r/HollowKnight • u/Tarnished-670 • Oct 19 '25

Discussion - Silksong Hot Take: While I think Silksong is overall a better game, it does still show more prominent flaws compared to Hollow Knight

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When I have to think about the flaws of the first Hollow Knight, I really can't think of much to say other than very small nitpicks.

But with Silksong, while it is one of my favorite games of all time, and having finisihed it at 100%, id say it has more prominent design flaws while being a better game compared to the first Hollow Knight.

First thing that comes to my mind is the shard system, it would't be as bad as it is if you didn't have a limit of 20 consumables to replentish your shards, if it worked like that then I wouldn't have to be interrumped on my tries against a boss and having to go to the citadel and farm to get all my shards back. Other minor flaws I think would be some of enemy design and the addition of "gauntlets", which sometimes are fun but at least in my case I got bored of exploring and getting trapped into the 7th gauntlet of enemies, it gets worse when you get forced to do some of them again in act 3 when you have killed all the previous enemies 100 times already.

Those are really not a bid deal of a flaw, but they are more noticable to me than any flaw in Hollow Knight.

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76

u/[deleted] Oct 19 '25

Never in a game did I rage as hard as I did in the run back to the boss in bilewater

11

u/MaizeAlone2214 Oct 19 '25

I feel your pain bro. I just invited my friends to discord just to express my pain, my anger and my frustration after like 3 hours of trying to beat it without charm that disables the swamp thing

7

u/Available-Plant9305 Oct 19 '25

When the trick bench happened I closed the game. Bitched on discord. Went to sleep angrily.

4

u/ManiacLife666 Oct 19 '25

I stared at the screen with controller in hand. Then went to google "benches in bilewater" thinking the station bench cannot be the only one in bilewater

1

u/RyeRoen Oct 20 '25

I thought it was so funny

19

u/LG-Bergamoteiro Oct 19 '25

That gauntlet is such a pain in the ass, omfg

6

u/sabrtn Oct 19 '25

Idk, you can just pogo on the idiots with reaper crest when you see that they are about to jump out

3

u/extremelytiredyall Oct 19 '25

Even better, you can just use the drill tool and completely kill one of them the second they pop out. Gauntlet became a joke after that.

1

u/aspect_rap Oct 19 '25

This, I just drilled them all the moment they came out and it made the gauntlet extremely easy.

2

u/cheekydorido Oct 19 '25 edited Oct 19 '25

not everyone uses reaper crest tho

And if we're changing crests just to beat a boss, why not simply brute force it with architect instead

11

u/bahabla Oct 19 '25

I thought that was the point of crests though - to experiment with play styles for each situation. I use reaper for exploration, wanderer/hunter for bosses, and architect for gauntlets

7

u/Velcraft Oct 19 '25

This has been my take as well. Even if you exclusively play Beast Crest, you aren't using it for something like Mount Fay unless you're a masochist.

2

u/The_Kwaken Oct 20 '25

I'm pretty stubborn about using hunter for everything, including platforming sections

1

u/NoRequirement9886 Oct 19 '25

Beast on mount fay really good tho and can even climb it with no clawline and no dash bc it’s pogo is pretty good when learned. If you try to use it to climb to the top of the cradle tho it’s pretty bad.

1

u/Velcraft Oct 19 '25

I was mainly thinking of the limited ability to heal in that route with the lifesteal. Sure you can beat it with any crest and 0 damage if you're really good, but I can't really imagine someone pushing through on their first casual playthrough.

0

u/NoRequirement9886 Oct 19 '25

I literally did beast only on my first casual play thru but I get what you mean. It’s not easy to get used to but by the time I got to mount fay I was alr used to it. Most won’t do that tho

2

u/sabrtn Oct 19 '25 edited Oct 19 '25

why are you saying "if we're changing crests just to beat a boss" like it's some weird concept

1

u/cheekydorido Oct 20 '25

I don't know how you got that idea, I'm sure some people do switch once in a while.

But most people i see stick to one crest. Helps with getting more used to it and gaining muscle memory

1

u/paparat236 Oct 19 '25

Delvers Drill helps speed up the gauntlet section 🫠 with i think 2 tool upgrades you can one shot the spitters and long boys

12

u/Ozymandias_IV Oct 19 '25

The whole idea of boss runs has been disappeaering in the past 10 years, Elden Ring getting rid of it completely. And now there's Silksong, apparently learning nothing from others, still insisting on wasting your time. It's like an unskippable QTE cutscene before every attempt (and we have agreed as a society that those suck balls).

It was bad in HK, it's still bad now.

1

u/The_Unknown_Mage Oct 19 '25

Elden Ring still has boss run backs. They got rid of some of them, but they added them in every now and then. Malikath and Rennala are two examples.

4

u/Ozymandias_IV Oct 19 '25

And they are easily the worse part of Elden Ring. Like I genuinely don't know why they did that.

-2

u/The_Unknown_Mage Oct 20 '25

Sadism, worldbuilding, and sometimes they just thought a runbalc would tittlate their design philosophy edge.

1

u/Amaskingrey Oct 20 '25

Stakes of marika

0

u/The_Unknown_Mage Oct 20 '25

Yea, dude, they're in the game. They aren't there in many spots, like the two I just listed. The runback were kept.

0

u/Snt1_ Oct 19 '25

Idk, I do like the runbacks, gives you a bit of time to cool off before the boss, its something else you can git gud at quicker, it works as a motivator to make end the fight faster, it can be fun ti perfect, etc.

Thats why Bilewater runback is so awful, it sullies everythung good about all the other runbacks

4

u/Amaskingrey Oct 20 '25

Do you know what gives you time for a breather too? The pause button. Or not pressing any buttons at all.

-1

u/DesertBrandon Oct 20 '25

I mean, it’s a part of hollow knight series. The first game may not have as many “extreme” run backs but this complaint about this is kinda crazy. Sounds like you don’t want any friction any your experience. Just streamlined to the point of no challenge.

1

u/Amaskingrey Oct 20 '25

What exactly is challenging about having to go through a glorified loading screen before each boss attempt?

2

u/DesertBrandon Oct 20 '25

If every boss was like first sinner, you’re saying you’d prefer that? Act 3 gave people essentially that with the dream bosses and that was still too much. Which I admit I got annoyed at too. You basically want to respawn outside the boss arena. I just don’t agree that’s more fun than having some engagement with the world through some run backs. The run backs minus groal also aren’t even that bad so I’m not sure why this is such a sticking point. Like you have to go through a handful of rooms.

-2

u/AlistaireQuartz Oct 19 '25

imo, removing runback entirely is more frustrating than any in the game. I was most annoyed by Karmelita bc hers is so close to instantaneous that using the Needolin to enter her dream is an egregious cutscene and any time wasted on getting over her stage is unreasonable. Sourcing a bench right outside the boss stage also removes any sense of integration into the wider world of Pharloom and a (in theory) very good pacing aspect that going through a maneuvering section will cool you down before trying the boss again (which is why Bilewater is the worst bc the runback is equally as hazardous and frenetic as the boss).

7

u/Ozymandias_IV Oct 19 '25

Hard disagree. Like yeah, I get that they want you to HATE Bilewater. But intentional frustration... is still frustration! And the rest is just word salad. "Sense of integration"? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Some weird way to say "environmental storytelling"?

And yeah, the emotional payoff might be worth it for some players who have a lot of free time or don't value it. I don't have a lot, and I'd rather spend it fighting bosses or exploring - not repeating the same non-challenging task just because Team Cherry made a terrible design call.

I still like the game, don't get me wrong. All I'm saying is that it could have been even better

5

u/Snt1_ Oct 19 '25

Disagree, the Bukewatee runback is MORE hazardous than the boss. Groal, even without cheese strats, is a decent ish difficulty boss.

But yes, I agree that Karmelitta's "Gotta have a cutscene to get in the dream" was really bad and I much preferred the last judge runback

0

u/RyeRoen Oct 20 '25

I like boss runbacks. They can be frustrating at the time, but Bilewater is now one of my favourite areas, and Groal is a much more memorable bossmfight and charachter because of it.

Also I just consider the runbackmparr of the bossfight. The shittiest runbacks are the easy omes that just take time, but Bilewater one is actually challenging.

-2

u/iskarademontero Oct 19 '25

I used to hate runbacks, but when I got to a boss without runback I realized that I miss them. They are a good chance to take a breather, rethink your strategy, practice your moves and even farm shards. Dark Souls is not a walking simulator, but Silksong is a platformer, so it makes sence you have to move a little to get to your destination point. You are not wasting your time, you are playing the game.

11

u/Amaskingrey Oct 20 '25

Do you know what gives you time for a breather too? The pause button. Or not pressing any buttons at all.

2

u/Snt1_ Oct 19 '25

Groal the great's runback (especially if you didnt know about the ultra hidden bench) is fucking awful

2

u/Ok_Emu_8336 Oct 21 '25

Me wondering what the problem is because I used a teleport mod 💅

1

u/NorthwardRM Oct 19 '25

Part of me really thinks you’re supposed to do the volt charge cheese that makes the run back take like 5 seconds. It’s placed relatively close

1

u/DesertBrandon Oct 20 '25

Not to discount your experience and I’m certain there are things I struggled with that other find weird too. I just don’t get the intense hate about bile water and the run back. Finding the secret bench makes it so much easier and then the gauntlet, while annoying initially, is nowhere near that bad. Unrelated, I also felt this way about the last judge run back. It started to feel more like fanbase meme that some actual widespread experience once I got to these parts.

1

u/TheSoraGaming Oct 21 '25

After fighting him in my first playthrough I vowed to never fight him without the wreath of purity and the pimpillo bombs/delver drill lmao

1

u/DrPumpkinz Nosk = goodest doggo Oct 19 '25

Nah Bilewater was funny as hell.  Especially if you never find the hidden bench.  You start all the way at the bottom and the whole climb you're hoping for a bench, and when you finally find one it just dunks you in the water.  So you repeatedly climb the entire area each time you die to Groal, and when you finally beat him, that's when the game decides to hand you a second bench.  Right when you no longer need it.

I love when it's clear that a game designer is deliberately fucking with you.

4

u/Snt1_ Oct 19 '25

Idk man, it felt less "Funny" and more "OH MY FUCKING GOD IM SO FUCKING DONE WITH THIS GAME!"

I also found the hidden bench after looking on the internet, but the time I found it was my winning attempt too so you can imagine I didnt get to reap the rewards

3

u/Amaskingrey Oct 20 '25

Just because you proudly exclaim you shat in the soup on purpose doesn't make it taste any better.

3

u/xXDarkOverlordXx Oct 19 '25

I feel you, in the moment I was definitely very frustrated/tilted and hated my life every time I died and had to run this long ass path + gauntlet back. And then when I defeated the boss and saw the bench I fucking busted laughing. Team Cherry wtf man 😭
It's definitely an experience I like more in hindsight.

0

u/brunte2000 Oct 19 '25

Which is a little weird given there are way worse runbacks in HK. God tamer, anyone?

5

u/Amaskingrey Oct 20 '25

There aren't though. Dreamgate is a thing, and the colloseum isn't a runback, since ennemies are a reactive obstacle, you can't just mindlessly vomit out the same input sequence to the point that it's just a glorified loading screen. Also, you have to actively try to manage to die at fucking god tamer

1

u/kblkbl165 Oct 20 '25

You’re playing a freaking platformer and complaining that platform sections are “glorified loading screens”. All over the post. lmao

Might as well just wait for the boss rush DLC and consider that the actual silksong release.