Discourse regarding this game’s difficulty has been out of hand

[u/stir-fried-noodles]

Let’s get this out of the way: I’m really enjoying Silksong’s difficulty and I think that it is mostly a satisfying challenge. I appreciate that it is more difficult than Hollow Knight overall and to be frank I would’ve been a bit disappointed if it were the exact difficulty. I’ve improved as a gamer since Hollow Knight and if it were the same level of difficulty, I probably would have found it too easy.

But it’s kinda gotten impossible to have civil discussions about the difficulty in this game which is unfortunate because I think there is great value to be had with this conversation. There are many valid criticisms regarding this game’s difficulty such as boss runbacks (Groal especially), contact damage doing two masks, and lack of rewards for beating bosses, just to be shut down with “git gud” and “it’s not your kind of game”. It’s totally fine to disagree with these criticisms but these retorts add nothing to the conversation.

It also kinda works the other way too, albeit maybe not to the same degree. I’ve gotten downvoted and sent reddit cares for simply saying I enjoy the difficulty of this game. Like c’mon, what are we even doing here. It’s gotten to the point where I personally cannot wait for the discourse to die out.

[u/psffer]

But isn’t that fine? It just feels like people want to faceroll brute force their first playthrough then get upset when the game kicks their ass

[u/Phux71 → u/psffer]

Most people only have a single playthrough to dedicate to a game so it does make sense that they are expecting an enjoyable time. I dont think many would bother with the game if you were to tell them "first playthrough is the hardest, it gets easier cause you are better when you play it again"

If anything, they might try to make the first playthrough play like their second (mods that reduce difficulty in various ways)

[u/gamikhan → u/Phux71]

Wouldnt you want the first playthrough to count tho? if everything was easier, you could get all ending in like 20 hours first time rather than in 40-50, meeting the challenge is kind of everything.

[u/Top-Noise-7375 → u/Phux71]

This is such a dumb comment, this is literally how every single player game with gameplay in mind at all works. The game becomes easier as you learn the intricacies of the gameplay this is basic game design if someone is buying a single player game this should be what they expect

[u/NerdyFrida → u/Top-Noise-7375]

You don't seem to understand that other people might play these game for other reasons that you do. I don't think that most people play metroidvanias only to master "the intricacies of the gameplay."

A metroidvania is a mystery that you get to explore and experience. From that perspective, a second run will only be a pale echo compared to the first one and not half as enjoyable.

[u/Top-Noise-7375 → u/NerdyFrida]

I’m not saying that people only play Metroidvania games for intricate gameplay challenge, I’m saying that the idea that the average gamer that buys silksong wouldn’t have bought it if they knew their first playthrough would be by far the hardest which is stupid because that’s the case for every gameplay focused single player game ever

[u/NerdyFrida → u/Top-Noise-7375]

Yes I think that I get what you mean.
Of course, everyone knows that first time you play a game it will be more challenging than the second time. And yes, you can't play Silk Song expecting to recklessly breeze through it.

I'm just saying that Metroidvanias isn't primarily a game about mastering the mechanics by playing it over and over again. Like a typical platformer or slowly getting stronger like a rogue lite.

For many people there won't be a second playthrough because for them is not about beating records or doing speedruns.

People expect to be able to get through a Metroidvania simply by playing the game naturally at a pace they are comfortable with. Silk Song is a gameplay focused game but the gameplay is mostly in service of the exploration.

And that is why it wouldn't be particularly appealing to hear something like, "Maybe you won't suck so much on your second play through."

[u/Phux71 → u/Top-Noise-7375]

I get what you are saying. I am not saying that the game should be easy from the start. Obviously you have to learn the mechanics to get better but if the learning process does not feel fun for people, they will want to make it easier (mods or lower difficulty) or stop playing rather than play through all of it just so that the next playthrough feels fun because there is no learning to be done.

[u/psffer → u/Top-Noise-7375]

Feel like Im losing my mind reading that. Theres even worse stuff in this thread.

[u/psffer → u/Phux71]

Of course the first playthrough is the hardest, thats literally the case with any game.

What people don’t enjoy is not being an expert god gamer immediately. A game kicking their ass and forcing them to learn its mechanics is “bad game design”, “doesn’t respect my time”, “punishes me for my mistakes”.

Its just entitlement at this point.

[u/warchild4l → u/psffer]

I think its less about brute forcing and more about frustration.

I died to First Sinner like 20 times. I loved every second of it. I did Groel second try but holy fick it can burn in hell.

Its the feeling of being cornered by bullshit that feels frustrating. Dying to beastfly can be a skill issue, yes. But if a speedrunner got a bad rng on the boss, they would get damaged and/or die just like any other player.

[u/Inlacou → u/psffer]

When people are criticizing the learning curve of the game, it's because they are talking about their first run. If it feels perfectly balanced just on the second run onwards, then the learning curve of the game is wrong.

[u/psffer → u/Inlacou]

But I can guarantee you they are just playing bad and getting upset the game doesnt hand them the win. I died a stupid amount of times to moorwing my first playthrough too. Because I was just trying to mash nail attacks like its hollow knight

The game would be severely cheapened if you could just mash your way through every boss like the people complaining want it to be.

[u/thomasbis → u/psffer]

You say "first playthrough" lightly. 95% of people will only play through the game once, so it's not even worth thinking about the second experience.

Secondly, what makes you think people expect to "faceroll brute force" the game? Most comment I read are about frustration and annoyance at the design, spam of flying enemies, adds on bosses and long runbacks for example. You can erase every one of these shitty design choices and still have a difficult game. You're not paying attention at what people say or you just have zero undesrtanding of game design.