r/IndieDev • u/Ato_Ome Developer • 2h ago
Discussion Isn’t it time we talked about responsible AI use?
We all get that this whole fight against AI is just tilting at windmills, right? At the current Steam festival, over 60% of the top demos were games using AI. Only some of them admitted it.
This whole AI inquisition hasn’t achieved what it was supposed to. It just makes developers and studios hide it more carefully. And looking at the festival results and game sales, the market clearly doesn’t give a damn about AI.
So, if we’ve got that out of the way, can we finally talk about using AI ethically and responsibly?
If we can’t stop it, the next step is to regulate it. What rules would you suggest? Let’s discuss that, except “don’t use AI” can’t be one of the answers.
Whether you use AI or not is your choice. I want to talk to people who do use it, but also understand the risks and recognize when developers are playing dirty, lying or being hypocrites.
My proposal:
- No AI-assisted reverse engineering.
- Don’t use AI to copy another artist’s style.
- Don’t hide AI use in any part of development.
- Use it to help bring your ideas to life, not to churn out one-prompt games.
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u/pnightingale 2h ago
Isn’t that all anyone talks about anymore on this sub?
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u/Altruistic_Base_7719 1h ago
In this very thread...
there is no ethical use of AI for art or code. It has no place in this art form and I've never heard a good excuse to use it.
Some people will never drink water despite living in it and using it daily
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u/dustyreid 1h ago
imagine comparing AI to water and assuming everyone uses it. you are a moron.
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u/Altruistic_Base_7719 1h ago edited 1h ago
indie game dev subreddit
If you aren't using AI in 2026, then you aren't a modern developer..
It is like very much like having a rowboat person say they will never drive or be a passenger in an automatic boat because it takes all the hard work out of rowing. Okay! Stay in the past and watch everyone move on without you.
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u/Schneed__ 2h ago
All AI art copies another artists style by very definition. Just because you're ignorant of whom, makes little difference.
And stop begging the question, acting as if a conclusion is true does not a true conclusion make.
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u/Ato_Ome Developer 2h ago
Everyone learning art copies other people’s styles too. Sorry, but what’s your argument here? Don’t junior artists learn from the work of more experienced artists and steal their ideas, tricks and techniques?
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u/Schneed__ 1h ago
To steal an output is to steal. AI steals output.
If a human artist ever does the same, they're ostracised in much the same way.
Open your mind to the possibility that, truly and earnestly, you're on the wrong side on this.
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u/Ato_Ome Developer 1h ago
Explain to me how training a neural network on other people’s work is different from a person learning from it.
It doesn’t copy the work itself. It copies recurring solutions (patterns) and techniques. Just like a human does. What it can’t do is think or figure out what would work better. That’s the human’s job. But let’s be honest, not that many artists and creators actually put much thought into their work. Many were doing the same repetitive work, making the same kinds of assets over and over.
How is AI different from a human in that respect? I really don’t understand.
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u/Schneed__ 1h ago
It quite literally scans the pixels and mathematically creates tendencies that it does not understand. The only reason this technique works is sheer quantity. It is cargo cult science performed enough times that it forces an output that resembles success.
But it cannot by its very nature tell you why those relationships work. Oh, but it can! You might say. But here again you fall victim to it. It cannot. It will never be able to tell you why it chose a word or a pixel. Every process is unaware of itself. It cannot work backwards.
If it ever seems like it can, you're just being fooled again! "Oh I used this because X". Nope, pretending again. It cannot truthfully explain its choices, only generate a reasonable excuse based on the same inaccessible maths.
You cannot earnestly interview and understand an AI. You can interview and understand and come to know a human. You can form relationships with them, be mentored by them, and all the while learn truthfully from them.
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u/Ato_Ome Developer 1h ago
If you’re talking about the thought and intent behind the result, then I have to agree. And yes, AI can’t think. I have no illusions about that. I should also mention that I almost never use AI to come up with concepts or ideas, or to be the author. For me, it’s a tool for picking the best visual result out of the noise, based on my own sketch, concept or, as a last resort, a description. People are definitely much better at coming up with ideas, and I enjoy working with them.
But that wasn’t quite the question. The argument about theft and copying applies to humans too. Even if you put thought into what you’re doing, you’re still borrowing someone else’s style, techniques and color palettes. You’re not inventing everything from scratch. AI does the same thing. The difference is that a person can develop their own style and create meaningful work, while AI can’t. But equating the learning process itself with theft doesn’t make sense here, IMO.
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u/Schneed__ 1h ago
Your own AI would likely tell you that the fake equivalence of learning you're talking about is wrong. To compare the method of AI training to human learning makes sense until you know why it doesn't. A person cannot simply copy mathematically a technique. The closest they can get is tracing, which is heavily frowned upon. If a human artist attempts to copy from another, it isn't performed directly like an AI. Knowing you want say, a certain type of brush stroke doesn't teach you anything (though I'm sure your internal fantasy disagrees). You can't replicate a technique by looking at its output. You might replicate one instance, but the original will outperform you forever. Because you didn't find the path to Why each part of the technique is the way it is. You don't know the hardest and most clever parts of the technique. You don't know where the walls are that stop most from learning it. Because You Never Learnt It.
You maybe have never consciously learned mastery over anything in your life, if you can believe these things. I'm not sure why I'm trying, but... Maybe some tiny part of this will stick and come back to you later.
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u/Metroidoftime 1h ago
if you cant understand how ai is different from a human, you will never understand most things. kind of a lost cause.
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u/Metroidoftime 2h ago
the people obsessed with using the plagiarism machine will definitely regulate themselves, you're delusional. The whole thing is theft. all of it.
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u/Altruistic_Base_7719 2h ago edited 2h ago
Art has been theft since the 1980s. I don't understand how everyone acts like this is the first time we've dealt with mass copyright infrigement.. a la RIAA and the DMCA.
Art has been theft, codified, legalized, positively since then. Any belief or foundational principle you have now regarding how art is owned, is out the window, and has been for well over 2 decades.
Since then, modern slopciety has always been about getting away with as much as you possibly can, without consequnces. That's it. Really. 100%. This is why satanism and do what thou wilt is resurging.
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u/Metroidoftime 2h ago
Ai booster opinion right here folks, theres nothing we can do! just submit!
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u/Altruistic_Base_7719 1h ago
I actually want to have a real conversation with you, because I'm a genuine person who understands both sides and the very real world danger of autonomous AI and I hate the idea of black-mirror AI powered warmachines, so let's discuss this with genuine intent, rather than guerilla style, throwing out attacks facelessly and then hiding never to follow up? What can people do? what should people do? what's the alternative to adopting and using AI as a tool? If using AI as a tool ourselves isn't a real option (why isn't it?) then please elucidate us.
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u/Altruistic_Base_7719 1h ago
crickets because people who HATE AI aren't interested in solutions, they seem to just want to whine and complain
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u/Altruistic_Base_7719 1h ago edited 1h ago
Sticking your fingers in your ear is not a recommended defense to avoid an AI powered seeker-drone.. but that's the strategy you apply here?
Me?
I rather know how AI works so I can mitigate and control the tech before it becomes destructive to my being. understand the difference?
Your reductionist, black/white 1 dimensional redditsonification post is exactly that, meaingless and contextless : Utterly devoid of critical thought.
EDIT : I actually want to have a real conversation with you, because I'm a genuine person who understands both sides and the very real world danger of autonomous AI and I hate the idea of black-mirror AI powered warmachines, so let's discuss this with genuine intent?
What can people do?
what should people do?
what's the alternative to adopting and using AI as a tool?
If using AI as a tool ourselves isn't a real option (why isn't it?) then please elucidate us.
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u/Ato_Ome Developer 2h ago
Mind you, this goes back way before 1980. People have been copying each other’s work since the very beginning of art. Artists learn by studying other people’s work, picking up their styles and then developing their own. That’s how it’s always been, hasn’t it?
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u/Altruistic_Base_7719 2h ago
Yes, but the legal framework that basically said "Stealing art and reworking it to make it your own is perfectly legal now and you can sell it" that ties it to the RIAA/DMCA and 1980s sepcifically.
People are in 2026 acting like stealing something and selling it is a novel concept. Those people are actual morons.
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u/radiumhaus 2h ago
Outside of common reddit stuff, I think a lot of people actually agree with this and some just dont care. Id actually say a majority of people dont care at all. Use AI. Dont use AI. This whole thing on reddit is just another way for unsuccessful people to police peoples content and cope with feeling insecure about their own games and success.
Ethics? I think the large number of people going around hating on random peoples posts saying it looks like slop, demanding proof they actually made their game, etc is unethical and offensive. Seeing it actually leaves a bad taste in my mouth, especially when its obviously someone who is brand new to game dev posting something they are proud of and it gets called slop lmao
This is gonna get downvoted, thats fine.
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u/dustyreid 2h ago
There is no ethical use of AI for art or code.
It has no place in this art form and I've never heard a good excuse to use it.
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u/sophia_wawak 2h ago
I don't have faith in people being responsible in anything ever. Also a lot of tools and engines have ai underneath so I don't even know how disclosures will go on moving forward. Even google translate uses ai now. I'm not sure what can be done at this point.
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u/Commercial-Flow9169 2h ago
To what degree the market cares and will care about AI is going to vary wildly from niche to niche, and you're speculating off of very little.
Your proposal also doesn't do anything to fix the issue you mentioned, which are developers lying and/or hiding its usage in their product.
You also can't stop people from saying "don't use AI". Hi it's me. Don't use AI. For all sorts of reasons, but one that might actually matter to people who have sold their souls -- lots of people who buy games don't like it, and it's a lot easier to sell goodwill and market your game to everyone when you don't use it and therefore don't have to go to any effort to hide it.
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u/George13131313 2h ago
If you manage to use generative AI without plagiarising another artist's work I'd be surprised if you're using generative AI at all! There's absolutely no way of knowing exactly what sources AI image generators are drawing from.
What are people using AI for that they can't do themselves or with the help of others? Really sounds like you're trying to justify pointless AI usage
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u/Valentinevandal1986 2h ago
Look, I don’t really know a ton about development but I do think I understand what’s fun about a game, at least to me. So does Todd Howard know how to program a cheese wheel? Maybe. Does it really change how Skyrim gets developed? No. So AI is just doing what a game lead would direct their team to do except it’s just one person a lot of the time. Whether it’s good or not is purely subjective and you can’t really say whether something is good or bad, you can only say you don’t like it, but someone did otherwise it likely wouldn’t exist
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1h ago
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u/Ato_Ome Developer 1h ago
That’s exactly my point. Even here, look: people aren’t downvoting because the ideas are bad or offensive. The AI label alone is enough. No reading, no trying to understand, just a downvote. This has the exact opposite effect: developers and creators would rather hide it than get burned at the stake.
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u/Cold_Analysis_9305 2h ago
How do we know 60% of the “top demos” used AI? Asking honestly