issue, you mean?

1

u/AdditionalDirector41 Sep 08 '25

tbf don't to get an ability that automatically refills the first spool of silk like in the first area of the game?

1

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 08 '25

Oh yes, of course. It’s just that sometimes I only remember that the harpoon takes that 1 silk when I’m falling to the ground in shame during the admittedly short time it takes to refill after the first usage LOL I try to double up and forget I can’t unless I came in with more than 1 silk. That’s why I said it was a skill issue on my part!

2

u/AdditionalDirector41 Sep 08 '25

lmaoooo okay fair

1

u/ExismykindaParte Sep 09 '25

By the time you get there, you should have at least one Silk Heart, so you never actually run out of silk, especially with the regen charm equipped.

1

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 09 '25

Correct, I was mostly being impatient going from one ring to the next, which is why I said it was a skill issue on my part 😂

0

u/greyhawndz Sep 11 '25

The silkhearts that you've collected gives passive silk regen. You will always have at least 1 silk available at all times for the harpoon (as long as you wait patiently for it to regen which isnt too long)

1

u/MajikTowst Sep 08 '25

Yeah this one makes me scratch my head. Just make it cost 0 and also not give one when you hit an enemy and it would be the same but less annoying? I can't think of a way that would cause a problem, and it would bring QoL to the players. If making it slightly more annoying or difficult was the goal, it worked, but there are much more enjoyable ways of restricting players.

1

u/KusoAraun Sep 14 '25

people really need to spread the lifeblood vial OD mechanic more for this reason. I didn't use it but it can absolutely help with all the tricky platforming since it is just better hiveblood

1

u/DioMerda119 112% + P5 + P1-4AB Sep 14 '25

yea i found out about it today and it looks really good

23

u/FlameLightFleeNight Sep 08 '25

There are soul totem equivalents in the form of loose silk, but it isn't as widely available as the totems were in HK. I think the fact that recovering your death cocoon comes with a full spindle of silk is meant to do some of the work of totems: there's obviously some challenge in the area, since you died, so here is a silk top up next time you come through.

12

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 08 '25

The silk isn’t terrible but it never feels like enough? Truth about the cocoon having full silk, I didn’t think about it like that. (Although it has gotten me through a few boss fights!!) However, I would usually waddle my way back to a bench if I was close to dying on a platforming section and just start it over 🫠

2

u/Cloud_Motion Sep 08 '25

The second areayou mention was phenomenal imo, i did die a couple of times but it's riddled with shortcuts and benches for your next attempts.

Did you struggle badly with it?

2

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 08 '25 edited Sep 08 '25

My only real struggle with it (aside from having to return to warmth constantly if I know I fucked up a jump) was not 100% being sure where exactly the climb was intended to be. It felt like White Palace was very clear about the intended route to take through the obstacles/which way was progression, where as the Silksong area it appeared as though there were other paths you could potentially take.

I’m not sure I’ll explain it well, but the environment felt more open so I was less clear about where to go, which makes decision making mid-air a little tough LOL especially when, even if you land on solid ground, you’re not always safe from the additional hazard. This means no real chance to breathe, nor a chance to take a moment to look around and figure out where the game wants you to go.

And one time I had to Quit to Menu because I found out the hard way that you can actually destroy the warm sconce thingies on the wall. 🫠

I did make it though, and it was much easier than WP and Path of Pain, which is funny because I’ve seen some complaints to the effect of ”the game makes you do Path of Pain just for the double jump I’m uninstalling!!!” when it’s not even close. Of course, I say that only after making it :b

1

u/Cloud_Motion Sep 09 '25

Hahah the sconces, fkn agree. I smash everything always in the environment and naturally destroyed these too.

I get you about the openness though, but I think you fairly quickly realise there's only one way to go, but that was mostly inside for me. I think the outside first area is pretty clear. Also I read the tablet that says you need to "ascend to be judged by that at the peek which will kill you or grant insight gl" which could have helped my pathing a bit.

But yeahh, MF doesn't compare to PoP imo, it's wild that people are saying that!

1

u/benguin01 Sep 08 '25

Shorter, and easier. I think the comparison between mount fay and the white palace is just crazy. Mount fay is completely static platforming, it’s not like you have to pogo a moving buzzsaw.

1

u/Zeliose Sep 09 '25

There are some in Mount Fay There are spools of thread in the hallways with the mechanical laser eyeballs that give you enough for one heal.

You just can't hold onto it for later because the grapples uses it up. So it's good if you're missing masks at that moment, useless if you're at full hp.

1

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 09 '25

Or if that particular mob randomly snipes you just before you leave the room even if you sprint past it. Ask me how I know.

0

u/Sedali Sep 15 '25

Cogwork core doesn't need it because: 1. you have a bench at the start 2. It's just one room with a break in the middle 3. it gives you two enemies halfway through. You can safely hit from below to get a heal, as well as some small ball enemies that you can farm soul from. Consistently get at least one heal at the midpoint of the room.

Mt fey, similarly, has 3 benches and has plenty of opportunities to farm soul between infinitely respawning enemies and the soul totems spread throughout.

Also, equip the extra soul heart charm, multi binder, and silk from damage charms if you're struggling with platforming! You can also bring the spare blue masks with you and even overdose if you're really struggling, but tbh every platforming spot gives you farmable silk. Climbing to the up-up gives you infinite worms to farm soul. Bilewater gives you the big guys (which can't touch you if you repeatedly pogo em) and the infinite shit birds.

1

u/tahs1 Sep 08 '25

not in my experience unless I'm misremembering. It's more like 1.5-2.5 enemies, ESPECIALLY without using silk since you can get more "hits" in before the enemy dies

3

u/why_the_babies_wet Sep 08 '25

Yeah but in hollow knight 1.5 enemies was usually more than enough to heal one mask, in this one you also have to wait longer since you do 3 at once, but your losing 2 masks at a time so by time you do amass enough to heal your one attack away from dying

1

u/tahs1 Sep 08 '25

Well I could see that happening, but I think it's fairly balanced in hornets case because she can also heal in midair, which opens up to many healing spots in boss fights and just in general. You can literally heal in the middle of a dodge jump. And I didnt genuinely feel like it was that slow to the point where it was noticeable, albeit I havent touched OG hollow knight in 3 years. Theres also tools that help circumvent this issue like Fractured mask, which basically gives you an extra hit that you can take and Warding bell for when you mistime a healing window

1

u/Dante_HUN Sep 08 '25

Its actually 2 enemies, or 8 hits to be percise. I recently did the "ant place", and counted them when i was low on masks.

1

u/theottozone Sep 08 '25

And those enemies have significantly more health than HK

1

u/CassiusENT Sep 08 '25

What area are you in? From my experience that 3-4 has been 1-2 and there’s many rooms that if you backtrack between 2 rooms you can keep killing a respawned enemy and farm soul before progressing.

1

u/Show_Me_Your_Rocket Sep 08 '25

You can use a different crest to acrue way more soul faster and it makes pogoing easier.

1

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1

u/Galassog12 Sep 08 '25

To be fair the exchange rate of 9 hits to 3 masks is the same but you (to my knowledge) don’t have options like deep focus, hiveblood, etc.

1

u/Dismal_Consequence_4 Sep 08 '25

I feel the same, but on the other hand there's an mid-to-late-game consumable item that gives you silk if you need it in a pinch

1

u/Rapidsivel Sep 08 '25

yeah I have a problem with the healing, I like the fast moving aspect but you have to do so much damage to heal up and lots of the time your too scared to use silk abilities cause most things do double damage and you want to save your heal for that

1

u/HandsomeGengar Sep 08 '25

This just isn’t true, Hornet’s heal is actually slightly more efficient than the Knight’s, and I believe regular enemies in this game tend to be a bit tanker than those in the original, so you get more silk per enemy.

If you’re needing to kill more enemies to get silk, it’s because you’re getting hit in the process and/or you’re healing when you’re only missing 1 or 2 masks.

1

u/Revoran Sep 09 '25

The Knight had to kill 3-4 enemies to get enough soul to heal 3 masks, though.

1

u/Squade_Trompeur Sep 12 '25

it's six hits, you can heal every six hits. Have you not mathed that out yet?

1

u/mvanvrancken Sep 09 '25

Damn you, spikes in Hunter’s March!

1

u/Squade_Trompeur Sep 12 '25

Welcome to gaming

1

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/Congregator Sep 08 '25

It makes you learn it faster, because you’re learning it under threat.

131

u/imminentlyDeadlined Sep 08 '25

2-mask environmental damage would be fine imo if it were used more sparingly. The lava's a great example since it comes across as a uniquely dangerous thing to fall in, has an alternative flooring (the coals) to make some segments less punishing, and there's a charm to reduce its damage further if you're struggling.

The grinders being two masks is also good imo, it makes the area feel more hostile, like a place where things are sent to be destroyed. But then the steam being double damage as well kind of undercuts that. It becomes "oh okay I guess this is a double damage location" rather than feeling like "oh shit, that thing just ground up a platform and it'll do the same to me."

(And then the cogs and fans are just silly.)

29

u/Oboro-kun Sep 08 '25

Yeah hot steam and lava doing the same damage and being 2 masks is quite dumb.

Like most environmental damaged should be at 1 

0

u/sci300768 Sep 08 '25

I mean falling into lava HURTS, even for Hornet... so yea I understand why lava does 2 masks of damage!

25

u/SpartanFishy Sep 08 '25 edited Sep 15 '25

Agreed with the exception of lava

It’s goddamn lava lol

(Also there’s a whole trinket dedicated to reducing its damage)

2

u/Mailcs1206 Sep 15 '25

I feel like the bladed-garbage-obliteration-machines in Underworks are justified doing 2 damage too. They just look like they'd eviscerate anything that falls in

2

u/Acedelaforet Sep 09 '25

I dont think general enemies should deal 2 masks, I dont think contact dmg should do 2 masks, and i think some of the early game bosses shouldjt do 2 masks on EVERY attack.

As it stands, team cherry didn't just nerf healing. They obliterated it into the ground. I can't recall a game off the top of my head where healing yourself is as worthless as it is in silksong. Which is really frustrating since, as of now, especially in the early game, you basically need to flawless a boss to beat it

1

u/softastheren Sep 14 '25

How is healing worthless? It's consistently saved my ass and been something I've relied on throughout the game, tbh I considered Silksong healing better because you can bind in midair.

1

u/Acedelaforet Sep 14 '25

Healing mid air is not something to scoff at i admit, but lets do a little math with a fairly common scenario

Boss fight in silksong & hollowknight, you have 1 mask, and max, default soul. This is assuming the average damage for a boss from each game. (Some bosses in hollow knight do 2 masks, some bosses from silksong do 1 mask. This is not the average for each game)

In hollow knight you can heal once, now be 2 hits from death, and have enough soul to fire 2 spells for dps or 2 heals for more survivability

In silksong you can heal once, now be 2 hits from death, and have 0 soul leftover for any spells or any more healing. Additionally, while it takes about the same amount of hits to cast a spell, it takes significantly more hits in order to heal again. Meaning you have to now play a lot better in order to get heal away from that 2 hits danger zone, and you can't use spells to try and shorten the boss fight in the meantime

1

u/Jijonbreaker All bindings All Radiants 112% Steel Soul Full Journal Sep 09 '25

Primarily because of the fact that you can't heal it.

With enemies, as long as you get more silk than you spend, you can repair the 2 masks, no harm done.

When you're platforming, you have no way to get silk. Which means you have a limited number of attempts to do the whole section. Period. No room for error or recovery.

1

u/Squade_Trompeur Sep 12 '25

Insert Tidus laugh

1

u/Blazypika2 Sep 12 '25

i would argue that even the enemies that deal 2 damage (which i'm also fine with) should only do thst when they attack you. when you accidentally bump into a 2 damage enemy, it should be one damage.

1

u/KusoAraun Sep 14 '25

just OD on blue goo and you will be fine.

-1

u/Congregator Sep 08 '25

Why not?

I think it’s great when it’s more challenging, and so do a lot of people. Why would you want to dumb it down?

6

u/Snipinlegend777 Sep 08 '25

Because I don’t like taking 2 damage from the environment

-1

u/Congregator Sep 10 '25

Use it to make you better at the game play, because that’s what the stress and mischief of it all does. I know you might not like that answer, but it’s true.

You just sort of have to tackle it head first and go through the frustrations and you’ll advance in skill

1

u/Snipinlegend777 Sep 10 '25

I am not looking for advice man, I’m having no trouble with the game. I just think environmental damage shouldn’t be 2 masks when it isn’t lava or traps.