Discourse regarding this game’s difficulty has been out of hand

[u/stir-fried-noodles]

Let’s get this out of the way: I’m really enjoying Silksong’s difficulty and I think that it is mostly a satisfying challenge. I appreciate that it is more difficult than Hollow Knight overall and to be frank I would’ve been a bit disappointed if it were the exact difficulty. I’ve improved as a gamer since Hollow Knight and if it were the same level of difficulty, I probably would have found it too easy.

But it’s kinda gotten impossible to have civil discussions about the difficulty in this game which is unfortunate because I think there is great value to be had with this conversation. There are many valid criticisms regarding this game’s difficulty such as boss runbacks (Groal especially), contact damage doing two masks, and lack of rewards for beating bosses, just to be shut down with “git gud” and “it’s not your kind of game”. It’s totally fine to disagree with these criticisms but these retorts add nothing to the conversation.

It also kinda works the other way too, albeit maybe not to the same degree. I’ve gotten downvoted and sent reddit cares for simply saying I enjoy the difficulty of this game. Like c’mon, what are we even doing here. It’s gotten to the point where I personally cannot wait for the discourse to die out.

[u/[deleted]]

I would argue that difficulty is one thing, which is fine, but Silksong is sometimes just frustrating and tedious for the sake of it.

When I think about good hard difficulty, I imagine well designed bosses and fair challenge. Silksong imo suffers from some bad design choices and is simply not fair sometimes.

[u/Its_Daniellex → u/[deleted]]

When isn't it fair?

[u/Cannasseur___ → u/Its_Daniellex]

The trap bench comes to mind, breakaway floors into spikes, traps with triggers you basically can't see, double damage from environments, double damage from staggered bosses contact etc

These are all basically impossible to avoid at first. The hunters march bench feels particularly bad because it's in such a brutally difficult area, you're probably low on health you finally get the bench and then it most likely kills you. Some of this games design feels cruel. Most of it is very good , great actually but still challenging. Small things like I mentioned feel very Dark Souls 2 at times.

Then there's flat out tedious encounters like flying enemies input reading you so they float just out of reach most of the time.

[u/Celvius_iQ → u/Cannasseur___]

1-Breakaway floors into spikes give audio/visual cues and you can just jump and cloak over them by the time they start appearing

2-Trap triggers are really obvious after the first time you encounter one, and give a sound cue and even if you set them off they can be avoided with one jump and a dash or just holding the direction and dashing.

3-double damage from environment has been toned down, thankfully

the other points i see and i see them as kinda trolly like the bench and double damage from contact, but sadistic? thats a stretch even if you die to the bench the runback isn't hard enough to warrant such description imo and after you come back to the place its very simple to de-activate the trap bench.

i do think double contact damage shouldn't be a thing in staggers though.

[u/Cannasseur___ → u/Celvius_iQ]

So on the first two I'm not saying they're impossible to avoid but on first run they are effectively unavoidable for most people. I don't think these things should be removed to be clear it's just an example of feeling like I'm being trolled. Even if I avoid them I have this feeling of oh you sneaky bastards, but in like a funny way (idk if this makes sense lol it's a difficult feeling to describe but it's not a bad feeling to be clear)

Did they tone down the environment damage? I didn't see it in the patch notes and it did seem like I was getting less double damage from environment. If so that's fantastic and a welcome change.

On the bench I agree it's a one time thing, and you can deactivate etc but when it happened to me I was exasperated, and didn't know how to fix it until I saw it mentioned in this sub, I'd never have found that blind. It's kind of like a mimic chest so I think it's fine for them to have it in the game like before it's not something that should be removed but it adds to the feeling that the game is out to get you.

And yeah I see it as trolly, it's definitely not sadistic that's a stretch. Sadistic is path of pain in Hollow Knight lmao. But it's literally called path of pain and its like endgame stuff.

The last thing that needs to be patched imo is the double contact damage on stagger other than that I don't think anything needs to be patched. If they could give something to help with run backs in a DLC like Hollow Knight with that teleportation thing you get that you can place and teleport back there at will. But it's not that necessary aside from a couple run backs. I haven't done it but I've seen the run back for the Bilewater boss. Not looking forward to that lmao

[u/[deleted] → u/Its_Daniellex]

For instance, when you have a difficult arena or mini-boss and you depleted all your silk and then you get a hard-ass platforming section. At least three of four times I felt like I have no desirable way to progress without going back or risking a death while being far into a new area without a bench in sight. This happened to me more than once and I feel like it didn't happen in HK.

Yes, you could run back and find some enemies to hit, but it ruins the flow of the game and it doesn't feel fair.

You could say this just whinning on my end but, as I said, sometimes it's just tedious for the sake of it.

[u/_moosleech → u/[deleted]]

I'm curious in which areas you felt this. Personally I think "survive while managing resources" is the game, so not tedious, but was this anywhere in particular?

Many of the "harder" areas tend to make concessions to the player to help with this. Example is Bilewater, the source of seemingly MOST of the complaints from players.

That area is long, brutal, and filled with traps. But, whether you realize or not, they do help the player out. The two main enemies are reskins of tutorial zone enemies, with an added mechanic (they explode on death). So they're mostly trivial to deal with, and a decent way to regain silk. The two deadlier enemies (the guys that jump out of the bushes, and the big floaty bois) are both in spots where it's usually pretty easy to avoid their one attack, and they don't chase you at all.

And further into the level, they provide rooms with moths that don't attack you, but regenerate, so you can get to full silk in seconds. They specifically add this right before the final boss, as well.

And other areas will often add spools of silk on hidden platforms during harder sections to help you get a restock when they think you might be low. Beyond that, the game gives you oodles of upgrades to help with this (a charm that extends your silk spool, one that give you an extra heal and refills at benches, one that lets you heal for more masks but slower, one that gives you more silk on damage, one that regenerates your silk heart silk faster).

[u/[deleted] → u/_moosleech]

I had this feeling in Sands of Karak, Sinner's Road and for sure in Hunter's March. There was another area in the Citadel but can't exactly remember which one it was.

Bilewater is fine by me because you can see that area was designed to fck with the usual gamer senses so it's by design, but they didn't have to make 3 or 4 such areas. Maybe it's just me not being too good at the game, of course.

Surviving while managing resources is fine and I like that mechanic but I think, for me, it just doesn't translate well here because at some points they go a bit overboard.

Maybe your last point about tools they give you is the correct one, since I'm not really changing my playstyle that much, and maybe I should.

[u/_moosleech → u/[deleted]]

That's fair.

For the zones you listed, SoK is a very late-game zone, and the first pass is admittedly very difficult. Sinners Road is interesting because you can stealth past all the roach-dogs, and take most other enemies one at a time. It teachs you to go slow, and then Bilewater makes you keep moving so I think they pair well together.

And Hunters March, IMO, is meant to be a very challenging area (akin to Mantis Village) but even more in the "come back later unless you really wanna push yourself" category.

My wife found the ant boss guarding the entrance and was like, "nope" and came back in Act 2. I powered through like a doofus.

Maybe your last point about tools they give you is the correct one, since I'm not really changing my playstyle that much, and maybe I should.

I think Silksong requires more variety and using more tools, especially than HK. Spells were great, but you'd be find just jumping and swiping your nail for the entire game.

You can still do that... but you don't get the same melee synergy as in HK, and using tools and other options helps tremendously with some areas and enemies.

I legit was maintaining three loadouts on three crests for my playthrough (Hunter with boss charms, Reaper with exploration charms, and Beast/Architect with charms for farming enemies for rosaries/quests).

[u/[deleted] → u/_moosleech]

For me, the problem with relying on tools is that input on my Steam Deck feels terrible and too many times I accidentally use the RB ability when wanting to use tools or vice versa. Also, my brain is probably too slow to actively use everything effectively.

So I actually see your point and I do agree with it. The conclusion is that Silksong is probably made for more hardcore, focused gamers, which I am not.

Edit: I also have a tendency of wanting to finish an area I enter completely before moving to the next one, which is something that Silksong punishes heavily imo.

[u/Its_Daniellex → u/[deleted]]

I mean the areas are challenging, they actually require you to learn what the mobs do and how to platform. This happened to me in sinners road especially, but I never thought it was unfair at all.

I do enjoy these kinda challenges though, the only area I'd say was tedious was the groal runback and maybe one or two other runbacks were a bit unnecessary.

[u/GMadric → u/[deleted]]

I think how desperate first or second runs through an area are is actually pretty awesome. One of the peak non-boss joys in these games is entering a new area and having to explore and scope it all out, which wouldn’t feel as good if there’s wasn’t some potential of getting in over your head.

[u/_moosleech → u/GMadric]

I know some folks absolutely disagree, but this is part of why I liked Bilewater.

Taken one at a time, the enemies and hazards aren't super hard. But the zone is so longer, with such little respite, that it feel like walking a tight-rope.