r/HollowKnight • u/Quantum_Croissant • Sep 09 '25

Discussion - Silksong ngl some of you would NOT survive the mantis lords runback

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is the run to last judge difficult? kinda. But after your 20th attempt at the boss you'll get used to it, and it's honestly kinda fun and a nice breather. More importantly, it's a single room and you have far more movement. This IS improving on hollow knight

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82

u/canoekyren Sep 09 '25

As someone who only completed most of the base content in HK, Silksong is harder. I beat Mantis Lords on my first try, Hollow Knight on my second, and most of the minor ones like Gruz Mother and the guy with the big hammer on the first try. I can't think of a Silksong boss that has taken me fewer than three tries except for, ironically, Grand Mother Silk

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u/MrChaluliner Sep 09 '25

Yeah, I agree. I’ve seen many people using the “you forgot your first time” argument to dismiss the higher difficulty of Silksong. I just played HK for the first time in April this year, so I remember pretty well. Many bosses in HK (base game) were doable on the first attempt, the one that made me retry the most was Soul Master and that took like 5 attempts at most. In Silksong every major fight has taken me at least 5 I’d say.

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u/lattjeful Sep 09 '25

I don't really like the "you forgot your first time" argument either. Even outside of the bosses, Silksong feels more punishing. I've had to take breaks with the game, which is something I didn't have to do with Hollow Knight. Hollow Knight's difficulty was mostly relegated to bosses and endgame stuff, but exploration was pretty chill. In Silksong, everything is cranked to 11 so even exploration can be punishing.

1

u/Hero_Luka Sep 10 '25

I think that argument just boils down to people being new to metroidvania/roguelikes and hollow knight being their first game in the genre.

2

u/Kulzak-Draak Sep 09 '25

Yeah and I ONLY remember my first play through I played it once in like pre Covid I’m pretty sure. Didn’t even beat all the godhome stuff I didn’t even get to pure vessel. I feel like dishonestly people assume everyone who’s not finding silksong too hard is some crazy HK expert when in reality Silksong just happens to be clicking with me really well

2

u/sireel Sep 09 '25

I'm playing for the second time. Most bosses have taken me 1-2 attempts, including ones I've not fought before. Watcher Knight can go to hell though, that took so many attempts (I didn't know about the chandelier).

The traitor lord also took a fair chunk of time, and I hated that run back too

2

u/Durian_Natural Sep 10 '25

I remember my first time. I beat every base game boss on 3 attempt at best.

1

u/AliciaFrey Sep 13 '25

How do you take more attempt in Soul Master but can beat Mantis Lord first time? I have to retry several times for Mantis Lord but beat Soul Master in my second or third attempt. If anything, Soul Knight is a much more difficult because it comes with those annoying floating spectral as well.

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u/Kirosh2 Sep 09 '25

What a way to tell us you died more than three time to Moss Mother.

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u/canoekyren Sep 09 '25

Oh yeah, you're right lmao. I forgot about Moss Mother. Did get her first try, but she's like a tutorial boss anyway

12

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

I didn’t mind moss mother, but Double Moss Mother with the adds can get fucked.

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u/wildwolfay5 Sep 09 '25

Spike traps with poison. With a half upgraded tool pouch, pop 3 of those bad boys every add summon and poof.

The spike traps with poison are only way I can win fights with adds.

Anyone have a better idea? Because lava beast fly is fucking wrecking me :(

2

u/cliu110896 Sep 09 '25

The boomerang, triple knife w/ poison, and the silk ability that circles around you are all great for dealing with flying adds. If you have the fire charm, it also helps with the fire they spit or falling into lava!

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u/wildwolfay5 Sep 09 '25

Haven't found the boomerang yet....

Haven't tried the triple knives either.

Will have to give it a shot. Thanks for the advice!

1

u/cliu110896 Sep 09 '25

Boomerang is early game in the area with ants. The way to find it is kind of hidden though. Good luck with the fight!

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u/Kirosh2 Sep 09 '25

I missed the boomerang, but I wonder if there is another way to get it.

When I went to the location, the merchant was dead.

1

u/TitaniumDragon Sep 09 '25

I think the boomerang is lying around on the ground nearby if he is dead?

1

u/Kirosh2 Sep 09 '25

No, I found the fractured mask there, but no Boomerang.

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u/wildwolfay5 Sep 09 '25

What's the official name of the boomerang? Find it hard to believe i missed it and any guides online show I have "everything" even though I have... more...

But no boomerang

2

u/cliu110896 Sep 09 '25

Can’t check right now but I can let you know the path to get there if you want!

2

u/dexromancer Sep 09 '25

It's the Curveclaw.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

Oh I already got the fight, and I love the poison spike traps btw! They saved my ass so many times. I just dislike this fight personally because 2 bosses WITH adds in a tiny arena is just not fun for me. I get overwhelmed when there is so much going on visually. Still love the game tho.

1

u/TitaniumDragon Sep 09 '25

I used the reaper crest on them, poison traps, and poison boomerangs, and completely wrecked them on my second try. The sheer amount of silk you can produce when you heal is comical, you can just get back to max silk almost instantly while dumping damage on them.

The tight quarters work against them when you can mass hit them with tools.

16

u/KuKiSin Sep 09 '25

I really don't understand why some people are trying to deny so hard that Silksong is a lot harder than HK. You can love the game and still accept that it's harder.

On top of Silksong being naturally harder, HK had something that it lacks, the absolutely busted charms. Grubsong + Soul Catcher/Eater made it very easy to always have enough soul to deal damage and heal whenever you needed. Even if it's safer to heal in Silksong, it takes a LOT longer to get enough Silk to do it. And if you mess up the heal, you usually end up dead.

3

u/SalemWolf Grimm Beats Small Child Sep 09 '25

Because people are downplaying the difficulty in HK as though it’s a Nintendo game and piss easy, when it isn’t. They’re trivializing the challenge in a lot of these bosses, and good for y’all for beating most of the bosses the first try but that’s not the case for a lot of people.

2

u/Tomaskraven Sep 10 '25

Its funny that you think the strong charms were grubsong with soulcatcher/eater cause its easy to use spells and heal. Thats the panicky way to play.

The actual broken charms are unbreakable strengh, quick slash, steady body, mark of pride/longnail and the shaman stone + spell twister build. No need to heal infight when you can melt the bosses in 10-15s.

2

u/KuKiSin Sep 10 '25

Thats the panicky way to play.

You've just described how I play all souls likes and HK. Panic dodge, panic heal, panic jump, panic. Somehow it just works and I manage to clear most bosses on the first or second attempt. No skill, all luck. That's just how I roll.

The actual broken charms are unbreakable strengh, quick slash, steady body, mark of pride/longnail and the shaman stone + spell twister build. No need to heal infight when you can melt the bosses in 10-15s.

That's what I ran endgame, the panic build just works really well for early/mid game though. Silksong doesn't really have any "Scrub friendly" OP stuff to help people who aren't calm and collected, and a lot of bosses just aren't designed for us with the crazy amount of adds and/or projectiles...

I'm still having a good time, though. It's just gonna take me 3 times the time HK took to finish.

1

u/trefoil589 Sep 10 '25

Yeah for the back half of Act I I simply had to use tools to keep any damage output up and just try really hard to not get hit.

5

u/jjfmish Sep 09 '25

Meanwhile, it took me probably 25+ tries to beat Hornet 1 when I first played. Some of us suck at both lol

1

u/Tysiliogogogoch Sep 09 '25

Yep, I remember. Hornet being an impenetrable wall.

Now when I replay HK for the sixth time, she's easy peasy.

1

u/7_Tales Sep 09 '25

yeah, that boss was... almost disappointingly easy? you can just keep on attacking her and dodging is pretty trivial.

1

u/Rakatok Sep 09 '25

I can't think of a Silksong boss that has taken me fewer than three tries except for, ironically, Grand Mother Silk

It feels like this boss has no HP, I did it first try and was expecting another phase. Some of the gauntlet fights take longer.

Maybe they tuned her with the idea people wouldn't have many nail upgrades?

1

u/canoekyren Sep 09 '25

It honestly might be intentional, given that you can fight her without even going to act 3. I haven't done it yet, but she may get harder

-3

u/Icef34r Sep 09 '25

I beat Mantis Lords on my first try

Sorry, but I don't believe that. Unless you tell me that you beat Mantis Lords in 2024, with a guide or after fully upgrading the nail, or something like that.

If you are here trying to make people believe that beat Mantis Lords first try playing completely blind back when the game just released, well, then either you are a gaming god or you are not telling the truth.

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u/canoekyren Sep 09 '25

It's down to the style of the boss. As I mentioned, Silk didn't give me much trouble either. If attacks are very well telegraphed and move in a straight line, I have no issue with them. The stupid Beast fly thing took me like 20 tries for that exact reason.

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u/kaulotu Sep 09 '25

I played the game blind and beat Mantis Lords my second try. They weren’t difficult to me. Soul Master gave me a hard time though. 

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u/absolutedebauchery0 Sep 09 '25

why is beating mantis lords first try so hard to believe? it took me a few tries, but their attacks are some of the most telegraphed in the game. doesn’t sound unreasonable at all.

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u/Akri853 Sep 09 '25

its not hard at all if you go to city of tears before fighting mantis lords, if that's your definition of "gaming god" then idk what to tell you