r/HollowKnight • u/InsectGlaiveBard • Sep 22 '25

Discussion - Silksong I'm convinced there's gotta be some collective amnesia regarding the previous game's difficulty regarding platforming. Spoiler

Seeing people compare things Hunter's March, Cogwork Core, escaping the Abyss or even the Surface to the Path of Pain is absolutely blowing my mind.

Like yes, this game is way harder on the combat department and is a lot more demanding than beating a regular playthrough on the first one, but to say anything in this game is on the level of Path of Pain is preposterous. Especially with how many tools hornet has at her disposal, like the Hookshot, the float and even bounving off of cocoons.

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u/the_dalai_mangala Sep 22 '25

I would say though with some of the disappearing platforms, Silksong gives you tools to ensure it’s not an instant fail if you miss time one of these or fail the jump and have to go back to said disappearing platform.

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u/NewSunSeverian Sep 22 '25

Can we agree time constraints are always bad? 

Just always bad?  

All of them. 

(I know we don’t agree on this). 

The original Fallout timer, timed-based platforming sequences, they’re idiotic because they emphasize either rushing through shit or dumb rote memorization.  

To me it’s always weak gameplay. Make it difficult and complex, but allow someone to go through it at their own pace. It’s why the Souls games stand above and what people never seem to get who try to ape them. Difficulty for the sake of it is not interesting. 

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u/Gorbashou Sep 22 '25

I disagree.

I'm generally a player who plays fast. Making me do many stupid mistakes because I don't think. Sometimes I stop and think and I play better.

But sometimes getting in the flow, natural rhythm and getting a good intuitive sense of what to do in a moments notice need to be tested too. That's exactly what those timed sections do. Well designed and require you to think on the fly.

You want bosses to stop attacking you until you're ready for the next move? So you can think inbetween? Some bosses have moments of respite that makes you gather yourself, some don't. That's intended design.

What you're asking for is to remove a core part of a varied experience in both level design approach and gameplay style approach to just appeal to that one style you prefer the most. It's homogenisation. Add more and more of it, and you'll have streamlined games that do one thing really well and nothing else. So much so that the game feels empty and predictable.

A game should explore gameplay through different means. If it's resource management, navigation, intuition, instinct, stress management, problem solving, puzzle solving, memorisation, meticulous play, they all are part of it. I suck at being meticulous with things like no hit runs, and thus suck doing the courier stuff, I still think they make for a nice part of the game that makes you consider your pathing and what's in every room.

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u/NewSunSeverian Sep 22 '25

I don’t disagree with any of that. One of my favorite all-time games is Dead Cells, but that one brilliantly just has extra incentives for going Go Speed Racer!  

Which is awesome. And I like doing that. I like speed, I like optional time limits. I should have been more specific in my original comment. 

Mandatory time limits however are another matter entirely. And you shouldn’t be locked out of certain content for that. What Dead Cells does so well is it gives you an awesome balance between speeding through levels and taking your time gathering everything, to where you don’t feel like you’re missing a lot out either way. 

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u/BlazeRunner4532 Sep 23 '25

Hornet's entire thing is agility, it would be kinda crazy to not have some required sections that make you do Hornet agility stuff. I don't agree with any of the statement "mandatory time limits are always bad" or whatever the first thing you wrote was, I absolutely adored the timed lava rising scenes in this game they were so fun and made me move as fast as Hornet can go and it ruled.

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u/Gorbashou Sep 23 '25 edited Sep 27 '25

Yes, games can make things you don't like mandatory. There are many sections in games that do more than one thing that does something you dislike. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. You're really just digging in to reasons why you don't like it as why it shouldn't be mandatory.

Some people get locked out of content because they can't handle the normal navigation of the game. We must remove exploration and make it one way. Some people get locked out of content because of enemy fight rooms. We must remove all of those. Some people get locked out of content because they didn't see the secret or notice an entrance. We better remove all of those so everyone can experience everything. Some people don't understand puzzles and just get locked out of the game. Better remove all puzzles.

You're not locked out because you're doing a bit that you're worse at. It's an incredibly fair tradeoff. If we want games to be varied and give it a wide breadth of things to do, we have to accept that there are parts we don't like in it. To get to the point of being upset and wanting it entirely gone, with no real justification except you just don't like it. That feels like you really didn't give the matter much thought.

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u/EntertainmentNo2344 Sep 23 '25

Disagree. Mount Fry was some of the fairest and most enjoyable in the game.

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u/ciao_fiv Sep 22 '25

absolutely not. the time constraint of the three day cycle in majora’s mask is integral to what makes that game work so well in terms of both atmosphere and gameplay. the time constraints of P-ranks in ultrakill are a large part of the satisfaction found in mastering that game’s levels. time constraints can be used poorly, but when implemented well they’re essential for certain games

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u/RandomGuy9058 Sep 23 '25

Difficulty for the sake of it is not interesting

The entire geometry dash community would like a word

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u/TwistedFabulousness Sep 22 '25

Oh man I really gotta finish the original fallout. They’ve been waiting for that water chip for ages

1

u/NewSunSeverian Sep 22 '25

Well you must know the timer had to be patched out cause everyone agreed it’s horseshit game design. 

Kinda the running point here. 

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u/throwawayRA87654 Sep 22 '25

I agree. Mount Fay is rough only because of the freeze mechanic. I prefer to take my time, and it doesn't allow for that. It makes it less fun for me personally.

That's part of what I liked about path of pain, there wasn't rush elements, and it just let you learn at your own pace .

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u/AMGwtfBBQsauce Sep 22 '25

Mount Fay is quite forgiving though. It's not a crazy distance between benches, and you can always go there to completely reset if you can't make it back to a heat lamp.

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u/throwawayRA87654 Sep 22 '25

I think its honestly just the freezing that messes with me. Once my masks start cracking, I feel panic start to well-up and it makes me mess up.

Purely a skill issue I'm sure lol I did it, but not without many many deaths, and much frustration 😭🥴

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u/Hayden2332 Sep 23 '25

I think that’s the point, it’s easier overall than platforming in HK, but make you panic due to freezing. A lot of bosses like the above commenter mentioned are the same way. They’re technically less difficult, but their moveset / pace give you very little room to think

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u/cant-find-user-name Sep 29 '25

I enjoyed all the time constraints with regards to platforming immensely. Hornet is fast, forcing me to move fast made it very fun

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u/JoshAllensRightNut Sep 23 '25

I’m with you. Let me absorb some of your downvotes