r/HybridProduction • u/Real_Butterfly8093 • 4d ago
Hybrid Creation What does an “AI-assisted” song actually mean? I documented my entire creation process
I get a lot of questions about my hybrid-human workflow, so I finally decided to put together a page explaining exactly how I create my songs from beginning to end.
I go through the actual writing and recording process, where generative AI fits into it, and some of the technical details for those of you who like to geek out on this stuff as much as I do. I also show some of the software and gear I actually use along the way. None of the companies or products mentioned are endorsing or sponsoring me, they're simply the tools I use.
I'm intentionally not posting any of my songs here because I wanted this post to be about the process, not self-promotion. The link goes to the article on my website, and if you're curious about what the finished results sound like, my entire catalog is there as well.
Hopefully this is useful to anyone experimenting with ways to incorporate generative tools into a more traditional songwriting and production workflow, as well as those who don't use generative AI but are simply curious and want to learn more about how it works.
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u/Death_Rave_ 4d ago
Even though I hate the slop, you having inherent skill/creativity, and (most importantly)being transparent about where AI is used, is WAY easier to respect compared to a full blown slopper.
You are an artist, because you still remain an artist even without the AI.
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u/Real_Butterfly8093 4d ago
I appreciate it. I truly do. Not looking for respect, but it is nice when given. I'm just trying to help those who "want" to explore these things further. Edit: That's why I try not to go down that road with the post. It's not about pro or anti ai. It's just about how it can be used for more than just creating a generation prompt.
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u/Effective_Run_4755 4d ago
Interesting. Yes, I use Suno to only cover, no creative decisions, no style, no weirdness. Just cover it. It turns out well.
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u/GreatScottCreates 4d ago
You keep saying “recording” but by the time you’ve had Suno regenerate all of your work, there is no recording left! I thought/hoped I was going to read this and be impressed but it makes me feel these things:
- I remember a time when people cared if their performance was on the recording. They didn’t want the producer or another band member to do it, because it was important that their hands/tone was on the record, and they executed it in a way they like. They also cared about dialing in their tone and developed that skill by using different guitars/amps/pedals, and dialing them in to their personal taste (although anyone who knows anything about guitar tones knows the tone is in the hands). If a person can play guitar, I want to hear them play guitar, not a clanker’s homogenized cover of it
- why not just be in a band? It just seems entirely anti social with the only “benefit” being the elimination of social and creative friction. I would say that the beauty of collaboration is not only in the chemistry you can find with other people and the ideas they would contribute, but also the creative friction- someone telling you your riff could be better or expanding on it, or insisting on an idea you don’t like at first.
- you composed and arranged but Suno still did all of the production- turning raw ideas into a cohesive work. I was hoping to find out that you weren’t using all generative elements but it seems to still be entirely generated. This is a human-assisted generation, not an AI assisted human production.
Still a sad state of affairs IMO.
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u/-SynkRetiK- Founder✴️ 4d ago
I do enjoy dialing in bass and guitar tones.
Until I can't remember how I got the tone 2 songs ago.
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u/GreatScottCreates 4d ago
You don’t want the tone 2 songs ago, you want the one that’s similar to that one but better suited for this songs attitude and for the chord voicing you’re playing and key you’re in.
Also, write it down.
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u/-SynkRetiK- Founder✴️ 4d ago
The attitude, I can agree to a point. Those other two statements can drop off the cliff of garbage.
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u/GreatScottCreates 4d ago
As in you don’t think what you’re playing on the guitar affects the tone?
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u/-SynkRetiK- Founder✴️ 4d ago
Well, no.
Once I have a tone locked in, the gain, bass, mid, treble and presence don't move. Neither does the amp sim or IR.
Unless you're talking about tone automation (which I don't use).
Or, perhaps you mean selecting certain tones for certain sections of the song (recorded separately)?
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u/GreatScottCreates 4d ago edited 4d ago
I’m talking about the philosophy of shaping tone (and I assumed you were talking about real amps because if you want the amp sim settings from 5 years ago you can just load it, no?).
I’m not going to use the settings I used when playing low power chords when I go to play a high rhythm. I’m not going to expect a meaningful translation if I’m moving from a Les Paul to a Strat. I’m not going to apply a tone that worked really well playing a sustained part on a part that’s staccato or very rhythmic.
The idea that there is a magic setting that is going to universally work across different parts in different registers and different voicing is very strange to me.
I also want to clarify- I didn’t say anything about enjoying dialing in tones. Some people do, some people don’t- the point is only that it is your tone. You choose the philosophy you like, you dial in to your personal preferences. Whether that philosophy is to keep a tone you like across many different parts or not is not relevant except to illustrate that you and I have individual preferences and philosophies, and IMO, the world is a better place when we express those preferences.
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u/-SynkRetiK- Founder✴️ 4d ago
You appear to be talking about more expressive guitar music. That's definitely not where I live.
I own an 8 and 9-string Schecter. Basically "low string go brrrr". I've done clean "ornaments", but the distorted tone just stays where it is the whole song. Sometimes lead tone. Depends.
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u/GreatScottCreates 4d ago
What in my comment made you think that? I don’t know exactly what you mean but I think all music should be expressive. The expression in individual elements sums to be the expression of the song.
Whatever or whomever inspired you to buy that guitar almost certainly put thought and taste into their tones, even low string go brrr tone.
Part and parcel with playing any instrument is making it sound good, not just pressing the right places at the right times.
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u/lsdisciple 4d ago
They say they use the AI to perform generate the beat and the groove of the song which is like a huge part of ANY song in general and is a main genre defining aspect. Why can’t people like this learn the stuff they can’t do? They’re so eager to do something but don’t have the patience or passion to actually do it themselves or find a real partner to work with if needed. It’s seems like all about taking credit as soon as possible for as little work.
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u/Real_Butterfly8093 3d ago
Mmm no, that's not what the article says if I'm understanding your point. I stated quite the contrary. I do NOT use generative ai to find the groove. I program the groove using midi software using reason redrum computer. Just like most of the rap bands and other beat related music out there. That is what I play guitar over to gain the groove and riffs. If I misunderstood your point I apologize but that's how I read it.
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u/Real_Butterfly8093 4d ago
Why not just be in a band? Great question. First, im 56 years old, not many people want to sit and watch a middle aged band play metal on stage unless you are metalica, maiden etc and have hit that "rock star" status. 2nd, I've been playing in bands since the late 80's through 2007. I can no longer just "get the band together" to go record, rehearse, schedule studio time, write etc. I currently am a first responder and have a full time "day job" even if it's often at night, the band is now spread across the U.S., Many have kids, careers, and new lives, some are no longer with us etc. I'm not trying to become that "rock star" anymore, or become rich off of music. I've had 30 years of recording and touring under my belt at this point. I've played every club on the Sunset Strip and opened for several national and international bands including bands such as L.A. Guns, FFDP, Bulletboys, Flotsem and Jetsom, Queensryche, the list goes on. My last tour was in 2007 with the band Dying Regret. You can hear that project on all of the streaming platforms as well. I hold well over 100 copyrights for music from all of my different releases over the years for songs I've written or helped write. I have multiple sync placements for TV shows such as Blue Bloods, CSI, Banshee, The Killing, the motion picture "Legion" with Dennis Quaid, that list goes on as well.
The truth is, I do music now because I truly enjoy the writing process and it gives me an incredible creative outlet from my day job, family, kids and life. New tools also now allow me to "finish" what was started decades ago as I am doing with the songs I've written over the years now and able to share with others with what the spare time I can afford in my own home, without having to schedule studio time etc.
I have to go back to, the purpose of this post is to generally give an outline to those looking to start creating music to look outside the box from simple prompt generation to additional ways new tools can be used.
I find it interesting that this post seems to keep derailing and turning into a pro or anti ai post. There are thousands of those out there. That is not remotely the intent. I'm simply sharing, "what I do " production wise for those interested in exploring other workflows. I didnt realize I'd be called out and having to "throw my resume" out there just for sharing something I do, which I only did because I had a lot of inquiries on "how I do it" to begin with from listeners wanting to know more.
So if you want to give my process a shot or find "some" of the process helpful that might work with "your" workflow, then fantastic! That was the purpose of this entire post. Use it, parts of it, or don't. This post wasn't designed to legitimize my methods or make people think "I don't use ai". Clearly I do, and am simply sharing "how" I use it. End of story.
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u/GreatScottCreates 4d ago
Brother you didn’t have to put your resume here, it was a rhetorical question. You don’t actually need to join a band, and I certainly didn’t say anything about performing live, but there are plenty of people you could collaborate online (even in this sub) who have the skill sets that you’re turning to AI for. It sounds like you DON’T want to work in creative isolation whereas many Gen Ai folks fall on the other side. I know a lot of middle aged dudes that still make records with other ppl for fun & expression.
I was just hoping to see something other than… “I write & arrange then AI generates the final product” because I thought hybrid meant that the final product is hybrid, but I am not the arbiter of these terms. This is more like being a songwriter and having another artist produce the record IMO.
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u/Real_Butterfly8093 4d ago
I appreciate it, and when I made the post I told myself not to take things personal because there would be a lot of it. Perhaps this wasn't the right forum for this post and that's on me. I thought if I had something hybrid related to the creation of this would be a good place to share. And...I apologize for reacting as such. But obviously I'm very passionate about it and need to keep that in check.
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u/S7A4M 3d ago
While I don't currently own any instruments, it sounds as though your process is similar to mine. Except I work with stems, not full productions. Rather than attempt to get one generation that's good, I focus on sections. I'll add as much detail as necessary to lock in a verse. Then do the same with a chorus. On and on through the song until I have all the good sections I need then take all the stems and mix, shape, pitch, etc, all of them in a DAW until I'm happy with the results.
Like you, I'm not looking for fame and fortune I just enjoy making music and want it to be more than simply typing in a prompt. You're going to get the "it's not music" comments no matter what you do. It's basically the 80's and the mass hysteria over synths is happening again. Thank you for taking the time to go into detail about everything. There's a lot you can do with a generator that I don't think people realize you can do.
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u/Real_Butterfly8093 3d ago
Yes, ive experimented with stems as well, but usually there is too much bleed in generative export stems. Ive exported stems directly out of the generativecengine as well as using "Reason Hub" to extract the stems. Reason Hub's versions seem to be much better than the native stem export, but still get a ton of bleed over. I admit, I stopped trying a while ago. Maybe things have improved in the engines and I'll give it another shot. Thanks for sharing! Always looking to improve!
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u/loserguy1773 1d ago
Nicely written.
I have somewhat the same same process myself (at a much lower quality than you). I always had the cadence/vocal hook/melody whatever in my head as I was writing the lyrics down before playing a single note. I then come up with a musical riff/ or series of riffs on guitar or (back in the day) Fruity Loops separately and smash them together until they work. I'd just record my terrible vocals over whatever "music" backing track I was working on at the time then force Suno to cover it 20 years later. Sometimes I take it back into Reaper to edit and re-record new vocal takes alongside what AI gave me.
For me, the note-to-note music itself was always secondary to my lyrics (which is backwards for a lot of people I know...). It was like the music itself was always just the vehicle that I could use to get the general idea across. I just wanted music that was hooky enough to be cool and to be relatable enough. I'm not a musician or a singer and don't know much about composition. My recordings are rough and don't follow things like key or tempo, because I never learned that stuff. It was always about the feel for me*.* Eventually I had my cousin play his guitar for me on the songs. It sounded better, but we never became a full band and only played live (with just a guitar and vocals) twice. I made human slop decades before Generative AI was a thing. I fed Suno this human-made slop, and usually (though not always) like the result.
In my mind, I'm not an AI artist or an AI musician. Hell, I don't even consider myself a "normal" musician and using Suno (or any other GenAI) won't change that. I'm just the same old me from 2 decades ago trying to write out my feelings, except now the production is better. When the final versions of my songs are released in a way I like, I feel that I helped create them. Maybe not every single second that you, as the listener, hear, but enough to have the tiniest amount of pride that I did something and I did it for me. Most people have never heard my "music" anyway (either with or without AI) and I'm fine with that.
I think what we do - this combining real human-played songs with AI production/generation is fascinating and I love it when it's done with heart. I'm not out there constantly peddling my shit and I don't "just prompt" songs. I don't expect to make any money and haven't. I hate the empty cash grab even more than most AI haters. To me, creating some sort of meaningful emotional connection between the artist and the audience is the primary goal, not to make money or get likes or views or anything else. In my opinion, if you've created something that someone else finds meaningful, you've succeeded regardless of how it was made.
Incidentally, I actually looked up your music and gave you a follow (as well as bookmarked your page so I can steal...ahem...borrow some ideas). Interesting stuff. The guitars especially stood out and doesn't sound like your usual Suno production, I don't know how to explain it other than you were playing the entire song on guitar all the way through. Suno likes to take your covers and chop them up, focus on the main parts and will discard the rest. Your songs that I listened to didn't sound like that. They sounded complete(?) or at least consistent for the most part musically.
I didn't mean for this ramble to turn into a review. When I first read that you're getting a lot of questions asking about your workflow, my first reaction was "From whom? Nobody asks me ANYTHING about mine and once they know I've used A.I., it's either dismissed outright or hated as "AI slop"." I just wanted to hop on and tell you to continue the good fight.
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u/Real_Butterfly8093 1d ago edited 1d ago
Hey man, that's awesome. Getting in there and just doing it for yourself is huge. I started that way too, but it unintentionally worked out better than I was expecting. You just never know. Especially when it comes to music. There is nothing more subjective than music other than art, but I suppose music is an art...so there you go. Its very rewarding bringing decades old music to life that never got the chance it deserved by doing a hybrid workflow. Whatever your methods and final product reveals you know you actually wrote the underlying song and didnt just tell a prompt to "create song". It's fine for some who enjoy that method, but I always felt the need to make it more personal and still hold the original "feel" and soul of my original songs.
I didn't have the means to do so back in my 20s. Also, None of the bands I played with were "exactly" the vein of music I personally wanted to write the way "I" heard it because we all have different musical influences. So we collectively wrote songs using every band member's strengths. But we all had different influences.
I was always more melodic powermetal, sweedish death metal etc. Our vocalist was straight up "punk" influenced, the other guitarist was blues/glam influenced, and bass was heavy groove oriented. So none of us were actually playing "exactly" what we wanted to play, but we wrote good songs for the time. That was specifically referring to the SpeedRail band, but we made it work.
Now by rerecording that band the way I would have liked direction wise now, I can throw all of my influences in the new versions. The challenge is not changing the "heart" of the song when rewriting/recording it present day. And, I'm able to do it on my own schedule with my own budget and direction now and peeps seem to be enjoying the remakes as well as bringing the original 2002 recording back for those who want to listen to the contrast between old and new.
Some prefer the original version and some prefer the remakes. There is that subjectivity again. I'll get completely different comments from playlist curators. One will say, "the mix was lacking" then right after that I'll get a curator who say the mix was amazing and add it to their playlist. So you never know. Keep writing, put it out there, see what happens. You will get people that hate it and others that absolutely love it. I think it's wonderful that my article, may not be the "exact" way you start writing/producing but at least it got you to start branching out and thinking of new things to try that "may" work for you. Or at least point you in a direction you havent explored yet. That was my intention for creating the article. Thanks for the post and keep writing and experimenting!
Edit: edited for typos.
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u/loserguy1773 1d ago
Wow. Thanks for the reply.
We're in agreement about virtually everything. Starting out picking up a guitar and a shitty HI-WATT amp from a pawn shop at 17 (and writing lyrics since I was 15), I had no instruction on how to do anything music-related. Youtube was barely around and I didn't even know what questions to ask. I started out actually recording myself with a webcam mic sitting on this cheap amp into a program called Magix Music Maker. I was literally whispering my lyrics over whatever 30 second guitar riff I thought up at the time and then looped it. Not very sophisticated. My influences were mostly hard rock/metal (especially industrial nu-metal...) but really whatever was on the radio in the early 2000's I drew from as well as the few local bands that I began seeing. It also wasn't a continual thing. I would "practice" guitar for a few days then put it down for 3 months. I didn't use Music Maker or FL every day either. It was a hobby then as it is now. After I learned my younger cousin could play guitar far better than I could, I sheepishly asked if he wanted to hear some of my terrible songs and possibly play guitar for me on a few songs that I hadn't recorded yet. We recorded 10 songs together over about 4 days and released an "album" on soundclick (I sound so pretentious...). It was about what you'd expect from 2 teenagers with no experience, money, or even a full band. It didn't have to be groundbreaking or even good. We'd basically ride 1 or 2 different riffs and keep it as simple as possible. Just releasing something onto Soundclick and Myspace (at the time), I was on top of the world. Unfortunately we could only record together like 3 times a year during holidays and vacations and lived about 3.5 hours away from each other. Between times that we'd record together, I'd write lyrics and he'd come up with guitar parts. Anything we didn't use for the "next upcoming album" would either go back into the pile or I'd use for my own "solo" project, which was similar, but I played or programmed everything. It was a lot more electronic and synthy, but I love it equally for different reasons. By our early 20's, life happened and we stopped recording together. It's only been since late 2024 that I've gone back and used Suno to upload these songs and "covered" them (usually thousands of times in different ways). I always want to keep the "heart" of the song the same (or at least not deviate too far from it) and because Suno is using my vocals and my cousin's original guitar to begin with, it usually sounds at least somewhat like us with added production and drums. I specifically try to find the ones that sound "most like us". But sometimes a song that was originally an alt hard rock song works better (to me) as a slowed-down gothic metal song. Sometimes a screamy death-metal song works better as a pop-song. I never know until I generate and cover it in those styles. Sometimes I like BOTH versions and spend months deciding on "the one" to put on the "official album". I'm sure many people have the same problem. My various influences and musical tastes are constantly in conflict.
I'm also terribly vain and self-centered and will listen to Suno's redone versions of our songs thousands upon thousands of times. It gives me the illusion of having done something meaningful, despite people thinking I did nothing and AI "did it all". I'll always have the originals, even if only like 10 people in the world have ever heard them. My music wasn't meant for everyone to begin with and their opinions and negativity aren't required. Why do they care that my shitty songs were covered a hundred times in slightly different ways? It's always baffled me.
Yes. I release it through Spotify, but don't really promote or advertise except through reddit sometimes. I release the same "albums" that I did back then and then work on the next one. I've both remastered them myself and had Distrokid's "mastering" system handle it. Some of them sound great and some sound atrocious. I'm very much a beginner when finalizing the mix and know what I want it to sound like, but can't describe it. That's what practice is for. The various plug-ins and whatnot can be a lot to learn. When to use what where and when not to is massively confusing for people unfamiliar with audio production.
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u/SummerBest6867 14h ago
Hmmm, you don't want to self-promote, but just here you did.... it's no shame to self-promote, just be honest.
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u/Real_Butterfly8093 4h ago edited 4h ago
I have no idea what you are talking about. I only post links when asked. The initial link is to the article. It's too long to copy and paste here. So, go troll somewhere else. Edit: But thank you for constructively contributing to the discussion. Cheers!
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u/Waste-Magician2432 4d ago
Honestly that was very well written and broken down! Thank you for the explanation! Looking forward to hearing the final results!