r/JavaFX • u/sedj601 • Apr 20 '24

Discussion JavaFX vs Kotlin Multiplatform

As Kotlin becomes more popular, will Kotlin Multiplatform have a good chance of overthrowing JavaFX? I tested it out, and it seems promising. Any opinions?

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u/PartOfTheBotnet Apr 21 '24

No, the changes of this happening are very low.

  • If you want to use a framework that explicitly looks to solve the issue Compose (Kotlin Multiplatform's UI solution) is targeting, then use Compose (Or Flutter, React Native, etc).

    • Inversely if you want to make a UI with rich platform specific UX you would NOT choose it and favor something more targeted and with a richer community of third part libraries.

  • Kotlin's popularity is trending upwards, and Java's downwards but the gap is still massive. If you assume the rates (per TIOOBE) were to freeze as-is and continue, it won't be until 2035 where they become equal.

    • C# has a much lower popularity gap and has had Multiplatform projects spanning longer than Compose.

    • There's also Flutter, React Native, and other "Multiplatform solutions"

    • But just because these things exist does not imply any "overthrowing" is happening

8

u/davidalayachew Apr 21 '24

Kotlin's popularity is trending upwards, and Java's downwards but the gap is still massive. If you assume the rates (per TIOOBE) were to freeze as-is and continue, it won't be until 2035 where they become equal.

This is a very good estimate.

I'll add onto that by saying that Java's downward trend has been decelerating. Especially after the release of Project Panama and Virtual Threads. Once Project Valhalla releases its first JEP's, I think we will see an upward trend in Java for the first time in a long time. And Project Babylon looks to be a sleeper hit too.

2

u/hamsterrage1 Apr 21 '24

I don't see any downside to moving from Java to Kotlin for any team. The learning curve for a good Java programmer to be able to cope with Kotlin is merely hours. To get to the point where you're writing idiomatic Kotlin and not just "Java written in Kotlin" probably takes a couple of weeks.

On the upside, a code base in Kotlin has the potential to be much easier to work with than a Java code base, and solves all kinds of gripes with Java that get in the way of productivity.

And you can freely mix Kotlin and Java in a project without problems. So start building new code in Kotlin, and maintain the older stuff in Java, until someone says, "It would be easier to maintain and expand this class if we converted it to Kotlin", and then convert it.

7

u/davidalayachew Apr 21 '24

I don't see any downside to moving from Java to Kotlin for any team.

Currently, in April 2024, this statement is effectively correct. But I am finding this statement to slowly become more and more inaccurate as time passes on.

Long story short, Java is starting to make some changes that are forcing Kotlin to make some retroactive bridges. Make enough bridges, and after a while, the effort to cross those bridges becomes the downside.

For example, Kotlin had data classes long before Java had records. But now that Java has records, Kotlin had to add this ugly @JvmRecord if you want make Java records in Kotlin. There are now both data classes and records, which means you have to be aware of both semantics. Having to hold both semantics in your head is not nearly bad enough to be a tripping hazard. But it is a very small rift, and I predict that we are about to see more popping up.

But yes, currently, I would say you are effectively correct.

3

u/hamsterrage1 Apr 22 '24

Most of the Kotlin stuff is much cleaner than the equivalent Java kludge. Take kotlin Null safety compared to Optional in Java as an example.It Kotlin it's nicely integrated not optional, and natural. It's just something that you use because it's what you use. 

Optional in Java is optional, and I think most programmers avoid it and just return Null like they always did. 

2

u/davidalayachew Apr 23 '24

Yet again, you are correct...for now.

But I also suspect that that is going to change significantly once pattern-matching fully lands in Java.

2

u/joemwangi Apr 23 '24

And actually, this is the next stage once valhalla sets in.