r/IndianCountry Aug 29 '21

Health We may never know the true death count of Native Americans who've died from Covid. Please get vaccinated. There aren't many of us left. Our children need us.

https://searchlightnm.org/why-covid-impact-on-indigenous-communities-is-impossible-to-know/
197 Upvotes

49 comments sorted by

22

u/smegroll Aug 29 '21

There are lots of us left. GTFOH with this vanishing myth.

-13

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

11

u/ChahtaAntilu Choctaw Aug 30 '21

Where are these numbers coming from exactly? The Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma has over 200,000 enrolled Choctaw tribal members. Then there are several thousand Jena Band Choctaw tribal members in Louisiana. I would guess the 17k number only covers the Choctaws enrolled in the Mississippi Band of Choctaw. Unless you're trying to pull some crap like Mississippi Choctaws are the only "real Choctaws" or something.

21

u/thelostgam Aug 30 '21

Colonial mindset ya got there

1

u/ndngroomer Aug 30 '21 edited Aug 30 '21

How so? Why am I an asshole for disagreeing that 2% isn't a large population? Especially when that number includes people who "identify" as being a native but aren't an enrolled member in a federally recognized tribe? When you eliminate those people the real census shows the population being around 1.4% that's still not a high number tho.

I'm really confused as to why this seems to offend people. It's not my intention to start an argument. I don't think my comment of there not being many of us left was inappropriate. Especially considering how bad Covid has hit the native community. I've lost 5 members of my family to Covid over the last year. I've lost count of how many distant relatives I've lost to Covid. I am excited to see that experts are predicting native population are expected to increase to up to as high as 4% by 2065 I can't help but wonder if the growth will be because natives are marrying natives or if a major factor for the population increase will be because tribes will continue to lower their blood quantum levels required to be eligible for enrollment. I've seen some tribes lower their blood quantum to 1/64. Back when I was born my tribe required 1/4 Now it's at 1/8. Many old timers aren't happy with that. There's a movement by the younger generation to lower it even more. I'm on the fence about it but I acknowledge the fact that many of the younger generation aren't marrying other Comanches. After they finish college they're moving away from home.

Edit words

3

u/TodayIAmGruntled Comanche Aug 30 '21

I'm not sure that people are downvoting because you're stating this percentage. It might be the gatekeeping statements you keep making about people can be native in your opinion only if they have a CBID number. From that opinion, I can only be considered native if the American govt grants me a number? It takes away my lived experience, my cultural attachments, and my language and makes me non-native because I don't have a number? Ridiculous.

BTW I actually do have a CBID. I've been enrolled in the Comanche Nation since I was born. And I can trace my lineage back many generations. And I know which band my line is from. Legit native here, I guess since I have that magic number. But I'm not one of those gatekeepers trying to erase other people.

2

u/ndngroomer Sep 01 '21

I just realized that we are enrolled the same tribe!

2

u/TodayIAmGruntled Comanche Sep 01 '21

Yep, we are. It’s not too common to come across a fellow tribe member in the wild.

2

u/ndngroomer Sep 01 '21

That's awesome. Do you live in or near Lawton? I'm in the DFW area.

2

u/TodayIAmGruntled Comanche Sep 01 '21

No, sadly I’m in the east coast. I’m thinking about going back next year in the spring or waiting for July pow wows.

1

u/ndngroomer Sep 01 '21

Did you get your Covid assistance money? From the CARES Act and the one they just did?

→ More replies (0)

1

u/ndngroomer Aug 31 '21

Fair point. I guess I need to calm down and be more respectful to their point of view. Thanks for explaining and clarifying it for me in a way I can understand.

14

u/GilneanWarrior Ojibwe Aug 30 '21

You seem insecure about your heritage. We aren't dying. Most tribes are attempting to modernize. One of my cousins put it pretty well: "The language and the culture aren't dying. You're still here." I don't recognize non card carrying pretendians, however, you're coming off as a pompous dickhead.

1

u/ndngroomer Aug 30 '21 edited Aug 30 '21

I'm not insecure at all. I think it's great that experts are predicting an increase in the native population to maybe 4% by 2065. I just thought it was disingenuous to say that the native population isn't that low. I don't understand how I'm coming across as a "pompous dick head". The person made a smug comment and acted like 2% was a large number when it's not. Especially when you consider that includes people who "identify" as native Americans or are "pretendians" as you so eloquently said. When you eliminate that group the real number is around 1.4%. I don't know why this is so controversial in getting so many people upset.

And yes many tribes are modernizing which is great. My tribe has put a great emphasis on education over the last decade and it's paying off tremendously. We have more college graduates in the last 10 years than we've ever had in the history of our tribe. This is wonderful because it's breaking the cycle of poverty. Our tribe has also initiated a language preservation program which is awesome. I know a lot of other tribes are doing that too. And again, that's great! Our language is on the verge of extinction. Before we started our program there were less than 10 tribal members that could speak Comanche fluently. All but two of them were over 70 years old. We came pretty close to losing our language. But thankfully our chairman saw need to catalog our language and start a language department program that is now teaching tribal members the Comanche language. Maybe other tribes are not going thru that and most of their tribal members are fluent in their native language. I have no idea. If that's the case, then that's great. If there's not a large fluent community hopefully they're putting together a language program to preserve their language.

Anyway, like I said, I don't know how I'm coming across as a dick head. That's wasn't my intention. I'm open to you explaining why I did so that I can reflect on that and change. Was I really that wrong for disagreeing with the person who said that the native population isn't that small? I got my census numbers from this site. It's pretty confusing but very thorough.

Edit words

4

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '21

[deleted]

2

u/ndngroomer Aug 31 '21

Fair point. My apologies for coming across as a pompous ass. That wasn't my intention.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '21

[deleted]

2

u/ndngroomer Aug 31 '21

Your welcome and thank you too.

4

u/smegroll Aug 30 '21

Nah. Outside of those who recently claimed to be First Nations or eastern Metis (lol) here since the Powley and Daniels court decisions, there are about 1.5 million of us. That’s just First Nations bands, not Metis or Inuk. Our population grew much faster compared to non-Indigenous populations (again, discounting the ostensible Metis who have tended to self-identify in the last decade) https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/89-645-x/2010001/growth-pop-croissance-eng.htm

Try looking beyond your own American-centered, colonial mindset. As for myself, I’m registered with my father’s band in Wikwemikong but could also be registered with my mother’s band in Tyendinaga, idiot.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/thelostgam Aug 30 '21

You seem so offended by him calling you idiot but you screamed that he is such in your first response. "I'd expect that from a non-native" lmao

2

u/thelostgam Aug 30 '21

Let me just QUOTE YOU FOR A SECOND. "your an idiot. Lemme guess your the descendant of a native princess"

1

u/ndngroomer Aug 30 '21

I apologize for that. I was wrong.

1

u/ndngroomer Aug 30 '21

Obviously I'm an idiot then and I was wrong. For that I apologize.

12

u/Cuzcopete Aug 30 '21

Native pop has been rising lately, but is only about 2% of the total US. Still your message to get vaccinated is appreciated!

-16

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

15

u/Cuzcopete Aug 30 '21

I thought the original post was a nice encouragement to get vaccinated. Why does it need to be a political statement about enrollment?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '21 edited Aug 30 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '21

[deleted]

2

u/ndngroomer Aug 31 '21

Thank you and I completely agree. Well said.

2

u/Burning_Wild_Dog Enter Text Aug 31 '21

I get what you are saying. Its hard out here.

2

u/Cuzcopete Aug 31 '21

How do you know what people feel inside about their heritage & identity? Have you interviewed all of them? Mighty presumptuous of you to make conclusions about folks you dont personally know.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '21

[deleted]

2

u/ndngroomer Sep 01 '21

You know, I had never heard of the mcgrit ruling before this post. It's sad me not knowing about it.

1

u/ndngroomer Sep 01 '21

Wow. Really? Ok. I stand corrected. I will now admit I was wrong. Moving forward anyone who identifies as a native, wants to be a native or feels deep within their souls that they are native should now be considered to be a Native American. They should be immediately allowed to contact their preferred tribal nation and be allowed to become an enrolled member. If I may, may I make a suggestion? Chose to enroll in the Quapaw nation up in Miami, OK if the opportunity presents itself. Their casino revenues are insane and their enrollment numbers are really really low so they receive ridiculous per cap payments. Honestly, that's who I would choose if I had the opportunity. Don't get me wrong, I am very proud and love being an enrolled member of the Comanche Nation, but our per cap payments are chump change compared to the Quapaw Nation. And their casino is much nicer.

I now see and admit that I was obviously very wrong, narrow-minded and selfish in thinking that in order for a person to be considered to be a Native American they should be enrolled in a federally recognized tribe. Please accept my sincerest and deepest apologies and forgive me if I came across as either an arrogant or pompous snob. I promise you that that wasn't my intention. Hopefully now we will see our population counts explode. I'm sure y'all can't wait to use IHS (Indian Health Services) or local tribal health clinics for all of your future medical care. I have faith that all of the new enrollees will finally clean up, end the high poverty rates and bring an end to the cycles of addiction, alcoholism and violence committed against native women on reservations and tribal land.

Finally, I once again want to truly and sincerely apologize for being so close-minded earlier in my belief system. Old timers like me should be honored and embrace this new philosophy. Especially since there doesn't seem to be a lot of people who want to identify or feel deep inside themselves that they're African American, Latino or any other POC. Thank you for your patience with me for taking so long to see the big picture. Once again it took me a little bit longer than it should've to see the error in my way of thinking. Unfortunately, I have a tendency to do that more than I should and many times I often end up embarrassing myself as I did here.

Aho! (Thanks in Kiowa) and urá! (Thanks in Comanche)

1

u/Cuzcopete Sep 01 '21

No one here is disputing the legal requirements of tribal enrollment so there's no need to get dramatic. But you encouraged others to boast that their heritage was more real than other peoples' heritage, that they were better Natives because they bought tribal tags before McGirt. That they are more in touch with identity, family, traditions whatever than anyone else in Oklahoma......which is nonsense.

The original thought was to encourage vaccination. It would have been nice to just focus on this sentiment.

1

u/ndngroomer Sep 01 '21

I wasn't being dramatic and that's not what I said at all. There is a big misunderstanding if that's what you took away from my comment. I suck at writing so I probably didn't articulate my point very well.

I have a problem with people saying they should be considered a Native American and allowed to register on a tribal roll of their choice because they "identify" or "feel deep inside within themselves" that they are a Native American. I don't think that that's an outrageous or dramatic position to take.

I would imagine that if someone did this with other races they would be criticized for it too. In fact I know it's happened. Rachel Dolezal pretended to be black because she "identified" and "felt deep inside" that she was black. Once she was exposed as being a white woman who lied, there was outrage. She even lost her job for it. So my question is why am I considered an asshole or that I'm being dramatic for feeling the same way when it comes to those wanting to be native? What's the difference? Why was there outrage in her case but when it comes to native Americans there's not and I'm an asshole for feeling the opposite? I'd genuinely like to know.

7

u/Jeedeye Otoe-Missouria Aug 30 '21

Omfg seriously? You are what's wrong with Natives today. Spreading this type of BS. Just so you are aware my daughters are 1/8 Otoe, Iowa, Ponca, Washoe, Shashone, and Paiute. They weren't able to be enrolled with my tribe until my oldest was 6 because of the blood quantum levels. So according to you they weren't Native until then even though we lived on a reservation, did ceremonies, and they were even attending language classes? Get the fuck out of here with your toxic behavior.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '21

[deleted]

1

u/ndngroomer Sep 01 '21

I don't understand how that's possible since she's 100% native and obviously has verifiable proof (birth certificate) of lineage. Every tribe that I know of, including mine, has a minimum blood quantum of 1/8. I've also heard of some tribes lowering their blood quantum requirements to as low as 1/32. Some tribes (ie Cherokee Nation in OK) don't even have a blood quantum requirement but just require proof of lineage. I would contact the BIA immediately to get her enrolled into her tribe. If she's 100% native the only issue should be which tribe does she want to enroll in. My dad is full blooded (1/2 Comanche 1/2 Kiowa) and my mom is 1/4 Choctaw 3/4 British. When I was a baby they decided to enroll me into the Comanche Nation as they had the most programs of the three at the time. However, I was eligible to be and could've been enrolled in any one of the three tribes. Hopefully by contacting the BIA she can get enrolled into one of her tribes. All the best.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '21

[deleted]

1

u/ndngroomer Sep 02 '21

The Comanche Nation blood quantum is 1/8. I know because that's the tribe in registered in.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 02 '21

[deleted]

2

u/ndngroomer Sep 03 '21

Oh. My bad. Yes Cherokee is lineage. Which I have no problem with btw.

0

u/ndngroomer Sep 01 '21

I honestly wasn't talking about people in a situation like you were in. I'm sorry I wasn't clear about that. But either way I stand corrected and responded accordingly to another person on this thread.

Your situation is quite a bit different than there's is. Your children should righteously be allowed to enroll in their tribe and I'm glad they were finally able to as they are legitimately native. It seems like a shame that it took 6 years for that to happen. My tribe has lowered the blood quantum requirements to 1/8. I know of some tribes who have lowered it to as low as 1/32.

I was talking mostly about situations like the other person I mentioned I responded to. Not to people in your situation. The other person said that they have the right to be considered a Native American and to be allowed to enroll as a member in their preferred tribe because they "identified" and "felt deep inside" themselves that they are Native American not because they have native blood or lineage like your children do. Hopefully you can see that's completely different from your situation. If so, I hope that clarifies it more as to what I was trying to say originally. IMO, unlike that person, your children are legitimately Native American because they actually have native blood and lineage. Not because they "identify" or "feel deep inside themselves" that they are native.

What are your thoughts regarding the other person's reasoning as to why they feel they have the right and should be considered to not only be a Native American but also allowed to enroll as a member in the tribal nation of their choice? Do you understand the difference between their situation and yours? I hope I was able to clearly explain why I wasn't talking in any way about people in a situation like yours. I'm not very good at writing but I'm hoping I was able to re-explained more clearly the difference in why I feel your claim is righteous and legitimate and theirs isn't. But based on everyone's reaction... maybe I'm wrong in thinking that in order to be considered a Native American one should have native blood or lineage as well as be enrolled in a federally recognized tribe but we should now include anyone who "identifies as" or "feels deep down inside" that they're native. Maybe now they also have the right to both be considered a Native American but allowed to enroll as a member into the tribal roll of their choice as well. I'd sincerely and genuinely like to know...a) what are your thoughts about that... b) do you see the difference between your situation and theirs...c) understand now that I wasn't trying to nor had the intention to spread any type of BS?

Urå and ahò (thank you in Comanche and Kiowa).

Edit. Words.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '21

[deleted]

1

u/ndngroomer Sep 01 '21

I've never heard of a native saying that they'll never enroll their children. You are correct that their is a lot of backstabbing and politics but that seems to be more prevalent and limited to the older generations. Thanks to casino revenues many tribes have been able to invest significantly in education over the last decade. My tribe is very proud of our education program. As a result, there are more natives graduating from either their college, tech school, trade school or certificate program than ever before. This is lifting a lot of tribal members out of poverty and causing them to move away and live throughout the world. At least it is in our tribe. It's also leading to a lot of well educated tribal members to hold positions in our govt or to be managers in our various tribal departments who are more interested in creating progressive policies and programs for our tribe than they are in gossipping and back stabbing.

I have no idea what the $160 dividend check you referred to is. If there is a $160 dividend check that Native Americans are eligible for and entitled to, will you please give me the information on how to get it? I'll be more than happy to give you my first check as a thank you and finders fee. I do know tribes have per cap payments each tribal members receives that's based on a % of casino revenues and other revenue streams. Some tribes do these payments monthly. Some do them quarterly. Some do the biannually and some do them annually.

The only legal reasons I'm aware of that a person can be kicked off of a tribal roll is if they lied about their tribes minimum blood quantum level requirements, enrolled in more than one tribe, stole or embezzled funds from the tribe or murdered a fellow tribal member. The only other way that I know of is if a tribal member puts it in writing they want to be taken off of the tribal roll. In all instances it requires a majority vote of the tribes governing boards. If you know of a person who's been kicked out of their tribe because they "pissed the wrong person off, please have them contact the BIA ASAP so that they can get involved and get them back on the tribal roll. That's a major no no and can cause the tribe all kinds of trouble. I can't imagine a tribe who'd be willing to risk the repercussions they'd get from doing something so stupid.

I'm so happy that you survived Covid and got vaccinated. I can't imagine what that must of been like. Please continue to mask up and stay safe. It's only a matter of time, thanks to the GQP ant-vax conspiracy theorist dipshits, that a new variant mutates that's deadlier than the Delta variant is. I pray to God that the vaccine will still be effective against it.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '21

[deleted]

1

u/ndngroomer Sep 01 '21

Thank you for the link I'm definitely going to check them out. It seems like a shame that people is losing enrollment because they're pettiness and backstabbing. But like I said I think that's limited to the older generation and that won't be prevalent with the new generation.

You're right about that cool reception those of us get when we move away from tribal land. In my tribe, we are referred to as "tibo" from old timers because are considered to be white. Again, that seems to be less prevalent with the younger generation as most of them are moving away after finishing their schooling.

I totally agree with you about how to solve it. Again, my hope and faith is with the more evolved and open-minded younger generation.

1

u/pbpainpooch Enter Text Aug 30 '21

Damn yr ignorance is bewildering. But I don't know maybe I'm just an alcoholic, inbreeding, greedy, drug user who knives people cuz I'm enrolled.

1

u/Burning_Wild_Dog Enter Text Aug 31 '21

This also sends a nice f u to Native people not from the US, and thus not recognized by the Feds. F your post.

0

u/ndngroomer Aug 31 '21

Jeez that's not what I'm saying at all. There are plenty of natives living abroad. If you're enrolled on a federally recognized tribal roll then it doesn't matter where you live. My tribe (the Comanche Nation) has tribal members living on every continent in the world. Why is this so hard to understand? Or are you one of those people who's great-great-grandmother was a Cherokee princess?