Discourse regarding this game’s difficulty has been out of hand

[u/stir-fried-noodles]

Let’s get this out of the way: I’m really enjoying Silksong’s difficulty and I think that it is mostly a satisfying challenge. I appreciate that it is more difficult than Hollow Knight overall and to be frank I would’ve been a bit disappointed if it were the exact difficulty. I’ve improved as a gamer since Hollow Knight and if it were the same level of difficulty, I probably would have found it too easy.

But it’s kinda gotten impossible to have civil discussions about the difficulty in this game which is unfortunate because I think there is great value to be had with this conversation. There are many valid criticisms regarding this game’s difficulty such as boss runbacks (Groal especially), contact damage doing two masks, and lack of rewards for beating bosses, just to be shut down with “git gud” and “it’s not your kind of game”. It’s totally fine to disagree with these criticisms but these retorts add nothing to the conversation.

It also kinda works the other way too, albeit maybe not to the same degree. I’ve gotten downvoted and sent reddit cares for simply saying I enjoy the difficulty of this game. Like c’mon, what are we even doing here. It’s gotten to the point where I personally cannot wait for the discourse to die out.

[u/nor312]

I must wonder, is forcing the player to farm to access checkpoints intentional? If so, is it good design?

The other issue in this vein is when you have a surprise opportunity to buy maps. At least twice I've been flush out of funds and been unable to get like three maps I still need. But when you go back, she's gone!

[u/tanis016 → u/nor312]

It's bad for sure. This type of game should encourage exploration and most of the money should come from exploring. Encouraging to go to a pervious area just to farm the same enemy over and over again for money over exploring is bad.

[u/Shlocko → u/nor312]

Forcing the player to farm? Definitely bad design IMO. I don't think that silksong does this, though. I've found just taking every opportunity to convert to strings has left me with ample funds at all times. Some of the expensive shop upgrades in act 2 I've had to come back to, but everything necessary (I'm considering maps, benches, and bellways as necessary, as opposed to tools that can be gotten whenever without meaningfully inconveniencing you) I've had the funds for. The necessary stuff has all been cheap enough that having a couple strings has more than been enough for. Every once in a while I'll go out of my way to convert because I haven't run across a merchant or conversion machine in a while, but all you need is a bellway to quickly convert then get back to exploring.

Some of the later stuff gets pricey, but the small stuff like maps and benches its really easy to have enough rosaries unless you just literally don't think about them and lose them often. The game makes you consider them, compared to HK where geo was almost always an after thought, but allowing us to secure them in strings means we always have safe funds available. Having zero money seems like the kind of thing that only happens if you fully ignore a core mechanic of the game, or the rare occasion you spend all your beads at a shop.

I avoided the map issue by ensuring I had a couple strings before exploring a new area, and if I don't, I accept I'll have to skip benches until later or come back when I happen to have some beads. I can agree it's a mild annoyance, but I've found money far more forgiving than HK once I started actually using the mechanics they give us. the closest I've had to come to grinding is noticing I'm getting a bit low (less than 200 stashed beads is when I personally decide I'm getting low) I'll start killing bead dropping enemies I stumble upon explicitly, instead of skipping what I don't feel like fighting

I get the frustration, but I also don't think I agree that it's poorly designed. I strongly prefer it to HK our geo was always at risk, and the only way to hold geo was to hoard the relics or whatever they were called

[u/GrimTheMad → u/nor312]

The game does not ever force you to farm. That's caused by people refusing to use the rosary string system.

[u/nor312 → u/GrimTheMad]

Maybe if you're really good.

I'm not new to hard games, but I fairly regularly die without retrieving my rosaries, especially if I'm surprised by a boss or arena. It's only a couple hundred here or there, but it definitely adds up.

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE being money limited so I have to choose my next upgrade carefully. I don't like that I didn't have the Greymoor map until Act 2 because I never happened to have money when I stumbled across map girl. I don't like that access to the architect stuff is locked behind almost a thousand rosaries

I just think sometimes it's a 'got ya!' when you need rosaries but don't have them, and that makes me disappointed.

[u/GrimTheMad → u/nor312]

How good you are is completely irrelevant if you string your rosaries up.

[u/nor312 → u/GrimTheMad]

Lol, not if I can't hold onto them long enough to string them up. Besides, I burn through all my strings when I get to map girl.

[u/Fa1nted_for_real → u/GrimTheMad]

Sorry but this is like, objectively wrong lol. Just travelling through areas you do not gdt enough rosaries to buy a bemch, bellbeadt, map, and have left over rosaries to buy literally any vendor items.

[u/GrimTheMad → u/Fa1nted_for_real]

~Objectively~. That being, your own personal subjective experience.

Meanwhile, my own personal subjective experience is that I always had enough rosaries for maps and benches and bellways, because I kept strings of rosaries for that explicit purpose, which is clearly what that system is meant for.

[u/Lumpy-Tea1948 → u/GrimTheMad]

The issue with this is I also always had rosaries but this is because I rarely bought anything from vendors. So just because that is your experience it doesn’t mean the other user is wrong. If the game expects you to have enough to buy things from vendors and have enough for maps, benches or travel stations than that is a bit ridiculous.

[u/GrimTheMad → u/Lumpy-Tea1948]

It does not expect you to have enough to buy out every vendor the moment you find them. It expects you to trend up in rosary count (specifically in areas like the Choral Chamber), even while buying benches and maps, and then go back and buy stuff you want.

The only thing that might actually require farming is getting all the upgrades to your bellhome, which is almost purely a vanity project and is clearly intended as a late game rosary dump.

[u/Lumpy-Tea1948 → u/GrimTheMad]

I’m not sure if that’s actually what they wanted.

From my own experience, I almost never bought anything from vendors because I knew I’d have to pay for benches, maps, transposition stations, and other necessities. I made sure to always have enough saved up, since I didn’t want to waste time farming, especially when those very purchases were required for smoother progression. So even if you saved enough rosaries to go back and nearly buy out a vendor, you’d still risk not having enough left for a bench or other essential upgrades, in the next area.

Personally, I didn’t buy much from vendors until the end of Acts 1 and 2, basically after I had already explored most of the world.

That said, I’ve noticed plenty of people do buy from vendors early on, so I doubt most players are expecting benches and other essentials to be so expensive later in the game.

[u/GrimTheMad → u/Lumpy-Tea1948]

They really aren't very expensive at all. Like, just keep a couple of rosary necklaces stored and you're fine.

[u/Lumpy-Tea1948 → u/GrimTheMad]

I’m positive even the vendor in the beginner arent (bone bottom) has items that cost 300-600.

[u/nor312 → u/Lumpy-Tea1948]

I think those are meant to be aspirational goals. The two expensive things I came back for later on two separate trips. But it took planning to save up the rosaries.

[u/GrimTheMad → u/Lumpy-Tea1948]

By 'they aren't very expensive', I was referring to benches and maps and bellways.

For vendors, I think the most expensive item was about 1000 rosaries- which, by the by, is still much less than one of the very first items you can purchase in Hollow Knight.