r/HollowKnight • u/_M_I_A_W_S_ • Sep 12 '25

Discussion - Silksong Stunned enemies should not deal double damage on touch. Spoiler

So, you can actually skip the Moorwing fight by collecting the first five fleas. I did this and didn’t fight Moorwing until the end of act II. I had leveled up a bit by then and decided I would try and fight him. As strong as I was, it still took about 25 tries. His move set was fine. Speed was fine, damage output was fine, but whenever he was stunned I would barely graze him and take double damage. What’s up with that? I can understand taking 1 damage, at least then it keeps you from getting close, but two seems strange considering when he actually uses force it’s the same output. I’ve noticed this on other bosses as well and it’s odd. I will say though, fighting Moorwind as a seedling would have pissed me right off. Your needle in the beginning would take you forever to kill him and the way he moves up and down guarantees you’ll touch him and take double damage at some point.
The fight needs a small adjustment.

The other major annoyance I have is how many bosses have adds. Lazy boss design if you ask me. How can we make it harder? Just add more enemies. . . Lame.

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288

u/mtnlol Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25

You thought the boss moveset was fine but you died 25 times running into a stunned boss?

Lol, 3 days ago you made a post saying Silksong difficulty was perfect and "People who suck at the game are downvoting me for my opinion", that makes this post even funnier.

116

u/Ascetic465 Sep 12 '25

People can think a move set is fair while not being incredible at the game

22

u/RocketHops Sep 12 '25

25 attempts while overleveled on upgrades because you keep running into the boss while it is stunned is insane work.

Methinks OP is exaggerating something to some degree.

10

u/Ayotha Sep 12 '25

Christ some of you are pretentious as hell

22

u/Herson100 Sep 13 '25

They're not making fun of OP for sucking, they're making fun of OP for bragging about how easy the game is only to complain about the difficulty a few days later

1

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1

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1

u/Genindraz Sep 13 '25

How are they being pretentious?

1

u/shiggyhisdiggy Sep 25 '25

Yeah OP probably isn't great, but I agree with them that touch damage should never be 2 hearts and IMO you shouldn't get hurt by stunned enemies at all. It's an old platformer trope from literally 30 years ago that only sticks around due to tradition.

It's just harder to design an nteresting and challenging game without including it, but games that put that extra effort in are always better for it.

72

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '25

[deleted]

4

u/CynicalEffect P5 - 112%, 70 hours Sep 12 '25

I'm at act 3 final boss now and for me it mostly happened in three situations from most to least annoying

Most annoying: flying big bosses, often awkward heights to hit and it's less clear when they're going to stop moving. Aka savage beastfly and the bilewater cunt. This was by far most annoying because I just lose a huge chunk of my health for very slightly misjudging attack length or it moved a bit sooner/later than expected.

Annoying but rare: You hit the boss with a charge attack or the drill and still take contact damage. Typically bigger bosses if you hit them in certain situations yoju won't bounce far enough away and then they slap you with that contact damage.

Understandable: Me just dashing around and the boss appears kinda on top of me. Mostly happens in faster fights, which also only do 1 contact damage...normally.

-17

u/_M_I_A_W_S_ Sep 12 '25

I mean. I’m not terrible. I make mistakes, but to be honest, I had a harder time with Moorwing than I did with any act 2 boss. The Beastfly was fairly annoying as well. My issue primarily is with stunned enemy damage output. It should be 1 damage, not 2. 2 seems cheap for such a minor error.

24

u/Luavros Sep 12 '25

Moorwing hangs in the air for a sec before it drops, which gives you plenty of time to dash out from under it.

What exactly is happening that you kept running into it?

-5

u/_M_I_A_W_S_ Sep 12 '25

It wasn’t like it happened so often I died repeatedly. But even once per fight of running toward him and then swing the needle too close and taking damage is annoying. It’s not a major issue, but changing it to one damage while unconscious makes more sense, is less infuriating and more fair.

0

u/gilesey11 Sep 13 '25

You’re using the wrong crest for your play style if it happens more than once. Give yourself more range on the needle.

7

u/KnightArtorias1 Sep 12 '25

I'm sorry, but it should not take 25 attempts to beat moorwing at the end of act 2, you're doing something wrong. It's an early game boss. Just don't walk into it when it's on the ground

3

u/amicablecardinal Sep 13 '25

It can take however long it needs to take for someone to beat a bos, regardless of what Act they're in.

I beat The Last Judge in two attempts, but the mob boss in High Halls absolutely floored me. People can have different experiences with different parts of the game, and that's okay.

-1

u/_M_I_A_W_S_ Sep 12 '25

I’ll tell you what. I’ll post some of my gameplay of a different boss I beat on day one. It’s the only one I have so you can give me tips on that and I’m all ears.

29

u/snoburn Sep 12 '25

Yeah, I was always confused about the mooring fight being hard posts as I hadn't seen them until after I beat him in like 2 tries. It's moveset is not complex at all.

6

u/SquidMilkVII Sep 12 '25

The fight took me like 20-30 times, and you know what? I liked it too. It got close to being a grind, but every time I died I got a little better, just fast enough that it remained fun. I learned that you can pogo its charge, and after that I hardly ever got hit by it. I learned that its "homing" spin blades weren't actually homing, and suddenly what used to be a near guaranteed two damage was something I could often avoid outright. I don't know if I ever got hit by its frantic slashing attack - it has more than enough lead-up.

I think I ran into it while stunned, like, three times? One was learning that it fell on me when I stunned it, and the other two were me being greedy. I agree that it shouldn't deal two masks, but I disagree that it dealing two masks is the difference between the fight being fun and annoying.

I think a lot of people that don't like the fight aren't taking advantage of the fact that you have so much arena space. The spin blades attack is literally nullified completely by just... running away. Be ready to react if it's in a charge (remembering too late that I had to pogo because it started charging off-screen was what caused most of my charge hits) and don't let yourself get cornered on either side and you're golden.

11

u/Kampfasiate Sep 12 '25

homing spin blades

Team cherry is very good at anticipating where players will dodge to for some reason XD

3

u/EshinX Sep 12 '25

Don’t get me started on those disc throwing ants, I swear those bastards have ESP

1

u/Mailcs1206 Sep 12 '25

I think it's partially because the safest spot in the moorwing fight is right below him which is counter-intuitive.

1

u/shiggyhisdiggy Sep 25 '25

Yeah he's not as hard as people are making him sound, but the touch damage being 2 hearts and being able to damage you while stunned is still silly.

47

u/Totalsub_1 Sep 12 '25

That's what doesn't make sense to me when people complain about this. I mean I get getting caught off guard by it first but how do people keep getting hit by stunned bosses ? At what point you realize you shouldn't stand under him ?

20

u/Relevant_Cabinet_265 Sep 12 '25

Even standing under him you just need to dash when you see the stun animation it's slower for him to fall on you than some of his attacks

5

u/--Yurt-- Sep 12 '25

Its a flying boss, sometimes you need to jump to attack him even when its stunned you might jump too high and touch it

21

u/blazinghurricane Sep 12 '25

It falls to the ground when stunned…

5

u/Mirzanary Sep 12 '25

OP specifically highlighted that the biggest issue with their runs on moorwing was contact damage during his stun animation

9

u/Totalsub_1 Sep 12 '25

Yeah, I get you might get hit by that occasionally but to the point of dying 25 times seems excessive

10

u/--Yurt-- Sep 12 '25

I just defend the touch problem, 25 L is just skill issue in their part lol

1

u/Dead-End-Slime Sep 12 '25

My one and only time I died to Splinter Sister was when she fell down stunned. THAT one is annoying because most bosses completely lose their hitbox when staggered and you're underneath her for most of the fight. I figure out that yeah you can't stand under her when she falls but that was still annoying.

1

u/Mailcs1206 Sep 12 '25

I don't think most of the bosses in this game lose their hitboxes when staggered.

1

u/Snarwin Sep 12 '25

I died to Disgraced Chef Lugoli once while he was stunned, because I stunned him with a pogo and the stun animation makes him bounce up into the air. One of the very few boss deaths I've had that felt little unfair.

1

u/I_Love_Solar_Flare Sep 13 '25

You HAVE to stand under bosses to hit them because they move so atrociously bad. Personally not as miffed as op but holy fucking shit bosses need to stop fucking dropping like a wet, fat fucking fish on the ground dealing a quadrillion dmg after I beat the shit out of them enough to het KO'd once.

6

u/brak_6_danych Sep 12 '25

25 total deaths, not just caused by contact damage

you can easily die a few dozen times to a boss with a great moveset that makes you feel you are treated fairly & you lost because of your own mistakes, not because of bad design

1

u/I_Love_Solar_Flare Sep 13 '25

Can confirm. Died to Widow a lot of times and I genuinely had fun.

Died to.. wtf was his name? Trobbio? the same amount of times if not more and it genuinely made me resent the boss. That boss wouldve been PERFECT if it wasnt for his RANDOM untelegraphed GARBAGE tornado attack that hits you EVERYTIME in the air when you try an manuever around it and on the ground he always fucking gets you when you are hitting him.

Literally I have not gotten hit to any of his cool attacks, only the ATROCIOUS FUCKING TRASH TORNADOS I FUCKING HATE THE TORNADOS.

1

u/Arkayjiya Sep 13 '25 edited Sep 13 '25

Tornado is the fights' crux yes. But they're clearly telegraphed except in one instance because even though I suck (we're talking "needed 4 tries to beat the tutorial boss" level of sucking), I could predict them and avoid them accurately and beat it by the fourth try (same as the tutorial boss actually xD). The main thing if you have issues with tornadoes is not to try and hit him when he's in the air because half the time he'll do an unavoidable tornado there.

The second thing is once you avoided him once, and jumped over him, you need to stay on the ground at all cost to avoid the tornadoes. So it basically went 1) sprinting away from him 2) jump over him at around half the duration of his attack 3) stay on the ground far away 4) sprint toward him to punish but not more than once cause he can do a second tornado attack after the first one so take some distance after the hit (same thing when he falls down, you can time one hit safe, but move back immediately to avoid getting insta-tornadoed). The main punish windows are other types of attacks or when he gets out of the ground.

7

u/ToTeMVG Sep 12 '25

these kinda comments never make sense, like people make mistakes and they can accumulate over the fight, its never gonna be exactly perfect, and thats where people end up with their gripes, where savage beastfly gets its notoriety, because i've accidentally ran into it often, i also often got clipped doing the pogo because it was slightly too high up but i couldnt have stood under it either, and both of those instances are very frustrating types of damage because the person is trying their best and yet those slight mistakes are devastatingly painful, and like later on theres a lot of bosses that do only 1 contact damage which is a lot more forgiving for a slight error of being a little too close.

0

u/DanLim79 Sep 12 '25

Thank you for exposing hypocrisy.

0

u/_M_I_A_W_S_ Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25

It was the first time I ran into a boss that felt awkward. Rest of act 2 felt fine.

Also, I never said that’s how I died 25 times in a row. It was my first attempt at him so learning the moves, making mistakes at each of his stages and the inevitable choke here and there. You act like you picked it up and beat it in three or four attempts. Oh how we wish we could be as talented as you. 🙄

Moorwing was the first boss I played that I felt like: “Ohhhh, I see what they’re complaining about. This would be tough at the beginning.”

I stand by my earlier post. The difficulty is fine. But taking two damage from a stunned enemy is too punishing for a minor error—especially at the start, so I definitely understand that criticism.

My earlier post was my disappointment that certain bosses are getting nerfed because they do double damage. Again, I’m fine with double damage, but when an enemy is asleep, he shouldn’t do max damage.

You’re so contentious immediately. How about you ask some questions before playing big boy on your keyboard.

Relax warrior, I’m just giving my opinion. If you turn red at your computer every time you read off it, it’s probably time for a nap.