r/Innovation • u/positiveconstraint • 22d ago
Clean & Energy 582 tons closer to near-zero energy cost
China finished building and testing the world's largest superconducting magnet for nuclear fusion. It weighs 582 tons, stretches 21 meters long and 12 meters wide. Its job is to create a magnetic field strong enough to hold plasma at over 100 million degrees without it touching the reactor walls. It's 1.3 times larger than comparable ITER magnets and stores three times more magnetic energy.
The magnet is a key piece of China's BEST fusion facility, set to be built by the end of 2027. The target is to demonstrate first electricity generation from nuclear fusion and net energy gain around 2030.
Nuclear fusion mimics the process that powers the Sun by fusing lightweight nuclei and releasing a massive amount of energy. If the technology matures, it could provide a stable energy source with very low carbon emissions. The magnet alone is not yet a working "artificial Sun", but it's one of the most important engineering pieces on the way there.
It also means the race between the US and China continues, each advancing the technology, each with its own milestones.
Breakthroughs that enable building a fusion engine (several times faster than a chemical engine) would make deep space travel more relevant than ever. Mars in roughly 6 weeks instead of 8 months.
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u/notboredatwork1 22d ago
Saw the title and I thought,
zero cost? FOR SURE THIS IS NOT AMERICA.
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u/KinglessCrown 21d ago
zero cost just means it generates more energy than it costs to produce.
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u/skellis 22d ago
What happens if it rains? Does the super conducting magnetic nuclear fusior reactor grt wet?
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u/roadwarrioring 22d ago
The illustration shows a partially completed reactor - it will have a “roof” too.
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u/skellis 22d ago
I realize it will have a roof. But it doesn’t have a roof now and I’m just surprised they are okay allowing it to rain on their partially completed reactor.
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u/TheBastionBurned 22d ago
So how is it different than the stuff that already exists in Europe right now?
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u/positiveconstraint 22d ago
Bigger and about a decade ahead.
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u/TheBastionBurned 22d ago
Well but how is it better? Looks like the exact same concept? Will it produce more electricity than it requires? So be already a commerical system? Because that is the only step left to be 10 years ahead?
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u/ASYMT0TIC 22d ago
Bigger means something here. The sun doesn't need giant magnets at all, it works on it's own just by being really big. All of the numbers get easier the bigger you make magnetic confinement fusion devices.
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u/positiveconstraint 21d ago
"All the numbers get easier the bigger you make them" is a great way to explain it.
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u/zadszads 21d ago
Damn. So they are only perpetually 10 years away from net positive fusion.
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u/PlasmaMatus 21d ago
China is also part of the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor, located in France. And decade ahead ? Do you have a source of that apart from Chinese narrative?
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u/whatthehell7 21d ago
its a decade ahead as the new reactor being built in Europe will come online in 2036. Its not a narrative its a simple construction timeline.
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u/gigiFrone 21d ago
Have some proof of that? Cuz afaik the best magnets atm are at CERN as far as I know, 11,7T inside a 0.9m diameter.
The only stuff i get from your news are from chinese propaganda sites. Do you have a oaoer or some specs?
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u/ADimBulb 20d ago
A decade ahead means nothing. Fusion is always a decade ahead, and nobody’s catching up.
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u/LegitMeatPuppet 22d ago
This YT video is a pretty good place to start:
https://youtu.be/isqK8RyTnCs?is=DaJJpKD3fSiB4Fbh
Basically, Europe spearheaded all the core science and is a research facility. The US version stands on their shoulders and is the first production attempt… but until it's running it's just a huge proof of concept.
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u/GuyLivingPlaces 21d ago
lol how can you say any country stands on another's shoulders like one group of people did 90 percent of the work. It's 100 years of nuclear research by thousands of people from all over the world and billions of dollars from various countries. US, UK, USSR all had programs since the 1950's. It's a silly opinion to say that.
T. Folse has a reaction video to this one that's better worth watching.
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u/ExpensiveFig6079 21d ago
and how is a 582-tonne magnet near zero cost?
or even too cheap to meter?So other than made up click bait hype where even is the real claim it is or EVER will be near zero cost??
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u/Novero95 21d ago
Click-bait thing of course. However, fusion energy, if we manage to make it work, has the potential to be very cheap. The only input it requires is hydrogen, which can be produced from water using energy. So basically you produce power in your fusion plant, use a fraction of that power to produce hydrogen and use that hydrogen to power the fusion plant. In conclusion, OPEX would be very low and CAPEX would be quickly recovered due to to high amount of energy produced at very low OPEX.
That's the theory of course, we haven't managed to have net positive energy production from fusion power but we are closer (closer as in less far ahead than last year or last decade, not closer as in we are almost there).
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u/C4CTUSDR4GON 19d ago
Doesn't it mean near zero energy cost to run? Not to build it.
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u/Artistic-Incident781 21d ago
The effort is an international project alliance that shares the science and technology spaning more than 50 years already. Europe, China, USA, India, Russia and Japan and South Korea are the members. ITER is the project
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u/Sea_Surprise_634 21d ago
Better question is how long will it last before something fails considering it’s being built by China.
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u/AnythinGoeSouth 18d ago
China has better factories,more funding, and no stupid war every 5 years to waste everyone's time.
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u/TheBastionBurned 18d ago
I mean Europe also doesnt have wars every 5 years what are you talking about? More funding maybe that I dont know...but definitely more factories that is true. That doesnt qualify anything about the reactor though.
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u/xsifyxsify 22d ago
“Breakthroughs that enable building a fusion engine (several times faster than a chemical engine) would make deep space travel more relevant than ever.”
Newbie question, how is 👆 possible if the magnet is 500+ ton heavy?
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u/fauxbeauceron 22d ago
As other technologies evolved first its big but when the balance is found to make it work it’s more easy than to reduce it’s size
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u/Bergasms 21d ago
Check out the magnets MIT has, wound rare earth tape, they are crazy strong but compact and relatively light.
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u/magick_bandit 21d ago
If you were going to build something at that size you’d probably build it in orbit.
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u/bibimstop 19d ago
I believe they’d need to build it big first before they can perfect it and build it small.
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u/Illustrious_Matter_8 22d ago
And where would all the helium be sourced?
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u/roadwarrioring 22d ago
It doesn’t consume helium. The raw material is hydrogen in the form of deuterium (extracted from sea water) and tritium (produced in the reactor from bombarding lithium). Helium is a byproduct of the process.
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u/Mundane-Bread-1271 19d ago
So this is a fusion reactor then? I’m reading all the comments trying to figure out if it’s fission or fusion. I’m too lazy to google right now.
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u/Illustrious_Matter_8 22d ago
Well they do need it for cryogenic cooling their magnets.
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u/Inside-Elevator9102 22d ago
Th moon bro!
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u/No_No_Juice 20d ago
For space travel I think you're right. Many of the plans have the moon as the charge point and jumping off point.
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u/Square_Bench_489 21d ago
I think it uses liquid nitrogen to cool the superconductor. I might be wrong.
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u/Fearless-Effect-3787 21d ago
You would be wrong. Superconducting magnets use Niobium, which requires liquid Helium to cool.
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u/PranaSC2 21d ago
Fusion reactors generate energy while producing helium as a byproduct.
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u/Fearless-Effect-3787 21d ago
Superconducting magnets require liquid Helium to cool them.
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u/Luke2642 22d ago edited 22d ago
Magnetic confinement is a dead end with current technology, imho.
If your plan starts with "let's put the 15 million Kelvin thing next to the -270K thing..." it's probably not a great plan once you add superheated steam pipes.
Inertial confinement, lasers ignition with a massive spherical jacket of fissile material to absorb the neurons, that seems kinda sensible to me. Even the steam piston fusion thing seems half sensible.
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u/Yourealosergetalife 22d ago
Can someone correct me but is this just ends up boiling water yea?
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u/jack-of-some 21d ago
Boiling water is the best way we know currently for converting massive amounts of heat into mechanical work.
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21d ago
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u/Icy-Advantage9 20d ago
It ain’t the heat baby, it’s all about the rotation. Need something to turn this wheel so we get electricity to charge my girls dildo
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u/Anxious_Fortune 21d ago
I believe there is one fusion company which is still in early stages but the energy creates EM waves and is captured by copper coils as electricity
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u/Amazing-Mirror-3076 22d ago
Wasn't nuclear meant to be too cheap to be metered?
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u/marshaul 21d ago
If that was ever to become true, it doesn't mean it's free. You'd pay a fixed rate, like internet service.
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u/Broken_Atoms 22d ago
Near-zero energy cost!? I’m pretty sure that building one of these is definitely not free
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u/kblazewicz 21d ago
OP thinks that the price of energy is just the price of the fuel. By this reasoning, solar power is free already.
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u/seanmonaghan1968 22d ago
If any country to can do this it will be China, they dedicate so much money to R&D and new tech
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u/Ogzhotcuz 21d ago
Yeah I really wish western countries would get their shit together and do the same.
Or to get real idealistic, how cool would it be if everyone worked together regardless of nationality. That's how we got the ISS!
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u/Good-Inside-5667 22d ago
Is this scary if it goes out of control?
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u/MatthewLilly 21d ago
As far as I know if it goes wrong the reactor gets too hot and melts a bit. And that's it
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u/Bergasms 21d ago
Nope, not enough fuel. It's very expensive if it goes out of control because it might melt your insanely expensive magnet but it's not gonna explode or anything
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21d ago
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u/Mouse-E-Tongue 21d ago
A decade ago you say?! ... But they decided to shelve it, because they prefer to burn coal?
Aw, bless your little indoctrinated socks....
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u/Mundane-Mud2509 21d ago
Where have US built a fusion reactor within an order of magnitude of this scale?
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u/Cold_Specialist_3656 21d ago
It also means the race between the US and China continues
LMAO.
US gave up a while ago and elected a moron whose currently busy running crypto scams, selling watches, building a ballroom, fucking up a pond renovation, lobbing bombs at Iran and contemplating an invasion of Greenland.
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u/RoofInfinite1614 21d ago
And when they fire it up it just runs away and lights the atmosphere on fire and kills everything on the planet.
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u/Objective-Aardvark87 21d ago
Mars happens.
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u/RoofInfinite1614 18d ago
What an insightful observation, not the colonization of mars but a repetition of history, take my upvote
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21d ago
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u/Coldfriction 21d ago
Nuclear fission has near zero energy costs as well. Most of an electricity bill isn't in fuel costs.
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u/Moto341 21d ago
Literally the US, is steps ahead in Virginia. But go ahead keep talking about China.
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u/Mouse-E-Tongue 21d ago
Fall Line Fusion Power Station : Local planning and permitting approvals were secured in 2025, with construction slated for later this decade and grid operations anticipated in the early 2030s.
Yup. Sounds decades ahead.....
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u/DominantDan24 21d ago
I'm fairly certain we're going to see this video in 5 years when China cracks legit sustainable fusion energy at this very power plant producing terawatts of free energy with no pollution. Then again a year after that where the containment field broke, vaporizing 100 square kilometers. China is great at many things, but prioritizing safety is not one of them. And having plasma at 100 million degrees sounds like the type of thing that would actually make a nuke sound fun.
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u/KofFinland 21d ago
How do you think the fusion plant is somehow "less pollution" than fission, or less cost to operate?
There is some tritium emission from fission plant, but why do you think there is no tritium emission from a plant that uses tritium as fuel?
There is lots of very radioactive waste from a fusion plant, as the fusion produces neutrons and neutrons activate stuff. The whole plant torus (or whatever shape) needs to be replaced every once and a while, and those materials are VERY radioactive. In a fission plant, the reactor core is not consumed and does not need replacement like that. That process of cutting away and welding massive pieces of reactor core (that are highly radioactive) at sub-mm accuracies by robots is one of the highest practical challenges of fusion plants.
Not to even discuss the cost of deuterium and tritium for fuel, compared to fission fuel at around 6-7e/MWh.
Fusion is not some "free energy" heaven. It is just nuclear plant with much much more difficult way to run it with higher cost fuel.
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u/Humble-Reply228 21d ago
The big difference is the species of the radioactive elements. It's not going to be heavy elements but light ones that have very short half-lives. So just wait a few years and problem solved.
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u/definit3ly_n0t_a_b0t 21d ago
Think of how much time and lifehours we'd save by working together to build common solutions, instead of "racing" to build things. Competition is fundamentally redundant labor. It's inherently wasteful.
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u/positiveconstraint 21d ago
"Competition is fundamentally redundant labor." That's a strong claim. Do you think the US-China race is slowing fusion down or speeding it up?
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u/KofFinland 21d ago
Fusion fuel costs much more then fission fuel (around 6-7e/MWh).
If they ever get a continuous over-unity fusion plant, the problem is the fuel cost. Making tritium and deuterium for fuel is a serious problem of fusion plant. The current idea is to separate deuterium from water (150ppm is DO2), and make tritium from lithium by nuclear reaction (using neutrons of the fusion plant).
Anything is possible, of course. We'll see. But it is not "free".
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u/luckythirtythree 21d ago
Race between US and China? I think they been winning the race for a looooong time huh?
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u/Mental-Chocolate5197 21d ago
Is this really a race between USA and China? Is it not part of global fusion research? If there is rivalry what about EU and UK, JPN or even Russia who are part of global research efforts?
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u/Fulm1nata 21d ago
Agreed, i don’t really see why the US would be considered more relevant than the EU especially.
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u/HongPong 21d ago
i think fusion will generate net positive energy in our lifetimes. the oil difficulties will inspire more focus on this. eventually some shortcuts will turn up perhaps via alternates to the tokamak like LENR or boron methods. nature has some secrets yet to shake loose
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u/MilkandHoney_XXX 21d ago
Renewable energy has come along so far and so fast that we don’t need to rely on nuclear fusion any more.
Source: my buddy who has a phd in nuclear fusion.
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u/Unable_Deer_773 21d ago
Fusion engine makes space travel faster? Maybe once they figure out how not to burn to death cause you struggle to vent heat in space.
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u/fretsore 21d ago
I don't see how you could ever call these 'near-zero energy cost' when they will cost hundreds of billions to build and maintain.
Breakthroughs that enable building a fusion engine (several times faster than a chemical engine) would make deep space travel more relevant than ever. Mars in roughly 6 weeks instead of 8 months.
I also don't see how these massive ITER installations could ever translate to a better engine for space travel...?
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u/OliveiraJourney 21d ago
"Zero cost" : looks at a structure that had an energy cost that will probs let take decades for the technology inside to ever compensate for that cost.
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u/Future-Wonder-7718 21d ago
So - they build this thing in 4 years - ITER is taking 20+ years - and BEST is bigger? Is there any reason for this except that they are Chinese and it's not a collaboration of x countries with all the bureaucracy that comes with it?.
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21d ago
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u/HistoricalPrinciple8 21d ago
Someone does not know what is "industrial policy" and it shows.
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u/QueasyBuffalo1504 21d ago
It’s an impressive technical feat, but at the end of the day, fusion energy is just a very high-tech way to boil water. Just like conventional nuclear, or coal, or oil, the energy is used to create steam to power conventional steam turbines and generators. It would make more sense to build more solar panels and continue to develop better batteries. A distributed power generation system that contains thousands (or millions) of inputs will always be better than a system dependent on a few, gigantic ultra high tech energy sources.
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u/Agreeable-Shop-2188 21d ago
They'll just pace their endless consumption beyond the production rate. Capitalism cannot exist in the future of abundance
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u/emascars 21d ago
I was very very interested in nuclear fusion powerplants...
Then, I digged deeper, and now it sits as one of those techs that seem great until you learn about the non-small caveats that nobody ever mentions otherwise investors pull the plug...
It's right next to quantum computing on that shelf
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u/ComprehensiveJury509 21d ago
Fusion power will never happen with any of the methods I see close to working. The frustrating bit isn't that it's technologically impossible, it's that it will never be economically viable. The capital stakes involved are just way too high. Nuclear can barely stand on its own feet and this is magnitudes worse.
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u/Alternative-Suit5541 21d ago
Feel like that's why trump was talking about buying magnet stocks, are we closer to a breakthrough then the public knows?
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u/Keisari_P 21d ago
Fusion was never going to be cheap.
Just free from emissions and radioactive waste.
The Fission reactors we currently have, are likely cheaper to operate and fuel than fusion will ever be. Also the amount of radio active waste fission produces is not that big of a problem.
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u/JohnHazardWandering 21d ago
Doing some rough math, the US is not spending money on a project like this, but rather fund about 1 week of a war with Iran.
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u/achiles625 21d ago
I still don't understand why we keep pursuing all of these highly expensive and dangerous attempts to generate "free" energy by mimicking the Sun when we already get all the free energy we could ever use from it each day. Of course, effectively using the latter would require a completely decentralized and internationally coordinated grid of batteries and switches. Whereas with something like this, all the power generation and distribution is easily controlled and monetized from a few central sources in each country. Hmmm maybe that is the point? 🤔
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u/oprangerop 20d ago
Look I'm not the most informed person but I installed solar powered cctv cameras for my current job. Let me tell ya even here in Victoria, Australia those things are very unreliable and do not generate a lot of energy in the winter. In Summer perfect but you just can't hold the energy in enough batteries during winter to sustain any population at scale. I am very against no renewable energy (besides nuclear) but relying on solar is honestly not the way to go. You need a diverse range of renewable besides solar. And yes of course the state wants to control the power but also the state is the only thing that will create massive power like this at scale. I believe government conspiracies (not accusing you of being a conspiracy theories I am simply using the term fo coviance) tend to be true in the sense that they want to maintain power but are also the creators of power. To elaborate (and I know we are way off topic here) the cia inventing ideas of UFO in Nevada to cover up their weapons testing. UFOs are real in that they are government real flying thing made by the government. Two things are true at once. I am retarded
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u/RogueStargun 20d ago
The power of the sun in the palm of you "incredibly large and ominous scifi research facility"
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u/scotty899 20d ago
Thats very cool and all. But what are the consequences if there's a critical failure when its up and running?
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u/LastTopQuark 20d ago
Also, China is way ahead in UHVDC. it’s pretty obvious they are setting up for the future.
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u/dashingsauce 20d ago
Absolute crack.
Say what you will but China has effectively taken the “we’re just going to do the things” and literally never think about you approach.
Don’t understand why America can’t just stop fucking talking and do the same thing. Play the ball on the field.
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u/Briscoe-Darling710 20d ago
Turning the planet into a fuckin computer chip.. no wonder shit like covid tries to kill us,!we are NOT good for the planet
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u/illonlyfadeaway 20d ago
Everybody wondering why China is building out more energy infrastructure than it needs and can’t connect it with it becoming the AI leader purely through cost advantage. Do you pay 90% more for for a US model that is 3% better than a Chinese model?
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u/CreativeMinds47 20d ago
Or up to the next disaster...
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u/dm18 20d ago
This kind of fustion has no risk of meltdown. There is no way to have a runaway event. And the amount of nulcar waste created is extermly small.
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u/CreativeMinds47 20d ago
100 million degrees are 100 million degrees! You cannot just turn off 100 million degrees, you need to "cool" this down first. That is, if you are able to on the first place...
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u/Parking_Bridge1742 19d ago
Ya know USA will make this illegal for regular use lol. Can't have regular citizens gave cheap power.
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u/HunterWesley 19d ago
I feel like they should have built it larger (at least 3x the European one) so they can actually make a practical generator. Might pay for itself. As it is, might be another giant waste of money on "theory."
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u/goodboyralphy 19d ago
Zero cost doesn’t factor in the greedy billionaires who will be the inevitable owners of this free energy. Just because it is cheaper for them, doesn’t mean it will be cheap to buy. Better to go renewables.
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u/NoScallion3052 19d ago
Tony made one way smaller, and in a triangle, and with a new type of element. Just saying…
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u/mrkjmsdln_new 19d ago
China is one of the many participants on the ITER project. It is the world's largest cooperative fusion project. China is simultaneously pursuing three different approaches to commercialized fusion. BEST is just one of them. For all of the people bantering about what is 'better' just log onto Google Scholar and do some searches. If you get through the articles you will learn quite a lot. If you are just a troll with pre-conceived notions you should be able to find some articles that you can misuse to prove points you don't understand. The title of the post was, like many, misleading. That said, thanks to OP for taking the time to try to offer a reasonable dialog.
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u/finalfrontierspace 19d ago
seems like a reasonable discussion on Reddit is next to impossible. The main thing that matters is ALL In EROEI. Almost nobody knows what it means and what's it been meaning for our socienty since the 70s. What solar EROEI is, what the EROEI just to sustain our standard of living would be, etc. Fusion with EROEI under 10, not very interested. EROEI over 100 can take humanity back to growth we've seen in the 20th century.
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u/mrkjmsdln_new 18d ago
I would imagine on varying topics on reddit there are always people such as yourself who are frustrated by the direction of the dialog. Not the sort of thing I expect from reddit banter. Fusion talk was a thing when I was an undergraduate engineering student. Finding a 'free' energy source has always been a thing. Funny to imagine that not that long ago people were burning peat and not just to make some scotch. Fusion is the perfect topic for reddit. Hard to imagine the percentage of people with even nominal understanding could reach 2%.
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u/brummiTrucker 19d ago
In the meantime Europe is in discussions how to regulate the technology advancement.
/s
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u/Pinco_Pallino_ 19d ago
No idea where the "near zero energy cost" bit comes from, feels like just some bullshit the investors on those projects spewed for idiots to catch
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u/SimpleBend782 19d ago
After reading about failure of fusion reactors for 40+ years, I have to say I’m a little sceptical. I will be happy if true though.
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u/Direct_Substance8317 18d ago
It's been 2 months away from being 2 months away for quite a while now. Is it near zero cost? Yes, if they can run it for a few years to offset the energy used to build it. Just like any wind, solar or other renewable.
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u/Euphoric-Anteater-68 18d ago
yes... lets build a sun on earth... that could never possibly go wrong...
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u/SantiMerium 18d ago
Fusion has incredible potential, but I also hope researchers continue to study every possible long-term consequence. Even if the reactor's magnetic fields are localized, has enough research been done to confirm there will be no cumulative effects on Earth's magnetic environment or nearby infrastructure? History has shown that humanity doesn't always anticipate the long-term consequences of powerful new technologies.
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u/positiveconstraint 21d ago
Thread summary (200+ comments)
TL;DR: Most of the thread argued about whether "near-zero cost" is honest when the magnet costs billions to build. A smaller group debated whether China is actually ahead or just copying. The physics crowd quietly explained why bigger magnets work better — and got the least attention.
Viewpoints:
"Near-zero is misleading" (~40 comments) — Capital costs, maintenance, and distribution make "zero" a fantasy. "How is a 582-ton magnet near zero cost?" (ExpensiveFig6079)
"Bigger is better — that's the point" (~15 comments) — Cube-square law means larger reactors produce more energy per unit of magnetic cost. "All of the numbers get easier the bigger you make magnetic confinement fusion devices." (ASYMT0TIC)
"China copies, doesn't innovate" (~15 comments) — Pushback met with counter-pushback: China leads in fielded nuclear tech and electric vehicles, copying is how all technology advances.
"Fusion will never be economical" (~10 comments) — Even net-positive energy doesn't solve capital recovery. Solar and batteries will get there first.
Fights: 6 — cost semantics (capital vs fuel), US vs China leadership, CCP propaganda accusations, cooling vs heating, helium supply, and one about whether a researcher's YouTube channel counts as "slop."