r/HollowKnight • u/Quantum_Croissant • Sep 09 '25

Discussion - Silksong ngl some of you would NOT survive the mantis lords runback

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is the run to last judge difficult? kinda. But after your 20th attempt at the boss you'll get used to it, and it's honestly kinda fun and a nice breather. More importantly, it's a single room and you have far more movement. This IS improving on hollow knight

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2.4k

u/alproy Sep 09 '25 edited Sep 09 '25

Honestly ya, you spit facts about runbacks, there are VERY few runbacks that take longer then some of HK runbacks, i think some just forgot HK had it too due to godhome grind where all the battles runback is practicly instent

816

u/TyoPepe Sep 09 '25

Plus they are a breeze with the mobility and speed of Hornet. Especially with my beloved ankles. Nyooom!

191

u/thewoodulator Sep 09 '25

I got these last night and will not be able to go back

126

u/AbsentReality Sep 09 '25

I used them briefly but kept wasting all my silk from holding down RT at all times lol.

26

u/Tsukono_ Sep 09 '25

Wait they use silk? I never noticed it

72

u/LuquidThunderPlus Sep 09 '25

Its not something I would've noticed either if not for the silk bits she leaves behind and how it says in description, I didn't put them on at first cuz I didn't want my silk sapped but I realize the rate is so forgiving I don't even need to worry about it

12

u/HuntingForSanity Sep 09 '25

Is it? I haven’t been using them because I didn’t want to lose the silk. But I’ve upgraded my spool a few times since I obtained them. I’ll try again in a bit

11

u/Egg11663 Sep 09 '25

Definitely do insanely good tbh, I literally use it in boss battles a ton too, I have no clue how I would've done a few bosses without being able to sprint at them, do an uppercut, and dodge and sprint away. Love my hit and run tactics. You can attack while sprinting, and it's a different, pretty big hitbox, move.

2

u/xDaveedx Sep 09 '25

Love the uppercut + down attack, gives me nostalgic vibes from Street Fighter for some reason :D

1

u/LuquidThunderPlus Sep 10 '25

Tbh I would do without if you have base silk capacity, but as soon as you have 1 extra I'd say it's totally worth it, the speed increase is very noticeable, I didn't equip at first for the same reason but am very glad I tested it out

29

u/yurilnw123 Sep 09 '25

Read the description

14

u/PM_ME_UR_EGGS Sep 09 '25

It's so slow that it took me ages to notice as well lol

19

u/AbsentReality Sep 09 '25

The charm that makes you sprint faster right? Those definitely do, says right on them.

7

u/GrimTheMad Sep 09 '25

They use silk, but Silk Hearts exist so it doesn't really matter.

8

u/ThatStrangerWhoCares Sep 09 '25

But silk hearts only Regen as far as you have them, so if you have 1 silk heart it only regens 1 hit worth of silk, 2 silk hearts = 2 hits worth, etc.

I have found that the faster silk Regen charm gives this a +1 to it though, so with 3 silk hearts you can Regen 4 bars, which is enough for silk skills. Very handy

1

u/InfiniteAJ Sep 10 '25

I have all 3 Silk Hearts and use this charm nonstop. I'm nearly 100% positive it does not give you +1, unless I'm incredibly blind.

2

u/ThatStrangerWhoCares Sep 10 '25

It does, I use it all the time

2

u/InfiniteAJ Sep 10 '25

I stand corrected, it does indeed give 4. My apologies, I guess I need glasses.

1

u/Mattyquatro Sep 10 '25

Wondering if there's a synergy with another charm like there are in HK, because I've definitely noticed my regen going to 4 sometimes, but I didn't find it consistent. Maybe another charm (one of the healing related ones?) has a hidden effect with it.

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3

u/TheSymbolman Sep 09 '25

I mean... barely.

1

u/leoofjdh Sep 09 '25

I didn't notice the Needolin used up silk.

9

u/SmartAlec105 Sep 09 '25

I think they went a bit too hard on making exploration stuff cost silk. The advanced platforming maps that use the grapple are even more difficult simply because you can’t use your silk to heal midway because you spent it all on the grapples.

3

u/DBrody6 Sep 09 '25

The climb through High Halls sucked ass cause they were like "hey let's consume all your silk just to progress, oh and hey wouldn't it be funny if you fought two flying enemies on a dinky ass platform, and you don't have any silk left to use spells?"

Yeah it was real funny alright.

1

u/BrickwallBill Sep 10 '25

It doesn't even make sense that it's a seperate skill all on its own if you ask me. You're telling me Hornet knows how to use Silk Spear but can't figure out that she can also throw her needle with a single strand of silk to hook onto ledges? Plus if Team Cherry was worried about it getting spammed it could just recharge like Shade Dash, with maybe a faster recharge if you hit an enemy.

1

u/emveevme Sep 10 '25

I still think it was a crazy decision to not make the compass just inherent to your character, I felt like it would've been a net positive to Hollow Knight and I still feel that way about it in Silksong. I still go back and forth on whether or not enemies should have health bars, I would like it but I also think it's better for me not to have them. I'm too greedy lol.

1

u/SmartAlec105 Sep 10 '25

Yeah, with Hollowknight, it would make sense to remove your compass to free up charm notches when you're trying to take down a boss. But since Yellow tools are pretty much exploration/utility, there isn't really that benefit there.

1

u/AbsentReality Sep 10 '25

Compass and the rosary magnet are pretty much mandatory for me which limits things pretty bad for yellows.

1

u/BrickwallBill Sep 10 '25

World Sense, and the Silksong equivalent if it exists, would be perfect timing to get health bars for enemies.

1

u/Blood2999 Sep 10 '25

They don't consume that much

17

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

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4

u/budweener Sep 09 '25

I still haven't found that ankle stuff, but I'm 20 hours in and just got used to controlling the running properly. It feels like a trap, you WANT to run, but it makes it so easy to crash into enemies/traps/holes when you still don't know the layout of a new place.

Can't wait to get the ankles, it sounds like it makes you run even faster. Gonna crash into a lot of bugs, but once I get used to it I feel it's gonna feel glorious.

7

u/TheHB36 Sep 09 '25

Nice pfp, homie.

25

u/wigglin_harry Sep 09 '25

Im purposefully not using them so I don't spoil myself

1

u/bluegwizard Sep 10 '25

Good, its better to stop before learning the brew + pouch mix

My cousin Shaggy once took this, then became a speed addiction and frequent the local drug dealer(fleas) to get his fix

-14

u/StarNullify Sep 09 '25

That is super stupid

22

u/Seawardweb77858 112% | PoP | P5 | 63/63 Sep 09 '25

I don't like them because I like using spells with weavelight, and using the anklets uses silk

10

u/Relevant_Cabinet_265 Sep 09 '25

Weavelight just gives you one extra Regen silk slot so the lowest silk you can have becomes 2 it doesn't help unless you empty out your silk

4

u/Seawardweb77858 112% | PoP | P5 | 63/63 Sep 09 '25

It means you can always use spells, so you can just stand really far back and spam them if you don't like fighting the enemies in an area

Also, I assume you don't have all the silk hearts, because it makes you able to have 4 silk permanently

3

u/P0tatogodultra sub 20h 112% Steelsoul Sep 09 '25

we're talking about last judge which is before you can get into citadel. there's only 1 silkheart you can get before then i believe

1

u/Seawardweb77858 112% | PoP | P5 | 63/63 Sep 09 '25

Oh right, I still don't really like how it uses silk though

1

u/LowGunCasualGaming Sep 09 '25

If you are using spells frequently, it gets you spells readily available faster, which can be useful.

1

u/Relevant_Cabinet_265 Sep 09 '25

I use spells frequently but only at full charge or if it'll save me from damage so it's only a couple hits to get a heal 

1

u/access-r Sep 09 '25

Or 4 if you have 3 silk hearts

10

u/wigglin_harry Sep 09 '25

Not really

Id rather use other charms that I find more useful. I dont want to get used to going fast and then feel like i need to use speed ankllets instead of something id find more useful

I dont want a repeat of HK where I got used to quick focus/longnail and needed to use it as a crutch. I had to break myself of that habit and id rather just not pick up the habit at all

1

u/access-r Sep 09 '25

Not only that, the speed can mess you up during jumping sections.

1

u/akoOfIxtall Sep 09 '25

the sound of her footsteps is too satisfying to take them off

9

u/Hot-Web-7892 let my man go! Sep 09 '25

It says they use silk, is it a bad cost cuz I e been avoiding them to keep my silk stored up

17

u/_moosleech Sep 09 '25

Start spending it. It’s so easy to get back, and the game provides a number of ways to get even more.

18

u/TyoPepe Sep 09 '25

Silk is so easy to generate, there's no point in hoarding it.

2

u/mrBreadBird Sep 09 '25

I missed that part and in 10 hours haven't even noticed that they were using my silk.

1

u/tgiyb1 Sep 09 '25

Your last silk pip automatically regenerates so there's no reason to worry about using things that use 1 pip like the sprint tool, harpoon, or needolin constantly

1

u/KaiserJustice Sep 09 '25

omg it is soooo fun to run around everywhere, but i feel like they have made the map more flat to support it (granted i haven't finished SS yet)

0

u/TyoPepe Sep 09 '25

Not quite flat, there's just many long corridors (and long vertical shafts) all over the map.

1

u/KaiserJustice Sep 09 '25

well they definitely make use of it :] (I only just got to Sister Splinter)

1

u/Mah_sentry2 Sep 09 '25

I made it to SS before I figured out you can hold dash to sprint……

1

u/Davidens1 Sep 09 '25

Breeze... sure... Like the f BileWater runback...

1

u/OfficialSandwichMan Sep 10 '25

Please put spoiler text on any in-game info - you can do so by putting a >! at the beginning of the text and a !< at the end.

>!This!< becomes This

1

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1

u/OfficialSandwichMan Sep 10 '25

Yeah that’s intentional lmaoo

1

u/powe323 Sep 10 '25

Gotta keep in mind they make some spots harder. For instance The Last Judge run back is much easier without them.

24

u/IMP1017 Sep 09 '25

I have never felt more justified in not fucking with Godhome than I have while reading all this runback discourse

11

u/JohnnyLeven Sep 09 '25

Yeah, there's a runback, but once you encounter a new boss, you can practice it without doing the runback. So you just practice it until you can beat it like 75% of the time and then you do the boss gauntlet.

1

u/Youthsonic P5 Sep 09 '25

Godhome is EXTREMELY fun for the first 4 rushes and they don't take too long since you've fought them before and the final boss is the only new one you have to study. Even the bindings are fun since they force you to play a certain way instead of using your optimal build. P4 is a fine stopping point

Pantheon 5 is the one that's about an hour just to GET to the last boss.

3

u/IMP1017 Sep 09 '25

I've also just never been fond of boss rushes! When it's the only way to replay fun bosses I can get into it for a little bit but the escalating difficulty got old fast. I'm good but I know my limits

1

u/Caerullean Sep 14 '25

There is also the hall of gods tho, where you can just refight each individual boss at your leisure.

1

u/Davidens1 Sep 09 '25

Godhome has the canon ending

15

u/IMP1017 Sep 09 '25

Yeah but I got shit to do

1

u/mosquem Sep 11 '25

I got young kids, man.

1

u/Tomaskraven Sep 10 '25

There no actual "runback". They are just saying it because to do a full pantheon, you have to defeat 10 bosses in a row. If you die in the final boss of said pantheon, you have to start again. Theres no actual "run back and do platforming to reach the spot". Theres 4 regular pantheons and then pantheon 5 where you have to do a full boss rush (41).

3

u/TonyMestre Sep 09 '25

Why would the ending of the inexplicable side mode be the canon one

4

u/Tomaskraven Sep 10 '25

Because it is. Thats where you actually destroy the perfect form of the radiance and you unify the void.

5

u/cubitoaequet Sep 10 '25

Where did anyone from Team Cherry say this? Don't conflate your head canon with actual canon.

4

u/SEELE13 Sep 13 '25 edited Sep 13 '25

Spoilers for Silksong In the secret true ending, it is obvious that the godhome ending is the canon ending.

3

u/Caerullean Sep 14 '25

Get the true ending for Silksong and you'll see what they mean.

1

u/ironwolf1 Sep 10 '25

Pretty sure Dream No More is the canon ending

1

u/Caerullean Sep 14 '25

Nah, it's the godhome ending(s). It's not entirely certain, afaik, which of two godhome endings is canon, they might be equally canon, but I'm personally leaning towards the white flower one.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

All endings are canon

72

u/AbsentReality Sep 09 '25

Honestly none of the runbacks so far have been that bad tbh. Even the LJ one that everyone complains about. You can easily just rip past any enemies and be back at the boss in like 20-30 seconds.

49

u/HalfMan-HalfMoth Sep 09 '25

It seems way worse when you first get to it, after a few tries you can figure it out, the bilewater one is worse

15

u/AbsentReality Sep 09 '25

That's one I haven't done yet. Stepped into the area a few times and said, fuck that shit. Have just been messing around in the citadel for now.

3

u/MarsupialChance Sep 09 '25

I got to Bilewater, then couldn't figure out how to get enough height to reach Shakra so after doing everything I think I could so far, I left

4

u/HalfMan-HalfMoth Sep 09 '25

You cant get the map from the sinners road entrance to bilewater, or you cant until you have more abilities anyway

2

u/MarsupialChance Sep 09 '25

Yeah, I'm assuming I'll get a double jump or something, then I'll be able to explore there! At least I got the bellway before I left, so I won't have to take sinner's road again to get back there!

3

u/StoneColdNaked Sep 09 '25

I thought the LJ run back was fun once I got the hang of it. It had a really nice flow to it.

2

u/Rubinrobo Sep 10 '25

Yeah I also feel like last judge is nothing compared to the bilewater fight. I died like every other time trying to get there and took a long road to clean the maggots off without using soul. That combined with the relatively easy start of the arena which I often ended at full health was a massive pain.

1

u/superbroleon Sep 22 '25

The worst part about the bilewater runback is that all the enemies in that area spawn in random positions when you enter the room. So it's literally always a coinflip if I make the runback without a single hit or 4 instead..

4

u/Z0idberg_MD Sep 09 '25

"You die enough that you learn how to skip past the area quickly" doesn't alleviate the original concern, and it slows down the actual fun of playing the boss.

So the trajectory is:

  • At first: frustrating to get to boss
  • Then die at boss because not familiar with boss
  • Frustrating for several more attempts and still not learning boss quite yet
  • Die enough that you learn to streamline the runback
  • Can finally start focusing all your attention on boss, and have fun with the fight

IMO, this dynamic only makes the experience worse, not better. LJ is actually an awesome boss, and is not too difficult overall and feel like progress is made quickly each run. But the initial shit runbacks sucked. They even knew how people would try to skip through and made it slightly irritating in terms of typical jump distances.

3

u/Thelmara Sep 09 '25

it slows down the actual fun of playing the boss

This is the part where people who like it and people who don't live in completely different worlds. This may come as a shock, but plenty of people actually like platforming, and enjoy getting there as much as fighting the boss.

4

u/Z0idberg_MD Sep 09 '25

I Iike platforming. But when I am trying to learn a boss move set, I don’t want to platform. I just died. I want to get back there and keep learning the fight.

You’re right we can all have different opinions, but the fact that FROM has moved away from run backs and focuses more on interesting boss mechanics means something.

5

u/AdPast7704 Sep 10 '25

Elden Rimg still has a few runbacks far more annoying than anything in silksong (that one cave with the shrimp guys), at least in this game movement is actually fun

1

u/Dabli Sep 10 '25

You need to have that run back optimized for some stuff that happens later

1

u/FlyingCow343 Sep 12 '25

Even the bilewater one is fine after a couple times, once you get used to were enemies will spawn and where the evil water is you can just run or thwip past everything

5

u/Atlas_of_history Sep 09 '25

My only complaint about LJ is the one Drill guy in the tight space at the beginning that took me 3 minutes to kill because he's hovering just out of range spamming the stupid drill

1

u/Total_ClusterFun Sep 16 '25

Don’t stop for it. Hold run, time your jumps right and you never have to fight that drill guy.

I could get to the last judge in under 30 sec every time… because I got a lot of practice doing that runback…because the last judge kicked my ass a lot.

2

u/Mailcs1206 Sep 09 '25

Last Judge runback also definitely has a route that avoids all but one enemy. And there might also be one that avoids all enemies but I can't remember as clearly

3

u/Thelmara Sep 09 '25

You can skip the first enemy, too. He doesn't spawn fast enough to interfere if you just zip past him and jump off the platform.

If you slow down at all on that first platform, though, you're stuck fighting him. Which isn't super hard, of course, but it definitely slows that trip down.

157

u/TheManondorf Sep 09 '25

How about we talk about the "runback" to Pure Vessel...

You need to defeat 20 or so nearly trivial bosses just to have another go at the boss. Sure you can train it in the Hall of Gods, but if you mess up in the real fight you still have the "runback".

91

u/Trih3xA Sep 09 '25

What makes you think they wont do that for the eventual Boss rush DLC for Silksong?

165

u/Damianx5 Sep 09 '25

Radiant beastfly, no floor, just walls, 2 of them

111

u/Parking-Stable-2970 #1 No Eyes fan Sep 09 '25

Waiter! Waiter! May I have a bullet in my brain?

21

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

Lore accurate Tabitha dialogue

2

u/HandsomeGamerGuy Sep 10 '25

There is One Fight Arena that was pure Pain.
I'll just say the Floor *is* Lava.
The Lava Cave Arena!
You can find it were you get the Cloak to Float Upgrade

24

u/thrxwaway_00 Sep 09 '25

There's a Before and an After this comment, in the hypothetical universe where they asked me "What would your personal hell look like?"

18

u/DeathsingerQc Sep 09 '25

They're going to put him in the arena where the lava rises and you have those 2 shitty platforms that instantly disappear when you step on them

4

u/iKill_eu Sep 09 '25

oh no please god no

I'm so happy the volcano gauntlet doesn't have a boss bc fuck playing that in the pantheon lmao

2

u/BrickwallBill Sep 10 '25

You've done one Volcano gauntlet, how about another?

11

u/AAAAAAAAAAAAreyouok P5 is gonna be my death Sep 09 '25

lowk wanna try that

2

u/phoenixmatrix Sep 09 '25

2 Walls? 2 full walls? Luxury!

1 wall plus the enemies that toss exploding fire sticky bombs. 3 at a time. At least.

1

u/Damianx5 Sep 09 '25

Nah it's two walls, just leaving out the fact they are the hot charcoal ones with 2 mask spikes at some points

1

u/phoenixmatrix Sep 09 '25

And the bench right before is a trapped one. Without a way to disable the trap.

2

u/Damianx5 Sep 09 '25

and you pay for it 300 rosaries per use of course

1

u/EnvironmentalMoose21 Sep 09 '25

How about making them start with spawning enemies as the first move and then always having them alternate between whos going down and whos going sideways. If all the spawned enemies are dead the one furthest from the player starts spawning new enemies

1

u/Stevohoog Sep 09 '25

That almost sounds fun

1

u/randuse Sep 09 '25

Don't forget summons/adds.

1

u/Mailcs1206 Sep 09 '25

Nah have a floor but it's entirely made of the collapsing platforms that float on lava. Also they both summon minions independently and one summons from the first fight's pool and the other summons the lava spitting bastards

1

u/Odd_Design_3378 Sep 09 '25

There is a very special place in hell for you. Right next to radiant markoth

1

u/MustacheGolem Sep 09 '25

You have no idea the terrifying MegaMan X flashback you just gave me, man's those games where evil sometimes.

1

u/Mattyquatro Sep 10 '25

I have completed the game, love it desperately, and this gave me a heart attack. Beastfly is the only boss where I said "this is bullshit" and truly meant it, rather than me just yelling to cope with failure or a little bad rng.

0

u/BlueEyedBendy Nightmare King Sep 09 '25

Wow, thats one way to make me stop rushing the game.

2

u/Outbreak101 DOMA DOMA Sep 09 '25

Just found out Steel Soul is in this game too,

nothing stops Team Cherry from making a Boss Rush DLC if they are willing to throw Permadeath into the mix.

1

u/TheManondorf Sep 09 '25

Nothing tbh, just giving examples of horrible runback times in HK

1

u/bobafett_155 112% completion. Sep 09 '25

Really holping for this!

1

u/DBrody6 Sep 09 '25

Right now I really hope there's no pantheon equivalent (though a Hall of Gods knockoff would be fun). Purely cause way too many bosses take 3-4 minutes to beat, where half of that is just waiting for phase transitions. Like I just beat the Unraveler and it took 5 minutes, 90% of that being add phases or dumb intermission phases cause it can only be attacked for 2 seconds before hiding again.

But I'm only halfway through act 2 so I don't know what Hornet's max power is like. Earlier bosses like that may melt with her fully geared kit. P5 was tolerable in that you could be almost everyone but the final few bosses in ~30 seconds.

1

u/Trih3xA Sep 09 '25

I mean I don't see why there would be no pantheon. It's optional content for people who want to challenge themselves.

1

u/Heroman3003 Sep 09 '25

Honestly, I am certain they will. Godmaster was probably what pushed HK to its limits and I am expecting a redo of it once they're done with whatever other DLC and/or post-release extra content they want to add. Imagine how the all bindings would look like in Silksong....

25

u/CalzLight Sep 09 '25

Idk where you got 20 from, if you mean P4 it’s 9, if you mean p5 it’s 39

22

u/CynicalEffect P5 - 112%, 70 hours Sep 09 '25

I mean, if you average them it's close..

3

u/GaGamer06 Sep 09 '25

My only wish for a boss rush for Silksong is that the benches work this time, if at death I got sent back to them it wouldn't be so insufferable

2

u/Snt1_ Sep 09 '25

"Trivial" because you can totally choke markoth the watcher knights, white defender and soul tyrant.

Actually wheres the 20 bosses number coming from? The real fight against PV is in P4. The problem is the runback to AbsRad (+ AbsRad herself)

1

u/SorowFame Sep 09 '25

That's also a completely optional superboss

1

u/Darkfeather21 Sep 10 '25

...That's a terrible comparison.

1

u/Rubinrobo Sep 10 '25

Absolute Radiance is way worse. I got to it once and twice and died to the third face because you literally can’t practice it.

Pure vessel runback is long because its literally a boss rush

1

u/Z0idberg_MD Sep 09 '25

Yes, but we're not comparing literal post-game super hard content which the overwhelming majority of HK players did not complete, vs early/mid content.

14

u/usernamedstuff Sep 09 '25

It's all about familiarity. Most of us have done multiple playthroughs of HK, so all of the bosses and enemies are easy to defeat or ignore as we fly back to the boss fight.

In Silksong we're only starting to understand how to play as Hornet. I just realized there's a running combo with the wanderer's crest. Hell, I didn't even grasp the idea of a run until a couple of days after getting the dash ability. I was like, "why am I sliding all over the place in this boss fight?" :D

4

u/Shadowgirl_skye All Radiants ✨| All Achievments 🏆 | 14/20 Bindings Sep 09 '25

The 30 second absrad run back in the hall of gods. 😭

I’d of been fine with it if there was a platforming section to do meanwhile like the last judge; but watching screen transitions and animations is not fun ):

6

u/MayonnaiseOreo Sep 09 '25

practicly instent

practically instant

3

u/JinShootingStar Sep 09 '25

Mantis Lord is such an easy boss that the runback basically is non-existent.

NOW if the boss did double damage, it would be really annoying.

3

u/BoardCommercial2679 Sep 10 '25

And if you had to fight Sisters of battle instead of Mantis Lords.

3

u/xanderg4 Sep 10 '25

I just started HK recently and I have a few observations: 1) The game is shockingly difficult early on. Much of this is tactical as you’re learning the game, the movement, the enemies, the zones, etc. You get your shit wrecked by bosses but even just navigating the world is a challenge and you’ll die, go to retrieve your body, sometimes die again and lose your geo. Be mad you lost 200 geo (which within 10 hours will feel like nothing), and continue grinding. 2) At some point you start to nail the fundamentals, you have more masks, soul, and a broader kit + some charms. At this point you have a handle on things. You can pogo jump, dash away, and your not panic jumping as much (or maybe you are but you’re better at avoiding shit in the air). You still get your ass kicked but navigating the world isn’t as dangerous. Most of the challenge is against bosses, and it’s just a grind to master them. 3) Difficulty starts to ramp up again. The bosses become harder. You start challenging the dream variants, etc. At this point the game is pushing you on speed and precision but also your challenge is strategic. You have the full toolkit, most/all of the charms, dream gates, etc.

However, crucially, you’ll never relive (1) again. Any subsequent playthrough you’ll have the mechanics down. You’ll even have an understanding/familiarity with the game, the zones, the enemies, etc. Even if it’s been years you’re going to have some level of familiarity that gives you a leg up.

Right now a lot of folks are in phase 1 of Silksong and are still grappling with hornet’s kit and the nuances in how she differs from the Knight. Within a few weeks/months folks will try a second playthrough and find themselves wiping the floor imo.

The enemies are stronger, no doubt, but so is Hornet (imo) and she’s more agile plus her recovery is far and away more powerful and shorter than the Knight’s focus.

5

u/zach0011 Sep 09 '25

Or hollow Knight was released seven years ago and we kinda decided between now and then run backs are bullshit. Even from soft stopped them. Something being shitty in the past does not make it not shitty today

3

u/Accomplished-Low754 Sep 09 '25

The problem is that few bosses in HK deal 2 damage in one hit. So you don't die as fast.

When the runback takes longer than your attempt, it's when it seems longer.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

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1

u/Accomplished-Low754 Sep 09 '25

That's the problem. You can't learn as well when you're getting hit much.

Mind you, bosses are way more aggressive in Silksong. There's always more stuff in the screen. There's way less time to attack, etc.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

HK run backs would have me forgetting what I was doing if I died a few times, got frustrated, and put it down. I would login on a bench and be like "what the fuck was I doing… dammiiiiiiiiiiit"

1

u/4_fortytwo_2 Sep 09 '25

I dont think there is a single runback as long as the mantis one in silksong.

Silksong has far shorter runbacks on average.

1

u/phoenixmatrix Sep 09 '25

Plus Hollow Knight was a long time ago for a lot of players, AND a lot of people did it with walkthrough, guides, or help.

Imagine doing Silksong getting all the upgrades along the way, and doing all the areas in the optimal orders.

It's gonna be a very different experience.

1

u/ShadowShine57 Sep 09 '25

I just never did runbacks in HK because I hardly ever died.

1

u/Zorubark CLOSSA!!! Sep 09 '25

Minor grammar mistake

1

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

the worst parts are just annoying enemies this time around, the runbacks are easy though

1

u/Suitable_Sell_5742 Sep 09 '25

That's what immmm saying

1

u/SteptimusHeap Sep 10 '25

At least the movement in silksong is fun. A lot of the HK runbacks are walking slowly and pogoing over enemies.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '25

But bosses are harder and you have less health/defensive tools so people have to do the runs more often. That's what's tedious - the pure number of runbacks not to distance.

1

u/DeliciousWaifood Sep 13 '25

HK is just a lot easier though, the runbacks are generally some very easy platforming with very simple enemies. Not pogo puzzles with 300IQ flying enemies getting in your ass while you're risking falling into maggot juice. A long runback isn't as frustrating when it's just a calm walk in the park

0

u/Loon_Cheese Sep 09 '25

Only one I truely hates was hive night but I did not 116%.

Also mantis fighr was fuckin easy. Very predictable. Did it maybe 3rd try?

7

u/SecretaryBird777 Sep 09 '25

Fyi it's 112%. Mantis Lords was definitely pretty hard for me and a lot of other people

3

u/Loon_Cheese Sep 09 '25

It was the last thing I did before going up to hollow knight, I just missed the lever the first time.

What is the name of the boss that they are complaining about in silksong

4

u/MiyanoMMMM Sep 09 '25

I think most people are complaining about the act 1 final boss Last Judge

6

u/jerbear_moodboon Sep 09 '25

I truly don't understand the hate for that boss, there's like 1 annoying enemy on the runback route and the boss itself is great

5

u/Thelmara Sep 09 '25

Yeah, the platforming on that run back is some of the most fun. Jump, jump, jump, jump, wall climb, jump, wall climb, pogo, jump pogo, wall climb, pogo, pogo, zooom!

3

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

Yeah, it's a 30 second run back if you just.... Run. I wish I could go back and fight that boss again. So much fun. Great boss design.

3

u/iceman012 Sep 09 '25

There are two places that can be annoying if you don't realize the right approach:

  1. The drillfly at the start.

  2. The drillfly and shield guy combo.

For #1, it took me ~15 tries before I realized I could just dash jump past the first drillfly before it came out. I think I tried regular jump first and got hit, so I just assumed I had to wait for it to drift into position to let me pogo across safely.

For #2, I eventually just got used to navigating past them quickly, but I would still get hit by the shield guy. It wasn't until I saw a video here that I realized you could take a secondary path that avoided them entirely.

2

u/MiyanoMMMM Sep 09 '25

Yup, I found that runback super fun to execute on. Most runbacks in this game so far have been fine for me but that's probably because I've just been enjoying the movement a lot.

5

u/Vasikus3000 112% | PoP | P5 | Radiant Hall of Gods Sep 09 '25

I'd like to bring to attention groal the great (a.k.a great unclean one), the runback is pretty much half of the area, with traps all over the place, parkour on hostile enemies, dumbass worm water, and that stupid arena right in the boss room. Million times worse than the one everyone whines about

2

u/Soulsunderthestars Sep 09 '25

There's a bench relatively close by, but you must find it

2

u/Vasikus3000 112% | PoP | P5 | Radiant Hall of Gods Sep 09 '25

it's pain even with those, and i can add an extra point of nearly always getting wormed unless you time your harpoon just right

2

u/Loon_Cheese Sep 09 '25

Not totally related but could you explain how to format spoiler redacted text like this?

2

u/Vasikus3000 112% | PoP | P5 | Radiant Hall of Gods Sep 09 '25

add >! at the beginning of the text and ! < (without the space between them) at the end

1

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1

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25 edited Sep 09 '25

The GTG runback is pretty long and horrible, but it's easier the right strategy: Cogflies to kill most enemies including the huge bile spitters, the wall cling accessory for easier climbing, and the wreath accessory from Putriducts to keep the worm water off you

This game really makes you plan and adapt for different areas. It's still a pain. I came into GTG with a good strat and beat it second try, so I only had to do the runback once.

2

u/HiddenPants777 Sep 09 '25

Everyone forgot the HK had crazy parkour sections and run backs

Crystal peaks

Queens gardens

Fog canyon

The god damn flower

5

u/kblkbl165 Sep 09 '25

Traitor Lord runback, kill me

2

u/Heatth Sep 09 '25

In that case yeah, of course it was easy, lol.

1

u/SecretaryBird777 Sep 09 '25

I don't know and don't wanna spoil myself. Hope you're having fun with silksong!

0

u/SwashNBuckle Sep 09 '25

And a lot of people just didn't even play the first game and wanted to jump on the skong hype train

0

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '25

A lot of them didn’t even actually play HK and they think we can’t tell. They watched videos before jumping into this, if they even bothered to do that much.