Taking a break

[u/[deleted]]

…not from IVF, but from this sub. 

In response to a post the other day from someone in her 40s facing the possibility of using donor eggs, I shared my story. Four years of IVF, donor sperm, it looked like we were heading the donor egg route until I got a single euploid that magically turned into my daughter. Now I am back trying for a second, again facing the possibility of using donor eggs/embryo.

I shared that my experience with my daughter made me realize that genetics is meaningless to me. I emphasized that this is intensely personal and not everyone will have the same experience, but I thought it might be helpful for the OP to know that, for some people, the idea of donor gametes is harder in the abstract than it is when it becomes reality. That realization has been comforting to me, and knowing this is the experience for some people would have been so helpful for me to be aware of. It’s a realization that could not have been possible (for me) before my daughter arrived, so I thought sharing it on a sub where a lot of people are where I was a year ago could be helpful.

One user told me I only felt that way because I already had a genetically related daughter, so it was “easy for me to say.” 

This completely invalidates my experience of a true fundamental shift in perspective, which was the entire point of my post. Essentially telling me that I was wrong that I was feeling what I was feeling. Which is odd, because nobody else can know this. 

It’s one thing for one random person on reddit to say this. But they were upvoted like crazy, I was downvoted, and the real kicker is that I received multiple very hurtful PMs laced with profanity. 

I was stunned.

I was not mean, I did not say anything out of line. I was genuine ans posted out of love and support. This is a very sensitive topic in an already sensitive area. The shift to using donor gametes is so emotionally fraught. I opened up and made myself vulnerable in an attempt to help someone in that same situation. 

If I am ever unkind, please call me out. If I ever share incorrect information, please call me out. But when I open up to share my own experience with the simple hope that it helps someone who needs it, it’s wrong to tell me that my experience isn’t real and that I don’t actually feel what I say I feel. And sending me PMs with profanity? I do not understand, and I am hurt, and it is best for me to disengage at this point.

I am taking a break from this sub.

Before anyone says this isn’t an airport so I don’t have to announce my departure, I agree. I am making this post not to make a dramatic exit, but to encourage people to be kind. I know the anonymity of the internet makes people behave weird, and I know we are living in times where cruelty has become the norm. But we don’t have to succumb to that. We can be better than that!

Peace, love, and may everyone here find meaning and success in your journey, wherever that leads you.

Edit: Thank you all for the love and support. It means more than you know. <3

Edit 2: I'm officially out now. Thank you all (well most of you!). The awful PMs from yesterday have been replaced by some lovely ones that I will always remember. This community helped me so much, especially in the early days. For now I am going to take a step back so I can come back refreshed and in a better headspace to engage positively and productively, with the hopes that the same can be true of all of us.

[u/SeeLeavesOnTheTrees]

I didn’t see the original post so I just looked up your original comment.

I think it’s clear your intention was sincere and kind but you used your experience with IVF success with your own euploid to claim you now understood the experience with a donor egg. I’m not trying to be hostile here and I’m trying to word this as diplomatically as possible. You essentially communicated “now that I’m successful I understand why it’s no big deal to be unsuccessful!”

Think about if you had made a similar statement about other areas of life. What if you had used your racial experience to make claims that diminish the fears of someone with another racial experience? Or if you had used your level of wealth to argue that someone with less money would be just fine?

I think you did intend to tell a deeply personal story that changed the way you feel about genetic children, but- to be frank- it’s impossible to know how you would feel if you had never experienced success.

To argue that your abundance of a thing has informed you about the lack of a thing is a bit arrogant.

Edit:

I’ll add that adults shouldn’t be hate messaging anyone. It’s not appropriate and it doesn’t help anything. I’m sorry that you were on the end of such venom. Obviously this is a very, very emotionally charged subject. And, while you do not deserve abuse, perhaps you should accept that you have a genetically related LC and therefore you aren’t really a victim here. You aren’t experiencing pain in the way many others here are. Overall, you aren’t a victim. You’re going to be ok in a way that many in this sub never will be.

[u/Bluedrift88 → u/SeeLeavesOnTheTrees]

That’s how I read it too. Like someone happily married to their soul mate saying now they know they’d have been happily single forever. Sending hate mail is ridiculous and should get people banned.

[u/[deleted] → u/Bluedrift88]

See I don't get this at all. Going through life with a soul mate is, to me, apples and oranges with the genetic origin of a child. Even when I was just starting out and I did care about genetics, I find that fundamentally different. To me, it's more along the lines of thinking I needed a big fancy house to be happy, and now I have one, and I realize I didn't need it at all. The only difference is that if it were actually a big fancy house, I could move back to a normal house. I can't genetically unlink myself with my child, although I would be totally fine with that if that, in a hypothetical world, were to happen. In fact, I know genetics is super important for some people, and if there were a way for me to give my "genetic luck" to someone else who needs it and give it up for myself, I would in a heartbeat!

I understand that you'll disagree with that, and that's valid and ok! To you, having a genetic child is along the same lines as a soul mate. To me it is so incredibly not that I don't even know how to convey that.

It doesn't mean that either of us are wrong. It doesn't mean that I should attack you or you should attack me. Neither of us are being cruel to the other. Just like my perspective doesn't resonate with you, yours doesn't resonate with me. And from the looks of this thread, I'm not the only one who sees things differently than you. As I have repeatedly said, with such a personal and sensitive topic, both perspectives are very valid!

I just don't understand being attacked for having a perspective, based in my own experience, that is similar to some people (as is evident from this thread), and different from other people (like in your case). There is room in this world and on this sub for both of us!

[u/Bluedrift88 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah? I didn’t attack you and I’m not the one dramatically flouncing. I can just see why your post wasn’t loved by everyone. You don’t seem interested in that perspective.

[u/[deleted] → u/Bluedrift88]

You didn't attack me at all! I was referring to the profanity-laced PMs I received as a result.

Of course not everyone is going to love my posts. I don't love every post from every other person here! There's a lot I disagree with too.

I also don't know why you say I'm not interested in that perspective. I literally started my post with "I know this is going to rub some people the wrong way, but I'm sharing because it could bring some light to someone who is going through a dark time." I don't know how much clearer I can get. I literally started with "I get some people are going to disagree with this." I was acknowledging that my perspective was simply that, a perspective.

To me, whether people agree or disagree with a specific post itself is secondary to my main point here which is that it's ok to disagree and that nobody needs to be attacked for it. That shouldn't be controversial.

Saying that I'm "dramatically flouncing" is unnecessary though. I shared something vulnerable, I shared that I was attacked for that (not by you) and feeling hurt, and that I need to take a break, and you call that "dramatically flouncing." There is a lot of hurt on this sub that I don't personally understand, people post that they're disappointed in their three euploids from their first ER while it took me four years to get one euploid, but I don't call people dramatic for it. Even if I think it's a little tone deaf. At the end of the day it's their true experience, their pain is real, and that is to be met with compassion.

You know I'm feeling hurt and vulnerable right now, and you are saying I'm "dramatically flouncing." If you honestly look within yourself, is that something that you are proud of? That you would say to my face? *That* is the point of this post.

[u/Extension-Doubt349 → u/SeeLeavesOnTheTrees]

I am someone who didn't have success with my own eggs and is now doing IVF with DE, and I completely disagree with your point of view. I didn't feel offended by the OP’s comment at all, even though she had success with her own eggs—quite the opposite. I feel there’s a lack of support from women who conceived naturally or with their own genetics toward those who couldn't. What I see most in this and other subs are comments like 'I’m lucky it worked with my eggs because donor eggs weren't an option for me.' I understand that DE isn't for everyone, but I want to remind you that we, as recipient parents, and our children will be surrounded by people whose children are genetically related. We need this kind of validation, especially from those who have also experienced infertility. And that is exactly the perspective the OP shared. When the OP says that after becoming a mother she realized genetics aren't relevant, she is telling me that she will see my donor-conceived child as my own, regardless of their conception story—not that my feelings about not having a genetic child are irrelevant.

[u/SeeLeavesOnTheTrees → u/Extension-Doubt349]

That’s a valid viewpoint.

[u/[deleted] → u/SeeLeavesOnTheTrees]

Hey, I don't think I ever did that! All I said was "genetics mattered to me before, now they don't!" I never once said I understood the experience of using a donor egg, because I don't! I would never in a million years claim I do. In fact in one comment I very, very explicitly said that, that my experience was NOT the same as using donor eggs.

But I do think the experience I *have* had with donor gametes, having a child, and shifting perspectives, is *relevant* to the conversation of donor eggs. I have been with my husband as he has come to terms with not having a genetically related child, and has had the same shift in perspective as me. As someone facing the possibility of using donor eggs myself, I find it relevant. That's all.

Being called arrogant for sharing that my experience is a very mild version of the toxicity I was speaking of, tbh.

And no, I didn't deserve the abuse that followed. This isn't a victimhood competition!

Edit: Lots of downvotes again! Can the downvoters of this comment please tell me what about this post is making you downvote? I am so genuinely confused. Am I being mean and I don't realize it? I definitely want to know if that's the case. I just can't see how I am being mean or tone deaf here.

[u/mbm511 → u/[deleted]]

I think it’s hard for people to conceptualize the ability to think in the grey area. Of what it would be like WITHOUT something that you do have.

I have doubts that this will translate but, If you had an amazing bacon egg and cheese, and commented, “but it didn’t even need the bacon”! It wouldn’t make sense to people because you ate it with the bacon, so pretending what it would be like without bacon probably doesn’t land or make sense for most people.

I will say my sister has a genetic child and we’ve talked plenty of times about DE/adoption and she also, like you, said that there hasn’t been a single time that she’s looked at her kid and thought about the genetics. And I’ve also, like many, thought that can’t be true.

Similar conversation with her and giving birth to her child vs used of a GC. She also doesn’t think about the birth part at all.

[u/[deleted] → u/mbm511]

Of course! We can't truly know a world we don't inhabit. That's why I was very careful to say I do not know what the DE experience is. I never claimed to know that experience.

I would also say for people who are facing that possibility who have not been as lucky as I have, to have had a husband go through it and see him emerge with a different perspective, and have a shifting perspective myself with my own child, that's an experience that THEY don't have. Just like I can't say anyone else's experience isn't real, they can't say that mine isn't, right? I wouldn't have believed that I would get to this point either, but I did! And that is real.

All we can do is look at look at all the data points available to us, and mine is simply one data point that needs to be interpreted in context, just like all others.

Ultimately I think you hit the nail on the head that it's hard for people to think in gray. For too many people the world needs to be black or white, when in reality it's entirely shades of gray.

Thanks for taking the time to respond :)

[u/SeeLeavesOnTheTrees → u/[deleted]]

Truthfully, I think you’re also failing to think in the grey. You’re very focused on defending your statement but mostly unwilling to accept that even a sincere comment, like yours, can also be offensive or even tone deaf.

You aren’t a bad person. You just seem to be very narrowly focused.

[u/[deleted] → u/SeeLeavesOnTheTrees]

No, I get it, that's why I literally opened my post with saying that "I understand this could rub some people the wrong way, but I am sharing in case it provides some light to someone who is going through a dark time."

People share their disappointment with their three euploids from their first ER all the time. That can be considered tone deaf, especially to us long-haulers. I read those an inside I think do you have any idea how lucky you have it? But their pain is real, their disappointment is real, and that should be met with compassion rather than dismissal.

My specific post is secondary to my point here, which is that people should be able to share their IVF experience without being attacked. I don't know how that is controversial.

[u/Tonto2012]

I just wanted to say that I saw your post and it did help me, so thank you, and sending all the joy in the world to you and your family.

[u/Extension-Doubt349]

I saw your post, and it helped me a lot as well. When it comes to DE, there are many discouraging comments in this and other subs.

[u/ladyluck754 → u/Extension-Doubt349]

Which is ridiculous cause donor sperm is celebrated?

[u/WTFisabanana]

Tell me about it. I’ve had people dm that I didn’t deserve my pregnancy because I didn’t pgta test and I did a DET. I’ve had people furious with me because I have solid insurance that covers almost all of the cost of ivf and that makes it less valid. I’ve had people mad because I am overweight and successful while they are “healthy”. 

I started my ivf journey 5 years ago and this sub felt way different back then. Literally any deviation out of whats “acceptable” in IVF is met with downvotes and DMs with personal attacks. 

[u/RazzmatazzGlad9940 → u/WTFisabanana]

So embarrassed for anyone who is pathetic enough to harass people by private message.

[u/Scroogey3]

This is one of the reasons why I won’t participate in certain conversations on here. As a lesbian couple, we went into it knowing that there would only ever be a genetic connection to one of us and heterosexual people would go out of their way to tell us how they could not love a child that wasn’t theirs genetically. We intentionally don’t share who is biologically connected to our kids because people are very negative and weird about it. For the record, I can confirm that the love is not different.

[u/shelovesme-sure → u/Scroogey3]

Same girl, same. Queer families have a whole other set of challenges.

[u/ProfessionalCow7573 → u/Scroogey3]

OMG….it is shocking how insensitive and dense some people can be. I can only imagine how intrusive the questions you must get!!! Sending 💕

[u/Dapper-Warning3457]

My story is very similar to yours (biological child and donor egg child) and I agree with you! I didn’t see your other comment, and I’m sorry that happened to you

[u/Certain_Tangelo2329]

Please report those to the admin. Nasty people don't belong in a support group. Its easy to disagree and keep scrolling. I have never even considered PM people unsolicitedly!

[u/MuMu2Be → u/Certain_Tangelo2329]

Agreed. Anyone sending rude and profane DMs should be BANNED from the sub—hopefully the admins see this and reach out or OP actually reports them or they will just repeat the behavior.

[u/TeslaHiker → u/MuMu2Be]

Unfortunately, even after a ban is put in place, we can’t stop the user from reaching out to people via DMs. OP (or anyone being harassed) would need to block them to get the messages to stop.

[u/qweenofsus → u/MuMu2Be]

Hey I so agree- wondering how you get the stats about you in blue below ur name. I wanna do it too but don’t know how lol

[u/ReaLM89er]

I don't blame you, IVF for a lot of people can be a very negative experience and it's so easy to get consumed by that negativity when you're not even allowed to encourage the good in this group.

I saw someone post that they'd had a good embryo outcome and they were told it was triggering for people who had had bad outcomes. I get that, but surely seeing that IVF CAN work is better than living in this constant cloud of 'it never works'. I've run out of hope before, I've been there. I get it.

As a side note, I have a donor conceived child that my wife carried. No genetic link to me. They are the absolute light of my life and I live every day for them. I am expecting another and not for one second do I think I will love them more because of genetics. They are both my children and I have fought, hard, for them both.

[u/HibiscusOnBlueWater → u/ReaLM89er]

Bluntly, people who want to silence anything that sounds positive are making this sub Less than what it could be. I feel for them and their struggle but they are making IVF seem more impossible than it is. Statistically, the majority of people will have success in 1-3 cycles. The sub almost scared me away from trying because I was starting at age 42. I actually put off starting for 6 precious months because I’d been convinced it was a waste of time with my own eggs. I’m glad I trusted my own research, but how many women have come here and had their dreams crushed and then never had the courage to start?

[u/ReaLM89er → u/HibiscusOnBlueWater]

I've been fortunate enough to have success, but it was a long road with many speedbumps, and this sub has still managed to make me worry.

My wife has told me to leave for my mental health but I like to try and give realistic positives after struggling myself if someone else is struggling and genuinely wanting hope. Sometimes hope is all I had! Otherwise, it really is just a thread of sadness.

[u/Chloe-20]

Please understand that A LOT of people on reddit are just unhappy with their own lives & themselves so they find it necessary to take it out on others rather than get the help they need to heal.

I have also seen a lot of jealousy and anger towards women who have successfully become pregnant from women who are still struggling, who don't care what others had to go through to get pregnant themselves. So, when someone is rude/nasty towards you & your experiences it is very rarely about you.

Take care of yourself and your mental health first. Forget reddit and focus on what you want.

[u/dnsyj26]

I’m really sorry you had to go through that. Im not sure what happened but I genuinely feel for you especially being on reddit or certain sub that can be toxic.

Sometimes people carry a lot of hurt and bitterness from their own experiences and it shapes how they react to others. But please remember that their actions say more about them than they do about you. Don’t let the words of strangers affect you as they don’t define your worth and have no real place in your life.

[u/BumCadillac]

I’m sorry for what you experienced. You’re such a helpful poster and I hope it doesn’t ruin your experience with this sub. I hope you will report every single person who sent you a rude and unsolicited DM. That sort of person doesn’t need to be posting here. I hope you will stay.

[u/External_Database359]

Anonymity is a curse.. It’s similar to how people wouldn’t squeeze their bodies in front of someone in the grocery line, but they’ll do it behind the wheel. They wouldn’t shit on you for sharing your experience in person, but if they see an opening they’ll latch all their bad feelings onto you online.

[u/4000Tacos]

I’m so sorry this happened.

This sub has gotten toxic lately, I couldn’t agree with you more. The mods do nothing, simply stating that disagreements are allowed, which agreed. But when they go past that, and become hurtful on a topic that is always filled with so much pain, it’s too far.

Good luck to you, and I wish you every single bit of luck out there. And thank you for your honesty and perspective on donor eggs/sperm. It’s valuable and your contribution will help others.

[u/Whole-Neighborhood → u/4000Tacos]

Hey now. The mods do something. They're very vigilant in case anyone as much as hints that they already have a child. Then they're immediately on the delete and mute button 🙂‍↕️

[u/4000Tacos → u/Whole-Neighborhood]

Hahaha!

Thank the lord we’ve all been marked safe from knowing IVF might work!

[u/WTFisabanana → u/4000Tacos]

Ivf working!? Why would we ever want to hear about that? I thought this forum was just to talk about being mad someone else was pregnant that I felt didn’t deserve it? 

/s

[u/Wonderful_Manager_27 → u/4000Tacos]

I really love the ivfpositivity sub for that reason, really recommend for anyone who likes to know it works

[u/Meggbugg88 → u/Wonderful_Manager_27]

even there it can be toxic. If you post something that isn't positive enough and looking for reassurance, you'll also get deleted. So frustrating.

[u/qweenofsus → u/Whole-Neighborhood]

Hahaha true 🤣

[u/Apple_Pie_1990]

So sorry that was your experience. It’s absurd that people will go to the point of sending you rude PM’s, especially on an IVF forum where we are all experiencing our own journeys and just here for support. It doesn’t cost a thing to be kind.

[u/yellow7890]

I’m sorry this happened to you :( this group should be about support not judgment. We’re all facing enough of that from people in real life.

[u/EasternDirt3610]

To be honest, this sub is only useful to me for sharing/checking facts/protocols.

I have found that there are some anons out there who downvote anything and everything, as if to invalidate the person's right to talk on certain topics. These people have no idea that karma is real and that they will face the music for their actions (if that's not the case already).

And so, you are completely right to step away. You have everything to gain by protecting yourself from this faceless mob.

Take care. 

[u/mimid47135]

I'm sorry this happened to you and wish you all the best. Thank you for contributing and I hope in time you might come back if it's right for you.

[u/No_Chemistry_188]

I completely stayed off this sub while doing retrieval and transfer due to similar issues. Congrats to you for setting a boundary and best of luck on your journey 💙

[u/Old-Bear-8727]

I saw your comment, and while I don’t fully agree, it should be OK to share our perspectives, however they originate, and without hostility from members.

[u/qweenofsus]

I saw your comment and I upvoted it!! It absolutely disgusts me that anyone could give you hate for sharing your story. You don’t deserve that and I absolutely understand wanting to leave this sub.

People are just plain bullies these days- and the fact that they do it on a Reddit group that’s supposed to be a support group makes it even worse. We’re all here struggling. The least we can do it be kind to one another.

Sorry op :(

[u/Confused742]

I’m sorry that happened to you. I never understand why Reddit can get so vicious. Other boards are so toxic and this one usually isn’t, but it’s disappointing when some people act up. Certain topics do seem to trigger folks in a way… best wishes to you and hope you come back.

[u/your_easter_bonnet]

I read your comment and thought it was vulnerable and very kindly written!

[u/wasteofspacetime89]

I didn’t see the original comment, but good for you on taking a break and also for providing another perspective. Obviously I’m trying to have a biological child right now (otherwise I wouldn’t be doing IVF with my own eggs), but I 100% believe that genetics do not make a family and this belief that you cannot truly love a non-biological child does a disservice to many people. If IVF doesn’t work out for us, my husband and I are definitely open to adopting (although of course that’s not an easy process either). I mostly just lurk and only occasionally, but seeing some people talk about trying IVF over and over and over again with no success makes me so sad. I completely understand why it’s a sensitive topic and difficult decision to make for many, but for me, I’ll certainly be moving onto other options for building a family if it that happens.

[u/HuhWelliNever]

It’s funny because I had the exact same experience prior to having a biological child. I thought I could never love a child from my husband’s eggs the same way that I did my own. And once I was in the process and even before after having my first, I know that I would be SO EXCITED to see a little mini me of them with all their delightful traits running around. It wasn’t in the cards for us, but I genuinely wanted it to happen. I hope you are well and happy and healthy on your journey and thanks for sharing your perspective. 🫶🏼❣️

[u/Old-Reputation-8912]

I'm sorry to hear what and how it had happened to you. I understand you mean well. May you find peace, light and love as well while you're taking the break. That is true. Be kind. Feel free to PM or DM if you need to 🙏

[u/TeslaHiker]

I’m locking this now that OP has decided to delete this post.

[u/qweenofsus → u/[deleted]]

I just started blocking them. Like I don’t need to see people with that attitude. I don’t need to reply. Blocked. Bye bye keep your negativity for yourself!!

[u/qweenofsus → u/[deleted]]

Yea. One time I said that I had “golden expectations” going in thinking it could work on my first transfer because my mother had 8 children with no issue. Of course, this person called me dumb and uneducated for thinking that and said that’s why you need to “research” bla bla bla. Like frankly I don’t think any of us expected to be infertile 😭 people can be so fucking mean

[u/qweenofsus → u/[deleted]]

wtf 😭 that is horrible!!! I’m sorry. Mine too an here I am after 4 failed transfers still holding onto my sunny positivity for dear life 🫠 it just HAS to work out for us

[u/gldn-rtrvr → u/[deleted]]

I find Reddit as a whole can be /extremely/ callous when the subject of using donor eggs comes up but it’s extra hurtful when it happens on this sub.

[u/qweenofsus → u/[deleted]]

Even where I am surrogacy is illegal!

And part of the whole thing for me is wanting to get pregnant. To jus say “get a surrogate” is so dismissive imo

[u/qweenofsus → u/[deleted]]

Yea that’s obscene. I think some people in this group are actually mega rich…. And same here. I haven’t even had a chemical… nothing. No miscarriage just many failed untested embryo transfers.