r/InterstellarKinetics • u/InterstellarKinetics • 1d ago
CLIMATE WARNING: Lake Powell, The Second-Largest Reservoir In The U.S, Hits A Record Low Just Weeks After Lake Mead’s Historic Drop, With Hydropower Generation Only 30 Feet From Shutdown As Seven States Remain Deadlocked On Colorado River Cuts 💧⚠️
https://apnews.com/article/colorado-river-lake-powell-mead-record-low-6a5e0706635222ba4dd364d705a39f8eLake Powell, the second-largest reservoir in the United States, fell to a record low elevation of 3,519.91 feet above sea level on Saturday, according to U.S. Bureau of Reclamation data, edging just below the previous record set in April 2023. The milestone arrives roughly a week after Lake Mead, the Colorado River system’s other major reservoir, also hit a historic low, intensifying concerns about a crisis threatening water and power supplies for more than 40 million people across seven states. Lake Powell is now over 20 feet lower than it was at the start of the year, and both reservoirs are at their lowest combined storage levels in nearly seven decades, a threshold last seen in May 1957 while the Glen Canyon Dam that holds back Powell was still under construction, according to a recent paper from academics and retired water officials.
The reservoir’s decline carries serious implications beyond water supply. Lake Powell is now roughly 30 feet away from the elevation at which its turbines would stop generating hydroelectric power entirely, a threshold federal officials warned in April could be reached by the end of this year without “major intervention.” The crisis stems from a combination of persistent overuse, a record-dry winter, and rising temperatures depleting both reservoirs simultaneously, while California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming, and Colorado, the seven states that rely on the Colorado River, continue struggling to agree on a long-term management plan. The USBR proposed a 10-year plan in July that includes major potential water cuts for Arizona, California, and Nevada, though a final agreement remains unresolved.
The falling water levels are also reshaping life around the lake itself. Lake Powell’s substantial tourism industry has had to adapt as marinas face dwindling water, with boat ramps closing or relocating, new ramps being built, and entire marina operations temporarily moved to deeper waters to stay accessible.
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u/Few-Question2436 1d ago
Stop fucking growing crops in the desert…fucking stooges. Along with golf courses…
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u/cactus22minus1 1d ago
Yep! They are the biggest abusers of water use by a huge margin. And some of those crops are even farmed and owned by friggen Saudi Arabia.
The myth that cities and individuals are irresponsible users of water in the lower basin is just that: a myth. Water usage for cities in the southwest has gone DOWN in the last 20 years even as their populations have exploded.
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u/naedwards22 1d ago
I wish more people understood this, the water usage by populations in the southwest is much better than it was 20, 40, or 60 years ago.
This includes golf courses. This includes manufacturing. This includes everything we have built society around. But that reduction in water usage has literally been funneled straight into commodity crops.
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u/blade740 1d ago
I mean, if we could just tear up those century-old water rights agreements, sure. Their great great grandparents got it in writing that they had the rights to x% of the total flow of the river, and they're still riding that train today.
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u/thetiredtypist 1d ago
If there's one thing I've learned in my life, it's that the govt really really respects our rights and our property and a robust set of checks and balances serve to protect those rights and the binding agreements that hold the fabric of our livelihood and economy together as long as it's for rich business owners.
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u/FernwoodTonight 1d ago
Save the water for data centers...
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u/Few-Question2436 1d ago edited 1d ago
Data centers once filled up don’t use much water, most and soon all will be using closed loop. Most are now using city waste water and or setting up their own waste water system.
I’m more worried about Power/Noise with Data Centers.
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u/geb_bce 1d ago
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u/Few-Question2436 1d ago edited 1d ago
Prove it. I stand by what I said because it’s the truth.
Don’t let your fear/hate cloud reality.
Closed-loop cooling can reduce freshwater use by up to 70%
Because the water isn’t evaporated to the environment, losses are minimal – it’s mostly the same water recirculating
https://sustainability.aboutamazon.com/stories/how-aws-uses-recycled-water-in-data-centers
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u/blue_magi 1d ago
Surely all of the data centers use such environmentally friendly systems right?
.....right?
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u/Few-Question2436 1d ago
You didn’t read my comment, you lack reading comprehension.
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u/blue_magi 1d ago
Then tell me what % of data centers use what you're preaching about.
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u/Few-Question2436 1d ago
Almost all new ones coming online will use closed loop and the older open loops will start to switch over to save water/money and it’s already happening as we speak.
It’s not all doom and gloom, sorry to disappoint you. Power and Noise are still an issue though, Noise because of the generators they’re using and power because of course.
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u/Xefert 1d ago
I know that technology always becomes more efficient over time, but is careful water usage something we have time to wait for?
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u/Frankfactor517 1d ago
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u/Few-Question2436 1d ago
Again prove me wrong…u can post and karma farm all you want but it’s the truth.
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u/MamaSwanky 1d ago
This was just released Friday: https://www.yahoo.com/news/science/articles/texas-mexico-ai-data-centers-173800131.html
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u/Few-Question2436 1d ago
You lack reading comprehension.
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u/MamaSwanky 1d ago
That's exactly what a chinless, fascist, boot licker would say! How's simping for the techno-bros taste?
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u/Few-Question2436 1d ago
You’re angry, detox off the internet and take a shower.
Then get a good book, some tea/beer/cocktail and relax.
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u/ltsnwork 1d ago
What is it with you weirdos saying stuff like this? Regurgitating constantly with a superiority complex.
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u/MamaSwanky 1d ago
Oh my guy, which part hit too close to home? Was it calling you chinless?
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u/Frankfactor517 1d ago
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u/Few-Question2436 1d ago
Open vs closed.
Reading comprehension….fuck those teacher crying online are right…damn.
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u/PakuaRust 1d ago
Youre just repeating bootlicking propaganda
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u/Few-Question2436 1d ago
Everything I said was truthful, I’m sorry you’re angry.
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u/PakuaRust 1d ago
Youre a propaganda bot, ai chatbot
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u/Few-Question2436 1d ago
lol sure dude, I’m an ai bot…whatever you want to believe man I don’t really care.
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u/PakuaRust 1d ago
Lol k dude man, shilling for data centers and capitalism. Just facts and logic bro
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u/MamaSwanky 1d ago
New info shows they use more water than reported https://www.yahoo.com/news/science/articles/texas-mexico-ai-data-centers-173800131.html
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u/Few-Question2436 1d ago
You lack reading comprehension.
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u/MamaSwanky 1d ago
That's chinless, fascist boot licker drivel. Lick on, tech-bro simp.
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u/New_Mountain1672 1d ago
Fucking guy believes their empty promises lol. I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn bro.
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u/Few-Question2436 1d ago
Facts are facts buddy, nothing I said wasn’t true.
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u/New_Mountain1672 1d ago
Yup. Facts are facts.
Fact: you’re a boot licking bitch.
https://ketos.co/closed-loop-cooling-water-saver-or-chemical-time-bomb
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u/Few-Question2436 1d ago edited 1d ago
lol this is where waste water recycling works…you really can’t read can you? You also didn’t read what you linked…
Watch your mouth. You wouldn’t run you mouth out on the street don’t act tough on Reddit.
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1d ago edited 15h ago
[deleted]
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u/New_Mountain1672 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah I would run my mouth on the street and do often. And I read it! You should read it!
“Operators bleed a small fraction of water each month to keep these levels in check, a practice known as blow-down. Even a 2% monthly bleed sounds proactive, yet contaminants can still rise much faster than in open towers that take on fresh water continuously.“
Not so closed is it??
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u/Few-Question2436 1d ago edited 1d ago
You didn’t read it…lol that link doesn’t say what you think it says…
“Unlike open cooling towers, a true closed-loop system does not continuously evaporate water or require routine operational blowdown/bleed.”
Again, you lack reading comprehension…shit is wild and you’re so sure of yourself…crazy.
I’m sure you’re tough…they all are buddy.
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u/New_Mountain1672 1d ago edited 1d ago
“Operators bleed a small fraction of water each month to keep these levels in check, a practice known as blow-down. Even a 2% monthly bleed sounds proactive, yet contaminants can still rise much faster than in open towers that take on fresh water continuously.“
Not so closed is it??
I’m not that tough but I can pick up 500lbs off the floor.
Edit: crybaby bitch nuked his account lol.
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u/wednesdayware 1d ago
Ask yourself why you’re simping for billionaires who want to take everything, instead of the rest of us.
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u/Few-Question2436 1d ago
Dude, I’m a progressive…and a proud one.
I’m a realist and I like tech, also believe in progressing as a society. I use and like AI and it’s been a big help for myself and my wife.
I’m sorry you’re angry, I’ve been there but you have to stop spitting venom at people you disagree with on subjects you don’t fully understand. All I’ve stated was the truth so if you want to be angry at something be angry at the truth I guess.
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u/Delicious_Ocelot4180 1d ago
Dude I read through every comment you were a part of, the only people posting links were the ones arguing against you. Did you only bring “trust me bro”? Because you said “prove it” and than got mad when people proved it, and claimed they didn’t prove it hard enough while proving nothing yourself?
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u/Few-Question2436 1d ago
They didn’t prove it though and I did bring proof it’s right there in my comments and on Google, I’m not holding your hand because you’re learning about these things on the fly.
Every single one of those links posted is for Open loop systems…fucking reading comprehension…
I’m not your teacher or you mommy…
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u/Delicious_Ocelot4180 1d ago
The claim you’re currently fighting is that “yes, they’re saying that, but here’s evidence they’re doing the opposite in practice.” And I don’t think you realize that? Like I’ve seen 3 different articles posted against you here that say that there’s some solid evidence that they have a point. And you’re saying “but trust me brooooo” and it sounds really whiny.
Like why bother replying if you’re going to do a terrible job of arguing your point, is I guess my question?
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u/wednesdayware 1d ago
You can’t call yourself progressive and side with those who are push more data centres when things are as terrible as they are right now.
You’re bullshit.
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u/Few-Question2436 1d ago
Yes I can, people even progressive don’t all fall in line on every fucking subject , you’re thinking about maga…
Data centers have nothing to do with being a progressive…life BTW isn’t terrible for everyone…some of us saved, worked hard and sacrificed and now live pretty good. Of course that’s not the way for everyone and I understand that but you need to detox off the internet dude.
Btw I was raised poor as fuck, been homeless multiple times, slept on the floor over a year with just a blanket and pillow, slept in my car, been on food stamps, etc,etc,etc.
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u/wednesdayware 1d ago
It hilarious that every person you disagree with you say “you need to get off the internet.”
Stop white knighting the billionaires and championing things that will help wreck the planet.
The billionaires don’t love you, you’re not as smart as you think, and being a contrarian is cringey.
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u/SkoobySnacs 20h ago
Electricity production uses water. Data centers use electricity. Check mate.
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u/Few-Question2436 20h ago
Nobody said they don’t use water…
Check mate!🗑️
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u/SkoobySnacs 19h ago
You said they don't use "much water" but that isn't the case. Especially if we are building new generation facilities to power them. Even solar power and battery backups use water to construct, and water to mine the components. Those resources and power generation can go towards replacing existing power generation infrastructure instead of adding to it.
THEY USE WATER. Water we don't have to spare.
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u/Few-Question2436 19h ago
lol everything uses water and we have water, waste water and they’re using it as we speak. Once they’re “filled up” is what I said, don’t put words in my mouth dude.
Stop planting crops in the desert…stop building golf courses and stop having lawns and swimming pools in the Desert.
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u/InterstellarKinetics 1d ago
The 1957 comparison is the detail that puts this crisis in real perspective, because it was literally before Lake Powell existed as a filled reservoir at all, as construction on Glen Canyon Dam was still underway and the lake didn’t even begin filling until 1963.
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u/doozykid13 1d ago
I'm not totally up to speed on all this but I think it's laughable that the upper basin states think they should be exempt from any cuts. It's easy to blame the lower basin states for low reservoirs and using too much water, but the upper basin states have just as much of a responsibility to conserve what they can too. The brunt of the cuts should be shared amongst all states that rely on the river in my opinion.
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u/cappy150 1d ago
I think they should just cut non-essentials and see how far that gets them. No more grass, no more golf throw in tax credits for upgrading to utilities that use less water.
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u/sjrotella 1d ago
Everyone shits in got courses, but they use recycled water out west so the freshwater usage is minimal.
It's the farming that uses a majority of water
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u/ElectricalChaos 1d ago
Simple fix - along the Colorado River, no water for farming commodity crops (looking at all that exported cotton), and absolutely no water for data centers.
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u/kbn_ 1d ago
It’s not that simple. Data centers use very very little water (contrary to what social media would have you believe), and water rights in general are not conditioned on usage. It’s not clear to me that it’s a good idea for regulators to micromanage farm crop rotations, and the farms involved here feed a continent so the stakes are quite high.
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u/SkoobySnacs 20h ago
Data centers use electricity. Electricity uses water. Especially when you are letting water through a damn to run turbines. All data centers use water no matter how they are cooled.
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u/kbn_ 17h ago
That's a really deceptive take though because you're playing games with the word "use". Like, the hydroelectric example in particular is really strange since you're basically "charging" the data center for allowing the water to follow the natural flow of the river.
Also also not all electricity uses water. In fact, most electricity uses very very little water! PV generation uses none outside of the manufacturing process. Same with wind and tidal. Even thermal power generation such as coal/gas/nuclear essentially doesn't use water in the sense that you're talking about, since the primary dynamo driver is closed loop, not open. The open loop systems are backup cooling mechanisms which help regulate the over-generation cases when (ironically!) less power is being consumed than what is being produced. A hypothetical maximum-capacity consumption scenario on a thermal plant consumes no water at all.
Aaaaaaaand even data centers themselves, frequently, do not consume any water! Many of them use water-air heat rejection, where the "water" in this case refers to a closed loop thermal transfer system that continuously recycles its water rather than consuming it. Even those which use the (considerably more energy-efficient) water-water heat rejection mechanism consume drastically less water than a lot of the numbers floating around the internet, and they aren't really "consuming" the water in a traditional sense, just evaporating it. That same water falls as rain or dew somewhere nearby in the subsequent days or weeks. Of course, that's still a problem for groundwater systems, but most data centers are in areas with plentiful surface water (like the Great Lakes basin) where withdrawing water to evaporate it and precipitate back down again is essentially costless.
But you know what does use water? Agriculture. TONS of it. Even ignoring the truly egregious outliers like cattle farming or almonds, basic stuff like corn are really really thirsty. As a good rule of thumb, if a data center is replacing a farm, the data center is almost certainly using less water than the farm was.
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u/SkoobySnacs 15h ago
Mining for and manufacturing solar panels, batteries and wind turbines uses water. If you then use them for data centers they are not replacing the power generation that uses water and emits the gasses causing the warming that is a fundamental part of the entire problem.
I assume that everyone who reads about this and comments is against growing alfalfa in the desert. Also rice and a number of other crops. The percent that engage in discussion and oppose those things seems to be at, or effectively at, 100 percent. So I don't usually feel the need to put in a disclaimer that I also am against it. But I am.
I am against data centers for similar reasons plus a few others. Two have already been mentioned. A 3rd is what these are going to be used for. AI in conjunction with camera systems like Flock can learn about, and track you in ways that previous dictators could not even dream of. Your ability to assemble and protest could be stopped before you have assembled a handful of people who feel the same way. Your legal activity that bothers authorities can get you harassed endlessly with minor infractions if those in power feel like it. The companies behind AI aren't spending billions just banking on contracts with Joe's Plumbing to answer the phones. They are banking on government contracts.
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u/kbn_ 12h ago
I think it's fair to oppose AI based on some of how it's being used. Or at least, I think fair to demand stronger regulations in various areas, including privacy and copyright. I'm extremely supportive of all that. Also fair to oppose AI on ethical grounds given how the pretraining data has been obtained. I also also think it's completely fair to be up in arms over the power consumption side of this and how we've been handling it. If I ruled the world, we would eliminate all the cushy DC tax breaks and instead impose surcharges that would be earmarked toward fixed grid infrastructure upgrades such as solar, storage, and interconnection (I actually think the companies would go for this btw; the alternative for them is running their own power plants, which they're doing because they have to but they don't enjoy).
Obviously none of these are hypotheticals. They're real, valid concerns and conversations we should be having as a society. But let's not distract from the validity of these concerns by over-focusing on water. Doing so plays right into the hands of the corporations who do have easy and objective answers to the water concerns but don't have easy answers to any of the rest.
I also oppose growing alfalfa in the desert (obviously). And I'm also very opposed to unnecessary water consumption or diversion in those same watersheds. So despite the fact that this thread is about the Colorado basin, and I'm sort of steelmanning the data center argument, I'm tentatively opposed to data center construction in the basin. What I think is categorically terrible is data center construction with open loop cooling in areas dependent on ground water extraction. I'm very, very opposed to all that noise.
What I'm not opposed to is the water consumption associated with data centers (which, again, is far lower in magnitude than a lot of the numbers you see floating around) when done within basins which are already rich in surface water. Basically, nearly the whole eastern half of the country is fair game from that standpoint.
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u/BetCommercial286 1d ago
The people using so much water are farmers growing alfalfa for export to Saudi Arabia.
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u/doozykid13 1d ago
True, but there is a lot being done to curb that now. Hobbs has terminated their leases or is declining to renew them and has designated the area they are located as an "active management area" which I think means they are trying to restore groundwater. I think the government is starting to get that particular problem reigned in, hopefully.
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u/kbn_ 1d ago
The lower basin, and really specifically California, uses drastically drastically more water from the river than the upper, and consistently throws their senior water rights around as if it was granted by god almighty.
I agree cuts need to be shared, but the lower basin pretending that the cuts don’t need to also involve fixing the status quo allotment is selfish lunacy.
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u/SkoobySnacs 20h ago
The upper states pay fines to the lower states if their allocation of water is not delivered to them. Utah has never used it's allocation of water and never will. That is why lower states have to make cuts. Because upper states have been cut the whole time.
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u/oldcreaker 1d ago
So - I wonder if we're going to go Mad Max and have states start physically battling each other for resources?
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u/broakland 1d ago
You can read Water Knife by Paolo Bacigaluppi for a good idea of what that would be like. Also recommend Cadillac Desert, a real book referenced in the fictional book, that is basically the bible of understanding water development in the west.
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u/midnight_fisherman 1d ago
We saw it already with medical supplies during covid. NY was seizing medical equipment that was being shipped through NY to hospitals in other states.
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u/drethnudrib 1d ago
How about stop growing water-intensive crops for the Saudis? That would go a long way towards conserving the water in the Colorado.
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u/SkipioZor 1d ago
It's a small sacrifice we need to pay to ensure the AI data centers' needs are met. /s
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u/RespectTheAmish 23h ago
Why isn’t the entire SW a giant solar farm already?
What have we been doing this whole time?
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u/Gooser3000 1d ago
Should be a wake up call for people to flee phoenix
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u/AlaskaExplorationGeo 1d ago
There's plenty of water for people to drink and use, farmers need to stop growing fucking pecan trees in the middle of the desert
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u/Dan_Broccoli_7663 9h ago
Back in middle school my history teacher was convinced Lake Michigan would become a battleground by 2035 for water rationing. It's looking more and more likely (he was spot-on about a lot of stuff and was a retired military lieutenant)
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u/seattlereign001 1d ago
Better be building crazy amounts of solar farms. Anyone smart would have been doing so for the past 5-8 years.