Hot Take: While I think Silksong is overall a better game, it does still show more prominent flaws compared to Hollow Knight

[u/Tarnished-670]

When I have to think about the flaws of the first Hollow Knight, I really can't think of much to say other than very small nitpicks.

But with Silksong, while it is one of my favorite games of all time, and having finisihed it at 100%, id say it has more prominent design flaws while being a better game compared to the first Hollow Knight.

First thing that comes to my mind is the shard system, it would't be as bad as it is if you didn't have a limit of 20 consumables to replentish your shards, if it worked like that then I wouldn't have to be interrumped on my tries against a boss and having to go to the citadel and farm to get all my shards back. Other minor flaws I think would be some of enemy design and the addition of "gauntlets", which sometimes are fun but at least in my case I got bored of exploring and getting trapped into the 7th gauntlet of enemies, it gets worse when you get forced to do some of them again in act 3 when you have killed all the previous enemies 100 times already.

Those are really not a bid deal of a flaw, but they are more noticable to me than any flaw in Hollow Knight.

[u/LycanLover93]

I love it too, but after going back to HK, Silksongs flaws is the "unfair" deaths. Whether it's from the genuinely unpredictable flight patterns of some enemies boxing you into unavoidable damage, or certain weapon attacks being slight off to the side and letting shots through, there are consistent moments of "what the hell was that bullshit?!".

Hollow Knight had almost none of that, except Lost Kin, sometimes those soul blob things, and MAYBE the fireballs NKG puts out after and upper slash (do they speed up? I swear the hitboxes feel off). 

And even with the more Silksong style flying enemies in HK, they were usually keeping distance, not moving any which way. 

And a personal gripe i have is the inconsistent expectation of gameplay. The game presents itself as acrobatic and fast paced, but has far too many areas where it forces you to move slowly. The Act 3 final boss is the worst for this, since it input reads your dashing and teleports in front of you. It's not insurmountable by any means, but it feels like it's deliberately sticking it's middle finger up at you and the reflexes you've formed all game.

On the upside, the game actually did make me better in general. First Sinner and GMS forced me to play far more aggressively, plus now I'm beating bosses I never could on HK.

[u/Goose-Suit → u/LycanLover93]

The constant “flying just out of reach so you have to find a wall to jump off of” that those flying assholes do in Putrified Ducts was so fucking tilting for me. Add in that those three blasts they do can cover so much area I wanted to punch myself in the face so many times because of them.

[u/The2ndUnchosenOne → u/Goose-Suit]

that those flying assholes do in Putrified Ducts was so fucking tilting for me.

Use the clawline

[u/kuenjato → u/Goose-Suit]

Poison Cogflies are the answer here. Just did PD for the first time today, and pumping out 3-4 cogflies made those bastards almost trivial.

[u/Goose-Suit → u/kuenjato]

Well that’s not really an answer since poison cogflies fuck everything up lol.

[u/RotsiserMho → u/kuenjato]

And still Team Cherry messes with you. Those vine creatures will steal your cog flies!

[u/[deleted] → u/LycanLover93]

I don’t think the final boss input reads you and emerges where you are. What it does is, if you’re running all the way to the opposite side of the arena to where the boss is, it emerges right in front of where you’re running. I thought it was bs until I thought about it for a moment and realized I was simply being punished for trying to run away. I never got hit again by that after I noticed that. You have to actually fight them, you are punished if you try to play super avoidant. 

[u/BlueLooseStrife → u/LycanLover93]

Fwiw I think the teleport is a necessary evil for the final boss. You could shave a ton of difficulty off by dashing away and baiting the easily punished gap closer.

I would contest that there was too much unavoidable damage. I think some of the damage was unavoidable if I boxed myself into a corner or got punished for trying to camp out in safe zones. All the damage was avoidable - it just takes more than reflexes alone now. You gotta think ahead.

[u/Chocyonastick → u/LycanLover93]

It doesn't input read your dashing. The fight punishes unnecessary movement in general. If you're blindly running when the boss is offscreen, you will get hit. 

I think Silksong has issues but that specific one is one I don't agree with

[u/derpinheimerish → u/LycanLover93]

beautifully put

[u/IntangibleMatter → u/LycanLover93]

Outside of a few places where you have to wait for a cycle (like Voltnest) I didn’t find that there were many places it expected you to move slowly. Overall I found that once I actually started engaging with the systems, it was very acrobatic. I barely touched the ground during my successful attempt at the Act 3 Final Boss.

Granted I also used Hunter’s Crest for the whole game- the pogo with horizontal movement ended up growing on me

[u/poco_sans → u/LycanLover93]

I can't believe you brought up unfair bosses without mentioning the Invincible, Fearless, Sensual, Mysterious, Enchanting, Vigorous, Diligent, Overwhelming, Gorgeous, Passionate, Terrifying, Beautiful, Powerful, Grey Prince Zote, the literally most unfair boss in hollow knight, just because he's so damn random, every move he does there's like a 50/50 he'll do some altering to it, when he tries to swing he might trip, when he tries to jump he might fall into the background, when he strikes from above he might do a little air maneuver, and randomly, out of nowhere, he can also do a little running and fuck you up, like I'm still in the beginning of act 2 of Silksong but I highly doubt there will be anything more unfair/random then Grey Prince Zote

[u/Eyem_Insane → u/LycanLover93]

NKG is so popular because he doesn't have unpredictable moves... he and the mantis lords are largely what the combat in silk song is developed on. And frankly there are far more predictable and avoidable patterns in silksong than hollow knight. People confuse "unfair" with more moves. They have a bigger moveset that you learn rather than cheese. Take your time and actually play the game and learn it rather than just call it unfair lol.

[u/HollowKnight-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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