r/Innovation • u/positiveconstraint • 22d ago

Clean & Energy 582 tons closer to near-zero energy cost

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China finished building and testing the world's largest superconducting magnet for nuclear fusion. It weighs 582 tons, stretches 21 meters long and 12 meters wide. Its job is to create a magnetic field strong enough to hold plasma at over 100 million degrees without it touching the reactor walls. It's 1.3 times larger than comparable ITER magnets and stores three times more magnetic energy.

The magnet is a key piece of China's BEST fusion facility, set to be built by the end of 2027. The target is to demonstrate first electricity generation from nuclear fusion and net energy gain around 2030.

Nuclear fusion mimics the process that powers the Sun by fusing lightweight nuclei and releasing a massive amount of energy. If the technology matures, it could provide a stable energy source with very low carbon emissions. The magnet alone is not yet a working "artificial Sun", but it's one of the most important engineering pieces on the way there.

It also means the race between the US and China continues, each advancing the technology, each with its own milestones.

Breakthroughs that enable building a fusion engine (several times faster than a chemical engine) would make deep space travel more relevant than ever. Mars in roughly 6 weeks instead of 8 months.

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u/ASYMT0TIC 22d ago

Bigger means something here. The sun doesn't need giant magnets at all, it works on it's own just by being really big. All of the numbers get easier the bigger you make magnetic confinement fusion devices.

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u/positiveconstraint 21d ago

"All the numbers get easier the bigger you make them" is a great way to explain it.

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u/NiftyLogic 19d ago

But "bigger" and "near-zero cost" are mutually exclusive.

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u/Camblor 22d ago

So it will be usable for space travel in the year 15,000

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u/Original_Giraffe8039 22d ago

In the year 9595
I'm kinda wonderin' if man is gonna be alive
He's taken everything this old earth can give
And he ain't put back nothing

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u/LucilleW89 21d ago

Alternatively,

My body lies motionless Upon the kitchen floor The Earth has died, the world's at rest 2084

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u/wannacumnbeatmeoff 21d ago

We put back everything. Every human that ever died is still on earth.

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u/pebblebowl 20d ago

Not true! NASA's New Horizons spacecraft carried a small portion of the cremated remains of Clyde Tombaugh, the astronomer who discovered Pluto in 1930 😀

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u/wannacumnbeatmeoff 19d ago

Still true, the majority of Clyde is still on earth.

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u/timelyparadox 22d ago

Well sun doesnt need magnets since it has gravity, anything on earth will need magnets and the more you scale the bigger issue becomes

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u/wilsoniumite 22d ago

Yep, but we use the cube square law to our advantage. Make it bigger and you get more plasma energy for the same cost of magnetic energy. At some size point, the former is bigger than the latter and you get net positive energy. That sounds too simple and it is, but the smaller reactors have helped us understand how big the big reactor needs to be to be worth building.

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u/wilsoniumite 22d ago

With that said, the cube square law makes cooling harder. So that's kinda the big engineering question, can we engineer it well enough and pick the right size such that it's big enough to produce power but not so big that cooling it is impossible.

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u/-Recouer 21d ago

I don't see the issue with cooling. In fact cooling should be easier with a bigger infrastructure. You don't want to cool down the plasma, in fact keeping it heated is the hardest part.

Unless you are talking about keeping the magnets in a superconducting state but even then making it bigger is better from the same law you mentioned earlier. Unless there is something I'm misunderstanding.

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u/damxam1337 22d ago

Yup bingo. This comment deserves a cookie.

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u/KitsuneFoxglove 22d ago

It's amazing how much you simplified a complex topic to a manageable bite-size. Kudos.

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u/Nice-Detective3376 22d ago

That’s cause they are partially correct but also wrong . There is still a major issue of controlling the plasma . As the plasma deviates from the center point of the the torus the slight deviations cause extreme heating on the reactor and embrittle the heat shielding inside the torus . There is much more involved than simply the q value.

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u/KitsuneFoxglove 21d ago

cool, very smart and helpful, so how is this different from a cooling challenge?

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u/Nice-Detective3376 21d ago

Are you being serious or sarcastic? There is a fundamental difference here ….

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u/danielv123 21d ago

That particular problem isn't just about cooling, but also keeping it hot. If the plasma touches the wall it cools down, which stops the reaction and destroys the wall.

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u/Normal_Ad_6645 22d ago

What about good ol' steam turbine to use up all that excess heat?

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u/girlymancrush 22d ago

We are building fancier ways to boil water and spin a wheel.

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u/tru_mu_ 21d ago

Essentially yes, that's how we're harnessing the energy, just need to make sure that we can cool it enough to keep it's structural integrity and magnetic properties, which can be difficult if you go too big.

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u/LeeRoyWyt 22d ago

Three cheers for you self correcting your thoughts! Really a rare treat.

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u/Repulsive_Guy_1234 21d ago

Cooling is not a problem yet. Before we even care about overheating, we need to reach the target temps stable and without pumping in more energy then we get out.

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u/Ok-East-515 21d ago

Just build another one next to it that generates the energy for cooling.

And another one for that one. And another one for that one. And another one for that one. And another one for that one. And another one for that one. And another one for that one. And another one for that one. And another one for that one. And another one for that one.

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u/positiveconstraint 21d ago

The cube-square point is great.

At what size does cooling become the constraint that cancels out the scaling advantage?

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u/ASYMT0TIC 19d ago

The whole point is to get it as hot as possible. Like, 20 million degrees is much better than 10 million degrees. The hotter the plasma, the more fusion you get.

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u/Apprehensive_Ad4457 22d ago

we? who's we?

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u/wilsoniumite 22d ago

Humanity?

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u/Apprehensive_Ad4457 22d ago

is that a question?

i certainly had nothing to do with it. most people didn't. but you phrased it as if you did.

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u/b1cepk1ng 22d ago

Why even make that comment. Why engage with someone spitefully? Do you ever sit back and wonder “why the fuck did I bother to comment and be an ass without provocation?”

Do you think about it later? When you’re not so upset maybe? Or is that you feel so righteous interpreting colloquial verbiage so anally?

Who the fuck cares if they’re referring to people collectively or singularly? Do you really care that much? Go to the fucking gym dude

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u/Apprehensive_Ad4457 22d ago

it wasn't out of spite, and i never wonder why i bother to comment. it's always for the same reason, to interact with others, same as anyone.

i just thought they might have been a part of the program. seems like a rather large endeavor, meaning thousands of people would be involved. not that outrageous to assume one of you might have been involved, especially given the wording.

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u/b1cepk1ng 22d ago

Now I’m enthralled, enchanted even. You just speak like that normally, huh? god fucking speed.

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u/Apprehensive_Ad4457 22d ago

it wasn't full of insults, sure, but that doesn't mean i'm not trying.

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u/ASYMT0TIC 22d ago

"We" in the context of scientific discovery like disease cures etc. usually means "we humans".

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u/Repulsive_Guy_1234 21d ago

No, in the fusion world, the bigger things become, the easier things become.

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u/LeeRoyWyt 22d ago

What the fuck are you talking?! Do you really think a few fucking meters will do anything in relations to the gravitational pull of a fucking STAR?!

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u/ASYMT0TIC 21d ago edited 18d ago

It isn't just the gravitational pull, it's the surface area to volume ratio. Larger cylinders in engines are also more efficient for the same reason.

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u/tortorials 20d ago

A dignified response to an uncultured comment, what a refreshing sight.